I don’t celebrate goals anymore

Moby said:
Getting the right result is more important than people not having to wait a few seconds before celebrating.
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No it's not. It's absolutely not.
Think back on the best moments of your life. A lot of the ones in your top ten would be celebrating goals. Can you imagine VAR for Teddy and Ole's goals?

It's much better now than it was last year, it's just the odd offside one that gets checked (much better than serie a currently). If they can get that automated offside call done then all should be good
 
Moby said:
Which is an argument for improving replays and refereeing. Not removing the mechanism that gives you an opportunity to review potential errors and just continue with decisions made by the on field ref in a split second.
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I’m of the view that VAR should only be used for questions of objective fact. Did the ball cross the line, yes/no?

Offside cannot be determined with the level of accuracy they like to pretend it can, because nobody ever looks at the frame where the ball left the players foot. They show us this “frame by frame analysis” jumping back and forth of where the receiving player is, but there’s just no way of determining that precisely when the pass was made so it’s all for show and pointless.

And fouls are even worse.

Basically goal line tech is cool, everything else can get to feck.
 
17Larsson said:
No it's not. It's absolutely not.
Think back on the best moments of your life. A lot of the ones in your top ten would be celebrating goals. Can you imagine VAR for Teddy and Ole's goals?

It's much better now than it was last year, it's just the odd offside one that gets checked (much better than serie a currently). If they can get that automated offside call done then all should be good
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What is there to imagine? We would have still won the CL and all of us would have celebrated exactly as we did.

On the other hand if that goal was wrongly called offside and we lost the CL due to a wrong result would you rather still prefer not having replays that could have changed one of the biggest results ever for us when we rightly won?

Sorry but makes zero sense.
 
Rado_N said:
Offside cannot be determined with the level of accuracy they like to pretend it can, because nobody ever looks at the frame where the ball left the players foot. They show us this “frame by frame analysis” jumping back and forth of where the receiving player is, but there’s just no way of determining that precisely when the pass was made so it’s all for show and pointless.
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Just because it isn't perfect doesn't mean it isn't better than relying on manual vision of the linesman. They can refine the tech which is in its early stages but there's literally zero argument for not having replays for offside. You can't just say we'll wait for a better tech and then replay it. It will continue with the current method while it gets worked on because seeing something ten times is going to give you more information on the event than one man seeing it from one angle in every single scenario.
 
Rado_N said:
I’m of the view that VAR should only be used for questions of objective fact. Did the ball cross the line, yes/no?

Offside cannot be determined with the level of accuracy they like to pretend it can, because nobody ever looks at the frame where the ball left the players foot. They show us this “frame by frame analysis” jumping back and forth of where the receiving player is, but there’s just no way of determining that precisely when the pass was made so it’s all for show and pointless.

And fouls are even worse.

Basically goal line tech is cool, everything else can get to feck.
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They don't do this for off-side. They show a still with the lines drawn on it.
 
Rado_N said:
Basically goal line tech is cool
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You can say that because the processing of the results is not publicly available. Unless you have done hands on testing on the tech used you have no way of commenting on the accuracy because all the fans see is the refs watch vibrating and assume it's correct because it's automated. As someone who works in automation let me tell you that's not how it works.

Maybe if they never displayed the var refs doing the whole drawings etc on TV from day 1and just put a light on the pitch that lit based on the exact same process people wouldn't question it and assume it is correct. It is because they can see the whole process of deciding offsides which obviously looks weird they come out with the criticism.
 
Moby said:
You can say that because the processing of the results is not publicly available. Unless you have done hands on testing on the tech used you have no way of commenting on the accuracy because all the fans see is the refs watch vibrating and assume it's correct because it's automated. As someone who works in automation let me tell you that's not how it works.

Maybe if they never displayed the var refs doing the whole drawings etc on TV from day 1and just put a light on the pitch that lit based on the exact same process people wouldn't question it and assume it is correct. It is because they can see the whole process of deciding offsides which obviously looks weird they come out with the criticism.
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Ok get rid of goal line tech too then.
 
Moby said:
You can say that because the processing of the results is not publicly available. Unless you have done hands on testing on the tech used you have no way of commenting on the accuracy because all the fans see is the refs watch vibrating and assume it's correct because it's automated. As someone who works in automation let me tell you that's not how it works.

Maybe if they never displayed the var refs doing the whole drawings etc on TV from day 1and just put a light on the pitch that lit based on the exact same process people wouldn't question it and assume it is correct. It is because they can see the whole process of deciding offsides which obviously looks weird they come out with the criticism.
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Yep.

