How good is Kevin De Bruyne?

[Oranges038]

Would KDB have the same impact with us? Or is it all about what players your playing with and the system your playing in. I think I’d still prefer Bruno if I’m being honest, he’s more of a leader and puts up better numbers.

Of course he would, he is an awesome footballer, his quality on the ball and his passing and vision is probably the best in the world. The way he passes the ball the receiver doesn't even have to think about what to do with it, that's what makes his passing so good. Especially in and around the box he makes the strikers mind up for them with his passing.

He is much better than Bruno, Bruno wouldn't get in very many teams ahead of him.

 

[Beans]

If he didn't play for City he'd probably be my favorite player. Pass control is as good as it gets, like Riquelme with mobility.

 

[mctrials23]

Anyone who thinks KdB isn't easily one of the best players in the world is mad. I don't think there is a side in the world where he wouldn't be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Bruno doesn't even come close to his level.

 

[lex talionis]

If your doing an all time PL 11 I think he's in the midfield beside Keane and Scholes.

This. KDB has swept Lampard and Gerrard aside and stands with Keane and Scholes.

 

[Sayan Roy]

He is good. But I would even take Gareth Barry over KDB.

 

[General_Elegancia]

Would KDB have the same impact with us? Or is it all about what players your playing with and the system your playing in. I think I’d still prefer Bruno if I’m being honest, he’s more of a leader and puts up better numbers.

Yes, and yes, he would put an amazing impact on United. His football intelligence is almost unmatched by anyone in EPL at this moment. He's great at both a possession-based system like his current team and a counter-attacking system like Belgium or France. The most important thing that separates KDB from Bruno or any attacking midfielders in the league is called decision-making, KDB's decision-making is on god-level due to his phenomenal football IQ. A lot of times, Bruno would make some dumb or silly passes or sometimes he steps up his tempo way too fast which can be made a lot of inaccuracy risky passes. That doesn't mean KDB hasn't made any risky passes or hasn't made any turnovers, he makes it a lot of times too but he's far superior to Fernandes in this regard.

I doubt that KDB can put Fernandes's number, with less turnover and better decision making especially in Ole's era( counter-attacking oriented), the era when Ole gave enormous freedom to Bruno Fernandes, especially in the transition approach. KDB also has a better weight of passes both short passing and long passing, which is very accommodating to Ole's tactics or ETH's transition(some games like against Arsenal). Anyway, both prefer different tempos and I don't think both have the same style at all.

 

[Hammondo]

Suppose it depends how you define dominate. To give a couple other examples:

Gerrard scored 27 goals in 57 European games from 2004 to 2009, as the primary force in winning 1 CL, reaching another final, and taking Chelsea to the wire in 08 and 09.

Fabregas controlled big CL games from the age of 18 - there weren’t many European games he didn’t dictate when at Arsenal.

I think Gerrard is the closest one with the 2005 title, Arsenal were never close to winning, never a big threat, Barce destroyed them.

 

[Hammondo]

The definition of midfield domination has changed a lot since Xavi & Iniesta showed the world how it’s done — I’d probably say that only a handful of midfields ever reached even something comparable. I wouldn’t describe Modrić - Kroos - Casemiro midfield as a dominating one simply because they allow others to play the game even though they’re insanely important in Real’s European domination.

If we don’t count that extreme level of dominance then United midfield 4 of Giggs - Keane - Scholes - Beckham or that Scholes - Carrick +1 (Hargreaves/Fletcher/Park) did pretty well and so did Chelsea’s Makélélé - Essien - Lampard (and variants).

I think Real dominated when they were young, gave it up on recent years like against Liverpool.

I don't think we ever dominated the CL, I think very very few teams have. Real and Barce lineups spring to mind.

