ICC Cricket World Cup 2019

Di Maria's angel said:
I'm not. We just went out in the bullshit...iest way after having dominated the tournament. Fair dues to New Zealand but everything was in their favour when we batted on day 2 of a ONE day international.
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But knock out games are not new. We were all aware that you can play how much good you want in group stages but if you don't perform in Semis and FInals you won't win the trophy. Blaming the format is the last thing we should be doing.

The truth is like @Gandalf Greyhame in his post attributed, winning the group stages gave us the wrong belief that we have a super squad who can win the tournament. Again losing today hurts, especially losing to NZ but our success for this WC was totally dependent on our top 3 and Bumrah/spinner and hope somehow Dhoni becomes old Dhoni. Looking realistically most of our players had an underwhelming WC.

Kohli never dominated like he was expected
Our spinners were underwhelming
Rahul was hit and miss
Dhoni looked past his prime
Jadhav, Karthik, Shankar all disappointed
Dhawan got injured
Pant was ok-ok
Bhuvi was decent but nothing special.

In fact bar Rohit and Bumrah none of them had a special tournament. Pandya, SHami and Jadeja were good but apart from that rest all under performed. No way we would have won this WC like that.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
He takes the games deep, I get it. But he's doing it slower than ever and now he can't even finish the match after inviting all that pressure onto himself.
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This is nothing new. He did it in IPL and it was a known part of his game even before WC began. He still is the best WK we have as selectors didn't really trust Pant enough for ODIs. Everyone acknowledges that Dhoni's batting has fallen steeply off his peak, but the weirdly the expectation that he'll do what he did at his peak remains. We screwed up #4 and without that the middle order is exposed way too early in the match and can't handle it. Dhoni did what we all expected he'd do. I'd even boost Jadeja to #5 as he seems to be the only lower order batsman who can build an innings too. Pant and Pandya have a lot way to develop there.
 
I see fans of Pakistan vs India in this thread. I see fans of England vs India in this thread.

Damn pity we (SA) have become so shit. But happy that we’re not being called chokers (can’t really choke if you’re actually shit, can you?) after this tournament. Must be a first :lol:
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
This is nothing new. He did it in IPL and it was a known part of his game even before WC began. He still is the best WK we have as selectors didn't really trust Pant enough for ODIs. Everyone acknowledges that Dhoni's batting has fallen steeply off his peak, but the weirdly the expectation that he'll do what he did at his peak remains. We screwed up #4 and without that the middle order is exposed way too early in the match and can't handle it. Dhoni did what we all expected he'd do. I'd even boost Jadeja to #5 as he seems to be the only lower order batsman who can build an innings too. Pant and Pandya have a lot way to develop there.
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Hasn't exactly lived up to his own standards this WC behind the stumps as well. Also that's the very reason we need to drop him - Pant needs time to develop behind the stumps, too. Dhoni is just delaying the process.
 
Patrick08 said:
Yeah blame everything on a 38 year old legend of the game on the brink of retirement for not getting his striker rate up when the management can't find a proper no4 and can't get their tactics right in big crunch moments.

You had Pandya to hit big shots in the end, why waste him telling him to stay in there?
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I don't blame Dhoni for the loss, but you dont get special points for being a 38 year old legend on the brink of retirement. He was selected in the 11 and is the same as everyone.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Hasn't exactly lived up to his own standards this WC behind the stumps as well. Also that's the very reason we need to drop him - Pant needs time to develop behind the stumps, too. Dhoni is just delaying the process.
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He still was very good in IPL to have been selected. Post WC, I agree. It's time for him to step down and retire from all formats of the game.
 
Ish said:
I see fans of Pakistan vs India in this thread. I see fans of England vs India in this thread.

Damn pity we (SA) have become so shit. But happy that we’re not being called chokers (can’t really choke if you’re actually shit, can you?) after this tournament. Must be a first :lol:
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CT, WC semis - we might have taken that tag off you for now. Hope we return it soon or pass it along.
 
RedTiger said:
Sammsky told me to post something on his behalf
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Spoony said:
Do it. And what's stopping him?
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Haven't posted in ages and ages. But after such an occasion, time I did, at least for one post.