Goal line tech is more accurate but there's still some margin of error involved. But the telling thing is that I don't remember people even questioning its accuracy when it was introduced. They just accepted the result because it was presented as fact.

Whereas in trying to be transparent and showing the process with offside calls they ended up introducing more doubt. People end up not even knowing what certain lines they're seeing are supposed to be showing, or which parts of the body they're being drawn from.

Maybe they'll sell the upcoming semi-automated system better.
 
Rado_N said:
I’m of the view that VAR should only be used for questions of objective fact. Did the ball cross the line, yes/no?

Offside cannot be determined with the level of accuracy they like to pretend it can, because nobody ever looks at the frame where the ball left the players foot. They show us this “frame by frame analysis” jumping back and forth of where the receiving player is, but there’s just no way of determining that precisely when the pass was made so it’s all for show and pointless.

And fouls are even worse.

Basically goal line tech is cool, everything else can get to feck.
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Completely agree. There is no real benefit to the fans with the current arrangements.
 
17Larsson said:
No it's not. It's absolutely not.
Think back on the best moments of your life. A lot of the ones in your top ten would be celebrating goals. Can you imagine VAR for Teddy and Ole's goals?

It's much better now than it was last year, it's just the odd offside one that gets checked (much better than serie a currently). If they can get that automated offside call done then all should be good
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Yes it is, it absolutely is.
 
I was thinking about this after the game... Should a linesman have a signal for "hold on folks, this one is tight" so even if he thinks it's onside he can let fans /players know there will be an extensive check?
 
When you celebrate as our players did yesterday, it has to play in the officials’ minds when coming to a decision. If you put the ball in the net and then stop and wait to see if it counts before celebrating, it makes it a lot easier to rule a 50/50 out. We’re all human. Even when we’re assisted by video. Although this is more to do with potential fouls than a situation like yesterday’s where the line clearly showed Cavani onside.
 
The goal yesterday would in many cases be disallowed before VAR, as from the angle he looks way off a flash later. I was sure he was off from the first replay. In other words, this good goal is given 10/10 times with VAR, but in the past perhaps only 50%? Hard to argue against this, even if some feelings are removed.
 
Top said:
Happened again today. I was certain Rashford’s goal would be ruled out.
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Same for me. People were bouncing everywhere and I was stood still with no emotion expecting Rashford to be flagged offside. Then saw the VAR check. Even when it was given it was hard to react given the moment had almost passed.
 
There's a huge improvement to be made regarding offsides : 3D volumetric replays. I don't know if they use it in the PL but it's pretty common in NBA and big La Liga games. With the right computers and programming, it could be VERY accurate. Far more that these ridiculous lines. It would also be far more obvious to the audience :



The problem is, the rendering needs a lot of computer power so we might not be able to do it live as of right now, and it requires a lot of high tech cameras (PL can afford it) but once we're able to get a 3D view of the position with a vertical plan to show what part of the body is offside, it'll help a lot.
 
So people are ready to accept potentially wrong goals and results because otherwise it'd ruin their moment of celebration ? Can't say it will ever make sense to me
 
Judas said:
I can think of one Utd goal ever which I held back on celebrations due to VAR worries and it was Bruno's goal on Saturday because I thought it was offside. This whole issue is making a mountain out of a mole hill and I pity those who are that bothered by it.
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Still feel exactly the same way.
 
kouroux said:
So people are ready to accept potentially wrong goals and results because otherwise it'd ruin their moment of celebration ?
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Of course. Why watch football if you cannot enjoy the most vital part of a match?

I don’t watch football for the nice colors.
 
I was at the match yesterday and from where I was sitting - South Stand at the other end of the pitch - no-one had an inkling there was any thread of the goal being disallowed due to offside so the celebrations were raucous. It was a surprise to see the ref talking to VAR but the concern only lasted a brief moment. I can’t imagine the feeling if it had been disallowed.
 
kouroux said:
So people are ready to accept potentially wrong goals and results because otherwise it'd ruin their moment of celebration ? Can't say it will ever make sense to me
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The fact that its based on a minority of incidents when goals are ruled out makes it even more baffling.

United have scored 36 league goals and have had 1(?) goal disallowed. Anyone claiming they can't celebrate every goal United score because one or two could be ruled out doesn't appear to be thinking rationally or logically.
 
