Hunting

[WeasteDevil]

Shooting a duck is rather different that tormenting a fox.

Then again, the beef from a fighting bull is like no other. We all have to die one way or another, an many humans die in quite nasty circumstances as well. But you have to place all of this into some type of context, and view it as what it is. Foxes need to be shot, so do deers, so does any wild animal that has no predators. The reason that they have no natural predators may be down to man, but they do need controlling in their numbers. Whether you agree by the means or not is a different matter. Obviously others are taken for food, such as geese and ducks, and they have limited hunting seasons.

For those that like animals, I hope that you do not eat fish, because I think that they but go through the worst torment.

 

[BRobson]

Urban foxes are a different issue. While they resemble pests, many people in towns and cities "adopt" them, leaving them food. Because they have assimilated in to urban life, they are a lot more placid.

They do cause some issues, like outdoor pets such as rabbits and guinea pigs being eaten, occasionally. They are more of an inconvenience that an actual threat.

Cats too (so nextdoor found out). But thats nature I suppose.

 

[Saints RL MUFC]

Cats too (so nextdoor found out). But thats nature I suppose.

Aye, although it is a rare occurrence apparently.

 

[Iron Stove]

As Elizabeth has already pointed out she is vegitarian as am I so does this mean I am just in calling you a complete and utter cnut?

I guess so, me along with everyone that eats meat, fish and dairy products as well I suppose. Has to be lonely up there on that high horse of yours.

Anyone who takes another life for fun is scum. And yes I do live in the country, you're all a bunch of cnuts. Its not feckin sport, its cowardly. If you really want to hunt why not hunt something that can fight back? Or better yet just have a gun fight with yourself.

I'm not familiar with these fox hunts but they seem to stir a lot of emotion in the UK. But it seems like you guys are against every form of hunting. Are you against hunting for food as well or is it only the "pest control" you are against??

Well, for a start, we shouldn't have to manage the population. Fox hunting doesn't kill enough foxes to really count as pest control, infact I bet there are ten times more foxes killed by cars and disease than by hunting.

Managing, or, culling certain species of animal to control the population is a very slippery and controversial slope. For a start, it's an eco-system, which means every action has a reaction. For example, foxes numbers go down, what happens to the rabbits, or badgers, or other animals that are either competitors to or prey of the fox? You mentioned the Grey Squirrel hunters, employed because of mistakes made in the past when introducing new species to a system. I could also point you in the direction of the Chinese government that killed millions of sparrows which resulted in millions of humans dying of starvation. I'm not saying it's the same thing, make sure you realise that, I'm just trying to illustrate a point. Infact I'm sure you know this, which is why I'm baffled as to how someone can honestly support something so fecking twatish.

Well you have to manage animal populations if you don't want to change the eco system. 100 years ago there where about 100 bears in my native Sweden. Now there are 2500 and not only are they dangerous to man, but if there are too many of one dominant species it will feck up the eco system. You need to have some sort of balance otherwise some animals might get extinct etc.
Traffic accidents involving wild animals like moose, deer and foxes is another thing to consider. Last year there were about 35 000 accidents like this in Sweden of which 14 were deadly while 800 were more or less seriously injured. And that's not mentioning the costs, but I guess some will argue that every life is worth the same but then again, most wouldn't. If there wasn't any to control animal population obviously these numbers would be extreme.
Modern hunting is extremely regulated, you have to report every animal you shoot and there are different caps on how many animals that can be killed each year. Sadly, there are cnuts who don't follow the rules but they are few and when caught often get prison sentences. A serious hunter don't go out in the forest and shoot at everything they see but will only take a shot when he's sure that the animal will die instantly. And if an accident still happens the hunt stops and everyone goes searching for the injured animal.

Shooting a duck is rather different that tormenting a fox.

Then again, the beef from a fighting bull is like no other. We all have to die one way or another, an many humans die in quite nasty circumstances as well. But you have to place all of this into some type of context, and view it as what it is. Foxes need to be shot, so do deers, so does any wild animal that has no predators. The reason that they have no natural predators may be down to man, but they do need controlling in their numbers. Whether you agree by the means or not is a different matter. Obviously others are taken for food, such as geese and ducks, and they have limited hunting seasons.

