How good is Kevin De Bruyne?

adexkola said:
Could you expound on the bolded
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I'd argue 2018.

For me, people keep shifting the goalposts when it comes to him. He's achieved more team wise than most premier league midfielders and all that aren't United players.The funny thing about these discussions is how massive a role nostalgia and him playing for a club with such a limited fanbase actually hurts him. He's a better talent than his midfield contemporaries and now has the longevity and consistency to be regarded as greater in my opinion. He's more impactful to his team than the likes of Scholes and Silva were, and is simply more productive and consistent than either Lampard or Gerrard.

People forget that hes been world class at City since 2016-2017. this would be his 7th season of being in that realm. Henry, who is the league greatest player had a similar peak length.
 
From the guy who used to be seen as lazy with a bad attitude that chelsea didn’t want to the best midfielder PL has seen, he’s a 10/10 player.
 
It just feels wrong to rank him alongside the all time greats but his sheer quality is undeniable.
 
Great PL player but not an all timer. Gone missing far too many times in Europe and International tournaments to be classified as one.

Still goes down as a Legendary figure for his club and a great PL player (maybe even top 5) but not as a all timer because his dominance in the PL and style of play never translated over to continental football.
 
tjb said:
I'd argue 2018.

For me, people keep shifting the goalposts when it comes to him. He's achieved more team wise than most premier league midfielders and all that aren't United players.The funny thing about these discussions is how massive a role nostalgia and him playing for a club with such a limited fanbase actually hurts him. He's a better talent than his midfield contemporaries and now has the longevity and consistency to be regarded as greater in my opinion. He's more impactful to his team than the likes of Scholes and Silva were, and is simply more productive and consistent than either Lampard or Gerrard.

People forget that hes been world class at City since 2016-2017. this would be his 7th season of being in that realm. Henry, who is the league greatest player had a similar peak length.
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Yeah, kinda valid points… but he’s playing for a team that doesn’t really suffer that much when he’s not there. Obviously he improves them. I’d argue that City were a noticeably worse team when Silva didn’t play. I wouldn’t say the same when KdB isn’t on the pitch. Could just be my perception though.
 
Canagel said:
Great PL player but not an all timer. Gone missing far too many times in Europe and International tournaments to be classified as one.

Still goes down as a Legendary figure for his club and a great PL player (maybe even top 5) but not as a all timer because his dominance in the PL and style of play never translated over to continental football.
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CL and International performances are irrelevant to his ranking as a PL player though?…

Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard were nowhere near as good at international level as de Bruyne
 
In terms of Premier League I’d say that he’s certainly the outstanding attacking/playmaking midfielder in its history. Even ahead of Scholes whom I love dearly or someone like Lampard (the stats king of PL midfielders, but even if De Bruyne doesn’t quite match his goalscoring, he’s an absolute playmaking genius, while Lampard was just very good at it), Silva (more productive), Toure (more consistent) or Gerrard (similarly to Lampard).

Comparing him to the likes of Keane, Vieira, Kanté & the likes is a bit more difficult as their roles were so fundamentally different. But overall I’d imagine that he’d go toe-to-toe with Keano as the overall best/most influential midfielder in league’s history. And he still shows no signs of slowing down.
 
Fortitude said:
You're talking about players who shone in CL football. When has De Bruyne done that?
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De Bruyne has had more than enough excellent CL games and big CL moments to render this statement just completely untrue. I think what you're really saying is that De Bruyne hasn't won the CL yet, which is true but not the same as him not shining in the competition.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
CL and International performances are irrelevant to his ranking as a PL player though?…

Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard were nowhere near as good at international level as de Bruyne
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I never said his performances in Europe were relevant to his ranking as a PL player, that is why I said he is a great player in the Premier league.

Being better than Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard at internationals is a very low bar given England won nothing and failed during their time.
And there is no real evidence that KDB has been better than them due to the fact he has gone missing in mostly every decisive tournament game.

Also i can revise my opinion in the future, he isnt retired yet. If he leads his country with great performances in the World Cup and turns up when it matters in the CL his status will be elevated. But until then he remains a great PL player.
 
