Well, no, otherwise BFS would be playing.
Herrera at Holding
- Thread starter Jacky Quacky
- Start date
I think that's a bit unfair tbh
Yes, yesterday was not a good performance, and yes his distribution is lacking, but i think the only certainty we can draw from that match is that him and Pogba are not working well in a two man midfield. But i think he can be useful in a three man midfield with Pogba and Herrera
Not saying he must play the big games, but his physical presence is not to be underestimated and he has been good this season.
Once we get exposed with Herrera at DM in a big game, people will realise that the correct solution imo is Schneiderlin
Tbf, I was hoping Schneiderlin will be a monster under Mourinho's tutelage.
Agree. That would make the most use of Fellaini, as him as a DM nullifies his threat as an offensive focus in the box. I really don't want to see Fellaini in a 2 man midfield with Pogba again, unless we are totally parking the bus (which won't happen much).
Herrera needs to play, I'm not necessarily sure it should be as the holding midfielder but we need him in games if we want to be threatening going forward. We look far too slow without him.
i wish schniderlin was good for us. but he's been very underwhelming since he came here. The dm position was made for him but he seems to be incapable of taking his chance
Or that we don't actually have a real solution given Schneiderlin has been a shockingly bad player for United and Carrick is old.
The logical thing, given we don't have the ideal player, is to defend with numbers IMO. Either go for three in the middle, or press in numbers like city do. They get away with playing just Fernandinho as their CM because Silva, De Bruyne and a lot of other players crowd that area to add numbers and unsettle teams. We could easily get Pogba, Mkhitarian, Mata, Herrera, Lingard etc to do that.
It would the height naivity to go into big games with a two men midfield of Pogba +1 just as it was against City. The problem is that we don't have that sort of holder in the club, the Polish guy who went to PSG. Schneiderlin is a poor version of Fletcher and hasn't settled well here.
I was hoping for this too. Doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon. A two man midfield against Chelsea and Liverpool would probably be suicide so I'd prefer it if we got him, Herrera and Pogba together in those games. But I don't see Mourinho playing him in those games considering how little time he's had in the lead up to those games.
People rate Schneiderlin very low on here. I think he is a monster, very similar to Matic
Go three in the middle and if Carrick isn't up to it, play Blind at DM. Smalling-Bailly is a good, athletic centre half partnership. Plus, Blind can help them bring the ball out from defence, is good at distributing the ball plus doesn't struggle if pressed. He was a bit out of his depth in terms of the pace of the game in his first season but having been here 2 seasons and having done well at centre half, I'd love to see him given another chance. By any measure he's the closest we have to Carrick.
Being discussed on BT by Owen and Savage. Neither think you can play Herrera and Pogba in the big games.
Personally I think we will just sacrifice the number 10 and bring in someone to sit like Carrick/Schneiderlin or my preference Blind.
Don't see it as a big issue. Just wish Schneiderlin would get his game together as he's ideal.
Personally I think we will just sacrifice the number 10 and bring in someone to sit like Carrick/Schneiderlin or my preference Blind.
Don't see it as a big issue. Just wish Schneiderlin would get his game together as he's ideal.
He was very highly rated before we signed him but you can't deny he's been very underwhelming since he arrived.
Personally, I believe it would be an inherently risky strategy to predominantly utilize Herrera as a no.6. People will invariably reference the game against Chelsea in 2015, as justification for why he can do a good job as the deepest midfielder. However, they fail to acknowledge that not only did Herrera switch off allowing Hazard to score the only goal of the game, he nearly made it a second goal deficit with a deeply underwhelming pass which momentaraily put the team in jeopardy. Moreover, they also fail to acknowledge that it wasn't the only game Herrera played as a DM under LVG. Indeed, Herrera was also utilized as a DM against West Brom in May. a game which we lost 1-0. More pertinently, Herrera didn't have the same galvanizing influence as Carrick, which meant West Brom were successful in there tactic to cede the majority of possession, congest space in a resolute defensive display.
