Nope. What bothers me the way Jose does it. Very dirty. He trained with the squad and everyone except for the recovering and Mkhi were included either in the squad or on the bench. Must be very hard to take that for a professional player of his level. Wouldnt stimulate me to work harder. Id just piss in Jose's running boots and move on. Im not sure what Jose is trying to get here. Its definitely not gonna help. Even when Martial and Mata showed some horrible performances they were never left out of the squad in such a way. To me its quite disrespectful to a player. If im not happy with my player, id just tell him that either he starts moving his ass or he is out.
22
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 22
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 7
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Reckon Jose would give him till the end of the season to see if he can pick up his performance level or not. A hard working typical Jose team rarely has any place for luxury players, unless they are of exceptional quality.
If we do go in for ozil during the summer, then it's clearly time up for mikhi
If we do go in for ozil during the summer, then it's clearly time up for mikhi
He was fecking dreadful for weeks and weeks and by the Chelsea game was clearly not putting in enough effort. Jogging about the pitch, hiding when the pressure was on and if he did get the ball immediately giving it away.
His exclusion was well overdue. I imagine Jose dropping him is his way of telling Mkhitaryan to "start moving his ass".
If this doesnt give a kick up his arse then nothing will. Think of it this way - at your company, you are whiling away your time and not really putting in 8 hour shifts instead you are working for 3 hours and browsing the internet for the other 5. If a manager doesnt sit you down and talk to you about it then you are going to continue to do it. But once the manager brings it to your attention that he knows what you're doing and if you dont stop he will fire you, that is a wake up call for you to stop doing shit and work all 8 hours.
That' a bullshit analogy. In any case, Miki needs to move on. These things will continue with him and Jose. He needs a different setup and different coach. The world does not revolve around United. He got an EL win out of his experience at United and that's a memorable experience for him.
How is anyone privy to a conversation between the manager and the player? For all you know, Mourinho would have communicated exactly what he expects from Mikhi but does not feel that Mikhi is really working hard enough to redeem himself. In all honestly, based on his last 5 performances, Mikhi deserves to be nowhere near the squad.
And it must be very hard for the manager and fans to withstand his absolute dogshite performance for 2 successive months.
It's not everybody else's fault. It's Mkhitaryan's and only his.
Mouriinho gave the guy all the time in the world and every opportunity to prove himself. He was even first choice at the start of the season. But Mkhitaryan played himself onto the bench and then back into the stands.
It would be different if Mkhitaryan had never had the opportunity to show what he could do. But the fact is that he did, and now he has to live with the consequences of his own poor performances.
Mouriinho gave the guy all the time in the world and every opportunity to prove himself. He was even first choice at the start of the season. But Mkhitaryan played himself onto the bench and then back into the stands.
It would be different if Mkhitaryan had never had the opportunity to show what he could do. But the fact is that he did, and now he has to live with the consequences of his own poor performances.
I will say this much though. Anybody who are against him to be away from the team, does not think about the team. Lingard or Mata will not do well without Pogba. So it would be back to square one soon. If you are against him being part of the squad, then you may have an issue with him beyond football. I can name 3-4-5 bad games for a lot of players, but nobody gets dropped the way that Miki does.
Some of you keep saying that he had his chances. Did he really? Did he have a chance to play with Pogba for a few games, instead of 15 minutes? Did Lingard or Mata sat the world on fire without Pogba?
Some of you keep saying that he had his chances. Did he really? Did he have a chance to play with Pogba for a few games, instead of 15 minutes? Did Lingard or Mata sat the world on fire without Pogba?
It's not like most aren't fine with him playing once he gets his act together. Even if some players haven't performed for a few matches here and there it's hard to find others who have been absolute passengers in games. Micky has been pretty dreadful.
You go to match thread and see a lot of guys are worried about not having Pogba, loosing the middle, the disconnect between CMs and forwards. No shit, didn't Miki had the same exact problems without that crucial link?
Not having Pogba can excuse a disconnect between CMs and forwards.
It doesn't excuse the fecking half arsed performances he was putting in.
I think we might have a few Armenian posters in this thread 
How many games was he really dreadful? 3-4. Jose said the same thing, about 3-4-5. Ok, dead game against CSKA. He could not be part of the team for that one? Now, I don't blame Jose if he wants to move him in January. I would have done the same. But we really do not have an idea what Jose wants to do with him and we come to quick conclusions.
I don't think Mourinho favors players he's bought, but we knew when he was appointed manager that he will decide he doesn't trust a player and then not use him, no matter how good he is. If Mourinho has 10 great players you can't expect him to rate and play all 10. The two current favorites for PFA player of the year didn't get on the field for him, for example.
