Television House of the Dragon (GoT Prequel) - No book spoilers allowed

VanDeBank said:
You're overthinking this. It's popular because it's starts out great for multiple seasons then turns to shit.

This is incredible common with a lot of shows,, it's why budgets for ongoing tv shows get smaller and smaller as the show progresses, because the executives know people are already hooked and will often watch it 'till its conclusion.

I'm not nitpicking anything, I just happen to think the show turned to shit once they started running out of source material. This isn't a random complaint, it's glaringly obvious.
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You were the one saying that there isn't much enthusiasm left online about got related things and I said this is clearly not true so not sure how I'm overthinking. Maybe not in your neck of the woods but clearly not everywhere.

GoT's budget grew exponentially season upon season.

I'm not disagreeing with you there. I could write a PhD thesis on where GoT went wrong (and basically did up there) I just don't see what that has to do with this show. But to each their own.

BusbyMalone said:
Well from the bits that I've read in those reviews, the first six episodes apparently take their time in building up the mood and tone, while slowly revealing the main crux of the story and plot.

A lot of the negative stuff I've read basically boils down to "it's the same as GoT; nothing new here" I mean if it's like peak GoT then I really don't care.
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Yea, at the end of the day you have to watch it yourself and make up your mind. Of course we're now comparing it to this huge phenomenon so people are gonna be more hard on it. But you can't really compare GoT's Greatest Hits spread over 70+ episodes to one season or in this case 6 episodes of this new show. The NYT apparently called season 1 of GoT patronizing and irrelevant so if this does half as well then I'm happy :lol:
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Anyone got a known sky Atlantic river?
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The episode already leaked but I think it's an older review version so some things might look unfinished and it doesnt have the intro (assuming that the show has an actual intro like GoT had). If you google fmovies you should find it No clue where you'd find a river but I'm sure if you look around the internet around that time it should be findable.
 
dance of the dragon is the best story in the AWOIF series. As a purist I hate that Corys Velaryon is being represented by a black man because its against the Lore + its kind of counterproductive really (I don't want to spoil anything but trust me not everything around Corys is great, far from it). Also there are far better characters that can represent minorities better and would sit perfectly within the lore. There again, the actor has no fault whatsoever and I disagree with any abuse he's getting.

For those who don't mind spoilers those characters would be
Addam Velaryon, Nettles, Erkk and Arryk Cargyll, the Darklyns, Maester Munkun, Dalton Greyjoy, Toron Greyjoy (who was son of a salt wife) and Tess
 
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devilish said:
dance of the dragon is the best story in the AWOIF series. As a purist I hate that Corys Velaryon is being represented by a black man because its against the Lore + its kind of counterproductive really (I don't want to spoil anything but trust me not everything around Corys is great, far from it). Also there are far better characters that can represent minorities better and would sit perfectly within the lore. There again, the actor has no fault whatsoever and I disagree with any abuse he's getting.
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The lore doesn't actually matter, the Velaryons are sea people not dragon riders and George is fine with it considering he previously wanted to make the Targs black. People are already complaining about too many white blonde people they can't keep them apart, if the Velaryons were white their brains might implode. But yes I can foresee people making an issue of that but that's the nature of the story and there really is no other major families that would work unless you want to make the Hightowers black which would be an even bigger issue considering.. everything.. It also works with GoT because we don't see the Velaryons.
 
)_( said:
You were the one saying that there isn't much enthusiasm left online about got related things and I said this is clearly not true so not sure how I'm overthinking. Maybe not in your neck of the woods but clearly not everywhere.

GoT's budget grew exponentially season upon season.

I'm not disagreeing with you there. I could write a PhD thesis on where GoT went wrong (and basically did up there) I just don't see what that has to do with this show. But to each their own.



Yea, at the end of the day you have to watch it yourself and make up your mind. Of course we're now comparing it to this huge phenomenon so people are gonna be more hard on it. But you can't really compare GoT's Greatest Hits spread over 70+ episodes to one season or in this case 6 episodes of this new show. The NYT apparently called season 1 of GoT patronizing and irrelevant so if this does half as well then I'm happy :lol:
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I don't know what you're on about. No I wasn't the one who said that. I think you responded to my first and only post in this thread...
 
