Hojlund or Zirkzee as first choice striker?

We need a new striker, but between Hojlund and Zirkzee it's obviously Hojlund. But until we bring in a new striker it almost doesn't matter whether Hojlund or Zirkzee start. The goals will have to come from other players.
 
Sandikan said:
11seconds maybe. He's not a competitive sprinter in 10secs. Even Walcock wasn't that was he?

You also have to factor that we've absolutely run him into the ground and don't often give him the chance to properly open up max pace.
Click to expand...
I don't know what's happened to him in terms of set up and tactics, when he was at Atalanta he was an off the shoulder player making runs in behind and not a hold up target man as that isn't his strengths.

Your first touch is easier when you're coming onto the ball rather than gathering it with someone on your back.

I was hoping we'd play more of a wi ger focused 3-4-3 so he could make those runs into the channels but then if he does there's nobody in the box usually.
 
Can we get someone like Chicarito again...? Always sniffing around goal, decent general play, and most importantly cheap transfer fee.
 
Clearly Højlund, but the fact that some seriously argue Zirkzee who isn’t even a proper nine, shows how much we need to improve our striking options.

Højlund is strong, athletic and very fast - easily faster than VVd on a couple of occasions, but his first touch often lets him down. Sometimes impressively clinical, sometimes loses his head.
 
ClassOf'99 said:
I don't know what's happened to him in terms of set up and tactics, when he was at Atalanta he was an off the shoulder player making runs in behind and not a hold up target man as that isn't his strengths.

Your first touch is easier when you're coming onto the ball rather than gathering it with someone on your back.

I was hoping we'd play more of a wi ger focused 3-4-3 so he could make those runs into the channels but then if he does there's nobody in the box usually.
Click to expand...
It's no great mystery - he was mostly coming off the bench or starting for an hour to play next to another centre forward in a 352. He's been bumped up to starting singular line leading focal point in the Premier League and lo and behold it's a harder job.

He is (or ought to be) about where Garnacho was in the second half of ETH's first season. Dangerous, direct option off the bench against tired legs and very capable in those circumstances. Outside of those, he's going to struggle. Moreso the more knocks his knees and noggin get from protracted battles with PL defenders at early doors.
 
As tough a job as Hojlund faces here, it doesn't bear thinking of how we'd do if he was out for any sort of time.
Rashy is being Rashy and Zirkzee up front would be unthinkable in all games bar versus the bottom 3.
 
I actually slightly prefer what I'm seeing from Zirkzee than Hojlund at the minute.

Obviously neither are doing enough right now.
 
ItDoesntEvenMata said:
I remember when the Atlanta coach said he could run 100m on grass in 10 seconds and once I'd seen him for about 15 minutes I could tell that he was nowhere near that level
Click to expand...
Nobody can run 100 m on grass at 10 seconds. Warholm, the world’s fastest hurdles runnes has a record of 10,3 or thereabouts when he actively ran 100m. That’s with studs.

Højlund is very fast, which he showed a Liverpool. Konate is fast but couldn’t close him down at all for his run through on Allisson, and Højlund outpaced VVD two or three times. 10 seconds flat he is not. Below 11, maybe. I read somewhere that Walcott ran at 10,3? Sounds too fast?
 
Rossa said:
Why? Like honestly?
Click to expand...
Not the guy you posted, but for me Zirkzee is a better stylistic fit. He needs to improve his intensity and work rate for sure, but talking purely about style, I prefer him to Hojlund as the #9 in Amorim's system. Zirkzee can play with his back to goal, hold it up, bring others into play and drop deep - he is effectively a false nine but with some target man qualities, and good passing.

Hojlund is the more traditional striker, he is strong and fast, but equally he hasnt shown those strikers instincts, and there are questions over whether he is technically good enough.

Assuming Zirkzee gets a bit of confidence and responds to Amorim's coaching, he is a great option to play in front of a pair of #10s who will be constantly overlapping and interchanging. Ball goes up to Zirkzee, he holds it up and feeds it through to an onrushing Bruno or similar, like a playmaker - something I think would work really well in Amorim's 3-4-3.
 
