Homophobia in football

[Andycoleno9]

What is your stance?

Ask that newb. He knows i guess.

But i will answer to you. Sensitive topic so better to clear that up.
In this case? If you are club's captain then you accepted to represent club and be active in projects which club promotes. So you wear armband and respect your employer. Or give armband away.
In general my stance is selfish; for me football should stay football. Without all these support this and that stuff. Not proud on it, but it is like it is.

In general about gay rights? I support them of course.

 

[Cloud7]

As someone who has come from a country with usual third world country views on LGBTQ stuff, views that I have always found abhorrent and are finally starting to change, I would say that you can't come to a country that celebrates diversity and is open and welcoming of LGBTQ people and want to work in said country, but then claim that you won't be part of supporting these groups because it goes against your religion.

Go and play your fecking football in a country where you won't have to wear the armband then. Religion is the flakiest excuse for something anyway, and in 2024 your man in the sky should not be a reason to not show support for real, actual, living people here in the world. You can't pick and choose the parts of working somewhere that benefit you.

Which always goes back to these people are just homophobic and use their religion as a cover for it.

 

[Fenômeno]

Well, do you not see how the two situations are, therefore, not comparable?

Are you saying LGBTQ people only suffer discrimination in the football world ?

 

[Tomshark]

Respect his religious beliefs, sure - in general. But if his religious beliefs prevent him from representing the club in a proper manner - you have a fundamental problem.

The Premier League is committed to promoting LGBTQ+ diversity.

I don't see how the club can "respect" the decision in question. The guy is clearly taking a stance against "promoting LGBTQ+ diversity" - how can you interpret it otherwise? And how can you "respect" that?

So you must respect a campaign in the cost of not respecting a religion? Sounds very logical. Religion and belief are the most fundamental thing, on top of everything. When a campaign is not align with religion, then the campaign which actually is the fundamental problem, not the religion.

Need more players to stand up against this stupid campaign.

The impacts of forcing to wear it will be greater too. Just try it and see, many people silent about LGBTQ doesn't mean they are agree or supporting it especially in Asia. Forcing it will cause the club losing many fanbase from Asia. Big clubs won't be even dare.

Starting to get sick looking at this movement forcing everyone to do what they want.

By their logic, the religion and their principles must not enforce their lives but we our movement must be. Sounds very fair

 

[Bole Top]

which reminds me, he has about 15 seasons of football in England behind him, but this is his first season in EPL. do they not wear similar armbands in Championship and League One? or he was refusing to wear it in lower leagues as well, but the story wasn't as interesting as now?

 

[Posh Red]

Are you saying LGBTQ people only suffer discrimination in the football world ?

No. How on earth have you inferred that from what I’ve said?

Are you genuinely suggesting you don’t see why it could be seen as different for a captain of a Premier League football team to officially opt out of a league wide campaign to wear an armband to promote inclusion for the LGBTQ community in football, and your colleagues having an option to wear a rainbow lanyard to work?

 

[subotai]

Dont get why he's getting criticism, no one should be forced to wear a band supporting anything they dont want to. Not supporting is not the same as hating. For example I got nothing against the LGBT community but I wouldnt feel comfortable putting a rainbow flag on my house.

If you had a family member who still lived at home, say a son or daughter, who, keeping it simple, identified as gay , would you still feel uncomfortable putting a rainbow flag on your house? Because in a way, that's what this is. There are gay people in the crowd, there are gay people in the team, there are gay people on your street, and there are gay people in your family.

Centuries of oppresion by religions have made gay people (still keeping it simple) a target. This pernicious ill will has seeped into the collective conciousness, expecially among some of us who don't want to think it through. As a result, some people need our overt support, and will continue to need our overt support for decades to come. This is a common theme, it's not just restricted to sexuallity or identity,

People can choose not to support a targeted minority for whatever reason, the corollary of which will be justified (IMO) criticism. It boils down to how convincing your argument is for the continued witholding of support for unfairly oppresed miniorities, and there're no convincing arguments for that in this thread, as far as I can tell.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

what’s your experience with the FA and their distribution systems. In fact, what’s your direct experience with the FA at all. Mine is plentiful. And for a number of years. Without going too deep on access rights on WholeGamesystem I can say with a lot of confidence that any and all FA systems are not fit for purpose.