 

[Hammondo]

I remember a midfield of Scholes and Carrick setting records as they controlled midfields against Europes best as we reached 3 finals in 4 years, as an example.
I remember Kante being out of this world as Chelsea comfortably won the CL a few years ago as KDB was brought off early in the final against him (no fault of his own)
Lampard in 08 scored the late winner in the quarters, I think the winning pen in the semi final and equaliser in the final. Clutch moments. The season he won it he was assisting and scoring in almost every knockout game he was simply outstanding in that season.
When we got to the final at Wembley Giggs had scored or assisted in every knockout game including the final from the midfield position. Then there’s the Gerrard Liverpool nightmare 2 finals in 3 years, 3 semis in 4 when he was outstanding.
That is missing off KDB cv. Not just one season but he really needs multiple of them with the talent he has and with the team he plays in.

Scholes and Carrick never dominated Barcelona but they got dominated by Barcelona.
Chelsea in 2021 was in no way dominant, they were very defensive and gave up the midfield. The opposite of dominant.
2012 Chelsea Cl was also very defensive, gave up the midfield because they knew they couldn't win it.
Gerrard might have dominated 2005, I think that is closest.
Barcelona absolutely destroyed us that CL, the Barcelona midfield dominated the CL at that time, and they are one of the few examples of players who did.

 

[harms]

Gerrard might have dominated 2005, I think that is closest

Absolutely not
They’ve grinder out results against the run of play.

Scholes and Carrick never dominated Barcelona but they got dominated by Barcelona.

No one dominated peak Barcelona (Chelsea were probably closest in 08/09) and they obviously haven’t, even in 07/08 it was a containment job.

Bayern in 12/13 absolutely dominated though in a way that no English team did, thinking of it.

 

[cyberman]

Scholes and Carrick never dominated Barcelona but they got dominated by Barcelona.
Chelsea in 2021 was in no way dominant, they were very defensive and gave up the midfield. The opposite of dominant.
2012 Chelsea Cl was also very defensive, gave up the midfield because they knew they couldn't win it.
Gerrard might have dominated 2005, I think that is closest.
Barcelona absolutely destroyed us that CL, the Barcelona midfield dominated the CL at that time, and they are one of the few examples of players who did.

They dont have to win every game to dominate nor did Barca under Pep dominate every game. That United team set records for a reason. Nearly two years unbeaten in Europe until the Rome final for feck sake!
What ever excuse is made they were levels above KDB CL performances.
Edit you need to look back at Chelsea’s CL winning run and research Lampards impact in every game. I just don’t think you remember it correctly

 

[General_Elegancia]

Chelsea in 2021 was in no way dominant, they were very defensive and gave up the midfield.

Although Chelsea 2021 was a bit defensive-oriented. I think it's far from gave up in the midfield area, their midfield, especially in UCL, looked very solid, and hard to break down due to Kante's performances in UCL's run and as a unit, I would say they worked well.

 

[That_Bloke]

I think he’s not just the best player I’ve ever seen but perhaps the best player football has ever seen, Messi goes to bed at night wishing he had the career de Bruyne did. Pele’s dying moments will just be reminiscing on how fine a career de Bruyne had. When he retires RedCafe will wear shirts in his honour, as will most United fans, he’s more loved in our fanbase than Charlton, Best and Law combined and rightfully so IMO.

 

[cyberman]

Although Chelsea 2021 was a bit defensive-oriented. I think it's far from gave up in the midfield area, their midfield, especially in UCL, looked very solid, and hard to break down due to Kante's performances in UCL's run and as a unit, I would say they worked well.

They dominated Madrids midfield home and away.

 

[That_Bloke]

Yes, and yes, he would put an amazing impact on United. His football intelligence is almost unmatched by anyone in EPL at this moment. He's great at both a possession-based system like his current team and a counter-attacking system like Belgium or France. The most important thing that separates KDB from Bruno or any attacking midfielders in the league is called decision-making, KDB's decision-making is on god-level due to his phenomenal football IQ. A lot of times, Bruno would make some dumb or silly passes or sometimes he steps up his tempo way too fast which can be made a lot of inaccuracy risky passes. That doesn't mean KDB hasn't made any risky passes or hasn't made any turnovers, he makes it a lot of times too but he's far superior to Fernandes in this regard.

