Tell that to Arteta. Years of watching Pep up close and he still can't do it. It takes the right players and the right coach. We have neither
High Press | Does it work?
- Thread starter RDCR07
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Tell that to Arteta. Years of watching Pep up close and he still can't do it. It takes the right players and the right coach. We have neither
We push so high up every game like tonight when Greenwood and Sancho were pressing when the GK passed to the CBS near THEIR touch line and since our midfield doesn’t press with them it’s leave us so vulnerable and open for counters.
We don't press well as a team.
The only games I vividly remember us pressing really well was vs Cardiff and vs Brighton during project restart. Those 2 games seem like massive outliers.
The only games I vividly remember us pressing really well was vs Cardiff and vs Brighton during project restart. Those 2 games seem like massive outliers.
We are awful at pressing as a unit, but even the bad attempts at it at times tonight completely threw off Villareal at times. It's so blatantly obvious that it is something we are missing, yet it never seems to be remedied.
The way we press should be taught in schools…on how to not do it. Same goes for building from the back unfortunately.
We have all the personnel we need. We just don't have the coach capable of implementing it. It's not just "rush the ball and press", there's a skill to it.
Exactly so we aren't doing a high press properly just a few players wasting energy most the time, when the whole did do it we did it well but it's not often we do it with the whole team.
We definitely didn't high press last night that's for sure. The pace of Danjuma saw to that.
As others have mentioned it's a solo press usually lead by Bruno who runs himself into the ground chasing shadows. I love his effort but he needs to reign it in a little if nobody else is going to follow.
As others have mentioned it's a solo press usually lead by Bruno who runs himself into the ground chasing shadows. I love his effort but he needs to reign it in a little if nobody else is going to follow.
When I meant personnel I meant the coaching staff sorry.
The bolded part imo is the reason Ole abandoned pressing. We can't do it effectively, so we decided to ditch it.
Players can be coached to press effectively as a unit but it takes time and coaching. We're not getting any better at this so the conclusion is simple.
I don't remember us ever doing it tbh
Again if he abandoned the press why are our forwards pressing defenders inside their own box? I understand when you’re trailing but this was in the first half. Why aren’t they advised against doing this?
I wouldn’t call what we do high press. “Random, occasional, running and harrying” would be more apt.
I think Ole wants to implement a high press but Pogba and Ronaldo don’t fit neatly into that and more importantly, we don’t play with a high enough line to make it possible. What ends up happening when we do try to press is that our shape suffers and there are huge gaps everywhere.
I think Ole wants to implement a high press but Pogba and Ronaldo don’t fit neatly into that and more importantly, we don’t play with a high enough line to make it possible. What ends up happening when we do try to press is that our shape suffers and there are huge gaps everywhere.
We almost scored yesterday after high pressing, sadly it's just an anomalous occurence. Majority of game it was watching Tom & Jerry cartoon, chasing the ball rather than adjusting postioning to possible pass trajectory, it's also about reading the game and opponent... Ole being our manager for a while now and so far not much have been developed on this front.
With Cristiano & Pogba in the side it’s always going to be risky to say the least.
I think clearly it can work, Liverpool and City have had lots of success with it. However, we seem to chase after the ball in one's and two's, and are easily played around 9 times out of 10.
Watching other teams implement it, and it's clear that there's an actual plan to box an opponent in, or force the pass to a specific player. We just seem to react to where the ball goes.
Watching other teams implement it, and it's clear that there's an actual plan to box an opponent in, or force the pass to a specific player. We just seem to react to where the ball goes.
We never did it regularly, but I remember us starting some games with high press. And I also remember opposition bypassing that press quite easily. But can't tell if that was last season or the previous one.
The whole team has to be at it. As Cruyff said, the first defender is your striker. Ronaldo now is too old to do it.
Then if you play Pogba he doesnt do it in MF. I think if you are building the team around a player it was to be the striker and not a MF like Pogba. Ronaldo can justify it by banging in the goals. Pogba will never get twenty goals from his position. For me if everyone was fit i would drop Pogba.
Then if you play Pogba he doesnt do it in MF. I think if you are building the team around a player it was to be the striker and not a MF like Pogba. Ronaldo can justify it by banging in the goals. Pogba will never get twenty goals from his position. For me if everyone was fit i would drop Pogba.
I think some players pressed high up the pitch. But it was uncoordinated.
It was high press only in the sense that me running for the bus is doing the 100 metres.
Exactly this. After we concede we always look mint for a short period.
I'll take that.We only wake up in games when we go down a goal.
There was absolutely no pressing yesterday. We just let them look like prime wannabe Barcelona. We might be getting carried away with Ronaldo's scoring but he, Sancho and Greenwood just stood around and let them pass the ball around and in the process put our midfield and defence on the back foot.
The game completely changed as soon as Cavani and Lingard came on with their pressing. You always hear coaches saying you defend from the front which we were not doing yesterday and nearly suffered as a consequence.
The game completely changed as soon as Cavani and Lingard came on with their pressing. You always hear coaches saying you defend from the front which we were not doing yesterday and nearly suffered as a consequence.
We game Pau Torres so much time he looked like the Johan Cyuff.
Someone should hack the scoreboard to show our opposition winning 1-nil from kick off
You can’t high pressure with Pogba and Ronaldo in the team. Pogba more so.