I felt Herrera's best performances for us, were doing that spell following our loss against Arsenal in the Fa Cup, until Carrick had to come off against Man City due to a calf injury. By way of illustration:
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-15-2015/_eSAxV.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/050cae8042aa02dd94738e98f4007c0e/tumblr_nlnvwzO1lb1qaorn7o1_500.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/CQScxklmNDulq/200.gif
Even when we played 3-5-2, or a 4-4-2 diamond, he was still one of our best players as the RCM.
Having Herrera as the RCM, Pogba as the LCM and then somebody else behind them is the best way to go imo. I said in July that Pogba flourished when Marchisio entered the fray, over Padoin. The midfield now had a player capable of being a deep lying playmaker, whilst concurrently being a grafter, as exemplified by the fact that Marchisio was one of the solid, energetic foils with dogged determination to compensate for Pirlo's defensive frailties. With Pirlo, Pogba was more of a shuttler, but looked more liberated with Marchisio and a defensive box to box in Khedira. It's noteworthy that Herrera is very tenacious.
I felt Herrera's best performances for us, were doing that spell following our loss against Arsenal in the Fa Cup, until Carrick had to come off against Man City due to a calf injury. By way of illustration:
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-15-2015/_eSAxV.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/050cae8042aa02dd94738e98f4007c0e/tumblr_nlnvwzO1lb1qaorn7o1_500.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/CQScxklmNDulq/200.gif
Even when we played 3-5-2, or a 4-4-2 diamond, he was still one of our best players as the RCM.
Having Herrera as the RCM, Pogba as the LCM and then somebody else behind them is the best way to go imo. I said in July that Pogba flourished when Marchisio entered the fray, over Padoin. The midfield now had a player capable of being a deep lying playmaker, whilst concurrently being a grafter, as exemplified by the fact that Marchisio was one of the solid, energetic foils with dogged determination to compensate for Pirlo's defensive frailties. With Pirlo, Pogba was more of a shuttler, but looked more liberated with Marchisio and a defensive box to box in Khedira. It's noteworthy that Herrera is very tenacious.
he's just great, it's not a problem for a player this clever to play any position inmidfield, had a couple of poor crosses/passes but his positioning when sweeping is fantastic IMO
He has been fantastic so good to see him playing with confidence.
Personally, I believe it would be an inherently risky strategy to predominantly utilize Herrera as a no.6. People will invariably reference the game against Chelsea in 2015, as justification for why he can do a good job as the deepest midfielder. However, they fail to acknowledge that not only did Herrera switch off allowing Hazard to score the only goal of the game, he nearly made it a second goal deficit with a deeply underwhelming pass which momentaraily put the team in jeopardy. Moreover, they also fail to acknowledge that it wasn't the only game Herrera played as a DM under LVG. Indeed, Herrera was also utilized as a DM against West Brom in May. a game which we lost 1-0. More pertinently, Herrera didn't have the same galvanizing influence as Carrick, which meant West Brom were successful in there tactic to cede the majority of possession, congest space in a resolute defensive display.
I felt Herrera's best performances for us, were doing that spell following our loss against Arsenal in the Fa Cup, until Carrick had to come off against Man City due to a calf injury. By way of illustration:
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-15-2015/_eSAxV.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/050cae8042aa02dd94738e98f4007c0e/tumblr_nlnvwzO1lb1qaorn7o1_500.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/CQScxklmNDulq/200.gif
Even when we played 3-5-2, or a 4-4-2 diamond, he was still one of our best players as the RCM.
Having Herrera as the RCM, Pogba as the LCM and then somebody else behind them is the best way to go imo. I said in July that Pogba flourished when Marchisio entered the fray, over Padoin. The midfield now had a player capable of being a deep lying playmaker, whilst concurrently being a grafter, as exemplified by the fact that Marchisio was one of the solid, energetic foils with dogged determination to compensate for Pirlo's defensive frailties. With Pirlo, Pogba was more of a shuttler, but looked more liberated with Marchisio and a defensive box to box in Khedira. It's noteworthy that Herrera is very tenacious.