Before I say what I want to say, I'll say that I like India cricket team, am a big fan of Dhoni and Bumrah as cricketers, and wanted them in final, as England vs India is the dream final and my sister who lives 5 mins walk from Lords had an amazing finals day party planned. Not to be. Plus only very boring fans left in the cup so the finals day atmosphere in St Johns Wood will be very boring.

But as we've seen a glimpse of from this thread for a lot of this tournament, (I've been reading every once in a while), many India fans are quite intolerable. India fans have a superiority complex re nation and cricket, esp with other sub continant countries and England, and love to dine out on that. They call that banter. But when the time comes for them to have to take it back, they lose their shit with disgraceful responses. What should be banter becomes deeply personal, hurtful and vicious. Internet is full of it, and I've seen loads of Indians totally losing any semblance of self respect today.

Anyways, what I wanted to say at India fans was simply this: World class @ choking :lol::lol::lol:
 
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AshRK said:
But knock out games are not new. We were all aware that you can play how much good you want in group stages but if you don't perform in Semis and FInals you won't win the trophy. Blaming the format is the last thing we should be doing.

The truth is like @Gandalf Greyhame in his post attributed, winning the group stages gave us the wrong belief that we have a super squad who can win the tournament. Again losing today hurts, especially losing to NZ but our success for this WC was totally dependent on our top 3 and Bumrah/spinner and hope somehow Dhoni becomes old Dhoni. Looking realistically most of our players had an underwhelming WC.

Kohli never dominated like he was expected
Our spinners were underwhelming
Rahul was hit and miss
Dhoni looked past his prime
Jadhav, Karthik, Shankar all disappointed
Dhawan got injured
Pant was ok-ok
Bhuvi was decent but nothing special.

In fact bar Rohit and Bumrah none of them had a special tournament. Pandya, SHami and Jadeja were good but apart from that rest all under performed. No way we would have won this WC like that.
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In fairness, this wasn't a tournament for spinner. Bhuvi was fine bar one game (?) and we expected our middle order to struggle.

Losing Dhawan was huge, for sure. Rahul would have been fine at number 4 and I think our batting would have been fine.

Really sucks losing today and I do feel like, had we batted yesterday, we would have chased it down...
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Hasn't exactly lived up to his own standards this WC behind the stumps as well. Also that's the very reason we need to drop him - Pant needs time to develop behind the stumps, too. Dhoni is just delaying the process.
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Pant should have always been in this squad and this is why I blame the selection committee and Kohli. They did not know what they were doing. First dropped Pant for DK and then played Pant ahead of DK. Heck by the time we reached semis we played 4 wicket keepers. It has been one big mess. I still recall our 2011 squad building was the best. We slowly integrated Kohli and Sachin was not playing every damn series. We should have done similar with Pant and even the likes of Shaw and Gill could have been given more chances. The fact that selectors thought both Pant and DHoni cannot play together was a joke. Poor planning lead us to this.
 
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AshRK said:
Unless he himself decides to step down I cannot see anyone causing a revolt and ask for him to step down. He has too much power, even more than Ganguly (never thought I would see someone like that). Kohli is a good test captain but in limited overs he has always failed be it for India or RCB. I feel Rohit would be a better leader, maybe not aggressive as kohli but he is tactically far superior than Kohli.
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The way he's managed the team in the last few years almost makes me a little cynical. It's almost like he's never let anyone but his own favourites settle in the team, which has consolidated his own influence and power.

I just realised Rohits 32. I reckon he'll be the next one to cost India at a World Cup - he'll be 36 at the next one. Technically he's never been a convincing batsman so he might have a rapid fall from grace like Sehwag, if his hand eye coordination deteriorates a little. But like I said, because of the way the teams been managed in the last few years there are no other options.

Kohli's lucky that he came through under Dhoni and Kirsten's leadership. If he had broke through under his own leadership in the last few years, it would've been a struggle for him.
 
MJJ said:
It's okay mate, getting destroyed by two world class bowling attacks two tournaments in a row takes it toll.
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Absolutely. :lol:

That's why we are friends. After all, who'd know our pain more than our brothers with such rich experience.