Mourinho has been around long enough that I'm not sure why people seem surprised by his strengths and weaknesses. He's not going to suddenly become a bad defensive organizer or build a side lacking strength and toughness or see major weaknesses in the squad and fail to address them, but conversely, he's not going to find a way to trust all his most talented players or play nice attacking football outside of some lovely counters. He's going to engender incredible love and loyalty from some players and at some point he'll do something straight up morally wrong to someone who doesn't deserve it like with Frink or Carneiro.
Mourinho has been around long enough that I'm not sure why people seem surprised by his strengths and weaknesses. He's not going to suddenly become a bad defensive organizer or build a side lacking strength and toughness or see major weaknesses in the squad and fail to address them, but conversely, he's not going to find a way to trust all his most talented players or play nice attacking football outside of some lovely counters. He's going to engender incredible love and loyalty from some players and at some point he'll do something straight up morally wrong to someone who doesn't deserve it like with Frink or Carneiro.
I'm not French, but I defended Martial a lot in Perisic's thread against the move.I think we might have a few Armenian posters in this thread
or maybe they are from Mkhi camp.I think we might have a few Armenian posters in this thread
Mkhitaryan is extremely popular in Armenia, they call him the Armenian Messi. To have such a talented player from that country makes a lot of Armenians proud. It was just a joke
I don't remember you defended Martial (what is to defend anyways?) but outright downplayed Perisic. As thing stands, Perisic showed that he has been coming of age which I & many who watched Serie A already knew a while ago. Perisic ain't to take Martial place as he stay more wide while as in recent games, Martial drift in field more and even roam to right wing. Perisic can even play on the right wing. Perisic role is closer to Young than of Martial.
Back to Mkhi. I didn't reply to your last response thinking you're light hearted with your response about Lingard. I saw you're dead serious about downplaying Lingard though while making every excuses possible for Mkhi. Lingard without Pogba showed he helped the team when he came on vs L'pool & Tottenham even if his end product sucks. Lingard pressed well, contributed in tracking runners in midfield, and ran his ass off trying to catch up and support the forwards. This has nothing to do with having Pogba. No 10 is to supporting the forwards. Why would you need a no 10 when you require your midfield to bridge the midfield & forward? Make no sense. Midfielders have enough in their hand in keeping the team in one piece from defense to forward. They ain't primarily required to be by the forwards' side.
Lingard without end product is better than the form Mkhi has shown in recent months. What I meant is for example vs Arsenal, he became a third midfield and track runner allowing Pogba to push forward many times. Mkhi doesn't play like a midfielder, he stays as no 10 but didn't perform. Basically we play with 10 men in any phase of the game: attack, defense, recycling possession...
For me that third goal is a classic move that doesn't happen with Mkhi . Lingard got the ball and moved it on quickly while on multiple occasions this season Mkhi took the extra touch and lost the ball
I assume you've never managed staff with this comment.
As someone who seems to agree with the vast majority of Mourinho's decisions let me give you a theoretical timeline of conversations that I would have had with Mkhitaryan (I've made them civilised):
August/September - you're making the difference for a few minutes each match, but are a passenger for 85 minutes. You need to work harder on your overall contribution as no player can keep up your output and once that diminishes you'll be redundant.
October - your output is naturally slowing. I reiterate the need for you to work harder, be far more aggressive and contribute more.
Early November - you're output has obviously stunted. You've got one more chance to work far, far harder and be much more aggressive - there are other players who would love your starting spot and although they're less technically gifted they're desperate to start and will follow instructions to the benefit of the team.
Now - you've failed to follow my advice and instructions consistently since August irrespective of your form which has ranged from poor with good output to awful with awful output. You'll be spending time with the reserves until you work for the team instead of yourself.
Mourinho doesn't care about performances specifically. He cares about what you're putting into the game. Form and output comes and goes. A good manager is looking for the fundamental qualities that will benefit the team irrespective of form.
Mata's form comes and goes, but fundamentally he works very hard for the team. Martial has improved immeasurably in this regard since last season where he too was benched.
Mkhitaryan is a mentally pathetic personality who when things aren't going right he downs tools and not only fails to perform but fails to so the absolute basic requirements if a Mourinho team. That's unacceptable and is the reason Lingard is a much, much better player.
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I raised this concern in August also. Wasn't doing anything in games and was largely a passenger, when I said that on here I got laughed out of the place because he got 5 assists in two games or something. The reality is that he's been piss poor for most of the season and Jose has every right to drop him from the team for someone who is at least going to apply themselves. I honestly think the club is too big for him, he needs to be the best player at a small team to be successful, being around great players affects his confidence too much.
Calling him "mentally pathetic" is a bit over the top. You don't know the guy, best you can say is he seems mentally weak on the pitch.