Watch the game. You've missed an entire half while making this post.
Actually, I made this post prior to the match. When I logged in, it was already saved. I simply had to click post reply.
I was joking. It's an excellent post.
My understanding about Schneiderlin is that we're sort of using him wrong if we're trying to get him to anchor the midfield as a DM - whereas his best performances for Soton came next to Wanyama with Schneiderlin using his energy to press and hurry the opposition in their own half (Kante like).
I obviously also thought he was more of a DM for Soton.
Maybe we could still try Herrera holding and using Schneiderlins energy to track and unsettle the Hazards, Coutinhos and Ozils over the coming weeks.
I obviously also thought he was more of a DM for Soton.
Maybe we could still try Herrera holding and using Schneiderlins energy to track and unsettle the Hazards, Coutinhos and Ozils over the coming weeks.
Herrera played well today against Stoke. Although he needs to watch out with his reckless challenges. That cleater on Allen was pretty bad imo.
Personally, I believe it would be an inherently risky strategy to predominantly utilize Herrera as a no.6. People will invariably reference the game against Chelsea in 2015, as justification for why he can do a good job as the deepest midfielder. However, they fail to acknowledge that not only did Herrera switch off allowing Hazard to score the only goal of the game, he nearly made it a second goal deficit with a deeply underwhelming pass which momentaraily put the team in jeopardy. Moreover, they also fail to acknowledge that it wasn't the only game Herrera played as a DM under LVG. Indeed, Herrera was also utilized as a DM against West Brom in May. a game which we lost 1-0. More pertinently, Herrera didn't have the same galvanizing influence as Carrick, which meant West Brom were successful in there tactic to cede the majority of possession, congest space in a resolute defensive display.
I felt Herrera's best performances for us, were doing that spell following our loss against Arsenal in the Fa Cup, until Carrick had to come off against Man City due to a calf injury. By way of illustration:
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-15-2015/_eSAxV.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/050cae8042aa02dd94738e98f4007c0e/tumblr_nlnvwzO1lb1qaorn7o1_500.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/CQScxklmNDulq/200.gif
Even when we played 3-5-2, or a 4-4-2 diamond, he was still one of our best players as the RCM.
Having Herrera as the RCM, Pogba as the LCM and then somebody else behind them is the best way to go imo. I said in July that Pogba flourished when Marchisio entered the fray, over Padoin. The midfield now had a player capable of being a deep lying playmaker, whilst concurrently being a grafter, as exemplified by the fact that Marchisio was one of the solid, energetic foils with dogged determination to compensate for Pirlo's defensive frailties. With Pirlo, Pogba was more of a shuttler, but looked more liberated with Marchisio and a defensive box to box in Khedira. It's noteworthy that Herrera is very tenacious.
Quality post mate, Just like your post in the Holding player thread. Herrera i's a decent passer but not a great, varied passer and plays like a dog on a leash in that position, he'd offer us more as the RCM with a proper #6 behind him and Pogba.
Personally, I believe it would be an inherently risky strategy to predominantly utilize Herrera as a no.6. People will invariably reference the game against Chelsea in 2015, as justification for why he can do a good job as the deepest midfielder. However, they fail to acknowledge that not only did Herrera switch off allowing Hazard to score the only goal of the game, he nearly made it a second goal deficit with a deeply underwhelming pass which momentaraily put the team in jeopardy. Moreover, they also fail to acknowledge that it wasn't the only game Herrera played as a DM under LVG. Indeed, Herrera was also utilized as a DM against West Brom in May. a game which we lost 1-0. More pertinently, Herrera didn't have the same galvanizing influence as Carrick, which meant West Brom were successful in there tactic to cede the majority of possession, congest space in a resolute defensive display.