I doubt that KDB can put Fernandes's number, with less turnover and better decision making especially in Ole's era( counter-attacking oriented), the era when Ole gave enormous freedom to Bruno Fernandes, especially in the transition approach. KDB also has a better weight of passes both short passing and long passing, which is very accommodating to Ole's tactics or ETH's transition(some games like against Arsenal). Anyway, both prefer different tempos and I don't think both have the same style at all.

Fernandes and De Bruyne shouldn't be put in the same sentence full stop. Any comparison between the two is downright silly as they're absolutely not on the same level. De Bruyne is one of the best midfielders to ever walk a PL pitch and as you said, his football IQ is off the charts with the pass quality to go with. He still misses an international trophy, be it with his club or national team, to climb up to the next tier. World class player, but still not quite legend stuff.

 

[Oly Francis]

Although Chelsea 2021 was a bit defensive-oriented. I think it's far from gave up in the midfield area, their midfield, especially in UCL, looked very solid, and hard to break down due to Kante's performances in UCL's run and as a unit, I would say they worked well.

Yeah, I'd say that being the only player in the history of the CL being named player of the game in both semi final games and in the final is the definition of domination.

 

[Teja]

Hard to separate a player from his team.. KdB plays for one of the best club sides in the world so it's hard to compare him to someone like Gerrard who almost singlehandedly carried Pool.

I think Gerrard in KdB's place will do equally well if not better.

 

[Kag]

Well, I’m not sure I would have said as good as most people in here seem to think he is. I’m actually a bit taken aback by just how highly rated he is. I’ve zoned in and out of wider football in recent years, largely due to getting older and us being a bit shite, but I’d have argued that Silva was better, more important to the fundamentals of City success, and frankly, just better to watch via the eye test. Football opinions, ay?

 

[Hammondo]

They dont have to win every game to dominate nor did Barca under Pep dominate every game. That United team set records for a reason. Nearly two years unbeaten in Europe until the Rome final for feck sake!
What ever excuse is made they were levels above KDB CL performances.
Edit you need to look back at Chelsea’s CL winning run and research Lampards impact in every game. I just don’t think you remember it correctly

Oh yea definitely better than kdb cl performances, no doubt.

Dominant? Nah, thats really rare. Chelseas cl with lampard was parking the bus a lot.

 

[DJ Jeff]

It detracts from the narrative, sure, but I'm struggling with the concept that compared to another player he ranks less because he had better players that covered for him when he was injured. I mean, I could make a similar argument for Gerrard vs Keane (based on their surrounding teammates) and I'd be laughed out the forum.

Not that it's important in the grand scheme of things (me struggling with that post)

I'd be interested to see you argue that Gerrard was ever covered by other good players..

 

[Red the Bear]

I think Gerrard is the closest one with the 2005 title, Arsenal were never close to winning, never a big threat, Barce destroyed them.

I mean not really , the early red card fecked them over and they got rather unlucky in the end, not complaints though.

 

[Red the Bear]

Absolutely not
They’ve grinder out results against the run of play.


No one dominated peak Barcelona (Chelsea were probably closest in 08/09) and they obviously haven’t, even in 07/08 it was a containment job.

Bayern in 12/13 absolutely dominated though in a way that no English team did, thinking of it.

To be honest I think they're performance in 2008/9 gets a tad over rated due to their posthumously earned reputation, their performance that year was from from the highs of 2011 which one might expect, their affair with Chelsea's was an cagey one (which they should have lost by the way) and the final in which everyone remember us as being dominated ended up with us sharing 49 perception of the possession despite being weakened in the middle due to losing fletcher, far from a dominating performance huh?

In fact they probably were a better team in 2010 than they were the year before.

2011 on the other hand is another topic, now that was total domination (that weird game with arsenal aside).

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

He's been a top 5 player in the world for the last decade. Chelsea selling him to placate Mourinho is probably the single worst transfer decision any club has made in the last 30 years, especially as KdB still had 3.5 years left on his deal when Chelsea sold him for something like €18m.

 

[Lay]

I mean not ready, the early red card fecked them over and they got rather unlucky in the end, not complaints though.

theyd have been 1-0 down if they didn’t get a man sent off though. I think Barca would have carved them open if Arsenal had to attack

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Hard to separate a player from his team.. KdB plays for one of the best club sides in the world so it's hard to compare him to someone like Gerrard who almost singlehandedly carried Pool.