For those that like animals, I hope that you do not eat fish, because I think that they but go through the worst torment.

I agree with this.

Wild meat is a lot more sane than what you get at the supermarket. There seem to be some notion that humans in the last 50 years or so should have evolved beyond hunting and eating meat. I understand if you are 100% vegetarian, but it's asking pretty much that everyone should be like you. We are carnivores after all.

I'm a bit baffled to see that this subject is so controversial on here tbf.

 

[surf]

Why not just enjoy nature and the countryside/outdoors without shooting the animals? That way other people get the opportunity to see the wildlife too. If you're going to shoot, use a camera. It's easier to carry than a gun and has no effect on the environment. Also, the presence of hunters with guns inhibits the opportunity of others to share the same outdoor environment, for obvious safety reasons. I'm a wilderness backpacker and feel much safer in areas where guns are forbidden.

 

[Derek Brown]

Probably back yonder where the interweb hasn't reached properly. Flipping townies and their new-fangled machines.

It seems to me that your main argument is that "townies" don't understand or appreciate your "community service". I was born and bred at the far end of Cornwall and still live here (is that rural enough for you?) and, in my opinion, the hunting ban was spot on. Blood thirsty twats on their horses, hunting down a species which is reducing in number dramatically, is NOT a community service. Barbaric, yes. Service, NO.

 

[Saints RL MUFC]

It seems to me that your main argument is that "townies" don't understand or appreciate your "community service". I was born and bred at the far end of Cornwall and still live here (is that rural enough for you?) and, in my opinion, the hunting ban was spot on. Blood thirsty twats on their horses, hunting down a species which is reducing in number dramatically, is NOT a community service. Barbaric, yes. Service, NO.

Actually, that remark was satirical, aimed at the people calling hunters barbaric.

My main argument for hunting is that it is the most humane way of dealing with pests.

 

[Derek Brown]

Actually, that remark was satirical, aimed at the people calling hunters barbaric.

My main argument for hunting is that it is the most humane way of dealing with pests.

So, chasing them down for hours with a pack of dogs and horses, and then having them ripped apart by the dogs is HUMANE? Don't think so. IF it was necessary to deal with these "pests" (and who dictates what a "pest" is anyway?) it takes ONE CLEAN SHOT by a decent marksman. You don't have to run the "pest" into the ground before enjoying the spectacle of watching it being ripped from limb to limb.

 

[Saints RL MUFC]

So, chasing them down for hours with a pack of dogs and horses, and then having them ripped apart by the dogs is HUMANE? Don't think so. IF it was necessary to deal with these "pests" (and who dictates what a "pest" is anyway?) it takes ONE CLEAN SHOT by a decent marksman. You don't have to run the "pest" into the ground before enjoying the spectacle of watching it being ripped from limb to limb.

The best marksmen get a clean shot on a fox between 5-10% of the time. The rest of the time the fox is either paralysed and left to starve, or is left severely wounded to die of injuries days, maybe weeks later.

You say they are ripped limb from limb. No, they aren't. The hounds are trained to get one sharp bite in the right area and the fox is dead before it knows it has been bitten. It is then collected by the houndsman.

And where have I said I enjoyed it. As I have repeated (about 20 times in this thread) I agree to it as the most humane form of pest control.

And yes, as the fully thinking species, we get to determine who is a pest.

 

[Derek Brown]

The best marksmen get a clean shot on a fox between 5-10% of the time. The rest of the time the fox is either paralysed and left to starve, or is left severely wounded to die of injuries days, maybe weeks later.

One shot will mean that it can't run. One more shot, by a "caring" individual, would finish the "pest" off. [/COLOR]

You say they are ripped limb from limb. No, they aren't. The hounds are trained to get one sharp bite in the right area and the fox is dead before it knows it has been bitten. It is then collected by the houndsman.

So the footage of it actually happening, and shown many times on T.V. was stage managed, was it?[/COLOR][/COLOR]

And where have I said I enjoyed it. As I have repeated (about 20 times in this thread) I agree to it as the most humane form of pest control.