I felt Herrera's best performances for us, were doing that spell following our loss against Arsenal in the Fa Cup, until Carrick had to come off against Man City due to a calf injury. By way of illustration:
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-15-2015/_eSAxV.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/050cae8042aa02dd94738e98f4007c0e/tumblr_nlnvwzO1lb1qaorn7o1_500.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/CQScxklmNDulq/200.gif
Even when we played 3-5-2, or a 4-4-2 diamond, he was still one of our best players as the RCM.
Having Herrera as the RCM, Pogba as the LCM and then somebody else behind them is the best way to go imo. I said in July that Pogba flourished when Marchisio entered the fray, over Padoin. The midfield now had a player capable of being a deep lying playmaker, whilst concurrently being a grafter, as exemplified by the fact that Marchisio was one of the solid, energetic foils with dogged determination to compensate for Pirlo's defensive frailties. With Pirlo, Pogba was more of a shuttler, but looked more liberated with Marchisio and a defensive box to box in Khedira. It's noteworthy that Herrera is very tenacious.
Agree with this. I've got no confidence defensively in a midfield of Herrera, Pogba, Mata. If Mourinho isn't going to give Carrick minutes then surely Blind is worth another try at DM with Herrera and Pogba.
I have been impressed with Herrera in the holding midfield role, but not enough, it's not his natural position and doesn't get the best from him.
I like him there, i like the fluidity he brings to our play. The only issue is if he gets overpowered in games (shelvey when we played swansea last season being an example) but thats what you have a subs bench for. If he's not working in a game you swap him out as you would any other player.
I am probably his biggest fan, but even i agree against top teams we should play three in the middle and Herrera would be perfect for a RCM position. This switch will allow Pogba to stay further forward and get in the box regularly because we will always have a buffer of a CM like Carrick or Blind playing there, along with Herrera covering.
I remember with LVG, we started with a diamond and had Herrera, Di Maria and Blind as a three with Mata on the tip of the diamond, well that experiment lasted for a few games and although attackingly we played well, but defensively we were very weak. There are people wanting Blind to be played as a DM. I still feel our best combination is Carrick, Herrera and Pogba, its not because i don't rate Blind but he's not as good as Carrick in that position defensively, and we really need to find a perfect player who can not only defend but also allow us to initiate attacks from the back in the next window.
I remember with LVG, we started with a diamond and had Herrera, Di Maria and Blind as a three with Mata on the tip of the diamond, well that experiment lasted for a few games and although attackingly we played well, but defensively we were very weak. There are people wanting Blind to be played as a DM. I still feel our best combination is Carrick, Herrera and Pogba, its not because i don't rate Blind but he's not as good as Carrick in that position defensively, and we really need to find a perfect player who can not only defend but also allow us to initiate attacks from the back in the next window.
You can just imagine Wayne whispering in Jose's ear about a midfield 3. Him playing Herrera's role, moving Ander where you said and Pogba furtherest forward. Therefore flinging his mate Michael under the bus, even though he is 10x better at that role than Wayne would ever be.
Personally, I believe it would be an inherently risky strategy to predominantly utilize Herrera as a no.6. People will invariably reference the game against Chelsea in 2015, as justification for why he can do a good job as the deepest midfielder. However, they fail to acknowledge that not only did Herrera switch off allowing Hazard to score the only goal of the game, he nearly made it a second goal deficit with a deeply underwhelming pass which momentaraily put the team in jeopardy. Moreover, they also fail to acknowledge that it wasn't the only game Herrera played as a DM under LVG. Indeed, Herrera was also utilized as a DM against West Brom in May. a game which we lost 1-0. More pertinently, Herrera didn't have the same galvanizing influence as Carrick, which meant West Brom were successful in there tactic to cede the majority of possession, congest space in a resolute defensive display.
I felt Herrera's best performances for us, were doing that spell following our loss against Arsenal in the Fa Cup, until Carrick had to come off against Man City due to a calf injury. By way of illustration:
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-15-2015/_eSAxV.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/050cae8042aa02dd94738e98f4007c0e/tumblr_nlnvwzO1lb1qaorn7o1_500.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/CQScxklmNDulq/200.gif
Even when we played 3-5-2, or a 4-4-2 diamond, he was still one of our best players as the RCM.
