Ibrahimovic and Berbatov

Berbatov isn't better technically than Ibrahimovic, probably first touch is better but then again who's first touch is better than Berbatov's? Ibrahimovic is probably the best technical striker in the world and this season has probably been the second best player in the world behind Messi.

Ibrahimovic is a better player than Berbatov but he also plays for a weaker team and thus, it's likely Berbatov would do something because of the quality around him (Rooney, Ronaldo) than Ibrahmiovic who has lesser players.
 
AttackingFlair said:
Berbatov isn't better technically than Ibrahimovic, probably first touch is better but then again who's first touch is better than Berbatov's? Ibrahimovic is probably the best technical striker in the world and this season has probably been the second best player in the world behind Messi.

Ibrahimovic is a better player than Berbatov but he also plays for a weaker team and thus, it's likely Berbatov would do something because of the quality around him (Rooney, Ronaldo) than Ibrahmiovic who has lesser players.
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Berbatov is definetely better technically. No doubt.

I am even tempted to say better than Scholes...
 
Ibrahimovic is a more rounded player technically. Can score with all parts of either foot. Berbatov's right foot is better than either of Ibrahimovic's though and has his own style using it almost all the time, except when dribbling.
 
Ekeke said:
Ibrahimovic is a more rounded player technically. Can score with all parts of either foot. Berbatov's right foot is better than either of Ibrahimovic's though and has his own style using it almost all the time, except when dribbling.
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Berbatovs technique is incredible though. The outside of the foot passes, at ridiculous angles. His control, awesome.

Ibrahimovic technically is excellent, he has more skill I think, the flicks and the silky touches are more frequent with him.

Technically, Berbatov is on another level. Hes too good.
 
Ekeke said:
Its a feature of Ibrahimovic's game to be able to do this with either foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-22cSRjizg

Makes him more dangerous when shooting outside the box than Berbatov, as you can show Berbatov onto his weaker foot and he'll pass it rather than going for goal.

If we arent going to compare and contrast their games then whats the point of this thread? Are we picking who has the better name?
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It isn't though, his ability to shoot from range is a feature of his game, although a small one at that, his ability to do it with either foot isn't.

Berbatov's just not good at shooting from range, regardless of his so called one footedness. Show him onto his weaker foot and he'll mos likely just hit it withot the outside of his foot, anywhere on the pitch.

We are, but not irrelevant points like this one.
 
Brwned said:
It isn't though, his ability to shoot from range is a feature of his game, although a small one at that, his ability to do it with either foot isn't.

Berbatov's just not good at shooting from range, regardless of his so called one footedness. Show him onto his weaker foot and he'll mos likely just hit it withot the outside of his foot, anywhere on the pitch.

We are, but not irrelevant points like this one.
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How is it not a feature of his game when he's proven he can do it, in a game? :wenger: Ibrahimovic is capable of scoring from 20 yards or so with either foot, you need to close him down on either foot. You sheppard Berbatov towards his left and he wont hit it, he'll pass it on the left flank or try to turn back onto his right which you're already covering.

There are only certain angles you can hit with the outside of the right foot rather than with your left foot. Take the goal in the example, its possible he could have hit that with the outside of his right foot because it was so far out that the bend could take it towards goal. However he'd never have got the same power on it.

Berbatov is good at shooting from range he just doesnt do it very often (lack of confidence in that area?). He hit the bar against us with a long range effort which was nigh perfect.
 
Ekeke said:
How is it not a feature of his game when he's proven he can do it, in a game? :wenger: Ibrahimovic is capable of scoring from 20 yards or so with either foot, you need to close him down on either foot. You sheppard Berbatov towards his left and he wont hit it, he'll pass it on the left flank or try to turn back onto his right which you're already covering.

There are only certain angles you can hit with the outside of the right foot rather than with your left foot. Take the goal in the example, its possible he could have hit that with the outside of his right foot because it was so far out that the bend could take it towards goal. However he'd never have got the same power on it.

Berbatov is good at shooting from range he just doesnt do it very often (lack of confidence in that area?). He hit the bar against us with a long range effort which was nigh perfect.
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Because why not just say he's better at shooting from range?

The fact that he is better with his left foot makes so little difference in my view it seems pointless to bring it up. Again, it'd be like me saying Berbatov's better at volleys than Ibrahimovic, which he is, but does that matter?

Agree to disagree there because I'm not going for that type of pedantic argument all night.

I personally think he's pretty average at it, never gets enough power in his shots the vast majority of the time, from range or inside the box.
 
Brwned said:
Because why not just say he's better at shooting from range?

The fact that he is better with his left foot makes so little difference in my view it seems pointless to bring it up. Again, it'd be like me saying Berbatov's better at volleys than Ibrahimovic, which he is, but does that matter?

