Hip Hop History

Boss said:
To be fair, I was joking about Drake being better than Pac:lol:
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He's just so bloody sensitive about what people call hop-hop and good, he's like KRS-One on Redcafe.

Only thing is, KRS called Drake and Kid Cudi "A positive sound for our culture", to my FACE.

Hectic, you are not the end-all-be-all, everything you say is right, bearer of deciding everything that is and is not hip-hop... Hip-hop is a culture that is defined by going against the grain and being different, you're restricting what defines hip-hop by calling music "Shit" because you don't like it.

Wayne did 1.1 Million, Drake will do a Million plus, deal with it.
 
Anderson Searl said:
He's just so bloody sensitive about what people call hop-hop and good, he's like KRS-One on Redcafe.

Only thing is, KRS called Drake and Kid Cudi "A positive sound for our culture", to my FACE.

Hectic, you are not the end-all-be-all, everything you say is right, bearer of deciding everything that is and is not hip-hop... Hip-hop is a culture that is defined by going against the grain and being different, you're restricting what defines hip-hop by calling music "Shit" because you don't like it.

Wayne did 1.1 Million, Drake will do a Million plus, deal with it.
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Drake is hot man, he makes real songs and is a brilliant song writer. The hate doesn't bother me because they will turn into believers when Thank me later drops, I have no doubts about it.

If there was anybody to bring hip hop forward, I'm glad it's him.
 
Anderson Searl said:
Sometimes I do not understand you one bit... You honestly need to just grow up and accept people have different tastes, and accept that the genre of music you seem to have claimed as YOURS is EVOLVING.
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And if someone makes a statement I think is absurd, I can't comment back? Of course I can. I also recognised his humour, which is why I used the smiley and said he would be his slave in the afterlife, not entirely serious.

Anderson Searl said:
He's just so bloody sensitive about what people call hop-hop and good, he's like KRS-One on Redcafe.

Only thing is, KRS called Drake and Kid Cudi "A positive sound for our culture", to my FACE.

Hectic, you are not the end-all-be-all, everything you say is right, bearer of deciding everything that is and is not hip-hop... Hip-hop is a culture that is defined by going against the grain and being different, you're restricting what defines hip-hop by calling music "Shit" because you don't like it.

Wayne did 1.1 Million, Drake will do a Million plus, deal with it.
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I couldn't give ten fecks what KRS One said to your face, I don't even rate him. That's not saying 'I HECTIC DO NOT RATE KRS ONE, HE IS SHIT'. It's called an opinion, not speaking for everyone, but for myself.

I've never claimed to be the be all and end all, but if someone claims that an artist is currently better then all others, or makes a strong statement about them, can I not argue otherwise? I'm not restricting anything either you fool, I'm simply saying what I feel is shit, not asking for support, not trying to change anything, I can call artists shit, so what?

Wayne and Drake could sell 5 billion and I still wouldn't change my mind. It seems like you have a problem with people criticizing artists you love. It's a two way thing Anderson.
 
And if I'm sensitive, then you are damn near bitchlike about this.

I think you will find many people do not class the above as Hip-Hop, or at least, nothing to do with the terms like 'legends' being thrown about. Not everyone has the same opinion about everything.
 
:lol:

I don't want to take this any further. Anderson, you obviously think I care that much about it to the point where I'm stopping Hip-Hop from developing and that I believe my word, is in fact, stronger then bond. So be it, I don't want to keep arguing about this, take my comments in whatever way you like. I, like you, have had my say above, let's leave it at that?

Just remember this, Drake was born 3/5th's retard, and that's no laughing matter.
 
Hectic said:
:lol:

I don't want to take this any further. Anderson, you obviously think I care that much about it to the point where I'm stopping Hip-Hop from developing.
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To be fair, Hip Hop ain't been the same since 9th March 2010, 19:45
 
I remember it well, a mad man said something, his words were so cruel, so powerful and all-believing that all children dropped dead, pandemonium broke out, families were torn apart, Deco's eyebrows even levelled-out, such was the destruction of those malicious words.

They say at that exact time the world carried on spinning, it carried on spinning, but we all stopped living, inside anyway.
 