Oooh don’t get me started on the foundation hahaha
They do of course do a lot of good. I’m very aware of their brilliant work overall. They did piss me off once though. They basically took one of our two Powerchair teams on. In name alone really with very little support. We, the grassroots club were even providing their defib

I once tried to reach out to the foundation to ask for some monetary support with a few second hand Powerchairs that perhaps could be stored on site for newbies. An absolute point black refusal. They wouldn’t even share any links on their social. Even though they had some affiliation to this poor Powerchair team.

Absolute disgrace. Like they wanted the recognition to say. Look at us we offer Powerchair…but a complete lack of support.

The two guys I had dealings with actually sounded embarrassed by it. They wanted to help but it was messaging from above.

I am extremely experienced about the price of clip boards but it sounds like with no evidence whatsoever you have a super spooky definitely real wealth of experience on "any and all FA systems" to say conclusively that they are definitely spending millions on this campaign

 

[duffer]

which reminds me, he has about 15 seasons of football in England behind him, but this is his first season in EPL. do they not wear similar armbands in Championship and League One? or he was refusing to wear it in lower leagues as well, but the story wasn't as interesting as now?

The armband is a premier league thing.


The Rainbow Laces campaign has traditionally been, well, laces.

 

[Infestissumam]

I think it's fair for players to refuse to wear it. Their choice, so be it ... but at the same time, I think it's fair to call them knobheads for choosing to do so and hiding behind "religious reasons" to mask their homophobia.

Knobheads.

 

[GlazersHater]

If you had a family member who still lived at home, say a son or daughter, who, keeping it simple, identified as gay , would you still feel uncomfortable putting a rainbow flag on your house? Because in a way, that's what this is. There are gay people in the crowd, there are gay people in the team, there are gay people on your street, and there are gay people in your family.

Centuries of oppresion by religions have made gay people (still keeping it simple) a target. This pernicious ill will has seeped into the collective conciousness, expecially among some of us who don't want to think it through. As a result, some people need our overt support, and will continue to need our overt support for decades to come. This is a common theme, it's not just restricted to sexuallity or identity,

People can choose not to support a targeted minority for whatever reason, the corollary of which will be justified (IMO) criticism. It boils down to how convincing your argument is for the continued witholding of support for unfairly oppresed miniorities, and there're no convincing arguments for that in this thread, as far as I can tell.

Football players, just like everyone else, have the right to express their beliefs and opinions. Im sure many players are supportive of LGBTQ+ rights, but forcing players to wear rainbow armbands infringes their personal autonomy. Many players hold different personal, cultural and even religious views and should not be forced to participate in a gesture they do not fully align with. Additionally, some footballers will surely face hostility or backlash from their personal or cultural contexts, leading to unnecessary conflicts. You're placing them in a lose-lose situation.

Sports aim to provide a platform for all players and fans, regardless of their personal beliefs. When footballers are forced to wear political symbols like rainbow armbands, it blurs the line between the sport and politics. This deviates from the main purpose of football, which is to unify people through the love of the game, rather than divide them along political lines.

​

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Football players, just like everyone else, have the right to express their beliefs and opinions. Im sure many players are supportive of LGBTQ+ rights, but forcing players to wear rainbow armbands infringes their personal autonomy. Many players hold different personal, cultural and even religious views and should not be forced to participate in a gesture they do not fully align with. Additionally, some footballers will surely face hostility or backlash from their personal or cultural contexts, leading to unnecessary conflicts. You're placing them in a lose-lose situation.

Sports aim to provide a platform for all players and fans, regardless of their personal beliefs. When footballers are forced to wear political symbols like rainbow armbands, it blurs the line between the sport and politics. This deviates from the main purpose of football, which is to unify people through the love of the game, rather than divide them along political lines.

Won't someone think of the poor bigots who just want to watch sports without being forced to feel guilty for their medieval beliefs???

Not all opinions are created equal. If your opinion is that your personal autonomy matters more than doing the absolute barest minimum to show support for a group of people who historically and contemporaneously have been discriminated against, then that opinion is fecking stupid and deserves to be ridiculed.