If you look at where he came from though, there must be some toughness in there. Maybe he's just a bit of a strange character who doesn't fit in with the team or something.
Although I fully agree with Mourinho's demand for much more from him, I think character assassination of someone you don't know is totally unnecessary.
I really want him to come good but fear he's another Kagawa that just can't adapt. At times he's a really classy player, other times he looks like he needs and extra 5 seconds on the ball.
In this City fixture last year I was at the game and he was fecking awful. Hopefully Mou has give him a rest in preparation for this game and he can be given the ball to run at City. (if he plays)
In this City fixture last year I was at the game and he was fecking awful. Hopefully Mou has give him a rest in preparation for this game and he can be given the ball to run at City. (if he plays)
I've followed him since early Dortmund days. Trust me he's as mentally pathetic a player as you will find.
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I doubt Jose ever did that way. Mkhi won two games with Armenia squad and went back with increased morale to play a game with Pogba first time in a while only finding himself out of the squad completely. He was given 20 minutes later. I watched the game and honestly i did not see what he did wrong in that game except for slipping and losing his chance for an assist. I bet had he scored or assisted it wouldve been different. Im not sure why are people calling his performances a lack of effort. He was always known to run the most during the games. Something has changed, he must ve either had special instructions from the coach or he really has some problems with his form. If thats the case, put him in the gym and make him work on it. Dont fecking say he is a shit player, say he lost his stamina. Needs to gain it back. I bet he will be back after City game.
That doesn't really mean anything other than being insulting though does it? Take Sol Campbell, complete nutter and little bitch. Yet he was also a leader who put in performances in big games. Was he mentally pathetic or not? Believe it or not, you can't put everyone into a neat little box.
Being mentally pathetic isn't meant as an insult, although maybe the adjective should have been "incredibly weak". He is just a player who can't deal with any pressure in an even slightly decent way. When he was linked with United I made the point that he couldn't deal with the pressure at Dortmund, which I felt was non-existent. When things are going well he's fantastic, but the second everything isn't rosy in the garden even at a Dortmund club that would always finish second regardless of his performances he'd disappear and have to be played for months back into form.
I'm not one for stats over context but his goal output is literally indicative of his mentality before he signed.
10/11 - 4/27
11/12 - 11/37
12/13 - 29/42
13/14 - 13/46
14/15 - 5/42
15/16 - 23/52
That's across one very easy league and one relatively easy league. One fair weather 6 months caused Dortmund to sign him.and another fair weather 6 months caused United to do likewise.
You don't see what he does wrong because you aren't Mourinho. Our manager isn't looking for a great pass or a great flick. He's looking for the consistent levels of effort that contribute to good performances even when you aren't at your best. He's looking for you to fight for the team even if you're struggling technically.
You say "if he'd have scored or assisted" and you're as wrong as you could be. Mourinho gives literally no shits about that. Mata has adapted his game and despite having very few goals/assists he'll remain part of the squad. Lingard will always be trusted whether he scores or not. The reason being is Mourinho needs to know that the eleven players he puts out are going to bleed for the team.
It also isn't about the gym. Again Lingard is light as a feather and a physical weakling. However he's aggressive, hungry and above all hardworking. He will put his body and lungs on the line for the team. He won't float 3 yards away from the opposition as a token gesture, he won't jog slowly towards the goalkeeper... He'll sprint at a opposition to make them play the pass into touch. He'll make the same run 10 times despite not receiving the ball the previous 9. Mkhitaryan allows his head to drop when things don't go his way. Lingard will try harder and harder to make things go his way.
That's the difference between a player who thrives at United and a player at West Ham. Payet has far more talent than Park ever had; but one of those players will be remembered as a top player at a top club. The other won't be remembered a year after their retirement.
Mkhitaryan is a Payet.
Are you saying 13 goals is not good enough playing with Lewa and Reus in 13/14?
You have a selective memory then. The whole idea for Perisic move was based on playing as a left winger, sort of true left winger, which dramatically would have limited Martial's progress. And at 50 mil price tag.
M
Mentally pathetic players dont become record scorers snd players of the year.
Maybe he’s still playing really bad in training too? Who knows? Jose has gotten a positive reaction from everyone he’s dropped. You have to keep up a certain standard of form and effort or you’re out for a month! I think it’s good. It’s just rinse and repeat with every player and their fans. Miki has been off the boil for ages now and he’s gone from starter to behind lingard and mata (who’s also fighting for his future I feel) because they are both playing better than him. He either rises to the challenge or has to move on. If he’s not hungry or talented or stubborn enough to persevere then it’s his loss because the only way is down for him from here given his performances for us.
I don't understand how a player who should be our creative spark in the absence of Pogba, is completely sidelined. I don't think any side is without fault here.
