How much time is enough time to gauge Ole?

stevoc said:
The Moyes points per game and win ratio thing needs to die and not be brought up constantly as a stick to beat other managers with. He took over the runaway champions and a squad packed with talent and experience. So of course he was going to win most of his early games, tellingly though as that season went on he started picking up less and less points as it became more and more his team/tactics/strategy.
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No I do agree Moyes had more to work with. But it's interesting how he lost that squad completely within 6 months. No one wanted to play for him while for Old he has lesser players but all backing him.

Ole has been another level of shite for us in my opinion, just like Moyes has. I hope it changes, I never want a manager sacked I don't know why (!) But he really needs to improve as a manager. Feel bad for saying it because he's a legend of the club.
 
I said it last season back in March, but he needs at least 2-3 seasons and that was bearing in mind that I was expecting more transfers in than what had transpired, so that timescale hasn't progressed from then.

He's building something gradual, and he's giving the likes of Gomes, Greenwood, Garner, and Chong a chance to stake their claim in the team and squad for the long-term. We won't fully see his vision until either a) the kids break through in a big way this season; or more likely b) he makes those key signings in midfield and attack (specifically a 6 to replace Matic and a RW).

He's progressed the defence to a very good extent, so much so that our POTY last year is now arguably our weakest link back there. He now needs the opportunity to progress the midfield and attack. I'm more than happy to give him that time, even if it means we drop out of the Top 4 or Top 6.

People can say what they want about us being successful, I just want to go to the games and actually enjoy watching us play. Ole believes in the same fundamentals of the game as I do, but because he has a group of ill-fitting players, he can't fully implement it. This isn't like Pep who came in to the strongest squad in the league, spent close to £200m and only finished 4th because of sub-par FBs. We're in a much, much worse spot than City were back then.

Klopp is a more apt comparison and he was given the time he needed to build something. Ole needs that same support.
 
1-2 seasons. Having said that, I cannot see improvement before at least three months on the season. It will probably take more - much depends on injuries and the January window.
There are no quick fixes for the mess we re in
 
VP89 said:
No I do agree Moyes had more to work with. But it's interesting how he lost that squad completely within 6 months. No one wanted to play for him while for Old he has lesser players but all backing him.

Ole has been another level of shite for us in my opinion, just like Moyes has. I hope it changes, I never want a manager sacked I don't know why (!) But he really needs to improve as a manager. Feel bad for saying it because he's a legend of the club.
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Definitely mate he has to, i like what he's doing in terms of players in and out. I would have liked more attacking options but i'm hoping that was because we only want to sign players who want to be here as opposed to just getting bodies in.

If we're still in and around the top 4 at Xmas then he has to stay. If at some point during the season the form and results start improving then maybe he should stay regardless of where we finish. But we need to start seeing some improvement soon.
 
Gandalf said:
Very negative and I can't agree

Rochdale (H) Win
Arsenal (H) Win (we get Pogba and Martial back and they still have Luiz)
AZ Aalkmar (A) Draw
Newcastle (A) Win
Liverpool (H) Draw
Partizan (A) Win
Norwich (A) Win
Bournemouth (A) Draw
Partizan (H) Win
Brighton (H) Win
Sheffield (A) Win
Astana (A) Win​
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Have you been watching us recently? No chance at all we win all those games you predicting. The football is dire and there is no strategy or coherence to our play.
 
zenith said:
Absolutely agree with this post. Changing managers now will accomplish nothing.

Ole has overseen the departure of so much deadwood in one season and that in itself deserves credit. I for one would be inclined to give him another summer, if only to ensure that the likes of matic, young, lingard, baily, Rojo, Jones are also shown the door.

Quality signings made by him over the summer have also been a huge positive and it's something we have lacked over the years.

Hopefully pogba, martial and shaw are back soon because losing them is a hammer blow for an already depleted squad and the blame for that is squarely on Woodward's door. What I truly feel for that guy cannot be said on this forum.
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You do realise that apart from Matic and maybe Bailly, all the players you mentioned are rated by the manager and have been recently given new contracts?
 