Drake is awful from what I've heard here. I can't really see why people are so excited by him, there's far better mc's around.

Eminem was always seen as a bit of a Nas rip-off on the Infinite, then a Cage copyist for the Slim Shady album, there was a bit of beef at the time (and a few diss tracks as well)

 
There's always "better" rapper then the ones more popular, but calling them shit because you don't like them is more wrong than right.

I won't continue Hectic because I enjoy the fact you have passion for hip-hop, but some of the shit you say just isn't right, that is all.
 
I'm calling them shit because I think they are shit. Obviously they have talent, this doesn't need to be said though, the position they are in is testament to their talent. Clearly Drake, Wayne etc are clever musicians, but if I feel the music they make is shit, what am I meant to say? I'm sure you've called artists shit before, maybe it was Britney, or nickleback, or Andy Cole, but they were still shit to you.

I think you are looking way too much into it Anderson. I don't literally mean they are shit, as in talentless fools that anyone could copy, but shit in the sense I just don't like their music. And if a comparison is made, to someones music I do like, I would like to be able to argue that.

That's how I feel about the above, I'm not trying to make my opinion everyone elses, fair enough if you class them higher then other artists, but I shouldn't have to change my opinion just because someone else can't accept that.
 
And they aren't shit because I don't like them. I don't like them because I feel their music is shit*

*Not very good**

**cnuting awful
 
Yeah, you are right, the best part is at 5:17. That's when it starts to get good.
 
Hectic said:
Yeah, you are right, the best part is at 5:17. That's when it starts to get good.
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:lol:

15245087.jpg
 
Boss said:
Off Drake's new album
Drizzy Drake is better than Biggy,Pac and Big L put together

I joke I joke!!!!!
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I'm glad I saw the white writing otherwise that would be a blindingly stupid statement made about an average rapper.

Anderson Searl said:
Sometimes I do not understand you one bit... You honestly need to just grow up and accept people have different tastes, and accept that the genre of music you seem to have claimed as YOURS is EVOLVING.
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Sure hip hop(or to call it more correctly rap as this isn't actually a debate about hip hop) is evolving but into what. I sure hope drake isn't the future of rap as I don't think rap evolving into rude pop music helps the movement I grew up with.

Boss said:
Drake is hot man, he makes real songs and is a brilliant song writer. The hate doesn't bother me because they will turn into believers when Thank me later drops, I have no doubts about it.

If there was anybody to bring hip hop forward, I'm glad it's him.
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God I hope not, especially as there as so many more young and much more talented Mc's out there. I'd sooner call Lupe Fiasco the future than this guy.
 
BAMSOLA said:
Sure hip hop(or to call it more correctly rap as this isn't actually a debate about hip hop) is evolving but into what. I sure hope drake isn't the future of rap as I don't think rap evolving into rude pop music helps the movement I grew up with.
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The fact is, he'll be the only rapper this year to sell over a million copies in a week (Unless Dr.Dre drops) and his face and voice will be everywhere... He is the present and the future.
 
Anderson Searl said:
The fact is, he'll be the only rapper this year to sell over a million copies in a week (Unless Dr.Dre drops) and his face and voice will be everywhere... He is the present and the future.
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Yes but again selling units doesn't make you the future of rap.

Soldja boy was probably at some point one of the best selling rappers on the planet, did that make him the future of rap?

Admittedly Drake is nowhere near as dire as him but having your face everywhere and selling over a million makes you the most popular rapper at that point in time nothing more.

Two things that people generally look for from the future of any musical movement be it rap or otherwise is an artist who is genuinely talented when compared to his contemporaries(drake isn't) and has a fresh sound(drake doesn't).

Drake is ok but he is nothing special and for me to accept somebody as the future of a musical movement he has to be something special, however luckily for Drake my opinion doesn't amount to much if the majority blindly believe that he equals progress.
 
BAMSOLA said:
Yes but again selling units doesn't make you the future of rap.
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Lil' Wayne, Eminem, 50 Cent, etc say otherwise... Let's be honest, Royce Da 5'9" is the most talented and skilled rapper alive right now, but your mother won't know who he is... Mothers, grandparents, etc know who Drake is because of his music and his sales, so when his facei sp lastered everywhere, and his career is just starting, then yes, he is the future.