 

[GlazersHater]

Won't someone think of the poor bigots who just want to watch sports without being forced to feel guilty for their medieval beliefs???

Not all opinions are created equal. If your opinion is that your personal autonomy matters more than doing the absolute barest minimum to show support for a group of people who historically and contemporaneously have been discriminated against, then that opinion is fecking stupid and deserves to be ridiculed.

Football isnt about that, and like I said no one should be forced to support something they dont believe in. What actual real difference does it make for LGBTQ+ rights that footballers wear rainbow armbands? it achieves nothing. People thinking as radical as you just make some players say "well yeah whatever I'll wear it so I don't get critized" where's the value in that?

Having players forced to stand up for something they don't believe in makes ZERO difference. Specially with muslim players that we all know their stand on it because of their religion. Maybe for you their religion is worth nothing but many people take it very seriously, and again football is not about that. We should keep politics outside of it, whats next? people wearing pro or anti abortion signs? I know it sounds extreme, but if we open the door to politics then everything's on the table. Football is a beautiful sport and shouldnt be tainted with the burden of ideological beliefs of anykind.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It's so telling when people think showing acceptance and inclusion of homosexuality is "politics".

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Football isnt about that, and like I said no one should be forced to support something they dont believe in. What actual real difference does it make for LGBTQ+ rights that footballers wear rainbow armbands? it achieves nothing. People thinking as radical as you just make some players say "well yeah whatever I'll wear it so I don't get critized" where's the value in that?

Having players forced to stand up for something they don't believe in makes ZERO difference. Specially with muslim players that we all know their stand on it because of their religion. Maybe for you their religion is worth nothing but many people take it very seriously, and again football is not about that. We should keep politics outside of it, whats next? people wearing pro or anti abortion signs? I know it sounds extreme, but if we open the door to politics then everything's on the table. Football is a beautiful sport and shouldnt be tainted with the burden of ideological beliefs of anykind.

It doesn't achieve nothing. That you believe that is a pretty damning indicator that you are too stupid to understand that representation matters and that it is inherently valuable for a society to not be discriminatory.

"But this is discriminatory against religious people!" said the bigoted dipshit. Just like the racist person said that kneeling was discriminatory against their beliefs. Or that domestic abusers say that the Serie A lipstick is too political. Just because a dumbfeck backwards belief cites a religion as justification doesn't make it valid in the slightest.

 

[GlazersHater]

It doesn't achieve nothing. That you believe that is a pretty damning indicator that you are too stupid to understand that representation matters and that it is inherently valuable for a society to not be discriminatory.

"But this is discriminatory against religious people!" said the bigoted dipshit. Just like the racist person said that kneeling was discriminatory against their beliefs. Or that domestic abusers say that the Serie A lipstick is too political. Just because a dumbfeck backwards belief cites a religion as justification doesn't make it valid in the slightest.

Not interested in discussing anything with a person like you, insulting me doesn't make your argument any more convincing.

Have a good one

 

[UnitedRepublic]

It’s not homophobia if you refuse to represent something your not part of. All players didn’t have to take the knee for BLM why should people be forced to represent something while they are doing their job and it’s not a part of their job description. Some things shouldn’t be forced on people.

 

[Varane around town]

I have always supported LGBT rights. Believe that football has a homophobia problem and I would wear the rainbow armband if I was lucky enough to be a Premier League captain.

However, I also believe in individual choice and I don't think anyone being forced to wear anything they don't want to.

 

[Vitro]

It’s not been forced, hence it wasn’t worn.

The reasons for not wearing it though….I’m not sure there is any explanation other than homophobia.

 

[Bwuk]

If Morsy doesn’t want to wear the armband, is it not better that he doesn’t rather than have for lack of a better term, “fake support”?

I think it’s a bit backwards of him if I’m honest, but does it not dilute the message a bit when people who clearly don’t support the cause are forced too?

