How peaceful is Islam?

[Classical Mechanic]

Why go back so far in time? Let's just go back roughly 70 years. How many Muslims were out killing in the name of Islam? Or let's go back to when Saddam was in power and the middle east wasn't a political clusterfeck?

The Ottoman Empire was involved in a really really lot of wars. How many they started and how motivated they they were by faith I do not know.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Is that simply because of the 'effects' they have on the world currently? Because, numerically, they're absolutely a minority.

Were there ever terrorists who were not a minority? For terrorist they need to be classed on impact and not on numerics, imo.

 

[Momochiru]

Missed the '2015' bit, nvm.

Though try calculating what percentage of those victims are Muslims themselves.

Also to me it doesn't matter if Muslims are killing other Muslims, or Non-Muslims. Violence is still violence.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Were there ever terrorists who were not a minority? For terrorist they need to be classed on impact and not on numerics, imo.

Minority/majority is always classed based on numbers. Anything else devoids it of the meaning of the word itself.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I've always considered it to be a case of power/money/violence hungry people using religion as an excuse to give their actions "ligitimacy" rather than the religion itself being the root cause. An " interpretation" of God's script is the most convenient thing to justify your actions and brainwash daft people into believing you to be right. If it was the religioun itself I imagine we wouldn't have so many peaceful devout Muslims across the globe.

At the same time, I would like to read it myself to say for sure.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I find it strange why it is so hard to see that people saying maybe there is something wrong with Islam are definitely not implying that all Muslims are wrong. It maybe a minority of Muslims but considering that other religions aren't coming up with similar numbers must mean that there could be a reason and is definitely worth a debate.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I've always considered it to be a case of power/money/violence hungry people using religion as an excuse to give their actions "ligitimacy" rather than the religion itself being the root cause. An " interpretation" of God's script is the most convenient thing to justify your actions and brainwash daft people into believing you to be right. If it was the religioun itself I imagine we wouldn't have so many peaceful devout Muslims across the globe.

At the same time, I would like to read it myself to say for sure.

My take on it as the religion when interpreted by sensible people is probably no less of a problem than any other religion interpreted by sensible people. It's also got some wonderful unique qualities about hospitality, charity and showing a welcome to strangers that you see put into practice more than you do with many other religions.

At this stage, though, it would be disingenuous to pretend that it's not more prone than other religions to be twisted (by bad people) and used to subjugate women, homosexuals and as a basis for horrendous acts of violence. All the evidence indicates that this is the case, some of which is in the OP.

 

[adexkola]

The Ottoman Empire was involved in a really really lot of wars. How many they started and how motivated they they were by faith I do not know.

Depends on how far you go back but by the 1700s their wars were mostly defensive, fighting against a growing Europe.

 

[Siorac]

All religious texts are full of inconsistencies and contradictions so anyone can interpret them just about any way they like. That's basically the history of religion; you wouldn't think that from the Gospels the Catholic Church could get to burning people at the stake but they did it, somehow.

The issue with Islam is that it was created by a barbaric 7th century warlord in a harsh, unforgiving environment so all those texts contain more than a healthy amount of references to chopping off heads and hands and such which is unfortunate as fanatics will carry those out eagerly. So yeah. It's a religion not much suited to the 21st century, except if you start cherrypicking what you like in the Koran. But I think that's apostasy and punishable by death, right?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I find it strange why it is so hard to see that people saying maybe there is something wrong with Islam are definitely not implying that all Muslims are wrong. It maybe a minority of Muslims but considering that other religions aren't coming up with similar numbers must mean that there could be a reason and is definitely worth a debate.

Because it's usually based on "Muslims are committing violence". Everyone's open to discussion but I'd imagine every rational non biased person would need more to go on to think a religion in itself is screwed up when millions who follow it deeply and religiously (ahem) are just like you and me and don't pick up guns. The deduction has to be stronger than "Muslims are committing acts of violence so Islam is a violent thing". Not saying it isn't or isn't but that isn't enough to say it is on its own.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

My take on it as the religion when interpreted by sensible people is probably no less of a problem than any other religion interpreted by sensible people. It's also got some wonderful unique qualities about hospitality, charity and showing a welcome to strangers that you see put into practice more than you do with many other religions.

At this stage, though, it would be disingenuous to pretend that it's not more prone than other religions to be twisted (by bad people) and used to subjugate women, homosexuals and as a basis for horrendous acts of violence. All the evidence indicates that this is the case, some of which is in the OP.