If were realistic we have a squad thats not top 4 material, I reckon we will finish somewhere between 5 and 7th. Man City, Liverpool, Tottenham should be top 3 leaving Arsenal and maybe Leicester and Bournemouth fighting with us for 4th place.

I think over the season Arsenal's strikers will will score more than our attack so they should get 4th.

We need time and transfer windows with the
right recruitment, even then im not sure Ole has the coaching attributes and tactical knowledge to succeed. But if he does eventually get sacked hopefully he leaves the foundations and playing identity for the next manager.

I would give him this season and next season as he should be allowed to shape his squad and future transfers as he inherited a poor squad. What would of happened if we sacked Fergie when he was struggling in his early years.........
 
zenith said:
Ole has overseen the departure of so much deadwood in one season and that in itself deserves credit. I for one would be inclined to give him another summer, if only to ensure that the likes of matic, young, lingard, baily, Rojo, Jones and Mata are also shown the door.

.
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Lukaku, Sanchez, Herrera, Fellaini , Smalling weren't deadwood, they are better than the player we have right now and we are worse without them , it's proven with the results on the field. Clearing them out is literally only to reduce our wage bill.
 
Our line-up against West Ham was pretty much same level or below West Ham, so that's the material Ole has to work with for a majority of his games.

Id say give him to the end of this season, and keep an eye on Poch's situation.
 
SATA said:
If Poch is available at the end of the season, i’ll say we have to get him before anyone does and if that means ditching Ole, so be it. Poch is the only manager for me that has the capability to build this squad, I don’t see anyone else who is without a club to do so, at least not for now
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Ole deserves at least three years in total to give the club and team stability as well as to have a real shot at building a Manchester United team again that is capable of challenging for the title and other silverware. It was unpleasant seeing the reality of how thin the squad/team looked against West Ham but injuries did United's chances in as much as certain lacks in the way the team plays.

I doubt things would be the same if we had landed Sancho and another very good player. Ole also needs a better coaching staff as has been said on another thread by posters there. I think McKenna should be given more time and Phelan despite what some point out as his limitations, has experience and connections with United's most successful period ever. Carrick needs to go and learn elsewhere and a sophisticated coach with a European/South American background should come in.

I really don't see what Pochettino could do much better with our present players. He also has won exactly zilch in terms of silverware with Spurs in the Premier League and Europe despite Spurs having some very good players and playing good football.
 
Pros:
Ole has identified the deadwood and done his best to ship them out. Consisted of big-name players.
He has made 3 good signings. They have been our best 3 players this season.

Cons:
Playing Mata and or Lingard when Gomes is ready to play.
Makes subs anywhere from 15-30 minutes too late.
 
Two more years. The owner wan't invest properly, so we will need 2 more summer windows. It sucks.
 
beingshe7don said:
Can you explain to me why Ole's stats looks like this since he took over as permanent manager
https://www.transfermarkt.us/ole-gu...d/985/datum_zu/2019-03-28/datum_ab/0000-00-00

17 matches managed, 5 wins, 8 losses, 4 draws which equates to 29.4% win ratio

Let's look at Van Gaal and Mourinho while they were United managers

Van Gaal
103 matches managed, 54 wins, 25 losses, 24 draws which equates to 52.4% win ratio

Mourinho
141 matches managed, 84 wins, 29 losses, 31 draws which equates to 59.5% win ratio

Now, in my opinion, I don't think Van Gaal and Mourinho were the solutions to take our team forward and I'm glad they were sacked. Can you explain to me why does Ole get the benefit? just because he was a legend? He's playing crappy football just like Jose.... So I don't understand what all is he bringing to the table?

This is a management issue! If we are struggling to beat the likes of West Ham and Southampton with the given squad, I think it's a management issue.
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Ole has managed 36 competitive games as United manager, 19 of which were wins, so in fact he has a win percentage of 53% and has only lost 10 games which is a loss rate of 28%.

I dont know why transfermarkt only shows stats from March.
 