If you don't enjoy doing something, you don't do it. Pretty simple really.

And yes, as the fully thinking species, we get to determine who is a pest.

You mean YOU , and the people like you who consider the fox to be a "pest", decide.

You have your opinion and I have mine. I prefer mine.

 

[Saints RL MUFC]

You mean YOU , and the people like you who consider the fox to be a "pest", decide.

Do you consider rats to be a pest? Why?

Foxes cause infinite number of problems to farmers with livestock. Lambs being eaten, calves being eaten as the cow gives birth. Chicken's being killed. They also cause diseases which they collect from eating animals, and pass it on to the live stock in their next meal.

You have your opinion and I have mine. I prefer mine.

I don't begrudge anyone an opinion, it just happens that the majority of anti opinion is born of prejudicial rubbish born of the mass media.

 

[Saints RL MUFC]

One shot will mean that it can't run. One more shot, by a "caring" individual, would finish the "pest" off.

So the footage of it actually happening, and shown many times on T.V. was stage managed, was it?


If you don't enjoy doing something, you don't do it. Pretty simple really.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.

I would like very much to see this footage.

I don't enjoy doing a lot of things, however, some things need to be done for various reasons, it is a fact of life.

 

[Derek Brown]

Do you consider rats to be a pest? Why?

Rats are spreading like wildfire, foxes aren't.

Foxes cause infinite number of problems to farmers with livestock. Lambs being eaten, calves being eaten as the cow gives birth. Chicken's being killed. They also cause diseases which they collect from eating animals, and pass it on to the live stock in their next meal.

And your proof of this? It seems to me that farmers are only happy when they're bleating on about how tough things are for them, yet they still seem to manage to buy the latest Land Rover or whatever. While we're on the subject of "disease spreading" I suppose you want to kill all the badgers as well?



I don't begrudge anyone an opinion, it just happens that the majority of anti opinion is born of prejudicial rubbish born of the mass media.

Most kind.

 

[Maroon Lucifer]

We kill pilot whales here, but it's for food though, not sports.

 

[Saints RL MUFC]

Rats are spreading like wildfire, foxes aren't.

Because thanks to new found loop holes, hunting can continue.

And your proof of this? It seems to me that farmers are only happy when they're bleating on about how tough things are for them, yet they still seem to manage to buy the latest Land Rover or whatever. While we're on the subject of "disease spreading" I suppose you want to kill all the badgers as well?

Ah, yes, we are onto that old stereotype.

I support the culling of badgers to prevent tuberculosis in cattle, not the eradication. As I have said all along, I support hunting as the most humane way of pest control.

 

[Godfather]

cnuting hunt

 

[Derek Brown]

Because thanks to new found loop holes, hunting can continue.



Ah, yes, we are onto that old stereotype.

If the cap fits.............

I support the culling of badgers to prevent tuberculosis in cattle, not the eradication. As I have said all along, I support hunting as the most humane way of pest control.

Yet another "pro hunting" claim that has never been proved.

 

[Saints RL MUFC]

Yet another "pro hunting" claim that has never been proved.

Badgers are the root cause of 20% of TB in cattle. There are positive steps to avoid culling being put forward, including the introduction of vaccinations. However, these vaccinations remain unpopular due to their effect on yield and quality. Once the system is improved, and vaccination is perfected to create the best results for farmers, I have no issue with badgers.

 

[Derek Brown]

Badgers are the root cause of 20% of TB in cattle. There are positive steps to avoid culling being put forward, including the introduction of vaccinations. However, these vaccinations remain unpopular due to their effect on yield and quality. Once the system is improved, and vaccination is perfected to create the best results for farmers, I have no issue with badgers.

Is that why you support their culling, then?

 

[Saints RL MUFC]

Is that why you support their culling, then?

Ah yes, the old picking out half the quote to support your argument bit? Are you a tabloid journalist per chance?

 

[TheReligion]

I dont understand why Fox Huniting is classed as a sport? to be honest, the poor fox doesnt have much of a chance.