I think Gerrard in KdB's place will do equally well if not better.

Even peak Gerrard was several levels below KdB. Although Gerrard's shameless diving is on another level from KdB too.

 

[harms]

I'd be interested to see you argue that Gerrard was ever covered by other good players..

I think he means the opposite — that Gerrard played with worse teammates hence he is better than Keane by that logic (highlighting the shortcomings of this logical fallacy).

Although Gerrard was covered by good players in a way — that Alonso - Mascherano base really allowed him to flourish without worrying too much about his lack of positional discipline.

 

[SalfordRed18]

I rate him but he's a slight level below xavi, iniesta and modric.

Tbf to him, probably just because of what those guys won.

 

[SalfordRed18]

And also, I do actually think Yaya Toure was better than KDB.

 

[Skills]

How would people compare him to Ozil in just the following 2 categories:

- Vision
- Passing ability

 

[erikcred]

Even peak Gerrard was several levels below KdB. Although Gerrard's shameless diving is on another level from KdB too.

"Several levels below" is quite harsh. Gerrard turned up in big matches repeatedly. That's missing from KDB's CV. Something like the 05 CL final or 06 FA cup final.

I mean, forget cup finals. He still can't drag City to a win at Anfield with crowds. A place where Leeds mauled them.

 

[Canagel]

Don't think that's a fair reflection of his international career. In the 2018 World Cup he had a huge performance against Brazil in the quarter final. Across the tournament, the Guardian gave him the 3rd highest average player rating (behind Modric and Hazard) of any of the teams who reached the knockout stages. At Euro 2020 he came in injured, rescued Begium with a ridiculous performance against Denmark, had another good showing in his next game, and then was played with a new injury against Italy where he eventually ran out of steam.

Internationally I think the difference between him and some of the other great 8/10 types like Zidane or Breitner is they could be brilliant, then have a quiet game, but due to the superior overall strength of their team-mates they could still progress to the next game. And clearly an international trophy will make a big difference to De Bruyne's legacy in the same way as it has enhanced many of his peers.

He scored a great goal against Brazil but was not on the level of Hazard. In the group Hazard and Lukaku were the best players. And when it mattered against France in the Semi he was nowhere.

This isnt even a dig, its exactly what happened. In the biggest games, the do or die games hes been objectively speaking one of the worst players on the pitch whereas for City he usually makes the difference in the big PL games.

He was also missing in the Nations league semi finals last year. The Euro game against Italy was decisive. When the pressure is on his teammates have done a better job than him. Zidane saved his best for these games, the legacy defining games and carried his team through them, you cant really compare KDB to him.

The CL has been similar too. awful in the Lyon game in the covid season, awful in the CL final (Kante had bossed him until his injury), missing in the 2nd leg vs Real Madrid..

 

[iHicksy]

KDB is the best midfielder in the world and for me he gets into my prem all time XI in a midfield three with keane and Scholes.

I watch all of city games (mainly because of fantasy football) and I think there are a few things that are being overlooked that need to enter the conversation. For one, the guy can cross like Beckham and Pass like Scholes. This is no exaggeration, he operates in tight spaces, can play every type of pass you can think of. Score from range and his movement is fantastic. But he can also play in a midfield 2, 3 across the front 3 or as a false 9. And he's the best in those positions for city when he does (excluding Haaland as a 9).

He's pretty much the complete midfielder and he does it consistently. His average level is an 8 out of 10. I think there are others who have had insane peaks as midfielders where they absolutely dominated games in a different manner (e.g Toure, Gerrard) but those players never maintained KDB's insane consistency or were as highly skilled in as many aspects of the game.

 

[Red the Bear]

theyd have been 1-0 down if they didn’t get a man sent off though. I think Barca would have carved them open if Arsenal had to attack

Perhaps, but it was certainly a rough game for barca either way, and that wasn't peak arsenal either.

 

[Red the Bear]

How would people compare him to Ozil in just the following 2 categories:

- Vision
- Passing ability

Oil was better in both regards but kdb is the better player over all I say, just different attributes, the way he carries the ball is out of this world.