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beingshe7don said:
Can you explain to me why Ole's stats looks like this since he took over as permanent manager
https://www.transfermarkt.us/ole-gu...d/985/datum_zu/2019-03-28/datum_ab/0000-00-00

17 matches managed, 5 wins, 8 losses, 4 draws which equates to 29.4% win ratio

Let's look at Van Gaal and Mourinho while they were United managers

Van Gaal
103 matches managed, 54 wins, 25 losses, 24 draws which equates to 52.4% win ratio

Mourinho
141 matches managed, 84 wins, 29 losses, 31 draws which equates to 59.5% win ratio

Now, in my opinion, I don't think Van Gaal and Mourinho were the solutions to take our team forward and I'm glad they were sacked. Can you explain to me why does Ole get the benefit? just because he was a legend? He's playing crappy football just like Jose.... So I don't understand what all is he bringing to the table?

This is a management issue! If we are struggling to beat the likes of West Ham and Southampton with the given squad, I think it's a management issue.
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Stop this permanent manager nonsense he took over in December last year. Its disingenuous and undermines any evaluation of Solskjaers time as United manager.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ole...erein_id=985&liga=&wettbewerb_id=&trainer_id=
 
Until February/March next season.

Gives him another 3 windows. If the side is still struggling then, fans need to start asking questions
 
beingshe7don said:
I've been hearing all the Ole sympathizers mention that he needs time and he's done such a great job getting rid of the deadwood (with the likes of Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini, Smalling) and so on. But is that all what's required to succeed as manager of this club? I mean if we look back at our tactics, we essentially have progressed from the Jose style of play where we sit back and try to counter attack. This is by no means a knee-jerk reactionary post. I mean I can admit that Ole wasn't given the resources BUT tactically speaking, I haven't seen anything for us to believe that Ole has what it takes to succeed at United. The first three months of his OT career was incredible but since his permanency, he's managed to have a 20% win percentage after today's defeat to West Ham.

Just wanted to ask the CAF, how long would each of you give him till you decide to state that Ole just isn't the right man to lead United (despite him being a United legend and his great intentions)?
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1 full season...We either have to finish in the top 4 this season(or win the EL)....Or there must be clear,discernible improvement in our style and quality of play that can atleast give us the hope that things are going in the right direction.If things remain like this then he should be sacked at the end of the season,as simple as that...
 
I am pro-OGS but I ll be the first to admit that he results haven't been good enough.

But - as I have said Before, this season was never gonna be great. We are 2-3 players short going forward - but I still Believe if we had one player with the same goalscoring ability as Aubameyang we would probably be level on Points with City.

People say we are miles away from the best - and we are yes - but if Woodward (and that is a big if) can get us one very good striker, and one creative midfielder…..

...and we suddenly have this team: DDG, Shaw, Maguire, VL, AWB - McTominay, (someone), Pogba - James/Rashford, (someone), James/Martial

Then we have a very good team - if OGS still can't make it work - he is in trouble. But regardless of who is in charge - we need those players in. And the board NEEDS to get at least one of them in january.
 
When i read some of the posts in here, it's crazy how many football expert we have here. Saying how Ole should have played this team or that team. The funny thing is, each time the cafe was happy with a team in the match day squad, more often than not the team ended up losing or drawing. it's almost as if, we don't have the whole picture and we don't know how training is to be able to make a considered decision.
 
2 more windows January and next Summer is enough time for the rebuild if they back Ole. Then next season we should demand results or he goes.
 
He has had enough time for people to 'guage' him. I don't need more time, because I can see how that team is being managed under his tenure. It lacks confidence, direction, strategy. And I do not feel he can command the absolute respect of the players. Only they (the team, staff etc know...) but that's what I sense, but could be wrong. Does he inspire that team? I cannot see it, and it's a shame.

But he has to be given more time, and see this through. He will get this season, but he has to show progress. If we have an absolute disaster, lower mid-table stuff, then it will be a problem for the club.
 
noodlehair said:
I mean, it's this and the Palace game now. We can't have another performance like that because then the only reasonable conclusion to come to is that Ole isn't capable of stamping it out or isn't even aware how poor it is.

Hed have actually given me a lot more confidence if he'd hauled Matic off at half time or changed something after 30 minutes. Even if it hadn't worked, it would at least send a message that the team isn't doing what he is asking it to and he isn't happy to just accept it. At the moment all you can do is speculate as to why we played so abjectly because we seem to just plod along with it through thr game as if it IS part of the plan.
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Yeah, i agree were were a goal down and playing pretty shit football but still the same team came out at half time?