Hate to break it to you.

BAMSOLA said:
Soldja boy was probably at some point one of the best selling rappers on the planet, did that make him the future of rap?
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Yes, actually he's as popular now as he was before, he's got plenty of charting singles and he's now shifting his focus to production and has featured here & there... He took what he had and turned it from one-hit to a career, his "future" is right now.

BAMSOLA said:
Admittedly Drake is nowhere near as dire as him but having your face everywhere and selling over a million makes you the most popular rapper at that point in time nothing more.
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So again, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, etc are nothing more?

BAMSOLA said:
Two things that people generally look for from the future of any musical movement be it rap or otherwise is an artist who is genuinely talented when compared to his contemporaries(drake isn't) and has a fresh sound(drake doesn't).
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No, he took a sound that's popular and put his own spin on it, songs people can relate to and "sing along" to... This guy is sought after by everyone for features, he's featured already in a NUMBER of top songs and singles, and had touch on every different angle (West coast, southern hip-hop, r&b, etc)

And he can actually sing, how is that not different... Him and Kid Cudi are a cut above.

BAMSOLA said:
Drake is ok but he is nothing special and for me to accept somebody as the future of a musical movement he has to be something special, however luckily for Drake my opinion doesn't amount to much if the majority blindly believe that he equals progress.
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What is progress though? What are we supposed to progress to? Indie artists being more popular than Young Jeezy? Is that progress?

The genre doesn't progress or regress, it changes... I can listen to Drake the same way I can listen to Aesop Rock... Doesn't work like that for everyone on this planet, which is why Drake is a household name in multiple countries (And better yet, Lil' Wayne is the most popular and trafficed musical artist not named Taylor Swift) and the likes of who we've named are not.
 
Nominated for a Grammy
So Far Gone EP sold more than 92% of music released in 2009
3 Top 20 singles, including a #2 single for Best I ever had and a charted song on pure buzz for "I'm goin' in"
2 Top 10 singles with his group Young Money
6 Charted features with the likes of Jamie Foxx, Kanye West, Mary J.Blige, Timbaland, etc

Love him or hate him, the track record is impressive, and before an album has even come out? Try and tell me he doesn't have a future...
 
BAMSOLA said:
Yes but again selling units doesn't make you the future of rap.

Soldja boy was probably at some point one of the best selling rappers on the planet, did that make him the future of rap?

Admittedly Drake is nowhere near as dire as him but having your face everywhere and selling over a million makes you the most popular rapper at that point in time nothing more.

Two things that people generally look for from the future of any musical movement be it rap or otherwise is an artist who is genuinely talented when compared to his contemporaries(drake isn't) and has a fresh sound(drake doesn't).

Drake is ok but he is nothing special and for me to accept somebody as the future of a musical movement he has to be something special, however luckily for Drake my opinion doesn't amount to much if the majority blindly believe that he equals progress.
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Bamsola you have it spot on.

And Royce is certainly not the best rapper alive at the moment. Each to their own though. Drake has a future because he is selling a lot of records right now, and as you say, he is a a household name in many places, but that doesn't just make him the future of Hip-Hop, not that I even relate his music to the genre.

Hell, Triple 6 Mafia won an oscar and at one point were extremely popular, but that didn't make them the face of a movement, or a shift in the genre. It just means at the time a lot of people were feeling their music. It doesn't prove an indication of the direction the genre is going, I would say far from it.

And it's progress for him on a personal level, or perhaps even rap, but not for Hip-Hop. In 5 years time I hope we can look back on Drake as a blip.
 
Been a pleasure was supposed to be the first single with Jeezy of TM 103, someone leaked Drakes part.

That beat is unreal on a good system
 
Hectic said:
Bamsola you have it spot on.

And Royce is certainly not the best rapper alive at the moment. Each to their own though. Drake has a future because he is selling a lot of records right now, and as you say, he is a a household name in many places, but that doesn't just make him the future of Hip-Hop, not that I even relate his music to the genre.