He has 9 assists already in the league and we are only in late October (2nd only to Messi's 10) and has a good chance of breaking the all-time record of 21 in a league season.
He's as creative as any midfielder who has ever played in the Premier League, and has the dribbling, crossing, scoring that make him the most complete midfield player in the Premier League era, in my opinion.

As good as Scholes was, and Gerrard and Lampard were, I think some are looking back with nostalgia. Neither of the three were as consistently good as De Bruyne has been for City over the last 7 years. He hasn't just been a passenger in this City side that has dominated English football since Guardiola joined. He's arguably their best player (and arguably has been their best player for the duration of the run)
 
Noot said:
De Bruyne has had more than enough excellent CL games and big CL moments to render this statement just completely untrue. I think what you're really saying is that De Bruyne hasn't won the CL yet, which is true but not the same as him not shining in the competition.
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I don't quite agree with this. I think De Bruyne has been decent in the CL over the course of his career but I wouldn't classify it as "more than enough big CL moments". Better CL career than Hazard though, that's for sure.
 
If your doing an all time PL 11 I think he's in the midfield beside Keane and Scholes.
 
Canagel said:
I never said his performances in Europe were relevant to his ranking as a PL player, that is why I said he is a great player in the Premier league.

Being better than Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard at internationals is a very low bar given England won nothing and failed during their time.
And there is no real evidence that KDB has been better than them due to the fact he has gone missing in mostly every decisive tournament game.

Also i can revise my opinion in the future, he isnt retired yet. If he leads his country with great performances in the World Cup and turns up when it matters in the CL his status will be elevated. But until then he remains a great PL player.
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Don't think that's a fair reflection of his international career. In the 2018 World Cup he had a huge performance against Brazil in the quarter final. Across the tournament, the Guardian gave him the 3rd highest average player rating (behind Modric and Hazard) of any of the teams who reached the knockout stages. At Euro 2020 he came in injured, rescued Begium with a ridiculous performance against Denmark, had another good showing in his next game, and then was played with a new injury against Italy where he eventually ran out of steam.

Internationally I think the difference between him and some of the other great 8/10 types like Zidane or Breitner is they could be brilliant, then have a quiet game, but due to the superior overall strength of their team-mates they could still progress to the next game. And clearly an international trophy will make a big difference to De Bruyne's legacy in the same way as it has enhanced many of his peers.
 
PL all timer. Snoozy in the CL. Much like all of City’s legends
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
He has 9 assists already in the league and we are only in late October (2nd only to Messi's 10) and has a good chance of breaking the all-time record of 21 in a league season.
He's as creative as any midfielder who has ever played in the Premier League, and has the dribbling, crossing, scoring that make him the most complete midfield player in the Premier League era, in my opinion.

As good as Scholes was, and Gerrard and Lampard were, I think some are looking back with nostalgia. Neither of the three were as consistently good as De Bruyne has been for City over the last 7 years. He hasn't just been a passenger in this City side that has dominated English football since Guardiola joined. He's arguably their best player (and arguably has been their best player for the duration of the run)
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This can be debated - De Bruyne has a completely different role than at least Scholes and Gerrard. Gerrards strength was that he could win a game single-handedly. He could tackle, he could run, he could shoot - he had it all. Lampard was a goal machine who scored 10 league goals + for about 10 seasons in a row. In his first 7 seasons at City - DeBruyne has averaged about 7 goals a season - in his prime, Lampard averaged twice as many.
Scholes was a central midfielder who dictated Uniteds tempo in a game - but he had a much lower position than DeBruyne as he played centrally in a 4-4-2. So often Scholes would have the 3rd or 4th last touch on the ball before it becoming a goal - whereas DeBruynes quality is the through-balls etc who ends up with an assist.

So in my opinion these 4 players were all consistently good - but they were good at different things. In his role as an attacking midfielder - there has been none better in the P.L than DeBruyne
 
I think he's surpassed the likes of David Silva (the footballer's footballer, as well as the choice of the armchair footballing connoisseur), surpassed Yaya Toure (more consistency over a longer period of time) - clearly City's best midfielder ever.