He needs to be alot more assertive.
 
Bestietom said:
2 more windows January and next Summer is enough time for the rebuild if they back Ole. Then next season we should demand results or he goes.
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I agree with this. I hope now some of the dead wood is cleared we can sign some quality in the next 2 windows. One of the biggest problems we have had is bad signings. Oles signings so far look excellent. A striker and a midfielder (maybe 2) and things are looking up. I personally hope the striker is Werner.
 
Bestietom said:
2 more windows January and next Summer is enough time for the rebuild if they back Ole. Then next season we should demand results or he goes.
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This is a fairly sensible approach and I agree with it ... almost.

If the January window is a success and the second half of the season has some quality and direction about it then yes, I agree with you. If,however, he brings in new players in January and the second half of the season is still resembling our current state then why would you give him another window?

I'm all for Ole, I really, really hope he can turn this around but there would be no point stubbornly sticking with him without any signs of Utd heading in the right direction. I am beginning to think the job is too big for him, again, I really hope I'm proved wrong. 20le!
 
Don't shoot me but he should be out the door already.

I read since his purple patch as caretaker bust, you guys are 19 points from 19 games or something.
I don't care how bad your squad is that's a joke. Honestly you've got a midtable squad with 4 class players when everyone is fit and your starting 11 is probably top 4.

19 from 19 would get a manager sacked at most clubs nevermind United. Clearly out of his depth.
 
The owners need to back him in both this upcoming January transfer window as well as the summer window. Signings of James, AWB and Maguire have been good and a step in the right direction. The problem is we still have so many average players in key positions in the starting 11 and that will take the next 2 windows to strengthen on. But he needs the financial backing of the club.
 
i hate this kind of belief that just because he is giving younger players, and some of them considering he still hasn't really given a few a shot to replace players that are obviously past it like mata or matic, he automatically gets a pass for seemingly being a poor manager. You could have a manager who is blooding in youngsters while still trying to instill a way of playing. Shit just look back at LVG. You could see him giving youngsters a chance while still bringing in a definitive system. Yes it was a boring ass system it seemed, but you could clearly see it. Sometimes it isn't a black and white issue and there are various levels. Yes, we as a club can be allowing youngsters a chance to play some minutes, but at the same time there should be something on the field showing that our coaches are doing something. If you are a manager at one of the top clubs in the world, i should be able to see what system you want to implement, regardless of the players you have at your disposal. The only thing that should change is the effectiveness of it as you gradually bring in players that are better suited to what you want to see on the field.
 
Woodward jumped the gun, when giving him the job! He should have waited at least until May. He didn't .h backed him at transfers but not all the way?
Not bringing in a striker and a midfielder was big errors, Lukaku and Herrera going not replacing them.

Expecting a 17yr old to step up is not fair on him. Oles got till January and he's out. He was Woodwards cheap fix that he thought might work, so far it hasn't. Managers are not being backed properly.

When the next manager comes in he's getting the same problems the rest have faced. Oles trying to make the squad younger which is ok, but if it weakens the side it is not. To many young ones are not good enough, along with the experienced ones who are not good enough iether. Mata , Matic had been top players, but at end of there runs at OT.
Matic has to go and another top class CM brought in. Mata just signed a deal so he has to stay unless we can move him on in Jan. Big big issues to be sorted .
 
The owners are not committed to rebuilding the club. The net transfer expenditure for this season is £65,500,000. But the club let their most productive midfielder go for nothing. His value must be subtracted from the transfer expenditure. If we conservatively value Herrera at £40,000,000, that means the rebuilding effort totaled a minuscule £25,500,000. That is maintaining the status quo for a sixth place team.

Blaming Ole for the transfers is misguided. José is an internationally renowned manager. He stated his job title should be changed from manager to coach because he had no input over the transfers. If this man with his lengthy CV can't exert control over transfers, there is zero chance that the inexperienced Ole can put his foot down.