That's not evidence that points to the scripts themselves being inherently flawed though. Someone posting the exact wordings would provide that evidence. I simply don't know enough to speak about that. Maybe
Christianity has as much text that can be manipulated but the countries where Christians reside are organised and well governed states with effective education and infrastructure to remove any scope of such misuse?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

All religious texts are full of inconsistencies and contradictions so anyone can interpret them just about any way they like. That's basically the history of religion; you wouldn't think that from the Gospels the Catholic Church could get to burning people at the stake but they did it, somehow.

The issue with Islam is that it was created by a barbaric 7th century warlord in a harsh, unforgiving environment so all those texts contain more than a healthy amount of references to chopping off heads and hands and such which is unfortunate as fanatics will carry those out eagerly. So yeah. It's a religion not much suited to the 21st century, except if you start cherrypicking what you like in the Koran. But I think that's apostasy and punishable by death, right?

Interesting.

Religion is probably the only thing on the planet that moves further and further away from the current times instead of trying to keep pace with it. Reform should be a part of it when you're followed books that old. Seems daft.

 

[JPRouve]

Also to me it doesn't matter if Muslims are killing other Muslims, or Non-Muslims. Violence is still violence.

Violence is still violence that's true, but in France the conflicts between Protestants and Catholics provoked between 70000 and 100000 victims at a time where the population was 5 time less important. Do you think that Christianism isn't peaceful?
There is a problem with Islam it's a fact and to me it's partially due to the fact that it's a religion born at a difficult time and his literature reflects that time, so it is imperative to educate the population and give them all the tools available to understand that a part of the texts only had a sense at the time they were written, it's also probably crucial to see muslims right theological books that reflect more the current time.

 

[Skills]

Don't know about peaceful, it does come across extremely intolerant though - which I guess fuels its share of nutters to be more more violent than the nutters in the rest of the world.

 

[Attila]

I've always thought that the violence stems from the fact that most of the region is in complete turmoil politically and that's why there is so much conflict going on. I don't really blame it on Islam.

It's a unstable region of the world which has had lots of changes going on in the past 10+ years

 

[Attila]

My take on it as the religion when interpreted by sensible people is probably no less of a problem than any other religion interpreted by sensible people. It's also got some wonderful unique qualities about hospitality, charity and showing a welcome to strangers that you see put into practice more than you do with many other religions.

At this stage, though, it would be disingenuous to pretend that it's not more prone than other religions to be twisted (by bad people) and used to subjugate women, homosexuals and as a basis for horrendous acts of violence. All the evidence indicates that this is the case, some of which is in the OP.

Doesn't this kind of thing happen in Christian African countries also? If Europe was in the same kind of state as the middle east would it not descend into such violence also just because there's not that much Islam around...I doubt it

 

[FCBarca]

No less peaceful than the 'crusaders' or those holding the inquisitions

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Violence is still violence that's true, but in France the conflicts between Protestants and Catholics provoked between 70000 and 100000 victims at a time where the population was 5 time less important. Do you think that Christianism isn't peaceful?
There is a problem with Islam it's a fact and to me it's partially due to the fact that it's a religion born at a difficult time and his literature reflects that time, so it is imperative to educate the population and give them all the tools available to understand that a part of the texts only had a sense at the time they were written, it's also probably crucial to see muslims right theological books that reflect more the current time.

Christianity is irrelevant in the European West so if it is peaceful or not is irrelevant. Islam is a faith that is still at the core of many its followers lives, both in the East and West. It is relevant to debate the nature of the Islamic texts when they prove to be so divisive here and now in 2015.

 

[Momochiru]

I really find it difficult to classify ISIS as a minority.

ISIS in Iraq and Syria is the most prominent group at the moment, but doesn't account even for a quarter of the terrorist attacks. There are dozens other local Islamic groups attacking innocent people in all corners of the world. Boko Haram is in Nigeria, Cameroon and other West African nations, the Taliban is in Afghanistan, the Uyghur are in China, al-Qaeda and Jundullah in Pakistan, al-Nusra in Lebanon, BIFF in the Philippines, Al-shabaab in Somalia and Kenya, the UCK in Macedonia, PFLP, PIJ, Hamas and many others in Israel, PKK in Turkey, Ansarullah in Bangladesh, al-Mourabitoun in Mali, Jemaah in Thailand and many others. When I started research I was really surprised how widespread the problem is.

 

[Maagge]

I've always thought that the violence stems from the fact that most of the region is in complete turmoil politically and that's why there is so much conflict going on. I don't really blame it on Islam.