Having Herrera as the RCM, Pogba as the LCM and then somebody else behind them is the best way to go imo. I said in July that Pogba flourished when Marchisio entered the fray, over Padoin. The midfield now had a player capable of being a deep lying playmaker, whilst concurrently being a grafter, as exemplified by the fact that Marchisio was one of the solid, energetic foils with dogged determination to compensate for Pirlo's defensive frailties. With Pirlo, Pogba was more of a shuttler, but looked more liberated with Marchisio and a defensive box to box in Khedira. It's noteworthy that Herrera is very tenacious.
Very good post. Agree with what you are saying, Herrera is doing very good job as a #6 but to make better use of his talents it's better to play in a 3 man midfield. Herrera's best position is (like you said) right side of the midfield and Pogba's is left side of the midfield. If we can play Blind or Carrick in the holding role then it's gives balance to the team and also suits our midfielders much better than what we are playing now.
Personally, I believe it would be an inherently risky strategy to predominantly utilize Herrera as a no.6. People will invariably reference the game against Chelsea in 2015, as justification for why he can do a good job as the deepest midfielder. However, they fail to acknowledge that not only did Herrera switch off allowing Hazard to score the only goal of the game, he nearly made it a second goal deficit with a deeply underwhelming pass which momentaraily put the team in jeopardy. Moreover, they also fail to acknowledge that it wasn't the only game Herrera played as a DM under LVG. Indeed, Herrera was also utilized as a DM against West Brom in May. a game which we lost 1-0. More pertinently, Herrera didn't have the same galvanizing influence as Carrick, which meant West Brom were successful in there tactic to cede the majority of possession, congest space in a resolute defensive display.
I felt Herrera's best performances for us, were doing that spell following our loss against Arsenal in the Fa Cup, until Carrick had to come off against Man City due to a calf injury. By way of illustration:
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-15-2015/_eSAxV.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/050cae8042aa02dd94738e98f4007c0e/tumblr_nlnvwzO1lb1qaorn7o1_500.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/CQScxklmNDulq/200.gif
Even when we played 3-5-2, or a 4-4-2 diamond, he was still one of our best players as the RCM.
Having Herrera as the RCM, Pogba as the LCM and then somebody else behind them is the best way to go imo. I said in July that Pogba flourished when Marchisio entered the fray, over Padoin. The midfield now had a player capable of being a deep lying playmaker, whilst concurrently being a grafter, as exemplified by the fact that Marchisio was one of the solid, energetic foils with dogged determination to compensate for Pirlo's defensive frailties. With Pirlo, Pogba was more of a shuttler, but looked more liberated with Marchisio and a defensive box to box in Khedira. It's noteworthy that Herrera is very tenacious.
That west brom game was a complete fluke loss though and had nothing to do with Herrera not being as good as Carrick. We missed a penalty (and had about 30 shots with something like 9 or 10 on target) and we conceded the flukiest of goals. Brunt's FK took a deflection off Dawson or someone who was in the wall and went in.
Carrick was exceptional that season but at this stage it would be a folly to start him in that position. He isn't going to prosper defensively. His weapon imo is stopping the passes but he is not going to win a tackle or chase down the opposition player. The goal we conceded vs Liverpool in that run for instance, he was bullied off the ball by coutinho who isn't exactly Fellaini. Not to say he isn't defensively aware, but he isn't going to be of help in cases of pressing. Especially at this age.
Every time i see this thread title an image flashes through my mind of Herrera and I lying on a bed, fully dressed but spooning, and he is holding me, whispering soothingly into my ear that everything is going to be OK. There's nothing sexual or inappropriate about it, he's like a father, soothing a frightened child. Herrera, holding.
Not once have my father and I 'spooned'
I would love to be held by Herrera, while Mata tells me a story. It would be very comforting.
That's one way this squad is better than the 99 one. Back then you'd have Keane shouting at you while Giggs was next door shagging your old lady.