;)
 
AshRK said:
Pant should have always been in this squad and this is why I blame the selection committee and Kohli. There did not know what they were dropping. First dropped Pant for DK and then played Pant ahead of DK. Heck by the time we reached semis we played 4 wicket keepers. It has been one big mess. I still recall our 2011 squad building was the best. We slowly integrated Kohli and Sachin was not playing every damn series. We should have done similar with Pant and even the likes of Shaw and Gill could have been given more chances. The fact that selectors thought both Pant and DHoni cannot play together was a joke. Poor planning lead us to this.
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Yep. The Indian team planning has been quite similar to United's recruitment policy. All over the place based on the player of the day, with no long term vision as to what the squad should look like.
 
sammsky1 said:
Haven't posted in ages and ages. But after such an occasion, time I did, at least for one post.

Before I say what I want to say, I'll say that I like India cricket team, am a big fan of Dhoni and Bumrah as cricketers, and wanted them in final, as England vs India is the dream final and my sister who lives 5 mins walk from Lords had planned an amazing finals day party planned. Not to be. Plus only very boring fans left in the cup so the finals day party will be very boring.

But as we've seen a glimpse of from this thread for a lot of this tournament, (I've been reading every once in a while), many India fans are quite intolerable. India fans have a superiority complex re nation and cricket, esp with other sub continant countries and England, and love to dine out on that. They call that banter. But when the time comes for them to have to take it back, they lose their shit with disgraceful responses. What should be banter becomes deeply personal, hurtful and vicious. Internet is full of it, and I've seen loads of Indians totally losing any semblance of self respect today.

Anyways, what I wanted to say at India fans was simply this: World class @ chocking :lol::lol::lol:
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You are talking absolute non sense. Most Indian fans are upset with their team only today. Even during the group stages hardly anyone claimed that we will win the cup. If anything English fans started talking big against after couple of wins.
We did expect to best NZ though and definitely choked in semis.
 
sammsky1 said:
Haven't posted in ages and ages. But after such an occasion, time I did, at least for one post.
....
Anyways, what I wanted to say at India fans was simply this: World class @ chocking :lol::lol::lol:
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Welcome back! Oh how I've missed your nuggets. Of wisdom.

What makes it fascinating is that you don't even have a horse in this fight or ribbing or whatever you call it. At least @MJJ does

For you to be so obsessed with us rabid Indians is not good for your health

Also at the risk of sounding pedantic, it's choking.

As in "sam is choking his chicken ;) in delight today"" Vs the Internet is chock full of weirdos"
 
crappycraperson said:
It's time for next generation to get a chance. Shaw and Gill better be in the next ODI squad.
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Question marks over Kohli as captain imo.

Shame Rohit's 32 - otherwise he'd have been the right choice.

We're bullied into captaincy-by-Kohli because of how good a player he is.
 
Skills said:
The way he's managed the team in the last few years almost makes me a little cynical. It's almost like he's never let anyone but his own favourites settle in the team, which has consolidated his own influence and power.

I just realised Rohits 32. I reckon he'll be the next one to cost India at a World Cup - he'll be 36 at the next one. Technically he's never been a convincing batsman so he might have a rapid fall from grace like Sehwag, if his hand eye coordination deteriorates a little. But like I said, because of the way the teams been managed in the last few years there are no other options.

Kohli's lucky that he came through under Dhoni and Kirsten's leadership. If he had broke through under his own leadership in the last few years, it would've been a struggle for him.
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Jeez didn't know Rohit was 32. This could have been his final chance to win the WC. Sad.

Now that makes things even more tricky. I cannot see anyone bar Rohit leading this side.But knowing indian selectors, they will create even more mess by bringing back Rahane and Ashwin rather than looking for future. Speaking of Ashwin I feel he would have been a better choice than Jadhav or Shankar. Another player who has been a victim of Shastri era.
 
digitalnirvana said:
Welcome back! Oh how I've missed your nuggets. Of wisdom.

What makes it fascinating is that you don't even have a horse in this fight or ribbing or whatever you call it. At least @MJJ does

For you to be so obsessed with us rabid Indians is not good for your health

Also at the risk of sounding pedantic, it's choking.

As in "sam is choking his chicken ;) in delight today"" Vs the Internet is chock full of weirdos"
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Spelling typos all you got as come back? Thats desperate man. Anyways, thanks and I'll amend
 
sammsky1 said:
Haven't posted in ages and ages. But after such an occasion, time I did, at least for one post.