)_( said:
The lore doesn't actually matter, the Velaryons are sea people not dragon riders and George is fine with it considering he previously wanted to make the Targs black. People are already complaining about too many white blonde people they can't keep them apart, if the Velaryons were white their brains might implode. But yes I can foresee people making an issue of that but that's the nature of the story and there really is no other major families that would work unless you want to make the Hightowers black which would be an even bigger issue considering.. everything.. It also works with GoT because we don't see the Velaryons.
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If GRRM wanted the Targaryens black then he should have made them black. Unfortunately he didn't. Instead he made them of a certain characteristics which tend to be recessive. That means that if Corlys is black then his children would be black and if Rhaenyra's children from her first husband are not black then its evident that they aren't his. The rumours surrounding Rhaenyra's children being bastards was a bone of contention of why they shouldn't rule Westeros. If they happened to be white then that's perfect evidence that they are indeed bastards. Not to forget that the Velaryons and the Targaryens tend to mix quite regularly. So their appearance by now shouldn't be as pale as snow either.

Also note the Velaryons aren't exactly role models at the time. Corlys was close to rebel against the Targaryens and was bribing his way to have his son appointed heir to the IT. He was succeeded by his 'grandson' who was officially his son's bastard which is quite ironic considering that Laenor was gay. Some say that he was actually Corys' son not Laenor's which means that he had betrayed Rhaenys, one of the nicest persons living during the dance. As said Laenor was gay and was derided by half the kingdom behind his back because of it. Meanwhile his wife Rhaenyra slept with half the kingdom. Is this the sort of family you want as role model to the black community?

In my opinion there are way better characters for the black community then the Velaryons.
 
VanDeBank said:
I don't know what you're on about. No I wasn't the one who said that. I think you responded to my first and only post in this thread...
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I assumed you were the person I was responding to, I didn't look at your name so I'm not really sure what you were reacting to exactly.

devilish said:
If GRRM wanted the Targaryens black then he should have made them black. Unfortunately he didn't. Instead he made them of a certain characteristics which tend to be recessive. That means that if Corlys is black then his children would be black and if Rhaenyra's children from her first husband are not black then its evident that they aren't his. The rumours surrounding Rhaenyra's children being bastards was a bone of contention of why they shouldn't rule Westeros. If they happened to be white then that's perfect evidence that they are indeed bastards. Not to forget that the Velaryons and the Targaryens tend to mix quite regularly. So their appearance by now shouldn't be as pale as snow either.

Also note the Velaryons aren't exactly role models at the time. Corlys was close to rebel against the Targaryens and was bribing his way to have his son appointed heir to the IT. He was succeeded by his 'grandson' who was officially his son's bastard which is quite ironic considering that Laenor was gay. Some say that he was actually Corys' son not Laenor's which means that he had betrayed Rhaenys, one of the nicest persons living during the dance. As said Laenor was gay and was derided by half the kingdom behind his back because of it. Meanwhile his wife Rhaenyra slept with half the kingdom. Is this the sort of family you want as role model to the black community?

In my opinion there are way better characters for the black community then the Velaryons.
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Genes don't really work in a normal way in asoiaf. Second of all, Laenor is already mixed, just look at Megan Markle and Prince Harry's kid but yes, I agree in this case maybe it would have been smarter to make the Strongs black too. But even then again, you don't know how the kids would turn out and it's not really contentious in the books as much as you make it seem. Who cares if he's close to rebelling, is that something bad? Do black characters need to be of impeccable moral instead of simply human beings like the rest of the people? do we need some kind of respectability politics in hotd??? >> leak spoilers ahead from the leaks we already know there'll be a conversation between Rhaenyra and Laenor about this exact thing and again, who cares if he cheated on her?? this isn't really a surprising thing in this world?? He doesnt have to be some moral perfect person. And you still havent suggested who else should be black instead of the Velaryons then? cause really there is no other family. In the end at least he and his granddaughters survive
 
)_( said:
I assumed you were the person I was responding to, I didn't look at your name so I'm not really sure what you were reacting to exactly.


