Has political correctness actually gone mad?

Omar Little said:
I wouldn't say I have an easy life and definitely not had a privileged one but I think I could get behind the idea that my life is certainly less complicated by the fact that I'm a straight, white, male. I don't see a problem with saying something like that and certainly have no problem with other people feeling that way.
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Yeah but guys like you aren't the problem.

It's the intellectually superior alpha males who are constantly oppressed by stupid weak women in power. Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter gibe or taunt."Sarcasm may employ ambivalence, although sarcasm is not necessarily ironic. "The distinctive quality of sarcasm is present in the spoken word and manifested chiefly by vocal inflections". The sarcastic content of a statement will be dependent upon the context in which it appears. wiki
 
Wibble said:
I totally agree. Sadly many straight, white males think that just because their lives aren't perfect that this means that they are discriminated against.
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Abizzz said:
Yeah but guys like you aren't the problem.

It's the intellectually superior alpha males who are constantly oppressed by stupid weak women in power.
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I just don't get it. Why can't we live in a world where the majority just want whats best for themselves AND everyone else? Is that just too idealistic or do we actually live in a world like that but all the attention goes to the negative people? Is it a case of those with noting real to say, make the most noise?
 
Silva said:
I'm yet to hear a coherent argument against them. It usually winds up be something to do with the end of free speech (which most of the world has less of than America, where the safe spaces are, anyway).

Coincidentally, there is a safe space when the football forums are in meltdown and you want to avoid them. I'm sure someone will be along in a moment to tell us we shouldn't avoid the doom and gloom when we draw a match.
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Not to mention that considering the way they're talked about, you'd think they're incredibly prevalent and used by everyone. I'm not sure I know anyone who's really ever used them in a university campus context...and that would completely go against this bizarre, hyperbolic argument that they're leading to our current generations to become weaker, or whatever other accusations are thrown around.
 
Cheesy said:
Not to mention that considering the way they're talked about, you'd think they're incredibly prevalent and used by everyone. I'm not sure I know anyone who's really ever used them in a university campus context...and that would completely go against this bizarre, hyperbolic argument that they're leading to our current generations to become weaker, or whatever other accusations are thrown around.
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Maybe one of your friends was in a Board Game society? Such an evil institution, why can't people not play boardgames!!!!
 
Silva said:
Maybe one of your friends was in a Board Game society? Such an evil institution, why can't people not play boardgames!!!!
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Snakes and ladders! Back in my day it was Muslims and Hammers!!
 
Can we at least agree, that clicking or jazz hands in place of clapping, verges on the ridiculous?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Can we at least agree, that clicking or jazz hands in place of clapping, verges on the ridiculous?
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I just googled that. Yes we can.

Seriously though, I would feel really sorry for anyone that suffered so badly from anxiety, that even a round of applause could make them feel bad. That must be shit.
 
hobbers said:
I don't think anyone really has an issue with safe spaces per se. There are plenty examples of them that are totally respectable and necessary, like with AA or basically any kind of support network.

But there are also the kind seen in college campuses that I think are totally destructive to intellectual inquiry. When the socially liberal Christina Hoff Sommers visited a college to give a talk to correct a few of the bogus feminist statistics, they needed to put on a safe space for people who weren't even attending the talk, but couldn't handle the idea of someone being given a platform in their college to promote a few factual arguments that didn't align with their worldview. That sort of safe space is ridiculous in a university environment. Then there are people studying for degrees like criminology expecting trigger warnings for lectures that broach certain subjects.. I mean, really? Life has no trigger warnings so in terms of preparing students for the real world this is a pretty negligent idea.

This sort of idiotic thinking is also spawning campaigns for dorms to be segregated by race. For political debates or seminars to take place in white-free zones. Lunacy.
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Spot on. Safe spaces for various minorities is a good thing, but you described the issue perfectly. A university should be a place for discourse and intellectual exchange, not a echo chamber that treats you like a child. This goes for people on both ends of the spectrum really, but if you are so blinkered that you can't bear to hear an opposing view without organizing a protest or go into hiding, you aren't mature enough to attend a University imo.

This kind of trench warfare mindset does no good, and it never has.

The stuff about trigger warnings piss me off though because it makes light of people with actual anxiety disorders and instead it's being used to push an agenda. Don't tell me that Caucasian people get "triggered" to the point of needing professional help by reading Huckleberry Finn because it showcases racism.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Can we at least agree, that clicking or jazz hands in place of clapping, verges on the ridiculous?
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Verges? It's way past verging. I find the whole trigger thing very confusing. It basically inflicts the irrational anxieties of one individual onto everbody else. And even for that individual I'm not sure its healthy to go through life avoiding anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. Seems like a sure fire way to increase the anxiety you feel when you eventually, inevitably, experience a situation that triggers you in a far less controlled environment than - say - a university lecture.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Can we at least agree, that clicking or jazz hands in place of clapping, verges on the ridiculous?
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This is a new one to me. I thought that gatherings of hearing-impaired people sometimes do the jazz hand gesture instead of clapping. Why would clapping be a problem for anyone not hearing-impaired?
 