I find it very strange that a bunch of grown men dress up on horse back, blow a bugle and chase a defenceless creature.

Ive seen many undercover camera shows where protesters have been "roughed up" by farmers when trying to video hunts.. why is this the case?

Id love to be there myself and knock seven bells of shit out of some of the pompous twats that take part - and believe me, I would.

 

[Saints RL MUFC]

I dont understand why Fox Huniting is classed as a sport? to be honest, the poor fox doesnt have much of a chance.

I have not supported it as a sport at any point through this thread.

I find it very strange that a bunch of grown men dress up on horse back, blow a bugle and chase a defenceless creature.

Fox's are quite well equipped at defending, as my uncle found out once.

Ive seen many undercover camera shows where protesters have been "roughed up" by farmers when trying to video hunts.. why is this the case?

They are trespassing. Simple as. If they refuse to leave, farmers don't take shit.

Id love to be there myself and knock seven bells of shit out of some of the pompous twats that take part - and believe me, I would.

You should go along to one to experience it, people from all classes take part, and it builds a great sense of community.

 

[Godfather]

You should go along to one to experience it, people from all classes take part, and it builds a great sense of community.

National socialism also built a great sense of community didnt it?
I hate all that talk about beeing a strong community. dressing in uniforms, carriing weapons and thinkin to be something special.
Maybe you have to compensate something or you just havent learnt anything during your history lessons.

 

[Iron Stove]

National socialism also built a great sense of community didnt it?
I hate all that talk about beeing a strong community. dressing in uniforms, carriing weapons and thinkin to be something special.
Maybe you have to compensate something or you just havent learnt anything during your history lessons.

So hunters are nazis basically. Enlightening post.

 

[Godfather]

So hunters are nazis basically. Enlightening post.

I didnt say that dumbhead. All I said, is that those over-hyped community shit can easily go into the wrong way. And if you all are so horny to be in a strong community then go and found a chess club or something. It's not necessary to kill foxes just to be in a community is it?

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

If you don't enjoy doing something, you don't do it. Pretty simple really.

I go to work five fecking days a week, thank you very much.

 

[Iron Stove]

So hunting foxes = nazi but < founding a chess club?

I'm not into UK fox hunts, I basically know nothing about it other than what I've read in this thread but I thank you for the remarkable contribution.

I bet hunting is very popular in Austria though, why get so passionate about foreign fox hunting?

 

[Godfather]

So hunting foxes = nazi but < founding a chess club?

I'm not into UK fox hunts, I basically know nothing about it other than what I've read in this thread but I thank you for the remarkable contribution.

I bet hunting is very popular in Austria though, why get so passionate about foreign fox hunting?

Oh god. That comment from me concerning national sozialism was just an answer to that stupid comment of what a great community there is in such a hunting crowd. And yes a chess club would be something better than to hunt foxes, dumbhead. Who the hell promoted you?

And there is some sensible reason for why I'm against foxhunting in any country of the world, cause its the most inhuman thing to do and the way those foxes are killed is unactepable.

 

[lynchie]

Ah hunting! Pissed blokes on horseback, starting at the pub in the morning, then going out with their ninja trained hounds that always, ALWAYS kill the fox within 2 seconds of getting to it (after a 10 minute chase that terrifies foxes to the point of heart failure), then back to the pub to talk about how terrible all the townies are for not understanding.

But if they didn't do it, the country would be covered in foxes, right? Except it isn't, and it wouldn't be, because eco-systems control themselves. But sensationalism and exaggeration sell car stickers.

And I've lived in the countryside for 15 years, and know plenty that are against hunting, including farmers. Justify it all you like, it's wrong, and you're a cnut.

 

[Iron Stove]

You have to admit, that nazi comparison was rather rubbish.

 

[Godfather]

Ah hunting! Pissed blokes on horseback, starting at the pub in the morning, then going out with their ninja trained hounds that always, ALWAYS kill the fox within 2 seconds of getting to it (after a 10 minute chase that terrifies foxes to the point of heart failure), then back to the pub to talk about how terrible all the townies are for not understanding.