 

[Cheimoon]

Some random thoughts/questions.
Was anyone punished by the league for not kneeling?
Playing in the EPL requires that the players wear a team uniform. Except that the keeper can choose to wear what colours he wants. In N. American sports players are often required to wear matching footwear (sponsorship issues I presume) In the EPL players wear a variety of coloured footwear - their choice.
If players were asked to wear an armband with the word "Respect" written in Arabic would there be the same discussion here?
Obviously there are strong feelings being voiced here - but I suspect that 90% of punters don't give a fat d@mn.
Some teacups aren't large enough to handle a storm!

I have to say that I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. It feels like some flavour of whataboutism, but that's as far as I got.

So you must respect a campaign in the cost of not respecting a religion? Sounds very logical. Religion and belief are the most fundamental thing, on top of everything. When a campaign is not align with religion, then the campaign which actually is the fundamental problem, not the religion.

Need more players to stand up against this stupid campaign.

The impacts of forcing to wear it will be greater too. Just try it and see, many people silent about LGBTQ doesn't mean they are agree or supporting it especially in Asia. Forcing it will cause the club losing many fanbase from Asia. Big clubs won't be even dare.

Starting to get sick looking at this movement forcing everyone to do what they want.

By their logic, the religion and their principles must not enforce their lives but we our movement must be. Sounds very fair

Nope. Religion doesn't trump society. If your religion forbids you from fully accepting gay people (or people from different religions, or whatever it may be), then you need to adapt to modern society - not the other way round.

I deeply, DEEPLY, disagree with religion being a get-away-free card for any opinion you might have.

Football isnt about that, and like I said no one should be forced to support something they dont believe in. What actual real difference does it make for LGBTQ+ rights that footballers wear rainbow armbands? it achieves nothing. People thinking as radical as you just make some players say "well yeah whatever I'll wear it so I don't get critized" where's the value in that?

The value is in seeing people that you might idolize standing for acceptance. Whatever these people actually think doesn't matter, the message is there.

Having players forced to stand up for something they don't believe in makes ZERO difference. Specially with muslim players that we all know their stand on it because of their religion. Maybe for you their religion is worth nothing but many people take it very seriously, and again football is not about that. We should keep politics outside of it, whats next? people wearing pro or anti abortion signs? I know it sounds extreme, but if we open the door to politics then everything's on the table. Football is a beautiful sport and shouldnt be tainted with the burden of ideological beliefs of anykind.

Politics is everywhere already. Claims to keep it out of football always just refer to something specific people don't like; or were you saying the same thing about the Kick Out Racism campaigns, or when sports clubs try to get more kids to join (for social reasons), or any campaign that has been held over the decades?

And if you don't care for any of that, I'm sure you'd also draw a line somewhere. Say there was a country where all left-handed people are murdered. What would you think if FIFA would hold the world cup there? If you do care then, you draw a line as much as anyone - just apparently very lowly.

 

[Tomshark]

It doesn't achieve nothing. That you believe that is a pretty damning indicator that you are too stupid to understand that representation matters and that it is inherently valuable for a society to not be discriminatory.

"But this is discriminatory against religious people!" said the bigoted dipshit. Just like the racist person said that kneeling was discriminatory against their beliefs. Or that domestic abusers say that the Serie A lipstick is too political. Just because a dumbfeck backwards belief cites a religion as justification doesn't make it valid in the slightest.

No, it's not discriminatory. If due to their belief if they don't support a movement or campaign, how come it become discriminatory?

Also supporting this movement and campaign will not make me or us a forward thinker. There's nothing such a backward belief. It's a belief as simple as that.

Something you called forward thinking also not always correct or better than what you called backward belief/medieval things. Some things in the past better than what exist nowadays.

 

[giorno]

LGBTQ+ =/= gay. Gay only pertains to the first two letters.

Queerphobia would be a better term than homophobia here

Anyways, not knowing this players' reasons beyond the nebulous "religious beliefs", I'm entirely uninterested in this discussing this guy

The PL has a chance to show real commitment to this campaign by punishing Ipswich Town over this - which would be richly deserved. Not holding my breath for that

Anyways, feck Ipswich Town, hope they go bankrupt and disappear, disgusting club

 

[Grand Vizier]

Ask that newb. He knows i guess.

But i will answer to you. Sensitive topic so better to clear that up.
In this case? If you are club's captain then you accepted to represent club and be active in projects which club promotes. So you wear armband and respect your employer. Or give armband away.
In general my stance is selfish; for me football should stay football. Without all these support this and that stuff. Not proud on it, but it is like it is.