Genes don't really work in a normal way in asoiaf. Second of all, Laenor is already mixed, just look at Megan Markle and Prince Harry's kid but yes, I agree in this case maybe it would have been smarter to make the Strongs black too. But even then again, you don't know how the kids would turn out and it's not really contentious in the books as much as you make it seem. Who cares if he's close to rebelling, is that something bad? Do black characters need to be of impeccable moral instead of simply human beings like the rest of the people? do we need some kind of respectability politics in hotd??? >> leak spoilers ahead from the leaks we already know there'll be a conversation between Rhaenyra and Laenor about this exact thing and again, who cares if he cheated on her?? this isn't really a surprising thing in this world?? He doesnt have to be some moral perfect person. And you still havent suggested who else should be black instead of the Velaryons then? cause really there is no other family. In the end at least he and his granddaughters survive
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Genes are a big issue in ASOIAF. Its started the war in GOT and placed Rhaenyra's children in hot water. The Valyrian gene is quite recessive as well. There's a million example showing that from Baelor Targaryen right to Rhaenys Targaryen (Rhaegar's daughter) and Jon Snow. So Laenor being more white then black isn't exactly great and if his children are white then it becomes silly and a huge problem to the story.

My point is that if the writers are ready to shit on the Lore simply because of inclusivity then they might as well have bothered reading the story and they should have handpicked people whose majority of traits are positive. The funny thing is that there wasn't even a need to shit on the lore either. Various 'more suited' characters could have been made black and no one would care. Maester Orwyle and Maester Munkun, Nettles, Addam and Alys of Hull. If they wanted a 'naughty' character then Dalton Greyjoy would have been great. The guy had a horde of salt wives (he was succeeded by a son from those salt wives) which means that no one would care if his mother was a salt wife as well. If they want to rebalance the story then they can switch things around with Toron's mum resembling the Greyjoys from GOT.
 
No book spoilers before anyone thinks of posting one. Should go without saying really but have to post it as I know what some are like.
 
As a fan of GoT seasons 1-6 and HBO in general, I really want to like HotD, but my faith in the show writers is limited to the extreme after seeing how they handled the last two seasons of GoT when the source material dried up.

I've given up on writers creating something comparable to the greats like The Sopranos, The Wire, BoB, GoT and OZ. I'd settle for something watchable, though.
 
Random Task said:
As a fan of GoT seasons 1-6 and HBO in general, I really want to like HotD, but my faith in the show writers is limited to the extreme after seeing how they handled the last two seasons of GoT when the source material dried up.

I've given up on writers creating something comparable to the greats like The Sopranos, The Wire, BoB, GoT and OZ. I'd settle for something watchable, though.
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These are completely different showrunners, d&d aren't anywhere near this. They're not even executive producers despite the fact that technically they have the rights to put their names on it.
devilish said:
Genes are a big issue in ASOIAF. Its started the war in GOT and placed Rhaenyra's children in hot water. The Valyrian gene is quite recessive as well. There's a million example showing that from Baelor Targaryen right to Rhaenys Targaryen (Rhaegar's daughter) and Jon Snow. So Laenor being more white then black isn't exactly great and if his children are white then it becomes silly and a huge problem to the story.

My point is that if the writers are ready to shit on the Lore simply because of inclusivity then they might as well have bothered reading the story and they should have handpicked people whose majority of traits are positive. The funny thing is that there wasn't even a need to shit on the lore either. Various 'more suited' characters could have been made black and no one would care. Maester Orwyle and Maester Munkun, Nettles, Addam and Alys of Hull. If they wanted a 'naughty' character then Dalton Greyjoy would have been great. The guy had a horde of salt wives (he was succeeded by a son from those salt wives) which means that no one would care if his mother was a salt wife as well. If they want to rebalance the story then they can switch things around with Toron's mum resembling the Greyjoys from GOT.
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Why is it the "but lore!!!!" people always complain when there's a black person or poc cast but it's fine that Rhaenyra and Alicent are bffs or that Rhaenys has Targ hair instead of Baratheon hair.
 