But if they didn't do it, the country would be covered in foxes, right? Except it isn't, and it wouldn't be, because eco-systems control themselves. But sensationalism and exaggeration sell car stickers.

And I've lived in the countryside for 15 years, and know plenty that are against hunting, including farmers. Justify it all you like, it's wrong, and you're a cnut.

couldnt have said it any better. i 100% agree with you mate.

 

[Godfather]

You have to admit, that nazi comparison was rather rubbish.

No not rubbish. Overhyped. Like all of you cnuts trying to defend hunting.
But yes, it was overhyped, but that was intentional, if you dont get it, just let it be.

 

[Iron Stove]

No not rubbish. Overhyped. Like all of you cnuts trying to defend hunting.
But yes, it was overhyped, but that was intentional, if you dont get it, just let it be.

Fox hunting with dogs is obviously a sensitive issue to a lot of people but it's not a form that is legal in my country and which I know nothing about anyway so I can't really pass any judgement. But that aside, I haven't seen any sensible arguments against (general)hunting. It's not more 'inhumane' than buying meat or fish at the supermarket in my opinion. In fact, less so.

 

[Godfather]

Fox hunting with dogs is obviously a sensitive issue to a lot of people but it's not a form that is legal in my country and which I know nothing about anyway so I can't really pass any judgement. But that aside, I haven't seen any sensible arguments against (general)hunting. It's not more 'inhumane' than buying meat or fish at the supermarket in my opinion. In fact, less so.

Well that post is pretty sensible, i must admit. But you must see the way those foxes are killed and the reason why.
They are haunted by dogs for at least 10 minutes. When not dying because of an heartattack they will get ripped apart by the dogs after that time.
And i cant see any reason why they sould kill them. Really not. They are certainly not a plague, as some people have mentioned. so why kill them?

 

[Elizabeth]

Id love to be there myself and knock seven bells of shit out of some of the pompous twats that take part - and believe me, I would.

Cool,so its all agreed.We meet up at a country pub,have a couple of glasses of port then chase Saints across country until he can run no more,then we kill the bastard slowly,making up some bullshit about seeing him eating a kentucky and that he's a pest and class it as sport?Seems to be a really popular option-how about it Saints?no?thought not.You have a chance to out run us or to fight back when we set upon you.Youre a coward!!!
To be fair he's not even got the guts to ride in a hunt-he's a dangleberry who runs along behind in some old biddies car but brags about the hunt as he thinks he makes him look hard and like a 'real man'.He's the kind of bloke who goes to dogging places but watches from the bushes.Wannabe??

 

[Ivor Ballokov]

Has to be lonely up there on that high horse of yours.
.

It's quite nice being right actually, please can you refrain yourself from savagely murdering my high horse though?

Cool,so its all agreed.We meet up at a country pub,have a couple of glasses of port then chase Saints across country until he can run no more,then we kill the bastard slowly,making up some bullshit about seeing him eating a kentucky and that he's a pest and class it as sport?Seems to be a really popular option-how about it Saints?no?thought not.You have a chance to out run us or to fight back when we set upon you.Youre a coward!!!
To be fair he's not even got the guts to ride in a hunt-he's a dangleberry who runs along behind in some old biddies car but brags about the hunt as he thinks he makes him look hard and like a 'real man'.He's the kind of bloke who goes to dogging places but watches from the bushes.Wannabe??

Elizabeth you are a truly wonderful woman

 

[crappycraperson]

Don't think regular meat eaters can really have a go at hunters. It's been shown quite a few times now that in large number of slaughter houses animals are killed cruelly. Same is true for fishing, as Weaste said they go though pretty bad torment as well.
The argument that doing something like that for fun or hobby makes it more despicable is valid to some extent. But then same should hold for fishing.

 

[golden_blunder]

Im not sure how its classed as a "sport"

how would you like it if you were walking down the street, minding your own business and someone shot you with a rifle from a passing car

 

[Derek Brown]

I go to work five fecking days a week, thank you very much.

??????????????????? Where did that come from?

 

[Saints RL MUFC]

I see people are still convinced that I believe it is done for fun, rather than the most humane form of pest control.

Jolly good.