It's a unstable region of the world which has had lots of changes going on in the past 10+ years

Yeah a lot of the countries are in the gutter. However it's worth point out that politics and religion are pretty intertwined in those countries so it's difficult to blame one thing and not the other.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

No less peaceful than the 'crusaders' or those holding the inquisitions

A lot more relevant today though.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Minority/majority is always classed based on numbers. Anything else devoids it of the meaning of the word itself.

Not saying otherwise. I'm just questioning the arguments based on majority/minority when relating to terrorism. Most, if not all terrorist group are minority per se. It's the rule, not the exception and I fail to see where that "Oh no, they are a minority" argument leads to, when the whole terrorist group population is a minority.

 

[Momochiru]

Violence is still violence that's true, but in France the conflicts between Protestants and Catholics provoked between 70000 and 100000 victims at a time where the population was 5 time less important. Do you think that Christianism isn't peaceful?
There is a problem with Islam it's a fact and to me it's partially due to the fact that it's a religion born at a difficult time and his literature reflects that time, so it is imperative to educate the population and give them all the tools available to understand that a part of the texts only had a sense at the time they were written, it's also probably crucial to see muslims right theological books that reflect more the current time.

No doubt Christianity fueled a lot of violence in the past. However it has transformed itself more or less to fit the 21st century reality. Islam on the other hand insists on applying today the same society norms as 1,300 years ago.

I don't want to compare different religions - any religion could be used to brainwash people into committing atrocities. Islam seams to be much more prone to it.

 

[Momochiru]

Doesn't this kind of thing happen in Christian African countries also? If Europe was in the same kind of state as the middle east would it not descend into such violence also just because there's not that much Islam around...I doubt it

Yes, there are a couple armed conflicts in Christian Africa, but far more are in the Muslim parts. See the OP and the percentage of Islamic armed conflicts.

 

[Attila]

No doubt Christianity fueled a lot of violence in the past. However it has transformed itself more or less to fit the 21st century reality. Islam on the other hand insists on applying today the same society norms as 1,300 years ago.

I don't want to compare different religions - any religion could be used to brainwash people into committing atrocities. Islam seams to be much more prone to it.

Is this not due to the western world being much more economically developed and better educated than the middle east moslem countries

 

[Attila]

Yes, there are a couple armed conflicts in Christian Africa, but far more are in the Muslim parts. See the OP and the percentage of Islamic armed conflicts.

Yes I read your OP. I still don't really see the conflicts as something driven by the religion rather than the geopolitical problems of the region

 

[Momochiru]

Is this not due to the western world being much more economically developed and better educated than the middle east moslem countries

Christianity is not restricted to the western world only. There are plenty of undeveloped countries in central America for example, however this area is largely peaceful - currently only Mexico and Columbia are involved in armed conflicts, and those are related to drug trafficking, not fueled by religion.

 

[JPRouve]

No doubt Christianity fueled a lot of violence in the past. However it has transformed itself more or less to fit the 21st century reality. Islam on the other hand insists on applying today the same society norms as 1,300 years ago.

I don't want to compare different religions - any religion could be used to brainwash people into committing atrocities. Islam seams to be much more prone to it.

Islam is 600 years younger, if anything they are evolving faster than Christianity. You are basically asking a society to mature faster than any other, if we want them to evolve fast we need to help them, genuinely help them.

 

[Attila]

Christianity is not restricted to the western world only. There are plenty of undeveloped countries in central America for example, however this area is largely peaceful - currently only Mexico and Columbia are involved in armed conflicts, and those are related to drug trafficking, not fueled by religion.

I don't know much about South American politics but how many of those countries have been invaded by a foreign power and/or had some sort of regime change in the past 10 years

 

[dumbo]

I would be interested to see stats compiled in a similar way detailing the death toll attributed to our all encompassing atheist religion of capitalism - particularly the aggressive capitalist extremism carried out in the third world by western money. I would be very suprised if any ideology could compete with the violence of capitalism. Even the moderate form of worship that I practice no doubt contributes to a huge level of brutality.

I would guess that Islam was positively benign in comparison.

 

[JPRouve]

Christianity is not restricted to the western world only. There are plenty of undeveloped countries in central America for example, however this area is largely peaceful - currently only Mexico and Columbia are involved in armed conflicts, and those are related to drug trafficking, not fueled by religion.

Those societies have been molded under the fist of Spain, they didn't evolved naturally and it wasn't peaceful.