Ronaldo is the best player in the world And actually scores goals so I can live with that.
When Pogba doesn’t play, we play much better as a team.
Ronaldo is the best player in the world And actually scores goals so I can live with that.
When Pogba doesn’t play, we play much better as a team.
Or de Gea for that matter. The rest are unknown quantities but I suspect at least three of four others would have to go too if we actually had a Pep or a Klopp managing us into a high press.
There's no way the Glazers would sanction that kind of long term disruption when they can get top four on the existing model. I think they don't actually care that much about winning stuff.
Not sure if it falls into the high press category, but this is a fine press none the less
We have never pressed high as a team. It's all individualistic. Players like Bruno, cavani, james when he was here, Fred - they press a lot individually, and because of that when they miss can be bypassed as their teammates stay static. Our strategy is to wait to collect the ball in the back and counter at pace. It's exactly why Ole likes McFred - they are energetic and it makes up (in his mind) for the lack of team pressing.
what we do isn't really high pressing - we just have couple of players who chase the guy with the ball while the rest sit back and watch.
Damning stat, more so on Greenwood than Ronaldo though
This pressing game with Ronaldo, Greenwood and Pogba will never work. I think Neville in Overlap made a great point. He said when Ronaldo was last here it worked because he was moved up front and the likes of Tevez, Rooney, Park and Fletcher behind him worked like dogs to defend and win the ball back.
That is clearly not the situation now. Sancho actually tracks back but the likes of Pogba, Greenwood and to a certain extent Fernandes don’t work the right way. Bruno run towards the keeper and central defenders but he isn’t great at tracking back to his goal.
Stats like that bore me. It assumes pressing is an individual quality as opposed to an organized/coordinated team effort.
Our high press is weird. Our players stand way too far off their mark and when he gets the ball then they sprint at him. I've never understood this. Why do we let them make the pass? Why aren't we already up on the player rather than allow them outlets like we do? If we are going to do a high press then we shouldn't give them any space. Take away all the outlets to either force a turnover or to force them to hoof it away.
With that being said, I don't like a high press. The problem I have with it is that if we do win the ball back high up the field, they already have their players back and there isn't much space behind to attack into. I prefer a half press. This is to allow them possession up until half. At that point press hard and when we force a turnover there will be more space between the last defender and the goal...
With that being said, I don't like a high press. The problem I have with it is that if we do win the ball back high up the field, they already have their players back and there isn't much space behind to attack into. I prefer a half press. This is to allow them possession up until half. At that point press hard and when we force a turnover there will be more space between the last defender and the goal...
Erm no if done the right way it’s productive. Leicesters first goal was a high press. Ineacho pressed, won the ball and found Youri for the goal. That was a press done right. Unlike us when Bruno presses the keeper for no reason.
Pressing is not about mindless running. Pressing is a system of play, the kind that is ingrained in the players by the coaches and manager. We do not play a pressing system, so in the instance you see someone like Cavani or Bruno work their socks off, they look like headless chickens chasing after a ball. Ronaldo is never gonna press, he was never a presser to begin with. Messi is the same. Most "main mans" hardly ever press. But if Ronaldo had a pressing system behind him, that wouldn't ever be a problem. Problem is - we have no such system. Not only do we not press, we do not even play a structured system like Simeone or prime Mourinho teams. We play nothing. Players off the ball do not look like they have any idea what to do, just rely on their gut instinct.
When usually the instructions are - give more pashun, energy and the United way, it's normal to have this wayward, uncoordinated movement of different players in different areas of the pitch. Pressing is done as a team and usually really hard to implement as it needs clear instructions and personnel. This is why if you are not a top coach with also a well drilled team/unit it usually falls flat on your arse.
Now if you give a ball to the kids in PE class and tell them to play in their own way it will probably resemble our type of pressing, considering different players have different energy and understanding of it.
We have some brilliant individuals and this is since day 1. There's no real style of play. We've changed formations, personnel, but even after three years there's zero control in games. We're just relying on individual players to do their thing.
I'd be interested to see/know what Sancho's overall defensive contributions are. I've not seen enough of him at Dortmund or United to know but I have this impression that he's not ever going to be a workhorse but would love to see stats that prove me wrong
Before we talk about high press, we have to talk about what we want. We want to win the ball back, ok, but how? Force them into the long ball and push them back with a quick attack? Do we want to trap them and intercept the pass? High press is not high press.
For different styles a manager needs different players. The problem high press is just a word for Ole, no idea, no plan, just attacking the defence. So it does not work.
A good manager would coach this team high press, the players would work together, we have great material but no idea to use it.
For different styles a manager needs different players. The problem high press is just a word for Ole, no idea, no plan, just attacking the defence. So it does not work.
A good manager would coach this team high press, the players would work together, we have great material but no idea to use it.
The reason that a high press is effective is because it’s employed immediately that the opposition win the ball.
The intention is for you to win the ball back before the opposition can reset into an attacking formation with passing lanes becoming available.
If you wait until the opposition get up to the halfway line then they’ll be back into formation and your chances of getting the ball are much reduced.
Ergo, press immediately to be effective or stand off to give the opposition time to organise themselves and be ineffective.
You’re promoting ineffective, I’m not sure that you understand that’s what you’re doing but it certainly is.