Whenever I see one playing, I want the other one to start; neither is good enough. Zirkzee seems more talented technique-wise, but he lacks the fight and determination to be a proper striker, while Hojlund has the aggression and physicality but his technique is really poor. If we could combine both players, we would still have an average/poor striker; that's how bad both are.

We urgently need a top striker to fill out the position. I have more faith in Hojlund actually developing into a proper striker someday, but I have to confess that faith gets weaker and weaker with each game that goes by.
 
We really need a new 9, but out of the 2, it's Zirzkee by a country mile. He does more in his 10 minutes cameos than Hojlund does in 80 minutes. At least he links up with others and is technically better.
 
Rossa said:
Why? Like honestly?
Click to expand...
There's an argument to be made that Zirkzee with runners off of him can be very useful (Garnacho in this case). Technically better and more teamplay oriented. But ONLY in a team where someone like Bruno plays as a CM and you have Amad/Garnacho running off of JZ. If he is expected to be the spearhead of the attack it's worthless.
 
Zirkzee functions better as a no 10 but as of now, his ability is quite low to lead a premier league squad as a no 10.

Hojlund is more used to his no 9 role. He does get lethal at times. And sometimes he is also a goal poacher.

The no 9 role belongs to Hojlund.
 
Is it just out of sympathy that some suggest Zirkzee. Jeez. The man has been playing horrible, got some abuse, and now he is showered with love. I don't mind you support a player going through a rough period, but the problem with this fanbase is to many applaud and celebrate shit just to be in the good book.

Højlund has dissapointed me a lot this season. United need a new quality striker asap. Until then Højlund is the best fit.
 
Eagle_eye said:
We really need a new 9, but out of the 2, it's Zirzkee by a country mile. He does more in his 10 minutes cameos than Hojlund does in 80 minutes. At least he links up with others and is technically better.
Click to expand...
That often is the case, but the same is true when you swap them. Whichever of them starts plays poorly (if not downright terribly), then the other will come on and normally do a decent job for their 10-20 minute cameo.
 
Hojlund is my preference. I agree zirkzee has more technique and can link up play better.
However i dont see any fire in Zirkzees belly, his pressing is half hearted. He has a laid back persona that can look lazy. He is not a centre forward but more a 10 and thats not what we need.

Hojlund is not great at holding up the ball, his first touch can be poor. However he makes good runs , presses well and works very hard. He has passion and desire and he can finish well if given some service.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
There's an argument to be made that Zirkzee with runners off of him can be very useful (Garnacho in this case). Technically better and more teamplay oriented. But ONLY in a team where someone like Bruno plays as a CM and you have Amad/Garnacho running off of JZ. If he is expected to be the spearhead of the attack it's worthless.
Click to expand...

I hear that argument, but very rarely has Zirkzee shown any such technical qualities whilst playing for United. From what I have seen thus far, Zirkzee is just not a good enough player. I really wish to be proven wrong, and I am all for giving players at least a season to prove themselves, but his technique, passing, pace, strength, stamina are all underwhelming thus far.
 
Walrus said:
Not the guy you posted, but for me Zirkzee is a better stylistic fit. He needs to improve his intensity and work rate for sure, but talking purely about style, I prefer him to Hojlund as the #9 in Amorim's system. Zirkzee can play with his back to goal, hold it up, bring others into play and drop deep - he is effectively a false nine but with some target man qualities, and good passing.

Hojlund is the more traditional striker, he is strong and fast, but equally he hasnt shown those strikers instincts, and there are questions over whether he is technically good enough.

Assuming Zirkzee gets a bit of confidence and responds to Amorim's coaching, he is a great option to play in front of a pair of #10s who will be constantly overlapping and interchanging. Ball goes up to Zirkzee, he holds it up and feeds it through to an onrushing Bruno or similar, like a playmaker - something I think would work really well in Amorim's 3-4-3.
Click to expand...
But when has he shown this good passing? Against Newcastle he came off at 32 minutes with 33% passing accuracy and the ball kept bouncing off him. He never wins a header - never! He looks like a body builder but never wins any duels. The lack of intensity may simply be his downfall. He may well be very technically gifted in a slower league, but that matters little if he cannot cut it when the tempo is upped.