Surely one of the benefits of attending university is to be open to and to experience new and different situations, opinions and world views? Anyone not prepared to deal with that shouldn't be there.
Can you imagine when some of these goons hit the workplace? Their poor fragile little minds will implode :(
 
Classical Mechanic said:
We'll make a feminist out of you yet.
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To the extent that feminism means securing equality for women, I already consider myself a feminist. Id like to see more women in politics, Id like to see cabinets with a roughly even split between the sexes. Id have liked to see a woman president in the US. Id like to see women paid the same as men (which I think will require men being encouraged to take half of "maternity" leave.)

But these days I see more anti man sentiment among some feminists, so that is where the movement loses me.
 
Adebesi said:
To the extent that feminism means securing equality for women, I already consider myself a feminist. Id like to see more women in politics, Id like to see cabinets with a roughly even split between the sexes. Id have liked to see a woman president in the US. Id like to see women paid the same as men (which I think will require men being encouraged to take half of "maternity" leave.)

But these days I see more anti man sentiment among some feminists, so that is where the movement loses me.
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I broadly agree except for the maternity issue. The bond between mother and child is qualitatively unique, it is fundamental psychology. I think most mothers want to spend those important and irreplaceable times with their child and that is why you see little movement in the maternity leave figures despite best efforts to change the culture.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I broadly agree except for the maternity issue. The bond between mother and child is qualitatively unique, it is fundamental psychology. I think most mothers want to spend those important and irreplaceable times with their child and that is why you see little movement in the maternity leave figures despite best efforts to change the culture.
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Perhaps, in which case I think the price for that will be theyll never close the gap entirely on pay / opportunities at work. The only way to eradicate it completely is make it so that businesses are just as likely to see men taking extended leave as women. Unless they take the positive discrimination route.
 
Omar Little said:
I just googled that. Yes we can.

Seriously though, I would feel really sorry for anyone that suffered so badly from anxiety, that even a round of applause could make them feel bad. That must be shit.
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Yeah same. I feel really bad for people who will genuinely have an unpleasant experience from something as innocuous as clapping or the mere mention of a word that relates to some sort of traumatic experience. A lecture or a comedy club or whatever probably isn't the best place for someone like that until they've sought psychiatric help to overcome it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Verges? It's way past verging. I find the whole trigger thing very confusing. It basically inflicts the irrational anxieties of one individual onto everbody else.
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But isn't that just the bone-headed way of doing things in many institutions - particularly in regard to punishment for indiscipline - and therefore not exclusive to this subject? You know how it goes: one person throws a paper plane in class and doesn't own up = everyone gets detention; one soldier breaks the rules = every soldier has to scrub the barracks. It's idiotic, and typical of the stale thinking which results from dull & misguided leadership.
 
Bobcat said:
But when it comes to the part with cultural appropriation, i can't agree with you for a number of reasons.
1) Just because you wear a costume, a hairstyle or basically anything emulating a different culture, past or present does NOT mean you seek to "strip the historical, indigenous, or religious significance" from it. Unless done so in a obviously mocking or deriding fashion you can't simply assume ill intent from the person doing so.
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But it does "strip the historical, indigenous, or religious significance". The fact that people don't intent it to be insulting or whatever doesn't meant that it isn't harmful by reducing people race, religion, colour or whatever to a party joke.

2) Costumes at their very essence are stereotypes. If you went to a Halloween party dressed in regular clothes and told people you went as a Mexican, i guess most people would find it lame. It would still be a more truthful representation though, because Mexicans do not in fact wear sombreros on ponchos on a regular basis, they wear the jeans and t-shirts like everyone else.
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Isn't dressing up just making fun of that stereotype then? Blackface isn't funny so surely neither is a sombrero wearing "Mexican".

3) People dressing up or using something from a different culture, does not mean there is some hidden implication behind it.
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It doesn't have to be done with the intent to hurt, hidden or otherwise. If the people who are being stereotyped don't like it then surely this is more than good enough a reason not to do it?

4) If you are going to use the sins of colonialism as yard stick for what is acceptable or not, then pretty much any use or participation of "ethnic" culture would be considered offensive.
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Pretty much I'd say. Fancy dress is lame at the best of times but I'm sure there are enough superheros and cartoon characters to go around if absolutely necessary.
 
Wibble said:
Fancy dress is lame at the best of times but I'm sure there are enough superheros and cartoon characters to go around if absolutely necessary.
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Yeah, I'm not keen on our home kit either, chief.
 