He's probably also surpassed Lampard, Scholes and Gerrard now. I mean Lampard shouldn't be in the conversation anyway because he was just decent at everything with an exceptional ability to get goals. Scholes really had three or four separate stages of his career (post 30s DLP, number 10 in the Veron era, attacking box to box mid in the late 90s, second striker in the early/mid 90s when first breaking through) - De Bruyne has had a longer stretch in his best role, and the heights he's reached are higher than the heights Scholes reached in any of his numerous roles. I love Scholes and he's probably my favourite player ever, and you've got to give him kudos for excelling in different roles, so just depends what criteria you're judging by. Gerrard, somewhat similiar in that he played numerous roles but don't think he was at De Bruyne's level in any of those roles.
 
Noot said:
De Bruyne has had more than enough excellent CL games and big CL moments to render this statement just completely untrue. I think what you're really saying is that De Bruyne hasn't won the CL yet, which is true but not the same as him not shining in the competition.
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No he hasn’t, most certainly not relative and compared to CL legends like Del Piero, Seedorf and the like, nowhere near.
 
H doesn’t look like he should be that good. Bit like Kane. Which I enjoy in this era of super athletes.

But he is the best attacking midfielder the PL has seen. His ability to run with the ball edges him past Scholes.
 
he's bloody brilliant, and it's not even hard to say as I don't even hate him or any of City's players. it's all a bit meh.
So I hope nobody blames me for trying to belittle his qualities. He's very obviously an insanely good midfielder,
And I don't know whether he ranks as the best, 5th, or 10th best the Prem has ever seen (these lists are stupid and rely on personal taste).

I believe 2 things need to be stated though:

a) The recency bias here is very much evident (also true for Luka Modric being the best midfielder ever as I've seen stated on this site, what the feck).
When Scholes, Keane, Vieria, Lampard, and Stevie Me were at their pomp, you could bet people described them as the best ever in England, as it was hard to imagine a midfielder being better than them.

I believe KDB 'enjoys' the fact that there's nobody quite like him in the current prem, and those who just about match his abilities at times (David Silva in the past, Bernardo at present) play alongside him. He looks better than the crazy good that he already is because the immediate competition for his position in England doesn't really exist.

b) More importantly; No matter how good we seem to remember United, Chlesea, and Arsenal of the past to have been,
I think that the gap between the best team in the league and the bottom teams has never been bigger than it currently is with Man City.

"Luckily" for KDB and also because of him, he plays in a team and a system where an exceptional playmaker/attacking midfielder would excel in a way that wasn't "accesible", for lack of a better word, for the "Greats" of the past.

Scholes, Lampard, whoever.... they never got to play in a team with such a dominant midfield, who created so many chances for the teams' attackers...

So the comparision is a bit odd.
 
I would still take gerrard over him as I just think gerrard delivered when it was really needed in the biggest games, de bruyne benefits from a team that consistently plays well and rarely has to drag his team through tough matches when they ain't clicking on the day.

This will also be controversial but I would take Beckham over him too, Beckham suffered from playing in a different era of flat 4 man midfield and was used as a right winger but if he had come through in this era of football he would be used in the middle of the park and can do everything we de bruyne do in terms of set pieces, shooting ability and creating chances on a plate for strikers
 
Like a few others in the thread I'd probably have him as the best Premier League midfielder of all time, as well as the best overall Premier League player for several years. The precision in everything he does, coupled with the ability to decide matches, is unrivalled by anyone I can remember, and he's done it over so many seasons now, with the trophy cabinet to match (save for the Champions League they'll likely win this year).
 
Bernando Silva is better in dribbling. He's the 'little Messi' in the squad. If you don't believe me, you can look for Bernando Silva's highlights and see how good he is.

Now Man City also has a destroyer like Lewandowski in Haaland. How to not win the league?

Playing with exceptional players like Bernardo, David Silva, Aguero, Gabriel Jesus, Gundogan, Stirling probably helps KDB too.
 