Before I say what I want to say, I'll say that I like India cricket team, am a big fan of Dhoni and Bumrah as cricketers, and wanted them in final, as England vs India is the dream final and my sister who lives 5 mins walk from Lords had planned an amazing finals day party planned. Not to be. Plus only very boring fans left in the cup so the finals day party will be very boring.

But as we've seen a glimpse of from this thread for a lot of this tournament, (I've been reading every once in a while), many India fans are quite intolerable. India fans have a superiority complex re nation and cricket, esp with other sub continant countries and England, and love to dine out on that. They call that banter. But when the time comes for them to have to take it back, they lose their shit with disgraceful responses. What should be banter becomes deeply personal, hurtful and vicious. Internet is full of it, and I've seen loads of Indians totally losing any semblance of self respect today.

Anyways, what I wanted to say at India fans was simply this: World class @ chocking :lol::lol::lol:
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I wish you step on a lego bare foot.
 
crappycraperson said:
It's time for next generation to get a chance. Shaw and Gill better be in the next ODI squad.
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We have loads of talent and absolute buffoons managing their development. The array of young batting talent waiting in the shadows with the likes of Gill, Pant, Iyer, Shaw, Agarwal, Rana, Samson if developed properly will be world beater. Hope tracer bullet fecks off at the speed of tracer bullet. He's worse than having that position vacant.
 
The decision to play DK has definitely confused me, someone will have to explain that one when Jadhav offers another bowling option and has played for the last 2 years or so.

Who are the upcoming Indian all rounders out of interest? People have mentioned Samson but hasn’t he already played before or am I getting confused? Think India could do with another all rounder with some batting skills.
 
sammsky1 said:
Haven't posted in ages and ages. But after such an occasion, time I did, at least for one post.

Before I say what I want to say, I'll say that I like India cricket team, am a big fan of Dhoni and Bumrah as cricketers, and wanted them in final, as England vs India is the dream final and my sister who lives 5 mins walk from Lords had planned an amazing finals day party planned. Not to be. Plus only very boring fans left in the cup so the finals day party will be very boring.

But as we've seen a glimpse of from this thread for a lot of this tournament, (I've been reading every once in a while), many India fans are quite intolerable. India fans have a superiority complex re nation and cricket, esp with other sub continant countries and England, and love to dine out on that. They call that banter. But when the time comes for them to have to take it back, they lose their shit with disgraceful responses. What should be banter becomes deeply personal, hurtful and vicious. Internet is full of it, and I've seen loads of Indians totally losing any semblance of self respect today.

Anyways, what I wanted to say at India fans was simply this: World class @ choking :lol::lol::lol:
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The irony, after posting such crap he is saying Indians are losing it. :lol:
 
Skills said:
The way he's managed the team in the last few years almost makes me a little cynical. It's almost like he's never let anyone but his own favourites settle in the team, which has consolidated his own influence and power.

I just realised Rohits 32. I reckon he'll be the next one to cost India at a World Cup - he'll be 36 at the next one. Technically he's never been a convincing batsman so he might have a rapid fall from grace like Sehwag, if his hand eye coordination deteriorates a little. But like I said, because of the way the teams been managed in the last few years there are no other options.

Kohli's lucky that he came through under Dhoni and Kirsten's leadership. If he had broke through under his own leadership in the last few years, it would've been a struggle for him.
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Fair summary. Where I find Kohli really lacks is taking people along, versus running ahead and expecting others to follow. Rohit does that well - the lesser known players at MI shine. Our middle order suffered from this for 4 years because the expectation is to be world class.. we could've done with some workman-like 50s today.
 
TheGame said:
The decision to play DK has definitely confused me, someone will have to explain that one when Jadhav offers another bowling option and has played for the last 2 years or so.

Who are the upcoming Indian all rounders out of interest? People have mentioned Samson but hasn’t he already played before or am I getting confused? Think India could do with another all rounder with some batting skills.
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In fact I think we need proper batting allrounder. I miss the time when we had Sachin, Sehwag and Yuvraj who all could bowl. None of our current batsmen can bowl which is unacceptable for a country with so much talent. Also, Samson is a wicket keeper batsmen and the last thing we need is another keeper.
 
zing said:
Question marks over Kohli as captain imo.