Would you honestly argue that Zirkzee for United is a good target man and a good passer?
 
Both strikers are below the level but I think Hojlund has the better attributes to succeed.

Zirkzee needs to go back to Italy. I feel people backing him are doing so for reason that have nothing to do with football. Which is odd as far as I’m concerned. However as we improve as a football club maybe we will stop these silly divisions we have and the phrase “top reds”. It’s doesn’t even mean what it meant when it was originally brought up. Now it’s just a term to describe people who disagree with the minority view.
 
RedIan said:
Hojlund is my preference. I agree zirkzee has more technique and can link up play better.
However i dont see any fire in Zirkzees belly, his pressing is half hearted. He has a laid back persona that can look lazy. He is not a centre forward but more a 10 and thats not what we need.

Hojlund is not great at holding up the ball, his first touch can be poor. However he makes good runs , presses well and works very hard. He has passion and desire and he can finish well if given some service.
Click to expand...
I think Zirkzee looks lazier than he actually is. The other day I was checking out the stats of the two of them in the league this season to see how many shots they were taking and I noticed something that really surprised me. Their defensive stats were basically the opposite of what I would have thought. Hojlund's defence stats are extremely poor, barely ever winning the ball back at all (literally amongst the worst in the big 5 leagues) while Zirkzee is well above average in everything except at making tackles in the attacking third. So he's actually doing a lot more defensive work and winning the ball back all over the field a lot more than the vast majority of strikers, except in the final third where he's one of the worst (Hojlund is slightly better at that one aspect but still way below average).

The high pressing is so eye catching that everyone sees Zirkzee is very poor at that, but the fact he's making so many tackles and so many interceptions everywhere else does show that the narrative of him being extremely lazy is a bit harsh. And thinking back I do remember quite a lot of times that he dropped back and won it in midfield.

This season is a relatively small sample size (Hojlund has played about 11 matches worth of minutes while Zirkzee has 8) so I checked out their league performances last season as well. Hojlund was a little better while still being well below average, but Zirkzee stayed about the same so was still much better. Actually, last season he was good at making tackles in the attacking third as well so I'm not sure what has happened there (maybe just the difference between the Serie A and the PL?).
 
MadDogg said:
I think Zirkzee looks lazier than he actually is. The other day I was checking out the stats of the two of them in the league this season to see how many shots they were taking and I noticed something that really surprised me. Their defensive stats were basically the opposite of what I would have thought. Hojlund's defence stats are extremely poor, barely ever winning the ball back at all (literally amongst the worst in the big 5 leagues) while Zirkzee is well above average in everything except at making tackles in the attacking third. So he's actually doing a lot more defensive work and winning the ball back all over the field a lot more than the vast majority of strikers, except in the final third where he's one of the worst (Hojlund is slightly better at that one aspect but still way below average).

The high pressing is so eye catching that everyone sees Zirkzee is very poor at that, but the fact he's making so many tackles and so many interceptions everywhere else does show that the narrative of him being extremely lazy is a bit harsh. And thinking back I do remember quite a lot of times that he dropped back and won it in midfield.

This season is a relatively small sample size (Hojlund has played about 11 matches worth of minutes while Zirkzee has 8) so I checked out their league performances last season as well. Hojlund was a little better while still being well below average, but Zirkzee stayed about the same so was still much better. Actually, last season he was good at making tackles in the attacking third as well so I'm not sure what has happened there (maybe just the difference between the Serie A and the PL?).
Click to expand...

Great post because i noticed this aswell.

Zirkzee isnt lazy, ive kept an eye on his pressing and he actually tries really hard - however Zirkzee is actually quite slow so it looks like he cant be arsed to press when actually he cant high press because he is slow. He is like a trying hard version of Berbatov who both lacked pace.