Some of the comments in here reminds me of those movie critics who haven't got a clue. They'll give a movie such a terrible review but you decide to watch it anyway. Turns out it was a helluva of movie but some people just thrive on complaining. Difference is those critics have actually seen the movie and not just talking out their ass. Some just have different preferences and start watching with a different attitude. Majority will love this show and some will hate it. Those who love it won't give a hoot about those of you who hate it. They'll just keep enjoying it week after week while the complainers continue to look for reasons to hate it.
 
)_( said:
These are completely different showrunners, d&d aren't anywhere near this. They're not even executive producers despite the fact that technically they have the rights to put their names on it.

Why is it the "but lore!!!!" people always complain when there's a black person or poc cast but it's fine that Rhaenyra and Alicent are bffs or that Rhaenys has Targ hair instead of Baratheon hair.
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I really really hate the spoilers tag

Rhaenyra and Alicent had a good relationship with one another up until Alicent produced a male heir. Even then Alicent had tried to come out with solutions to the conundrum. She suggested a marriage between Rhaenyra and Aegon who was shot down by the idiotic king and she wanted a great council to decide who should rule between the two which was shot down by Rhaenyra. Alicent is far from perfect but she's not Cersei


Rhaenys black hair being white is indeed stupid. It kinds of craps on 'Cersei's children not being Baratheon because of their golden hair' which dragged the kingdom into war. Which kind of reinforce my concerns on whether these producers had bothered to read the story. B&B certainly didn't
 
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devilish said:
I really really hate the spoilers tag

Rhaenyra and Alicent had a good relationship with one another up until Alicent produced a male heir. Even then Alicent had tried to come out with solutions to the conundrum. She suggested a marriage between Rhaenyra and Aegon who was shot down by the idiotic king and she wanted a great council to decide who should rule between the two which was shot down by Rhaenyra. Alicent is far from perfect but she's not Cersei


Rhaenys black hair being white is indeed stupid. It kinds of craps on 'Cersei's children not being Baratheon because of their golden hair' which dragged the kingdom into war. Which kind of reinforce my concerns on whether these producers had bothered to read the story. B&B certainly didn't
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That's a fair point.
 
devilish said:
I really really hate the spoilers tag

Rhaenyra and Alicent had a good relationship with one another up until Alicent produced a male heir. Even then Alicent had tried to come out with solutions to the conundrum. She suggested a marriage between Rhaenyra and Aegon who was shot down by the idiotic king and she wanted a great council to decide who should rule between the two which was shot down by Rhaenyra. Alicent is far from perfect but she's not Cersei


Rhaenys black hair being white is indeed stupid. It kinds of craps on 'Cersei's children not being Baratheon because of their golden hair' which dragged the kingdom into war. Which kind of reinforce my concerns on whether these producers had bothered to read the story. B&B certainly didn't
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It really doesn't matter at all even a little bit. Ryan Condal has been a fan of George's work for like 20 years and they've been friends for around ten years. George was the one who specifically approached Condal to work on this show because he knows about Condal's love for this world and his knowledge of it. He simply doesn't care about changing things that don't actually matter all that much to the story.
Anyway I'm done arguing about black people being allowed to exist in tv shows.
 
)_( said:
It really doesn't matter at all even a little bit. Ryan Condal has been a fan of George's work for like 20 years and they've been friends for around ten years. George was the one who specifically approached Condal to work on this show because he knows about Condal's love for this world and his knowledge of it. He simply doesn't care about changing things that don't actually matter all that much to the story.
Anyway I'm done arguing about black people being allowed to exist in tv shows.
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Well his mistakes doesn't testify to that. As you perfectly highlighted Rhaenys hair kind of shit on GOT big time and had turned Ned/jon into fools. There can be Baratheons with non black hair after all

Also that's a rather unfair criticism on your part as I had suggested a list of fantastic characters who are more appropriate and wouldn't make the show look silly
 
Just one episode but pacing feels faster in comparison to GoT's start. Tournament scene is superb, heavy with grit. Viserys on the edge rather quick... thought at least 2 episodes of steady setting up the story, but they're going like storm from the start.

Potential is there for a solid fantasy show, no matter how will it compare to GoT in a longer run imo.
 
How have you guys seen it? Doesn't it come out at 2am in the UK?
 
We've just watched it. Really enjoyed it. We promised ourselves we wouldn't get drawn back in after the shit show that was series 8 GOT, but it's good.
CGI on the dragons is great, Targs look as the books describe them.
 