Agree to disagree there because I'm not going for that type of pedantic argument all night.

I personally think he's pretty average at it, never gets enough power in his shots the vast majority of the time, from range or inside the box.
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I disagree. He blasted several of his goals for Spurs last season from inside the box. The shot against us was an almost perfect mix of power and curl that left Van Der Sar watching it sail by, so close to an excellent goal. He just almost always elects to pass the ball for us. I've no doubt he's capable of scoring from outside the box now and then whether he places his shots or blasts them.

Ibrahimovic is better at shooting from range, yes - but the fact he can do it with both feet shows he's also more of a two footed player as Berbatov tends to only use his left foot when he's dribbling or controlling the ball when its close to him. For any shot or through-pass or to bring the ball under control with his first touch he will almost always use his right foot. It makes him slightly more predictable and slightly less dangerous around the box when you know he's only going to use one foot to play the ball, instead of shifting the ball quickly to his other foot and blasting the ball before you can close his angle down.
 
Ekeke said:
I disagree. He blasted several of his goals for Spurs last season from inside the box. The shot against us was an almost perfect mix of power and curl that left Van Der Sar watching it sail by, so close to an excellent goal. He just almost always elects to pass the ball for us. I've no doubt he's capable of scoring from outside the box now and then whether he places his shots or blasts them.

Ibrahimovic is better at shooting from range, yes - but the fact he can do it with both feet shows he's also more of a two footed player as Berbatov tends to only use his left foot when he's dribbling or controlling the ball when its close to him. For any shot or through-pass or to bring the ball under control with his first touch he will almost always use his right foot. It makes him slightly more predictable and slightly less dangerous around the box when you know he's only going to use one foot to play the ball, instead of shifting the ball quickly to his other foot and blasting the ball before you can close his angle down.
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Rare occasion that is, very, very few if his goals come from powerful shots outside the box. Tevez and Rooney are both twice as good in that area.

You're really going to do this? :boring:

The fact that Berbatov is so adept at using the inside or outside of his foot then brings back that unpredictability, the thing is the idea that it makes him more predictable is based on absolute conjecture - both of our arguments are going to be - which is exactly why I said lets not do this.
 
Nah, as I said there are only certain angles where you can get a shot off with the outside of your right boot. You have a much bigger cove you could hit a ball from if you're using both feet. Might not sound like much, but it is when put into practice.

If you know a player is all right foot, you stand a bit to the left of him when you position yourself to block his shot. This opens a small gap to his left. But knowing that he can use the outside of his right boot well, you leave that gap rather small. If he wants to shoot then he'll have to turn back towards his right and hope you dont tackle him or call your bluff and try to bend it from the left, around your position. If you've done your job correctly you've left that angle impossible and the effort wont even hit the target.

Now if you do this with a player who can hit the ball hard and on target with both feet you'd again show him onto his weaker foot. But you've a bigger cove to position yourself against than with a player who will only use the right foot as obviously, the two feet go towards and strike the ball from different positions. There's a yard or two to the left where you could only hit a ball (towards the front of you, at goal) with your left foot and not with the outside of the right.

If the player switches the ball towards the space you left to get him on his weaker foot he then has a much bigger target to aim at. Either you make a dive to block the shot, in which case he can turn onto his right foot again and there's nothing you can do, or you hope that by trying to block the ball standing and therefore getting there slower, puts the player off his shot enough so that he'll miss the target or not hit it cleanly. A player like Zlatan will hit that shot with his weaker foot and score more often than most would with their weaker foot. So all in all its harder to deal with a player who is very good with both feet.

As I said, if you show him to his left he might just pass the ball onto the flank instead of trying to engineer his shot. In which case you've done your job and its over to the fullback to do his.
 
Ekeke said:
Nah, as I said there are only certain angles where you can get a shot off with the outside of your right boot. You have a much bigger cove you could hit a ball from if you're using both feet. Might not sound like much, but it is when put into practice.

If you know a player is all right foot, you stand a bit to the left of him when you position yourself to block his shot. This opens a small gap to his left. But knowing that he can use the outside of his right boot well, you leave that gap rather small. If he wants to shoot then he'll have to turn back towards his right and hope you dont tackle him or call your bluff and try to bend it from the left, around your position. If you've done your job correctly you've left that angle impossible and the effort wont even hit the target.

Now if you do this with a player who can hit the ball hard and on target with both feet you'd again show him onto his weaker foot. But you've a bigger cove to position yourself against than with a player who will only use the right foot as obviously, the two feet go towards and strike the ball from different positions. There's a yard or two to the left where you could only hit a ball (towards the front of you, at goal) with your left foot and not with the outside of the right.