In general about gay rights? I support them of course.

So you agree with me, but for some reason you want to argue. I don't see the point in that.

Like you said, as a PL captain, you have a certain responsibility and it includes doing things you don't necessarily like, like every employer in the world. It is football, but it is a massive platform to raise awareness and support for some things that need to change.

What would you think if a PL captain refused to wear an anti-racism armband? Do you think that's okay because it is his opinion, or would you think he is an asshole?

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

The discussion about it earlier in the thread has me thinking, have there actually been examples of relatively high profile players (or their families) from very conservative religious countries suffering career/state persecution back home for wearing lgbt armbands? I suspect most countries are not nearly so hardline about stuff like this, or there would be a lot more refusals.

It reminded me of a Sardar Azmoun (Iran's leading striker of the past decade) incident at Zenit. There was some footage put up by someone on twitter of the team celebrating and fooling around in the locker room after they won the league (or maybe it was a cup, i can't quite remember), and in it Azmoun was bent over quite graphically simulating having sex with another player, both almost naked - a bit more than wearing an armband. So, he takes some abuse for it online, shaming the nation blah blah, as you might expect, but it didn't seem to go much further than that. He wasn't struck from the national team or incarcerated upon return as an ideal high-profile example to made of someone famous promoting a deviant lifestyle; his family weren't persecuted by enraged fans/officials. And this is the Iranian regime we're talking about! I know he was also among some players that directly spoke out against the government in support of Iranian women during recent protests; political stuff that repressive regimes definitely are more likely to clamp down, but again it seems that didn't draw consequences on the level of careers being ruined or criminal charges.

I mean, I get that it's maybe not an ideal situation for some of these players if a substantial amount of their friends/family (and possibly themselves too) are against whatever is being given a gesture of solidarity towards, but I have a hard time imagining there are many who are sweating with fear at the supposed consequences of being involved in the bare minimum gesture of wearing an armband along with the rest of the team. Far more likely they are prejudiced themselves, so want to show that it's against their beliefs, and/or just don't want to endure some relatively mild disapproval and banter from family and friends.

 

[HTG]

I‘m learning so much in this thread. I’m excited to learn that it’s the gay community’s fault, that the FA doesn’t do much for kids with disabilities, due to the high costs for clipboards promoting gay causes.
I’m also learning that it’s incredibly important to point out that nobody should be forced to wear an armband like this, even though that’s in no way what has happened. Just to be sure.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Guehi once again wrote on his armband and Morsy once again didn't wear it.

Feck them both.

They are homophobic, and brazenly so. I have no respect for them anymore.

 

[Fridge chutney]

In all honesty, refusing to wear it and writing religious messages on it probably brings a lot more attention to this campaign than if they'd just put it on.

They are proving why the campaign is still necessary.

 

[devilsadvoca8]

Advice to the mods, British, Europeans and those in general that don't understand growing up away from the West and an Asia, Africa, Middle East etc. Folks have their own cultural and religious beliefs and these are significantly important to them as much as LGBTQ are important to you. Religion to you isn't what it is to them. Folks live their lives with religion at the forefront while to you it's something on the side.

You want everyone to be tolerant of your beliefs while you pick and choose what you want to tolerate. If a Muslim player refuses to wear the armband it means it's against his beliefs both culturally and religiously. To openly support it isn't something he will do, doesn't mean if his teammate is gay, he wouldn't play with him or embrace him.

As a Muslim, I have friends who are gay, I may not agree with it but it doesn't mean I don't respect them as human beings and none of them whould ever make me wear a shirt or a hat or carry a rainbow flag. I've found that actual members of the community are actually more tolerant of the choice of Muslims not to adorn the rainbow than the ones not in the community. The ones affected are even more understanding than the "virtue signalling" crowd.