SteveJ said:
But isn't that just the bone-headed way of doing things in many institutions - particularly in regard to punishment for indiscipline - and therefore not exclusive to this subject? You know how it goes: one person throws a paper plane in class and doesn't own up = everyone gets detention; one soldier breaks the rules = every soldier has to scrub the barracks. It's idiotic, and typical of the stale thinking which results from dull & misguided leadership.
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Kind of? I don't think its the norm in universities though. Individuals who break rules (cheating in exams, selling drugs on campus etc) are punished as individuals. Would be uproar if the authorities behaved any differently.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Kind of? I don't think its the norm in universities though. Individuals who break rules (cheating in exams, selling drugs on campus etc) are punished as individuals.
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That's only because people who are presumed to be intelligent get treated differently to those deemed cannon/factory fodder.
 
Yes - I demand that you are shot at dawn. Please set your alarm.
 
Right! Executions for everyone! Don't say I didn't warn you!
 
Silva said:
See, when someone does provide a concrete example of an absurd safe space it's easy to go "Those stupid students, how will they cope in the real world?" unless, of course, you spend a minute or two looking it up. Which would reveal that hobbers is regurgitating the breitbart version of the story that leaves out a detail or two - namely that the safe space was for sexual assault survivors.

And people wonder why some of us think the whole resistance towards them is based on bullshit.
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Why did you think those links made your case any stronger? To quote from your link..

Other students opened up a “safe space” in a Maguire Hall classroom to support sexual assault survivors who were emotionally triggered by Sommers’ talk.
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Further reading of your link shows that because Sommers had previously taken issue with the idea of rape culture, students had decided that her lecture on feminism at Georgetown (which we should remembered had not actually happened at this point) was going to cause trauma to sexual assault survivors.

So basically a group of students decided that the opinions of a lecturer and intellectual were so negative that they would cause trauma to vulnerable people. Before that lecturer had been given the opportunity to even walk into the hall and open her mouth. What kind of message exactly do you think this kind of behavour encourages? Who decides exactly what should and shouldn't be labelled with a 'trigger warning' or require a support group safe space set up? Is there a process of appeal for people who are falsely accused of holding vile views and have their reputations damaged by these actions, or can we just find some form of privilege in there that makes it all ok?
 
Kentonio said:
Why did you think those links made your case any stronger? To quote from your link..



Further reading of your link shows that because Sommers had previously taken issue with the idea of rape culture, students had decided that her lecture on feminism at Georgetown (which we should remembered had not actually happened at this point) was going to cause trauma to sexual assault survivors.

So basically a group of students decided that the opinions of a lecturer and intellectual were so negative that they would cause trauma to vulnerable people. Before that lecturer had been given the opportunity to even walk into the hall and open her mouth. What kind of message exactly do you think this kind of behavour encourages? Who decides exactly what should and shouldn't be labelled with a 'trigger warning' or require a support group safe space set up? Is there a process of appeal for people who are falsely accused of holding vile views and have their reputations damaged by these actions, or can we just find some form of privilege in there that makes it all ok?
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There's a difference between avoiding other world views, as hobbers suggested, to students opening a safe space for victims of sexual assault. It might be worth pointing out Sommers is an active member of a right wing think tank and a lot of feminists perceive her as a rape apologist. So, as I said earlier, this is another case of a half-story being told. The "safe space" was literally run by 2 or 3 students for sexual abuse survivors who might need somewhere, well, safe, while the talk (and corresponding protests) were happening. What's the problem with that? Should those 2 or 3 students have stopped caring about sexual assault survivors? "Listen, ladies, I know this might be a tough day for you, but there's a few white men on Redcafe saying you need to toughen up, so get the feck on with it."

Besides, protests are part and parcel of student activism. Including protesting people the students didn't much care for. Why are they all of a sudden being fannies for doing what students have been doing for decades? Because they suddenly use vocabulary you're new to?
 
Silva said:
There's a difference between avoiding other world views, as hobbers suggested, to students opening a safe space for victims of sexual assault. It might be worth pointing out Sommers is an active member of a right wing think tank and a lot of feminists perceive her as a rape apologist. So, as I said earlier, this is another case of a half-story being told. The "safe space" was literally run by 2 or 3 students for sexual abuse survivors who might need somewhere, well, safe, while the talk (and corresponding protests) were happening. What's the problem with that? Should those 2 or 3 students have stopped caring about sexual assault survivors? "Listen, ladies, I know this might be a tough day for you, but there's a few white men on Redcafe saying you need to toughen up, so get the feck on with it."

Besides, protests are part and parcel of student activism. Why are they all of a sudden being fannies for doing what students have been doing for decades? Because they suddenly use vocabulary you're new to?
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Why would you need a 'safe space' to go to while someone held a lecture you weren't attending? Are such spaces also required for times when there's something on TV that might trigger you despite you not watching it?
 
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