 

[Eriku]

How fecked up was Afghanistan prior to Soviet and US tug-o-war?

How peaceful were Christians in the middle-ages?

Who repressed women the most out of Christians and Moslems in the middle-ages?

How much security, education and opportunity do people have in Moslem countries as opposed to Western countries, and how much of that can be laid at the west's doorstep?

Islam, and any other religion, does not exist in a vacuum, and we need not go further back than to the 50s and 60s to see burning crucifixes on lawns, negroes hanging off trees, and other shit that chills my blood. Heck, you can still find fools like Westboro Baptist Church, spewing odious bullshit that belongs in the dark ages, and that stems right from the religious texts themselves.

You can draw up a scale from 1-10 and ask this question, but surely there's no easy answer to be had? I'd say it's clear though that the majority of muslims, just like the majority of all other people, just want to live and let live.

 

[carvajal]

I think that needs reforms,the most important to separate religion from government/laws.
I expected an stronger response of most populated muslim countries regarding ISIS,I wonder if the religion is so implanted in the powers of government that they are afraid to admit the problem or raise the voice

 

[Attila]

Islam is 600 years younger, if anything they are involve faster than Christianity. You are basically asking a society to mature faster than any other, if we want them to evolve fast we need to help them, genuinely help them.

Yeah this is pretty much how I see it. The moslem world in the middle east is behind the west and work needs to be done in pushing them forward instead of supporting the likes of the Saudi royal family for oil deals and investment money.

I'm not sure if this is correct but I have read that a lot of the fundamentalism stems from Wahhabism(?) which is funded by the Saudi's. It seems obvious that we should be telling the Saudi's to reel it in or face sanctions or something.

 

[Attila]

I think that needs reforms,the most important to separate religion from government/laws.
I expected an stronger response of most populated muslim countries regarding ISIS,I wonder if the religion is so implanted in the powers of government that they are afraid to admit the problem or raise the voice

What kind of response did you expect? it's not just about the religion but it's the politics going on too...Turkey don't want the Kurds in power, Saudi don't mind ISIS going against Iran etc

 

[Mozza]

Is the conflict is Bahrain and Islamic conflict or a war against a dictator? Same question for Yeman, Egypt, Palestine and Syria

 

[Momochiru]

I don't know much about South American politics but how many of those countries have been invaded by a foreign power and/or had some sort of regime change in the past 10 years

That region has had its own fair share of instability, but the main difference is the separation of church from state - in those countries the church keeps away from politics, as far as I know. In Islamic theocracies on the other hand you have religious nuts directly dictating the politics.

 

[Momochiru]

How fecked up was Afghanistan prior to Soviet and US tug-o-war?

How peaceful were Christians in the middle-ages?

Who repressed women the most out of Christians and Moslems in the middle-ages?

How much security, education and opportunity do people have in Moslem countries as opposed to Western countries, and how much of that can be laid at the west's doorstep?

Islam, and any other religion, does not exist in a vacuum, and we need not go further back than to the 50s and 60s to see burning crucifixes on lawns, negroes hanging off trees, and other shit that chills my blood. Heck, you can still find fools like Westboro Baptist Church, spewing odious bullshit that belongs in the dark ages, and that stems right from the religious texts themselves.

You can draw up a scale from 1-10 and ask this question, but surely there's no easy answer to be had? I'd say it's clear though that the majority of muslims, just like the majority of all other people, just want to live and let live.

We are talking about 2015, though. If you go far enough in the past, you will find everyone's ancestors were killers and rapists. That's not a reason to justify barbaric behavior in the 21st century.

 

[Snow]

We are talking about 2015, though. If you go far enough in the past, you will find everyone's ancestors were killers and rapists. That's not a reason to justify barbaric behavior in the 21st century.

It's a fundamental social flaw that comes with religion and breeds because of ignorance. It doesn't matter that it's the 21st century. There were people 2000 years ago that were smarter and less ignorant than many people today. Our word in Icelandic for stupid is heimskur. It means 'a person that has never been away from home'. That's basically most people in the world and when you live inside a bubble it's not that difficult for a charismatic person with a great tool like religion in his hands to take advantage of.

 

[JPRouve]

That region has had its own fair share of instability, but the main difference is the separation of church from state - in those countries the church keeps away from politics, as far as I know. In Islamic theocracies on the other hand you have religious nuts directly dictating the politics.

If I'm not mistaken, that's only true in Arabia Saudi, Iran and Qatar. In the rest of the countries Islam is in the streets but not in the palace.