Let's understand each other, I don't hate you as a human being for your choice, but I don't have to participate in it, do you and respect me for doing me. You seem to love throwing the homophobic tag at folks without just understanding it's more in support of their beliefs than in protest of someone else's. Morsy didn't protest against LGBTQ by not wearing it, he did it in support of HIS beliefs. Thanks

 

[krazyrobus]

Advice to the mods, British, Europeans and those in general that don't understand growing up away from the West and an Asia, Africa, Middle East etc. Folks have their own cultural and religious beliefs and these are significantly important to them as much as LGBTQ are important to you. Religion to you isn't what it is to them. Folks live their lives with religion at the forefront while to you it's something on the side.

You want everyone to be tolerant of your beliefs while you pick and choose what you want to tolerate. If a Muslim player refuses to wear the armband it means it's against his beliefs both culturally and religiously. To openly support it isn't something he will do, doesn't mean if his teammate is gay, he would play with him or embrace him.

As a Muslim, I have friends who are gay, I may not agree with it but it doesn't mean I don't respect them as human beings and none of them whould ever make me wear a shirt or a hat or carry a rainbow flag. I've found that actual members of the community are actually more tolerant of the choice of Muslims not to adorn the rainbow than the ones not in the community. The ones affected are even more understanding than the "virtue signalling" crowd.

Let's understand each other, I don't hate you as a human being for your choice, but I don't have to participate in it, do you and respect me for doing me. You seem to love throwing the homophobic tag at folks without just understanding it's more in support of their beliefs than in protest of someone else's. Morsy didn't protest against LGBTQ by not wearing it, he did it in support of HIS beliefs. Thanks

Perfectly said, this LGBTQ social media mafia wants gestapo like compliance whereas actual regular LGBTQ folk don't AF .

 

[Cloud7]

So you must respect a campaign in the cost of not respecting a religion? Sounds very logical. Religion and belief are the most fundamental thing, on top of everything. When a campaign is not align with religion, then the campaign which actually is the fundamental problem, not the religion.

Need more players to stand up against this stupid campaign.

The impacts of forcing to wear it will be greater too. Just try it and see, many people silent about LGBTQ doesn't mean they are agree or supporting it especially in Asia. Forcing it will cause the club losing many fanbase from Asia. Big clubs won't be even dare.

Starting to get sick looking at this movement forcing everyone to do what they want.

By their logic, the religion and their principles must not enforce their lives but we our movement must be. Sounds very fair

Religion is worthless by any metric. Cry about it.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

Dear Captain, please fill out questionnaire and drop it in pigeon hole.

A/ Do you want footballers to feel welcome in the community and safe enough to come out, and for kids to get into careers in football without worry that they might have to hide an important part of their identity? If yes, move to B. If no, move to E.

B/ Regardless of how you feel about the effectiveness of the campaign's methods, do you think we should be doing *something* about point A? If yes, move to C. If no, move to E.

C/ Oh good, you support the campaign. You alright with changing the colour of the armband for a bit to show that support? Maybe it helps a bit. If yes, move to D. If no, move to E.

D/ Nice one.

E/ You're a knob, Captain.

 

[Lebo]

What would you say if I said ‘I don’t agree with black people being allowed to vote’? Would you say that’s fine because it’s my opinion?

No that’s like “ If you don’t take the knee it means you are racist “ which is total rubbish.

 

[Grand Vizier]

No that’s like “ If you don’t take the knee it means you are racist “ which is total rubbish.

So why would you, as a non-racist, not take the knee? What could possibly come out of that?

 

[Lebo]

Religion is worthless by any metric. Cry about it.

Well religious people tend to suffer mental illness, less alcoholism, less divorce compared to the general population. So you are wrong on that one. Most studies I read were from Christian societies so I’m not sure about other religions.

And since you are telling around 6 billion people that their belief system is worthless, how exactly do you plan on getting them to support your course at the same time?

 

[Lebo]

So why would you, as a non-racist, not take the knee? What could possibly come out of that?

Maybe because you believe they are going about it the wrong way or you think taking the knee is worthless which it is by the way. You can’t live your life expecting people to tow your line.

 

[Bole Top]

So why would you, as a non-racist, not take the knee? What could possibly come out of that?

freedom not to is the good enough reason.

our whole NT lead by Modric refused to kneel and no one even entertained the thought that they were racists.

 

[Cloud7]

Well religious people tend to suffer mental illness, less alcoholism, less divorce compared to the general population. So you are wrong on that one. Most studies I read were from Christian societies so I’m not sure about other religions.