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Recall many a time where he seemed to decide the passing game wasn’t working and he stepped up, powered forward and basically won the game single handedly. Even the last game of last season, when the third goal put the scouse back to bed, it was all about De Bruyne wanting it more, forcing the goal to happen and winning the match.
Speaking about premier league influence on City winning games there’s loads of examples of him deciding the games pretty much by himself
 
Needs to really dominate in Europe. There’s no excuse for him not to and that’s what holds him back from being best EPL midfielder ever.
 
cyberman said:
Needs to really dominate in Europe. There’s no excuse for him not to and that’s what holds him back from being best EPL midfielder ever.
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I don't remember any PL midfielder dominating Europe.
 
Would KDB have the same impact with us? Or is it all about what players your playing with and the system your playing in. I think I’d still prefer Bruno if I’m being honest, he’s more of a leader and puts up better numbers.
 
Hammondo said:
I don't remember any PL midfielder dominating Europe.
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I remember a midfield of Scholes and Carrick setting records as they controlled midfields against Europes best as we reached 3 finals in 4 years, as an example.
I remember Kante being out of this world as Chelsea comfortably won the CL a few years ago as KDB was brought off early in the final against him (no fault of his own)
Lampard in 08 scored the late winner in the quarters, I think the winning pen in the semi final and equaliser in the final. Clutch moments. The season he won it he was assisting and scoring in almost every knockout game he was simply outstanding in that season.
When we got to the final at Wembley Giggs had scored or assisted in every knockout game including the final from the midfield position. Then there’s the Gerrard Liverpool nightmare 2 finals in 3 years, 3 semis in 4 when he was outstanding.
That is missing off KDB cv. Not just one season but he really needs multiple of them with the talent he has and with the team he plays in.
 
I think you could make a solid argument for him to be the worlds best footballer not named messi over the past few years.

The blue cnut
 
DJ_21 said:
Would KDB have the same impact with us? Or is it all about what players your playing with and the system your playing in. I think I’d still prefer Bruno if I’m being honest, he’s more of a leader and puts up better numbers.
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The guy who broke the Bundesliga assist record at Wolfsburg? I think he'd do alright.
 
Red_Aaron said:
I think you could make a solid argument for him to be the worlds best footballer not named messi over the past few years.

The blue cnut
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I share this sentiment and rate him higher than likes of Benzema, Modrić and Lewandowski - if it wasn’t for Pep’s feck ups in CL he should’ve won at least one Ballon d’Or. Perhaps he can get one of Belgium manage to reach a final or so in the World Cup.
 
Hammondo said:
I don't remember any PL midfielder dominating Europe.
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The definition of midfield domination has changed a lot since Xavi & Iniesta showed the world how it’s done — I’d probably say that only a handful of midfields ever reached even something comparable. I wouldn’t describe Modrić - Kroos - Casemiro midfield as a dominating one simply because they allow others to play the game even though they’re insanely important in Real’s European domination.

If we don’t count that extreme level of dominance then United midfield 4 of Giggs - Keane - Scholes - Beckham or that Scholes - Carrick +1 (Hargreaves/Fletcher/Park) did pretty well and so did Chelsea’s Makélélé - Essien - Lampard (and variants).
 
Red Star One said:
I share this sentiment and rate him higher than likes of Benzema, Modrić and Lewandowski - if it wasn’t for Pep’s feck ups in CL he should’ve won at least one Ballon d’Or. Perhaps he can get one of Belgium manage to reach a final or so in the World Cup.
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Is it just down to Pep? City go out every year to madness. End to end suicide football where City’s midfield lose their heads and all control.
That isn’t just down to Pep
 
Hammondo said:
I don't remember any PL midfielder dominating Europe.
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Suppose it depends how you define dominate. To give a couple other examples:

Gerrard scored 27 goals in 57 European games from 2004 to 2009, as the primary force in winning 1 CL, reaching another final, and taking Chelsea to the wire in 08 and 09.

Fabregas controlled big CL games from the age of 18 - there weren’t many European games he didn’t dictate when at Arsenal.
 
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