Usually for this you will see that Zirkzee tries to make the high press as much as he can but sometimes drops quite deep because he can be more useful defensively that way.

Hojlund is the better high presser but ive been surprised that even his pace has gone down a level it seems compared to last season

Garnacho-Zirkzee-Amad
​
Is probably my preferred line up with Garnacho and amad almost playing like the Rashfords of each side as we saw when Zirkzee and Rashford combined quite well vs Everton.
 
Shaw's Shank Redemption said:
Great post because i noticed this aswell.

Zirkzee isnt lazy, ive kept an eye on his pressing and he actually tries really hard - however Zirkzee is actually quite slow so it looks like he cant be arsed to press when actually he cant high press because he is slow. He is like a trying hard version of Berbatov who both lacked pace.

Usually for this you will see that Zirkzee tries to make the high press as much as he can but sometimes drops quite deep because he can be more useful defensively that way.

Hojlund is the better high presser but ive been surprised that even his pace has gone down a level it seems compared to last season

Garnacho-Zirkzee-Amad
​
Is probably my preferred line up with Garnacho and amad almost playing like the Rashfords of each side as we saw when Zirkzee and Rashford combined quite well vs Everton.
Click to expand...

They are both slow for their first 4 or 5 steps. Hojlund has some pace once he gets going. Zirkzee really does not. However, quickness is much more important than speed in football so Hojlund's pace is not that useful. Zirkzee is better at holding up the ball and is a much better passer. Neither has shown to be much a goal scorer. We need a better striker this month.
 
Rossa said:
But when has he shown this good passing? Against Newcastle he came off at 32 minutes with 33% passing accuracy and the ball kept bouncing off him. He never wins a header - never! He looks like a body builder but never wins any duels. The lack of intensity may simply be his downfall. He may well be very technically gifted in a slower league, but that matters little if he cannot cut it when the tempo is upped.

Would you honestly argue that Zirkzee for United is a good target man and a good passer?
Click to expand...

I think he has absolutely shown good passing at times this season. It’s clear at the moment that he is bereft of confidence and isn’t playing well, but there are plenty of YouTube videos showing his passing range and what he is capable of.

I think it’s too early to write him off personally. He’s 23, moved to a new country, new league etc… give the lad a bit of time to find his feet. Do I think he will ever be competing for the Ballon d’Or? No. But can he be a solid striker in Amorims system? Yes.
 
I honestly hope that we can offload Zirkzee in January. Just a waste of space in the squad. I don't actually remember seeing worse attacker in red (maybe Weghorst but he was on loan), despite i support United since the mid 80's. The guy is slow as a summer traffic jam, has no skills to go one on one with the defender and has absolultely zero killer instict in front of the goal. I don't say Hojlund is a genius but at least he's got speed, strength and determination. In a good system, fed by good wingers Hojliund could easily be a 15-20 goal striker. Easily. But amongst these mediocre players he cannot shine, in fact no one can. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disappointed with Zirkzee as after his poor scoring record in Italy (58 matches 14 goals) i got exactly what i expected from him. Nothing. I'm disappointed because nothing has changed at the club. Expensive, poor signing.
 
Hojlund has been with the club for 18 months and has had ample opportunities to prove himself and we're still waiting. His performances this season have been underwhelming to say the least. We don't know what he's capable of, as he only had a handful of games in Italy and was mainly a bench player, he cost £72m and and for our number 9 he's simply not good enough. People who think he'll turn good have nothing to base that prediction on. Zirzkee on the other hand, cost us nearly half what Hojlund cost, already has more league goals and assists than Hojlund this season, has played less minutes, we know what he's capable of as he was young player of the year in one of Europe's top leagues, and was chosen in the team of the season there and add to all that he's being linked with some of the top teams in Italy which shows how much he's valued. I don't think Hojlund has been linked with any team, there has been zero interest and I honestly don't see him starting for any other team in the Premier league. People preferring Hojlund must be doing it for non football reasons which is sad really.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.