And since you are telling around 6 billion people that their belief system is worthless, how exactly do you plan on getting them to support your course at the same time?

I don't need to get anyone to support my course. Many religious people are perfectly okay with LGBTQ stuff. If your ideology is so extreme that you cannot accept those people, and you actually believe in that, then for me you are a lost cause.

I simply do not see how a book based on a divine entity that may or may not be real can hold more weight than real life, living people here on earth. If you can put your book over real people, then as far as I am concerned there is no getting through to someone like that or getting them to support anything, so there is nothing to discuss, we just wait for your hardline ideology to die out.

Ultimately this discussion boils down to:

Religious beliefs vs Real life people

One of these is certainly real, one may be real. Whichever one you view as more important speaks volumes of your character.

 

[Andycoleno9]

So you agree with me, but for some reason you want to argue. I don't see the point in that.

Like you said, as a PL captain, you have a certain responsibility and it includes doing things you don't necessarily like, like every employer in the world. It is football, but it is a massive platform to raise awareness and support for some things that need to change.

What would you think if a PL captain refused to wear an anti-racism armband? Do you think that's okay because it is his opinion, or would you think he is an asshole?

I explained already what captain should do. But i simply can't agree with your general stance; "support it or you are trash". You even tried to label me as bigot or whatever you meant just because i don't agree with you.
I just think there is huge difference being openly against something compared with not supporting something. I think that nobody should be forced to support something. No matter how positive and noble that cause is. People should not be forced to explain why they not do/support something and automatically being labelled as "human trash" just because they don't want to do it.

For example in this case; maybe (not saying it is but lets use it as example) a player is a good and noble person who does support gay rights but his family doesn't (for whatever reasons) and that player doesn't want to go against his family with supporting gay rights in public. So, he is not "trash person" as you call him but he just chose to not brake relationship with his family.
Now, it is easy for you and me to say; feck that kind of bigot family but for him, it is different perspective. This is just one small example.

Support whatever you want but leave other people to choose will they do it. IF that person openly says; "I hate gays" THEN you can call him trash person. And in that case i will join you in that.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

Advice to the mods, British, Europeans and those in general that don't understand growing up away from the West and an Asia, Africa, Middle East etc. Folks have their own cultural and religious beliefs and these are significantly important to them as much as LGBTQ are important to you. Religion to you isn't what it is to them. Folks live their lives with religion at the forefront while to you it's something on the side.

You want everyone to be tolerant of your beliefs while you pick and choose what you want to tolerate. If a Muslim player refuses to wear the armband it means it's against his beliefs both culturally and religiously. To openly support it isn't something he will do, doesn't mean if his teammate is gay, he wouldn't play with him or embrace him.

As a Muslim, I have friends who are gay, I may not agree with it but it doesn't mean I don't respect them as human beings and none of them whould ever make me wear a shirt or a hat or carry a rainbow flag. I've found that actual members of the community are actually more tolerant of the choice of Muslims not to adorn the rainbow than the ones not in the community. The ones affected are even more understanding than the "virtue signalling" crowd.

Let's understand each other, I don't hate you as a human being for your choice, but I don't have to participate in it, do you and respect me for doing me. You seem to love throwing the homophobic tag at folks without just understanding it's more in support of their beliefs than in protest of someone else's. Morsy didn't protest against LGBTQ by not wearing it, he did it in support of HIS beliefs. Thanks

Personally I don't want everyone to be tolerant of my beliefs. Beliefs can be harmful through what they manifest into. If I have a daft belief, like green elephants are chasing me everywhere I go, I'd want someone to challenge that for my own good. And if I have a belief harmful to others, like who should and shouldn't take who to bed or get married and so on, I'd want that to be challenged even more. Living in a tolerant society doesn't mean we should tolerate anything. It doesn't matter if the belief comes from religion or not, if it's causing harm let's challenge it. That's part of how we keep fighting homophobia. Wearing an armband is such a tiny gesture, nobody is forcing it but you have to value your religious beliefs over your fellow man to not wear it in the situation of a PL footballer, and then what's the point of religion if it's not about being a good person towards others?