I don't think it's quite as black & white as that, though. In this instance how do you suggest Higuain avoids any contact with Neuer after Neuer's punched it? You're completely disregarding the momentum of both men.
Higuain´s foul against Neuer
- Thread starter Marcosdeto
- Start date
I don't think it's quite as black & white as that, though. In this instance how do you suggest Higuain avoids any contact with Neuer after Neuer's punched it? You're completely disregarding the momentum of both men.
Does that make it any less dangerous?
The picture says it all as far as knee/thigh goes.
That is nonsense. Higuain was chasing down a ball which, once again, he's perfectly entitled to do. I've already said I think both men's intentions were honest so I don't think it's fair to suggest Higuain was penalty chasing.
Don't think he was either. But Neuer's play was perfectly legit and the highspeed impact is the only reason people are making such a fuss.
Does that make it any less dangerous?
The picture says it all as far as knee/thigh goes.
You basically burden the goalkeeper with all the responsibility for player safety here, there's always two sides who have to weigh the risks of every challenge and Higuain decided to go for it even though he clearly saw Neuer rushing towards him. He took the risk.
If that clear first contact of Neuer on the ball with the follow-through is dangerous play for you, which should be sanctioned with a penalty kick, then every 2nd goalkeeper action after set-pieces and corner kicks has to be a future penalty call, too. How often do we see goalkeepers fisting the ball away and hitting the head of the attacker with an elbow or forearm? It happens in almost every game.
It makes it less dangerous, obviously. Thighs are less dangerous than knees.....Does that make it any less dangerous?
The picture says it all as far as knee/thigh goes.
The gif/video tells it all about what actually matters - the contact.
WHAT complete disregard for the striker? He could easily use his hands to mitigate the impact of the collision for himself, while Neuer simply could not do that. What you advocate is indeed a complete disregard of the safety of the gk. He can't use his hands for his safety, he can't use his legs for his safety, he is totally defenceless.
Higuain's challenge did exactly the same, more so than Neuer. Neuer had 100% to get to the ball, Higuain 0%.
The contact is all that matters? Not the recklessness or endangerment it puts upon the opposition player? Dive into a two footed tackle, miss entirely, and see what happens.
So we're talking about hypothetical knees to hypothetical heads now, when we actually have contact of thigh vs shoulder, cool.
See, I believe Neuer's challenge goes against these rules. Others think Higuain's did.
What ultimately made contact isn't relevant. It's the actual challenge and how dangerous it was.
I personally liken that to a clash of heads between two players. 9 times out of 10 nobody should be penalised because it's an accident that is usually caused by their momentum after the initial challenge. I believe that applies to the goalie punching a player after clearing the ball too.
The actual challenge is the one that actually happened.Can't believe Higuain wasn't carded for that. Dangerous play
Sigh.
I've seen players win the ball but still be penalised. Obviously that is because the challenge was dangerous, not because of any contact that occurred.
You really need to learn the difference between 'contact' and 'challenge'.
I'll give you an example here. Rafael on Cahill. Pretty much everyone agreed it was a bad tackle that should have been a red card yet he won the ball. How does that work within your logic?
Ok, agree to disagree. No point continuing if we're dismissing reality and what actually occurred for hypotheticals.
It's not hypothetical, though
While there may not have been contact between his knee and head, how the fcuk does that make it any less dangerous or reckless? Jesus wept.
Agreed. I mean.....look at this unheard of incident.. looks like Shilton has just tried to punch Maradona's fecking head off. Still photos(especially from a carefully chosen angle which exaggerates the danger of the challenge) are pointless.
Agreed. I mean.....look at this unheard of incident.. looks like Shilton has just tried to punch Maradona's fecking head off. Still photos(especially from a carefully chosen angle which exaggerates the danger of the challenge) are pointless.
I despair.
You're the one making it about hypotheticals and still photos, man. In any case, you're clearly not changing your mind, so we'll just have to disagree. I'm out.