Ole has done a pretty decent job integrating the three transfers one of whom was never expected to be anything more than a bit player. And he has promoted McTominay from within. Consensus MOM for the last game United won which he bossed. But there is only so much he can do when the club is not committed to rebuild and they had given him a team with only two proven central midfielders/#10. Is there a club in the Championship, much less the Premier League, with only two proven central midfielders? Ole ends up playing players out of position like Pobga or fielding the molasses lineup with Matic and Mata to make up for the gaping midfield hole.

My fear is asset stripping. The same kind of folks like the Glazers that engage in leveraged buyouts also do asset stripping enriching themselves at the expense of their company's assets. When there is just a shell left, they sell. Certainly, if the club continues to finish sixth or worse, its international value will diminish. But that is what will happen if they continue their current course of maintaining the status quo.

Are the Glazer's setting up to sell?
 
Moyes just froze on the big stage and not wanting to make mistakes had us playing lifeless football.

LVG and Mou were too inflexible to make it work. My way or no way.

Ole seems to be getting a lot of credit for shaking things up since he's came in. Sorry but any one of us could of came in and identify players needed culling but his main error there was not insisting on replacements for them. Bruno and Ben Yedder for less than 100m and job done until the next window. He's getting praise for signing AWB and Maquire. Hardly genius management recruiting 2 of the best players available in the PL for their positions. He would never of heard of James if it wasn't for Giggs.

He keeps talking about his vision but what actually is it? Tactically useless, haven't a clue what they do on the training ground but it's not football related, his awareness during games to tweak what needs tweaking is zero, his substitutions are terrible, his lineups (even if we have injuries) are terrible. His only redeeming feature is he has a nice smile.

I really feel for Ole. He was offered his dream job, which any of us would of taken but he must of realised he doesn't actually have the first clue when it came to top level football but it doesn't matter how bad it gets before he's gone I won't be putting the blame on him.

If it doesn't improve before Xmas he has to go. There's no way the Glazers will be giving him a large transfer kitty on the hope that miracles happen. It's Ed who's dug a big hole for himself and it will be interesting to see how he gets himself out of it.
 
Kemizee said:
Have you been watching us recently? No chance at all we win all those games you predicting. The football is dire and there is no strategy or coherence to our play.
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Exactly. You'd think the poster have not really been watching us play this season. We could very well lose to the likes of Newcastle and Sheffield, as well as our tricky European games.
 
I know its a huge rebuilding job etc etc etc but why on earth are people talking about giving him three seasons? We havent won a league game away from home in what was it February....isnt that before he was even the permanent manager?
That really is simply unacceptable for pretty much any club, let alone the biggest in the country. He said himself he wouldnt be signing more than 4 players or five I think in the summer gone, whether that was his thoughts or from higher up, that was never going to be enough and we only signed three, one of them a youngster as a long term project. We still need to clear out a good 5/6 players and we still need to sign another 4/5 players, and talk of phases is nonsense when such small changes are made, NO progress is really made. We have an improved defence and a weakened attack and midfield, it is no surprise we are just not creating barely anything.
I think Ole has the right ideas of where he wants to go, but it smacks of romantic nostalgia not backed up by the right ability tactically, man magament wise etc etc, sorry I think if we continue as currently he should be gone by Christmas and rightly so
 
Sterling Archer said:
I wanted it to work. But fact is..

You can't win anything with kids.

If we look back to that famous side that lost to Villa, it still had Steve Bruce, Keane, Gary Pallister, Irwin, Sharpe, Schmeicall, May and of course Eric Cantona.

THAT side won with the kids. To think the likes of Young, Lingard, Mata even with Pogba and Maguire is enough to help this current batch along it's more than unrealistic. It's completely irresponsible of the manager, coaching staff and board.
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@dev1l looks like Gary Neville shared a similar sentiment.

From his recent interview and podcast:

"I've said many times that Alan Hansen was right, you don't win anything with kids.

"The Class of '92 didn't win that Premier League title. We had Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister, Roy Keane, Eric Cantona, Brian McClair and Peter Schmeichel. We had world-class performers and two of the best centre backs ever.

Keane was the most inspirational captain and leader, Cantona was world-class, Schmeichel was the best in the world and Dennis Irwin was brilliant.

They pulled us through it. If the Class of '92 had gone into this team, we would have had no chance
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