High Press | Does it work?

[bosskeano]

A high press doesn't work if everyone isn't on the same page and everyone isn't committed to pressing...that's what has made Liverpool and Chelsea into these dominate teams right now. They all are on the same page and they know exactly what to do off the ball. They know when they can high press and they know when to drop off so they can organize and then get into their press.

United only seems to do the first bit...they only high press when it's a goal kick b/c they are organized and set in their shape. Where they are vastly different to those other two teams is the later part. They don't re-organize well and drop off so they can push a team to one side and then get into their pressing positions.

 

[romufc]

Not only does it work when everyone knows what to do, the team and individual players need to know pressing triggers. The best teams press but its not a constant press, there are certain triggers.

Also, I do not think you can be a pressing team without a top DM, everytime I watch our DM's, they are either too slow or in completely wrong positions to cut passes out.

At the moment, we press then one pass into a midfielder and they are out, which is weird cause there shouldnt be an easy pass into CM.

 

[Ekeke]

Not always the case, depends on the philosophy. Klopp, for example, presses high to create attacking opportunities when they win the ball back. So they lay traps to lull you into trying to play out of it. As seen against Arsenal.

Guardiola and City press to regain control of the ball first and foremost. So rather than always tempting teams to play out, they primarily force teams to play a long ball (as seen against United), so that they can sweep up and regain control of the game.

City arent pressing

Technically they are the only team in the league with less presses per 90 mins than United. But thats offset a bit by having more of the ball than United and the other teams. Even if they had the same amount they wouldnt be pressing as much as Liverpool and Chelsea for example, just more than us.

 

[TheReligion]

Yes it works if you have the right players to play it and the right coaches to coach it.

Like any system. Close thread.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

City arent pressing

Technically they are the only team in the league with less presses per 90 mins than United. But thats offset a bit by having more of the ball than United and the other teams. Even if they had the same amount they wouldnt be pressing as much as Liverpool and Chelsea for example, just more than us.

Surprising. I'd say that perhaps they don't need to, but seem to know how to. They pressed the hell out of us successfully last time we played them, didn't they? Though maybe that wasn't that difficult

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

With steroids yes, without no.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

City arent pressing

Technically they are the only team in the league with less presses per 90 mins than United. But thats offset a bit by having more of the ball than United and the other teams. Even if they had the same amount they wouldnt be pressing as much as Liverpool and Chelsea for example, just more than us.

Exactly. 10% more per game on average than us, and 7% more than Chelsea, which is a huge difference.

And going by that same table, City are in the top 4 for pressures in the attacking third, behind Liverpool but ahead of Chelsea. So I'm not quite sure "City aren't pressing" is the right conclusion to be drawing here.

 

[Dante]

City arent pressing

Technically they are the only team in the league with less presses per 90 mins than United. But thats offset a bit by having more of the ball than United and the other teams. Even if they had the same amount they wouldnt be pressing as much as Liverpool and Chelsea for example, just more than us.

The key column in that table is pressures in the attacking 3rd. That's the metric that differentiates a high press from a full court press.

City are miles ahead of United, and would be even higher if not for their possession stats.

United near enough at the bottom of the list. Our high press is non-existant.

 

[Ekeke]

Surprising. I'd say that perhaps they don't need to, but seem to know how to. They pressed the hell out of us successfully last time we played them, didn't they? Though maybe that wasn't that difficult

Everyone presses our midfield and defence because we struggle so badly with it. Teams who dont normally press will do it because its particularly effective with us

I cant remember the last team that didnt try it

 

[Laurencio]

I read something interesting about modern pressing. Due to computer assisted data analytics, teams are able to calculate efficient pressing patterns and how to reduce the risks inherent with a high press. The very best pressing teams are assisted by substantial data analytics departments who calculate the risks involved in pressing certain players, how efficient that is and how effective a player is at doing that. This prevents excessive pressing and ensures that players are coached into pressing triggers that help maximise the team's ability to win the ball back while not spending more energy than necessary. Those clubs are widely known as exceptional at pressing, and tend to dominate matches while clubs that rely on a more old fashioned method tend to press ineffectively, spend too much energy and open the team up for unfortunate breaks on the counter.