James Peril said:
The goal yesterday would in many cases be disallowed before VAR, as from the angle he looks way off a flash later. I was sure he was off from the first replay. In other words, this good goal is given 10/10 times with VAR, but in the past perhaps only 50%? Hard to argue against this, even if some feelings are removed.
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You seem to be forgetting that under the old system neither the linesman or the ref would be using the camera angle to make any decisions. The on-field decision was goal, wasn't it? It was checked back by VAR. I think that one gets given pre-VAR.
 
kouroux said:
So people are ready to accept potentially wrong goals and results because otherwise it'd ruin their moment of celebration ? Can't say it will ever make sense to me
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Football has always been an incredible sport to watch, despite “potentially wrong goals and results”. Yet we’re now in a situation where it’s completely changed the fan’s experience because of this mental obsession with getting rid of very occasional incorrect decisions (and we still have a load of bad decisions every weekend regardless)
 
I'll let you in on a little secret lads *you can still celebrate a goal despite the off chance VAR might disallow it. Better yet, you can celebrate twice if you want to. Do with that information what you will
 
I think we are starting to get a more balanced use of VAR(or maybe I am just getting used to it) One early frustration for me was the rash of stupidly soft pens for incredibly minor contact. Ronaldo yesterday, would probably have been a pen in the early days of VAR, with massive overreactions to very little.
 
I celebrate them twice. Once when the ball goes in, and once when VAR confirms it. It's great. The same thing, gives me two moments to celebrate. Thanks VAR
 
Top said:
Of course. Why watch football if you cannot enjoy the most vital part of a match?

I don’t watch football for the nice colors.
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Be honest, how many times do you actually not celebrate when Utd score goals ? I feel like you're blowing things way out of proportion
 
RonaldoVII said:
Same for me. People were bouncing everywhere and I was stood still with no emotion expecting Rashford to be flagged offside. Then saw the VAR check. Even when it was given it was hard to react given the moment had almost passed.
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This is a horrible argument against VAR by the way. The correct decision is more important than my celebration.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Football has always been an incredible sport to watch, despite “potentially wrong goals and results”. Yet we’re now in a situation where it’s completely changed the fan’s experience because of this mental obsession with getting rid of very occasional incorrect decisions (and we still have a load of bad decisions every weekend regardless)
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The amount of mistakes directly affecting the scoreline have decreased. It's something that cannot be denied. I'll enjoy more my team scoring legit goals even if it means I have to delay my celebration a little. We're not kids anymore are we ?
 
Withnail said:
The fact that its based on a minority of incidents when goals are ruled out makes it even more baffling.

United have scored 36 league goals and have had 1(?) goal disallowed. Anyone claiming they can't celebrate every goal United score because one or two could be ruled out doesn't appear to be thinking rationally or logically.
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This sort of thread needs to be revisited when opponent teams score offside goals versus us. I wonder what's the reaction then
 
I knew Rashford (Cavani) was well offside the moment it went in but I still went mad celebrating because I knew they weren’t going to rule it out.

You just can’t humanly go against Old Traffords roar when they’ve been in such a long drawn out depression for the past few months.

There is life in football after all.
 
I thought this was a post about Martial.

Anyway maybe instead try crying when we score a goal and then if VAR rules it a goal you can have an ultra big celebration.
 
I don't think I've celebrated a goal immediately in 22 years since Keane and Sheringham had late offside calls against Arsenal & Juve in like the space of a week.
 
Top said:
Of course. Why watch football if you cannot enjoy the most vital part of a match?

I don’t watch football for the nice colors.
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But why don't you just celebrate the goal anyway, and then find out later if it's a goal or not. There's nothing stopping you celebrating the initial goal.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
But why don't you just celebrate the goal anyway, and then find out later if it's a goal or not. There's nothing stopping you celebrating the initial goal.
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Because going from pure ecstasy to bitter disappointment in such a short time frame is rather crushing. Not celebrating a goal is a defence mechanism. They look for every possible reason to disallow goals.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
But why don't you just celebrate the goal anyway, and then find out later if it's a goal or not. There's nothing stopping you celebrating the initial goal.
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One does not choose to celebrate. It is an impulsive emotion. Choosing to celebrate is not a thing in my book. That would be fake.
 
Remember the geese said:
Because going from pure ecstasy to bitter disappointment in such a short time frame is rather crushing. Not celebrating a goal is a defence mechanism. They look for every possible reason to disallow goals.
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Exactly. Defense mechanism!
 
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