Because he's been terrible for 3 months?
That is nonsense.
One thing I agree with you is that he either has to be in a small team where he is god or he has to increase his self esteem and his game to be able to say 'im not worse than them". Confidence is very important for anyone. I remember, Mkhi being affected by Levandosvki in the Dortmund. He actually upped his game a lot after Leva left. Could be a coincidence. I think, having Zlatan in the team has a similar effect. Its like a gut feeling. I might just be making this up but it is possible that his form started dropping after Zlatan resumed training with the team. Things like this can affect players. Doesnt really mean they are pathetic. Lebron once was saying that during a game you just have to trust your instincts. Overthinking is a sign of a weakness and can break you. This might be happening to Mkhi now. We have all seen how gracious is Mkhi with the ball when he is full of confidence. It doesnt take much though. One good game, one goal, an assist and you are back in the game. Ive played poker at a proffesional level a lot. One good move can boost you up and bring back the confidence that you need. Not that poker has anything to do with football. Im just expressing my personal experience at a proffesional level. When you are deep in 3rd day of a 3000 player tournament. Any weakness and lack of concentration can cost you the tournament.
A long time to be following a player you describe as "mentally pathetic." Don't quite get that.
I don't think he's good enough for United but he's hardly pathetic. There are lots and lots of footballers who can't quite cope with the responsibility of playing for a huge club.
He hasn't shown any kind of creativity when Pogba was absent though.
I don't hate him, but he has been slaughtered for 2 months for his terrible performance and he was never sent to bench then due to lack of options. He completely deserves the treatment he's getting now because he had 2 months to prove his worth to the team in absence of Pogba and he failed miserably. Lingard has produced the kind of counter attacks against Aesenal that that guy should have been done against Liverpool and Chelsea.
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Lets discuss this. First of all, Mkhi was never bought to be our creativity spark. He has never been and will never be the type of a player you all are talking about. IF you are looking for that kind of a player, get Ozil, Willian may be. Mkhi is very good at speeding up the counters (at least he was) and he is very good at fast paced attacks and quick decisions. Jose is playing a totally different ball game. That is why Mkhi didnt play the first three months last year. He was trying to teach him Mourinho style. It worked for a little while until things fell apart with Pogba being out. That tells us one thing. Jose has built the team around Pogba whose absence is super critical for the team. Jose needs another creator as a back up. Im not sure how Jose will manage to keep two top creators in one team. He probably needs to have something similar to a Kroos, Modric combination. Im having a hard time to come up with a correct choice. There arent that many top class footballers that can fit the profile. Jose has also been known to play very defensively. Defending is the bearing stone in his teams. I suspect that is the problem with MKhi. He simply doesnt want to do that much running. He probably realized that he wont be able to handle it physically.
Another Post Soviet player was Arshavin. The guy was super talented and was an amazing goal scorer. He didn't have the stamina for EPL. He was saying that his lungs are burning after each game. Indeed, the guy didnt last long even though he scored a bunch of goals, particularly, I remember his Poker against Liverpool.
Remember, when the ball was getting to Mkhi we always had a feeling that something is gonna happen. He was fast, aggressive, smart. I dont fecking know what happened to him. Mental problems? I doubt it. He has achieved a lot taking challenge after challenge. He wouldn't have achieved all that.
One thing I noticed that we stopped seeing those nice counters because every time he got the ball he would carry a little and pass to Lukaku. Romelu would turn back and pass back or lose the ball. Mkhi would either pass to Lukaku or stop and play safe. No more risking, no crazy runs. I think he started playing safe to be able to keep his starting position. He probably thought "if I feck up and lose the ball they will crucify me. Id rather play safe".
How to solve this problem?
1. We can get rid of him. Which means we will still lose a lot of quality. MKhi has a lot of qualities that we need you all have to admit. On the other hand if it takes too much to fix the problem we should sell him. United is a rich club and I dont see why we cant find someone else who will fit better the strategy and game style that Mourinho favors.
2. We keep him to use on the wings when we need creativity or we need a counter attacking football. Mkhi is a very intelligent player who can come up with some important game changing plays. Dont forget that. It is easy to forget.
Not a rocket science. Time will tell. Yet another player will go. Big deal. Right?
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Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. How is Mourinho's football different from speeding counter attacks that you claim Mikhi is good at ? Everyone knows that Mourinho wants his team to move the ball forward fast and do quick lightning counter attacks.
No one can say Lingard is creative like Ozil but he thrived in our counter attacking system against Watford and Arsenal. Mourinho wanted Mikhi to link these counter attacks against Liverpool and Chelsea and he failed miserably. The problem then lies in only one person and that's Mikhi.
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