You can guess twice who has the most established data scientist labs in the country.

 

[House Mkhitaryan]

Everyone presses our midfield and defence because we struggle so badly with it. Teams who dont normally press will do it because its particularly effective with us

I cant remember the last team that didnt try it

Had to be Spurs and it got their manager sacked straight away.

 

[Champ]

Do people realise that a high press doesn't actually always mean running towards the ball?

Peps teams concentrate on cutting off passing lanes and channels as soon as they lose possession, that way they can get back into a defensive shape and force the opposition into giving the ball away.

This is also the reason why City produce so many tactical fouls, as if the high press ( and it is a high press, even if they are not actively running towards the ball) is beaten then they engage in a foul to break the build up from happening.

A press, in terms of stats, is someone running towards a player with the ball, however this isn't the only way to win the ball back.

 

[darko]

With steroids yes, without no.

 

[Reapersoul20]

High pressing obviously works. It's not about running at the ball like a terrier though. A player like Ronaldo can effectively play in a high-press team as long as it's organized. A side-step can close off an easy pass.

 

[stevoc]

I read something interesting about modern pressing. Due to computer assisted data analytics, teams are able to calculate efficient pressing patterns and how to reduce the risks inherent with a high press. The very best pressing teams are assisted by substantial data analytics departments who calculate the risks involved in pressing certain players, how efficient that is and how effective a player is at doing that. This prevents excessive pressing and ensures that players are coached into pressing triggers that help maximise the team's ability to win the ball back while not spending more energy than necessary. Those clubs are widely known as exceptional at pressing, and tend to dominate matches while clubs that rely on a more old fashioned method tend to press ineffectively, spend too much energy and open the team up for unfortunate breaks on the counter.

You can guess twice who has the most established data scientist labs in the country.

That is interesting but also a little bit sad, slowly but surely the beautiful game has become much more analytical and robotic. This was inevitable with the advancement of computing technology, evolution of tactics and the money now involved in the sport.

Whether or not it's been a good thing for football as a spectacle depends on who you ask but it does feel like there isn't as much flair in the game these days.

 

[Long Time Red]

City arent pressing



Technically they are the only team in the league with less presses per 90 mins than United. But thats offset a bit by having more of the ball than United and the other teams. Even if they had the same amount they wouldnt be pressing as much as Liverpool and Chelsea for example, just more than us.

You have interpreted those stats wrong.

City spend the least amount of time without the ball so of course they won't have the highest amount of pressures.

If you adjust those numbers per minute out of possession rather than per a 90 minute game City are 3rd:

Leeds United 4.44
Liverpool 3.92
Manchester City 3.85
Brighton 3.84
Chelsea 3.80
Crystal Palace 3.67
Leicester City 3.61
Tottenham 3.47
Southampton 3.25
Brentford 3.20
Wolves 3.08
Norwich City 3.07
Manchester Utd 3.00
Everton 2.97
Watford 2.76
West Ham 2.73
Aston Villa 2.64
Arsenal 2.60
Newcastle Utd 2.46
Burnley 2.3

Those numbers are consistent with the data available from www.understat.com which shows we are 13th in the league for PPDA (passes per defensive action, i.e. passes we allow before a tackle, interception, foul or ball goes out of play), with only Wolves, Burnley, Watford, Everton, Norwich, Newcastle and Arsenal worse than us.

 

[tomaldinho1]

You have interpreted those stats wrong.

City spend the least amount of time without the ball so of course they won't have the highest amount of pressures.