If the player switches the ball towards the space you left to get him on his weaker foot he then has a much bigger target to aim at. Either you make a dive to block the shot, in which case he can turn onto his right foot again and there's nothing you can do, or you hope that by trying to block the ball standing and therefore getting there slower, puts the player off his shot enough so that he'll miss the target or not hit it cleanly. A player like Zlatan will hit that shot with his weaker foot and score more often than most would with their weaker foot. So all in all its harder to deal with a player who is very good with both feet.

As I said, if you show him to his left he might just pass the ball onto the flank instead of trying to engineer his shot. In which case you've done your job and its over to the fullback to do his.
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I'm sure plenty of defenders have that in mind when they're up against Berbatov or Zlatan.

Seriously, unless you've actually seen this put into practice then it's just a lot of bollocks really. Berbatov's standing position and body shape make him as hard to predict as anyone in this position, you may know he's not likely to shoot but that's just because he rarely shoots from range either way, and in terms of his passing in and around the box it's anything but predictable - for a number of reasons.

And I don't mean that in a bad way, because it shows you're understanding of the game again, but all of this is adding up to make a point that Berbatov is more predictable than Ibrahimovic, which you'll struggle to find many people to agree with I'd assume.
 
Of course I've seen it put into practice.

I'm saying that a player who is two footed and can shoot dangerously from range is more dangerous than a player who will always try and shoot with his right foot - just in terms of shooting and individual efforts on goal.

As you say, Berbatov hardly shoots from around the box anyway but I was comparing the two styles of player not just Berbatov and Ibra, as you were wondering if it was at all relevant that a player uses both feet well instead of relying on just one.

I'm not saying he becomes predictable because he doesnt use his left, I just mean a player like that is less dangerous (directly) around the box because he's easier to defend against as a single member of the team. As Berbatov will rather pass than shoot though of course there's still an element of unpredictability - though he does tend to go for the "right" pass, the one you know he's going to go for but cant defend against which makes it the right pass in the first place.
 
Tbf I think it was Carvalho who showed Berbatov onto his left against Chelsea when he switched feet and he created great space but it was a poor shot in the end. I think maybe Ekeke is trying to say that defenders have more of a chance of being punished if they show Ibra onto his weaker side which is fair enough.
 
Oh and come now Brwned, do you really think I post expecting a completely non-bias reaction/discussion about one of our players vs. someone else's player? There are very, very few here that will be objective or keep in mind that they see Berbatov a lot more than they watch Ibrahimovic. And it would be just the same only the other way around on an Inter forum.
 
Ekeke said:
Of course I've seen it put into practice.

I'm saying that a player who is two footed and can shoot dangerously from range is more dangerous than a player who will always try and shoot with his right foot - just in terms of shooting and individual efforts on goal.

As you say, Berbatov hardly shoots from around the box anyway but I was comparing the two styles of player not just Berbatov and Ibra, as you were wondering if it was at all relevant that a player uses both feet well instead of relying on just one.

I'm not saying he becomes predictable because he doesnt use his left, I just mean a player like that is less dangerous (directly) around the box because he's easier to defend against as a single member of the team. As Berbatov will rather pass than shoot though of course there's still an element of unpredictability - though he does tend to go for the "right" pass, the one you know he's going to go for but cant defend against which makes it the right pass in the first place.
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I agree with that a lot more than the original argument, which was about Ibrahimovic being better with his left foot rather than being better at variating between shooting and passing, which does make him more unpredictable in that sense.

But we're leaving this argument dead in the water.
 
Ekeke said:
Oh and come now Brwned, do you really think I post expecting a completely non-bias reaction/discussion about one of our players vs. someone else's player? There are very, very few here that will be objective or keep in mind that they see Berbatov a lot more than they watch Ibrahimovic. And it would be just the same only the other way around on an Inter forum.
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Are you saying I'm being biased and you're being unbiased?

:confused:
 
Brwned said:
Are you saying I'm being biased and you're being unbiased?

:confused:
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No :angel: You said you think there will be few people around here who agree with me about it. And thats my reason as to why.

Actually looking back, you said you expect few would agree with me that Berbatov is more predictable than Ibrahimovic, which is something even I dont agree with. :p
 
Ekeke said:
No :angel: You said you think there will be few people around here who agree with me about it. And thats my reason as to why.

Actually looking back, you said you expect few would agree with me that Berbatov is more predictable than Ibrahimovic, which is something even I dont agree with. :p
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Oh right well then yeah, no doubt. This forum's relatively unbiased compared to most others though, IMO.

:lol:
 
For me Ibrahimovich looked hungrier and more dangerous than Berba last night. But maybe in the home tie Berba will shine more. I thought Berba was really dire last night. He is an unbelievable player but I am getting a little worried about his performances as it is at this stage of the season that he should really start shining on the biggest stage.
 
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