RedSky said:
The IP is pretty ruined for me, pissed off that George still hasn't written his fecking book and is devoting time into everything but finishing it. I also think Matt Smith is pretty bad casting. I'm not hyped by the trailers either, nothing new to the table.
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That’ll show em
 
It was a little slow, but the production is there. High hopes for the rest of the season.
 
marktan said:
How have you guys seen it? Doesn't it come out at 2am in the UK?
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These torrent freeloaders get the leaked episode early while us good people with honest intentions who pay for the service have to wait until the middle of the night. The world is a cruel place.
 
)_( said:
These are completely different showrunners, d&d aren't anywhere near this. They're not even executive producers despite the fact that technically they have the rights to put their names on it.

Why is it the "but lore!!!!" people always complain when there's a black person or poc cast but it's fine that Rhaenyra and Alicent are bffs or that Rhaenys has Targ hair instead of Baratheon hair.
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I read somewhere that It's because all the Targaryans are supposed to be white in colour and there's a particular storyline, where a character's legitimacy of birth comes into question, and having a black character who is crucial to that storyline is not being faithful to the story at all.

Then here's Peter Dinklage with this:
“They wanted the pretty white people to ride off into the sunset together,” he said regarding any fan fracas over the finale.
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And then there's this from the showrunner Ryan Condal:
Condal tells EW on the set of House of the Dragon in December: "It was very important for Miguel and I to create a show that was not another bunch of white people on the screen, just to put it very bluntly."
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Why cast a black actor when the part basically calls for a white person? It's the same when they casted a white guy for the live action make of Dragonbvall Evolution. It didn't sit well the fans, and why should this be?

I hate racists as the next normal person, I stand for LGBTQ rights, but may be these people should leave their activism out of certain places.
 
Wasn’t getting into it in the first half but the second half was good. The production quality is very good but just feel its a slight notch below the original series. And Idk why but the atmosphere we’re used to of the GOT series is not quite there yet. Hopefully, it builds up that atmosphere as the series goes along and gets better.
 
Overall a good opening episode. Started off a little slow but picked up near the end. Looking forward to seeing how this goes over the coming weeks.
 
Pretty good. Slow start but picked up. Will take a while to get invested in everyone I'm sure. And learn their names :lol:
 
Carolina Red said:
You watching it now too?
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Yess! That theme song gave me goosebumps. I have to say Daemon is my instant favorite. I feel like I need to watch Doctor Who now.
There's so much going on I can't process it all yet. Solid episode though.
The talk Viserys had with Rhaenyra about protecting the relm and showing her the dagger was the highlight for me.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
Yess! That theme song gave me goosebumps. I have to say Daemon is my instant favorite. I feel like I need to watch Doctor Who now.
There's so much going on I can't process it all yet. Solid episode though.
The talk Viserys had with Rhaenyra about protecting the relm and showing her the dagger was the highlight for me.
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That was the same dagger from GOT that was used by the catspaw to when he attacked Bran, yeah?
 
harshad said:
That was the same dagger from GOT that was used by the catspaw to when he attacked Bran, yeah?
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Yes and the same one that killed the NK.

girish said:
I read somewhere that It's because all the Targaryans are supposed to be white in colour and there's a particular storyline, where a character's legitimacy of birth comes into question, and having a black character who is crucial to that storyline is not being faithful to the story at all.

Then here's Peter Dinklage with this:



And then there's this from the showrunner Ryan Condal:


Why cast a black actor when the part basically calls for a white person? It's the same when they casted a white guy for the live action make of Dragonbvall Evolution. It didn't sit well the fans, and why should this be?

I hate racists as the next normal person, I stand for LGBTQ rights, but may be these people should leave their activism out of certain places.
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Not sure what lgbt rights have to do with this convo but ok. Who knew that gay and black people existing is activism.
It's a good thing Velaryons arent Targaryens then. There is no question of legitimacy everyone knows, just cause they're pretending its not the case doesn't mean anything. I mean ffs, the kids all have brown hair when the parents are Valyrian blond. And sits perfectly fine with 99% of the fans, just not the racists.
 
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