Hell, Triple 6 Mafia won an oscar and at one point were extremely popular, but that didn't make them the face of a movement, or a shift in the genre. It just means at the time a lot of people were feeling their music. It doesn't prove an indication of the direction the genre is going, I would say far from it.

And it's progress for him on a personal level, or perhaps even rap, but not for Hip-Hop. In 5 years time I hope we can look back on Drake as a blip.
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*Sigh*

So enlighten me oh holy one, what makes you "The future"

Or is it even possible... Lil' Wayne was the future in the 90's and look at him now, one of the most popular entertainers in the world...
 
Anderson Searl said:
*Sigh*

So enlighten me oh holy one, what makes you "The future"

Or is it even possible... Lil' Wayne was the future in the 90's and look at him now, one of the most popular entertainers in the world...
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Why can't you accept an alternative view point without having to resort to belittling me? What makes your opinion any more correct then my one? I'm still saying the same thing I've said from the start, these guys are not making Hip-Hop history, they aren't even bringing the genre forward or taking it to a new direction because one, they are not original, two it isn't even the same music.

It's pop/rap/r&b that they are 'developing' or becoming the future of.

Now, either accept that as my opinion, or feck off. I don't care if you don't agree with me, that's more then fine Anderson, but don't just dismiss what I say with this 'Holy' bullshit just because I have a difference in opinion. I am not saying my opinion is fact, far from it, but I do argue with a formed opinion, because that's what I believe I have. Something that a lot of people in this thread have said, in more of less the same words:
Giggzinho said:
lil wayne & hip hop history, wtf??
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Giggzinho said:
the guys a fake, doesnt write his own lyrics, got owned on a live freestyle, birdmans his sugar daddy, how the hell could he be part of an kind of hip hop history??
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Giggzinho said:
nas, jayz, eminem and in the future you think 'weezy' who half of his rhymes are him making funny noises, his lyrics dont even make sense, is going to compare to those legends, ok lol you got me
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Boss said:
Arghhhhhhh you got a point:lol:

He still has many,many great songs though! It might be because he makes so many but facts are facts!
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Giggzinho said:
each to their own, the guys made millions and millions, fair play to him but so many other rappers are leagues ahead of him
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Stretch said:
Lil Wayne is decent rapper who had a decent album with Tha Carter III but I won't call him a hip-hop legend. Drake is better in terms of rhymes and flow ability so to call this hip hop history is a bit far fetched. The only history is Eminem being back on stage after a long absence from the scene.
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Epic said:
True that.
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Cole9 said:
Lil Wayne a hip hop legend? Kid's these days. Eminem needs to go back to his old flow of rapping, the stuff he's putting out now is garbage.
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Raoul said:
Its not about sales. Its about achieved a level of respect and recognition from the fans and other rappers.

Chuch D is a legend. The three on that stage - not even remotely close.
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roodboy said:
This.
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brewlio said:
:wenger:

I won't bore all y'all with my disappointment here. I thought we were getting served up the origins/roots of Hop Hop, or even some fly Afrika Bombata and the Soul Sonic Force from when it metamorphosised onto the streets of the US-of-A. That wee fecker Wayne is just a skidmark on the underpants of the scene.
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BAMSOLA said:
Thats a sad statement.
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dumbo said:
It's like titling a thread "Hip Hop history" and then posting videos of Cliff Richard.



That would actually make a lot more sense.
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BAMSOLA said:
Thats a sad statement.
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adexkola said:
I'm just seeing this thread, but Lil Wayne, Eminem and Drake rapping on the same stage is hip hop history?
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HsJ said:
He's not a legend.

He rhymes about dumb shit.

Although slightly entertaining, his songs have a short shelf life...nothing in comparison to real legends i.e. Big L, Big Pun, B.I.G...etc...
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Epic said:
He's a legend in a sense that he makes me believe that even I could be a hip hop star.
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BAMSOLA said:
I think we both know that popularity means nothing if you're not particularly exceptional at rapping or writing rhymes and I don't beleive that Wayne is particularly exceptional at either.

As for revolutionizing/creating the bling movement that movement was around for long before him(even during his underground days) and I can't see what his done to change it as it hasn't really gone anywhere since the late 90's.