Shame Rohit's 32 - otherwise he'd have been the right choice.

We're bullied into captaincy-by-Kohli because of how good a player he is.
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There are two issues here. First we have been spoilt by having a leader of the status of M.S. in the past and anyone compared to him will be a massive downgrade. But secondly, there's no alternative. Who all are the senior names who can take over? Rohit is the closest call and he's soon over the hill. Iyer? He's done well with DC and looks like a very calm and sensible head who can possibly be nurtured.

All academic as there's no chance whatsoever Kohli will ever accept playing under these younger guys as captain. This is why we struck absolute gold when our seniors like Sachin identified Dhoni as captain despite him being an infant in his cricketing career. Instead of giving it to the bigger names at the time like Yuvi or Zak, we gave it to M.S. and he transformed our mentality exponentially. Can't see a change like that happening now, will have to live with Kohli and his haphazard approach.
 
Very bemused India fans criticising Dhoni for his approach.

As was evident when it happened, he knew India batting would totally collapse the moment he got out. And he also knew he had to take it as deep as possible, so pressure would go back onto NZ bowlers, and also when he could be in a position to take risks, as I said take risks earlier and get out and anyways India batting folds. Lastly, perhaps he was just doing the very best he could, given he's now aged 38! He cant just 'turn it on' when fans demand.

The match losing mistake was not his approach or innings but not sending him in at no 5. Would love to know who took that final call and why.

Guy is a legend and his performance today was amazing. Felt a massive lump in my throat when he got out and made that long lonely walk back to pavilion.
 
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AshRK said:
In fact I think we need proper batting allrounder. I miss the time when we had Sachin, Sehwag and Yuvraj who all could bowl. None of our current batsmen can bowl which is unacceptable for a country with so much talent. Also, Samson is a wicket keeper batsmen and the last thing we need is another keeper.
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I may be getting confused with Sanju Samson then. Not up to speed on Indian cricket knowledge.
 
Moby said:
There are two issues here. First we have been spoilt by having a leader of the status of M.S. in the past and anyone compared to him will be a massive downgrade. But secondly, there's no alternative. Who all are the senior names who can take over? Rohit is the closest call and he's soon over the hill. Iyer? He's done well with DC and looks like a very calm and sensible head who can possibly be nurtured.

All academic as there's no chance whatsoever Kohli will ever accept playing under these younger guys as captain. This is why we struck absolute gold when our seniors like Sachin identified Dhoni as captain despite him being an infant in his cricketing career. Instead of giving it to the bigger names at the time like Yuvi or Zak, we gave it to M.S. and he transformed our mentality exponentially. Can't see a change like that happening now, will have to live with Kohli and his haphazard approach.
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Being a DC fan and having closely observed his leadership quality, I feel he is not a bad shout but the issue is our selectors hardly groomed him. He should have been our number 4 for this WC, not Rayudu or Shankar or Jadhav. Instead he was left in cold for some reason. Every time I think even more I cannot imagine how bad our team management have done. I hope all the attention are not solely on Dhoni (he must retire) but also a serious look is given to our selectors and Kohli the captain.
 
Ronaldo's ego said:
Sanju Samson? Forget keeping, he’s a very good batsman. Good enough to get in just as a batsman and let Pant be keeper
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I don't disagree. ANother batsmen like Iyer who has been left to rot in cold. The amount of chances Rayudu or Jadhav or Karthik got, should have been given to these players. We can all criticise Dhoni and Ganguly but one thing they were really good was in spotting and grooming young players. Kohli so far has failed to do that. Even for RCB he has failed to show trust on youngsters like Sarfaraz, Washington Sundar etc.
 
Might be scant consolation right now, but India are stacked with talent for 2023. They should be brave and ask old guys like Dhawan, Sharma and Dhoni to retire.

Build a new proper fully functional ODI batting like up like England around KL Rahul and Kohli and give the likes of Shaw, Gill, Pant, Iyer, Samson and others the next 3 years to rotate and fill in the gaps.

Bowling wise they are sorted, given 2023 will be in India itself. Already look favourites !
 
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