The gif shows the exact same thing ffs. A player recklessly leading with his knee at head height in a challenge with another player. The fact you ignore that and choose to focus on the contact that was made is laughable. It's genuinely like defending a two footed tackle "because he got the ball".
Don't think it was a foul by either. That it was standard technique for a goalie when going for a high/bouncing ball...push out a knee to protect himself. That the foul was given to the germans is typical of how ref's given the goalie benefit of doubt.
Agreed. I mean.....look at this unheard of incident.. looks like Shilton has just tried to punch Maradona's fecking head off. Still photos(especially from a carefully chosen angle which exaggerates the danger of the challenge) are pointless.
If anything Maradona was committing a foul, Shilton's legs are straight and not a danger, whilst that cheatin fook has got his studs pointing towards an opposition player - straight red in today's game!
Admittedly this was before football became a non contact sport full of soft lads, who cry at the the slightest of contact
Exactly .... anything else is/was insanne.
The problem with you is you are right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong.
You and others have the opinion that it should have been a penalty, others like myself think it was good keeping by Neuer.
Keepers jump with a raised leg in order to 1) get more leverage 2) protect themselves, always have done and unless they come out with a rule that says keepers can only jump with straight legs then it will remain.
For me this has been beaten to death so im out.
Is it true that dangerous play can only be called if there is no contact between the players?
TBH it's a blatant red for Neuer. He's entitled to go for the 50-50 (he's going to win it) but he realises he's likely to get clattered by Higuain if he goes for it normally and tries to defend himself by keeping his knee high. Having a knee at head height, coming it at that speed shows no regard for Higuain's safety (only his own) and is dangerous.
Higuain was never going to beat the keeper for that ball... he should have looked up the situation before throwing himself into Neuer's path (or just accept the consequences like a man and move on).
So if Neuer doesn't defend himself and keeps his knee down it would have been a red for Higuain according to your logic?
Because Higuain coming in at that speed (knowing he's not going to win the 50-50) against Neuer who keeps his knee down would have shown no regard for the keepers safety, potentially spinning him around in the air and leading to a neck breaking fall.
This IS the normal way a GK should go for that ball. If you would ask me to clear that, I would go exactly the same way. Why? Because it was drilled into me for nearly two decades in training and I want to stand up and keep walking after that instead of laying on the ground possibly paralyzed. What Neuer does is text book goal keeping. People seem to completely underestimate the power of momentum in that case for the Keeper, if he does not protect himself.
Neuer's a big fecking unit. He still would've afforded himself enough protection if he raised his knees to midsection level. I agree Higuain was being reckless - it's a very similar situation to when Jonny Evans kung fu kicked Drogba in the chest (coincidentally Drogba was also penalised) though, Drogba was trying to tip him from underneath in the air. There's no justification though for intentionally leading with your knee straight into the opponent's temple, it's obviously one of the most dangerous things you can do on a football pitch.
Definitely - with logic applied - but under the rule that GKs are soft a fook, then it's definitely a free out.
I saw one free given (not the final), where an attacker jumped *vertically*, not into the keeper, the keeper lost his balance and the ref gave a free out! Any contact was gk->attacker and he still got his free.
Just no!
As has been said before, try and jump without raising a knee, whilst running.
You're not a pogo stick, man.
It's not hypothetical, though
While there may not have been contact between his knee and head, how the fcuk does that make it any less dangerous or reckless? Jesus wept.
Na you're wrong.
Cheers for the desktop background though.
Jesus is this still going on? Neuer was up in the air and had punched the ball away nearly a second before Higuain ran into him.
Throw in Argentina. Collision made worse because Higuan was not watching for Neuer coming to play the ball so he failed to protect himself from a keeper doing what keepers do
Hoewedes and Neuer just gave the Argentinians a bit of their own medicine. Payback for the little dirty stuff they started to do early in the game.