 

[WeePat]

PL legend. He's a brief dips here and there, but he's been remarkably consistent for 7 years in this league now. Rarely lets his level drop for more than short period. Ridiculous player.

 

[Synco]

How would people compare him to Ozil in just the following 2 categories:

- Vision
- Passing ability

I think their vision and passing ability reflects their difference as player types - KDB more of an #8/#10, and elite in every aspect of playmaking including from deep, Özil more of a final third specialist.

Peak Özil (early to mid 2010s) was really special in traffic close to the box, and (at least from memory) I'd probably give him the edge there. But KDB is world class at it too and certainly better at everything else. What stands out for both is their insane productivity in chance creation.

 

[Gio]

He scored a great goal against Brazil but was not on the level of Hazard. In the group Hazard and Lukaku were the best players. And when it mattered against France in the Semi he was nowhere.

This isnt even a dig, its exactly what happened. In the biggest games, the do or die games hes been objectively speaking one of the worst players on the pitch whereas for City he usually makes the difference in the big PL games.

He was also missing in the Nations league semi finals last year. The Euro game against Italy was decisive. When the pressure is on his teammates have done a better job than him. Zidane saved his best for these games, the legacy defining games and carried his team through them, you cant really compare KDB to him.

The CL has been similar too. awful in the Lyon game in the covid season, awful in the CL final (Kante had bossed him until his injury), missing in the 2nd leg vs Real Madrid..

I think it's the opposite. When he has a quieter game, Belgium or City exit because of failiings elsewhere. Nobody else stepped up in the France or Italy games in 2018 and 2021 (a stronger nation might have had the luxury of a goal from elsewhere or a clean sheet at the back). Soft goals were conceded and it was basically KDB or bust going forwards (agree with your Hazard point against Brazil though). That's not a sustainable strategy.

If you look at his knockout stages record with City in recent years:

21/22
QF - 0-0 and 1-0 v Atletico - scores the only goal of the tie
SF - 4-3 and 1-3 v Real - 1 goal and 1 assist as he dominates the first leg. City exit because they fold like a pack of cards and lack the maturity defensively and failing to take the right decisions elsewhere on the park.

20/21
QF - 4-2 on agg v Dortmund - scores in the opening tie, key part of an attack that creates plenty over both legs
SF - 2-1 and 2-0 v PSG - City are losing in Paris, when he scores and turns the tie on its head.
Final - gets injured. City lose because Pep brain-farts and doesn't play a DM, with Chelsea's goal coming from that big cavernous space where a DM would have been.

19/20
QF - 2-1 and 2-1 v Real - 1 goal and 1 assist in the Bernabeu, almost single-handedly knocks out Real
SF - 1-3 v Lyon - scores City's only goal. City exit as Pep brain-farts and plays a 3-5-2, with the game decided by Ederson and his defence making huge mistakes

18/19
QF - 0-1 and 4-3 v Spurs - injured for City's defeat in the first leg (no surprise they struggle in his absence). Has 3 assists in the 2nd leg, but City exit because of a messy defence and Aguero's missed first leg penalty

There's a stronger case for him and City not delivering if we go back into the mid 2010s, but he's impressed for me during the last four years on the biggest stages of the club game.

 

[Luffy]

De Bruyne is slightly less good than Zidane, but the World Cup exits were all the fault of the coaches. Between them they cannot micro manage a defence into being impassable. Whenever I see Belgium lose a competitive match, and I see Martinez fume as a result, and trying to hide his anger, I feel that is a bit rich. That's because this coach is the major reason for the Belgium squad to fail again and again. He will never get it as good. Going from Swansea to World Cup stardom made him blind to his shortcomings. Martinez is the luckiest coach in Europe. Better men than him have been sacked but he keeps staying where he is.

 

[Morty_]

About as good as any midfielder that has ever played in the premier league i'd say.

 

[BlueMoonOutcast]

Interesting someone brought up Ozil, can you imagine KDB playing with a 27 year old Ronaldo?

Sorry if it's off topic but I just spent a minute dreaming about that.