If you adjust those numbers per minute out of possession rather than per a 90 minute game City are 3rd:

Leeds United 4.44
Liverpool 3.92
Manchester City 3.85
Brighton 3.84
Chelsea 3.80
Crystal Palace 3.67
Leicester City 3.61
Tottenham 3.47
Southampton 3.25
Brentford 3.20
Wolves 3.08
Norwich City 3.07
Manchester Utd 3.00
Everton 2.97
Watford 2.76
West Ham 2.73
Aston Villa 2.64
Arsenal 2.60
Newcastle Utd 2.46
Burnley 2.3

Those numbers are consistent with the data available from www.understat.com which shows we are 13th in the league for PPDA (passes per defensive action, i.e. passes we allow before a tackle, interception, foul or ball goes out of play), with only Wolves, Burnley, Watford, Everton, Norwich, Newcastle and Arsenal worse than us.

Also shows how good Potter has been implementing a press at Brighton.

 

[JPRouve]

The answer isn't worth an actual discussion. All pressing/marking philosophies work if it fits your group of players.

 

[BluesJr]

Remember when Ole said he wanted his team to work harder and run more than anyone else? What happened to that plan?

 

[JPRouve]

Remember when Ole said he wanted his team to work harder and run more than anyone else? What happened to that plan?

It requires to have a clue about coaching pressing angles, pressing traps and spotting pressing triggers. You don't become a good tactician and teacher out of nowhere.

 

[Skills]

Remember when Ole said he wanted his team to work harder and run more than anyone else? What happened to that plan?

Ole said a lot of things.

Actually it's more like, reporters said a lot of things to Ole and he often just replied - yeah, what you're saying is exactly what I want.

 

[OleTheGreat]

This high pressing of ours - does it really work? I don’t think we have the personnel for it. I understand pressing higher up the pitch but why do we push our three forwards inside their box/to their sideline to press their defenders? One small pass and it takes 3 of our players out the game. Not to mention it stretches us so much and leaves so much space for the opposition to run into.

This makes our defenders move way too high up and again leaves so much space and so many balls get played in behind our defense. Why don’t we sit back a little and let them have the ball at their goal line? They can’t hurt us from that position. Once it gets played into their midfield or defense outside their box then we press and we can stay more compact that way.

What we do in the name of pressing is total crap! What we did under Jose was quite boring but Jose always wants his forward 3 to press up front and everybody else to sit behind the ball. He knew what exactly to expect from his players. He hated players like Martial and Pogba because they didn't move a lot off the ball and definitely did not track back. He would've maybe done a better job with Bruno and Lukaku in a line in front of goal. Ole was haphazard in his teams shape. He has no idea how to align his team and make them play in and out of possession. He depended on Carrick and Mckenna to work on the midfield and defense while he concentrated on the attacking players. Nobody truly worked on patterns of play because we are the only team who cannot get out of a press efficiently. We get flustered and clear or give the ball away.

We definitely need Rangnick or Ten Hag to shape us into a good team. Even Poch can do a world of good for us right now. Ole has definitely left us with a great squad.

 

[KingCavani]

Remember when Ole said he wanted his team to work harder and run more than anyone else? What happened to that plan?

He didn't know how to implement it.

He could see what other big teams were doing and deduced that that's what he should be doing, he just didn't have the ability.

That 2014 article about his time at Cardiff was pretty telling. Ole has talked a bigger game than he's capable of producing for 7 years. Coaching matters and we'll hopefully see how much pretty soon.

 

[tenpoless]

Remember when Ole said he wanted his team to work harder and run more than anyone else? What happened to that plan?

When he first said it, it worked because the players were like rabid dogs being unleashed after Jose's shitshow. They had a lot of energy. But after a while, players ran out of gas and it seemed like some opponents have found the way to counter the non-organized pressing. I remember in the first several Bruno's games, he pressed really well. Right now he's not pressing, just running around that makes him look like he's pressing. It takes an actual organization to be able to press not just outrunning the opponents.

 

[Waynne]

Remember when Ole said he wanted his team to work harder and run more than anyone else? What happened to that plan?

Didn't make enough friends and lack of pashun

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

City press. Its just positioning based pressing which aids their possession game. So they wont ever expound as much energy as a Pool in pressing

 

[Pexbo]

Guess we are about to find out.

 

[Varun]

As Rangnick said, you either press or you don't just like you're either pregnant or you're not. There's no little pressing just like there's no little pregnant

 

[KingCavani]