Nowhere near a legend just one of many rappers around today who's popularity completely eludes me as I can't really see any discernable talent in what they do.
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We've all basically said the same thing....From the first post I was disputing that this thread, had anything to do with Hip-Hop History, because it doesn't...Since then you've just chosen to quote me and talk about random shit.
 
And the reason it doesn't make him the future of Hip-Hop is because he doesn't have what the artists who shaped this genre did have, and that's change. Neither Wayne or Drake have changed the genre for the better, nor will they. Undoubtable success, multi-gold platinum whatever you want, richest rappers alive fine, but they haven't helped the genre progress for the better. They might change their own lives, and what the mainstream accept in general, but that does not mean they have helped the genre evolve. And if it does, what the feck does that say about the state of music?

Are you going to argue that they have helped Hip-Hop lyrically? No.
Have they introduced a new sound? No. Shaped an existing one maybe, but nothing new.

Simplistic lyrics, simple hooks, production a far cry from the beats that made the genre respected in the first place. I don't want to knock either artists, and I wouldn't start a thread saying 'These guys are not good', but if a statement is made about their worth, why can't I argue against it?
 
Anderson Searl said:
*Sigh*

So enlighten me oh holy one, what makes you "The future"

Or is it even possible... Lil' Wayne was the future in the 90's and look at him now, one of the most popular entertainers in the world...
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Still not a great MC though, is he? I could probably name 100 other rappers that i would say are better then lil' wayne even though they haven't sold half of what he's sold. Hip hop isn't about selling records, it's about good lyrics flowing nicely over good beats. ATM lil' wayne & drake etc don't really do that in my eyes.
 
Hectic said:
Why can't you accept an alternative view point without having to resort to belittling me? What makes your opinion any more correct then my one?
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Because you've done the same in the past towards everyone elses opinion Hectic, pardon me for assuming and reading what you're saying as gospel but that's how it goes about.
 
In this thread, on this related subject?

That aside, if I've done that before, then you should no better to do the same eh? Still, some example would be appreciated.
 
The way I see this thread, you've managed to argue around the point with every other argument, including my 'holy speeches' and the future of this, the best entertainer of that, grammys and most records sold....

It's not really ever been about that, yet you pick up on those things and take the argument elsewhere. I think the majority of people have said the same thing, and that was basically neither the two artists mentioned, or the first post have anything to do with Hip-Hop History....And it doesn't, you even half-admitted that earlier.

But now we have a completely different argument, and we got here because you quoted me and then criticised me on a personal level, instead of my post about this thread.
 
Hectic said:
In this thread, on this related subject?

That aside, if I've done that before, then you should no better to do the same eh? Still, some example would be appreciated.
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In other hip-hop related threads, I don't care to go about looking up stuf because you and I have butted heards half a dozen times over hip-hop related discussion and it's been more you talking down to me.

I appreciate your stance on things Hectic, i've said that before as well and it's good to see someone appreciate hip-hop and especially the angle that I appreciate and that not many do.

I guess we can both agree to disagree with each other and move on.
 
I think we just have very different views on Hip-Hop, what more importantly, what exactly is classed as Hip-Hop. There's a big difference between me belittling you, and then me belittling everyone else I ever spoke to about the subject, I am sure it's down to a difference in opinion between us, then me seeing myself as the oracle of Hip-Hop and wanting everyone else to conform to my evil ways. Plus, I never want to come across like that, but if I can't argue passionately about something I love, then I probably shouldn't be posting here.

Yeah, I doubt we can really take this further without descending into further argument.

1-1 Full-Time.
 
Hectic said:
I think we just have very different views on Hip-Hop, what more importantly, what exactly is classed as Hip-Hop. There's a big difference between me belittling you, and then me belittling everyone else I ever spoke to about the subject, I am sure it's down to a difference in opinion between us, then me seeing myself as the oracle of Hip-Hop and wanting everyone else to conform to my evil ways.

Yeah, I doubt we can really take this further without descending into further argument.

1-1 Full-Time.
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Who has the away goal?
 
It was played on neutral ground. Away goal rule is not in effect.
 
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