Has political correctness actually gone mad?

vi1lain said:
I normally agree with you on a lot of topics, but I could not disagree with you more on this ‘overpopulation’ schtick.
Especially since fingers are pointed at third world countries and continents like Africa and South Asia and how the average family are having 5/6 kids and it’s somehow draining the planet of its resources. It’s ridiculous.

Who are the people always said to be overpopulating? Now compare that to who the people hoarding all of the resources and causing the biggest issues when it comes to the environment, ecological health, over-consumption/waste of water and food, AND excess breeding of farm animals.
Is the issue the number of people on the planet surpassing the resources available? Or is it that the resources are entirely hoarded by a small percentage of the world population that happens to also be utilizing those resources in tandem with the most inhumane, spiritiually deficient, and hedonistic lifestyle/philosophy as a result of modernity? Who are the ones most polluting the planet? The people in Bangladesh and Nairobi?

No of course it isn’t.

I agree that the resources are being used at a much faster rate than they should be, but that’s not the fault of Africans or South Asians.

And if you’re serious about the planet being overpopulated then the Americans and Europeans should be the first to go.

Also most families in Africa who do have 5 kids barely have the money or resources to sustain them beyond the poverty line - which results in children dying under the age of 5. So yeah the mothers may birth multiple kids but not all reach adulthood.
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Excellent post.
 
vi1lain said:
I normally agree with you on a lot of topics, but I could not disagree with you more on this ‘overpopulation’ schtick.
Especially since fingers are pointed at third world countries and continents like Africa and South Asia and how the average family are having 5/6 kids and it’s somehow draining the planet of its resources. It’s ridiculous.

Who are the people always said to be overpopulating? Now compare that to who the people hoarding all of the resources and causing the biggest issues when it comes to the environment, ecological health, over-consumption/waste of water and food, AND excess breeding of farm animals.
Is the issue the number of people on the planet surpassing the resources available? Or is it that the resources are entirely hoarded by a small percentage of the world population that happens to also be utilizing those resources in tandem with the most inhumane, spiritiually deficient, and hedonistic lifestyle/philosophy as a result of modernity? Who are the ones most polluting the planet? The people in Bangladesh and Nairobi?

No of course it isn’t.

I agree that the resources are being used at a much faster rate than they should be, but that’s not the fault of Africans or South Asians.

And if you’re serious about the planet being overpopulated then the Americans and Europeans should be the first to go.

Also most families in Africa who do have 5 kids barely have the money or resources to sustain them beyond the poverty line - which results in children dying under the age of 5. So yeah the mothers may birth multiple kids but not all reach adulthood.
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Who are this small percentage that monopolise all of the world’s resources and where are they all based, exactly?

Because it seems as though you’re denying that excessive consumption of resources happens outside of wealthy Western countries. Which is, of course, nonsense. There are actually some middle class people in Africa and Southern Asia, right?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Who are this small percentage that monopolise all of the world’s resources and where are they all based, exactly?

Because it seems as though you’re denying that excessive consumption of resources happens outside of wealthy Western countries. Which is, of course, nonsense. There are actually some middle class people in Africa and Southern Asia, right?
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Mostly Europe and America.

Of course there are middle class and wealthy people in Africa and Southern Asia, I didn’t say otherwise.
I’m not talking about wealth - most of Africa doesn’t even have electricity 24/7, running water, large areas of farmland for food etc. there is simply a lack of resources. Being middle class won’t stop you from suffering from a lack of structural resources in the country or poor infrastructure.

You can’t deny that western civilisation is largely responsible for the waste of resources in the world, fuel, food, waste, water etc. I’m not saying that there is no country outside America and Europe that doesn’t waste any resources.

And of course I’m not saying that places like Calcutta, or Rio for example aren’t overpopulated - they obviously are - and that can produce it’s own waste, but most of that is down to poor infrastructure, not necessarily overconsumption.
However if the argument is about the rate at which resources are disappearing from the planet, and what the reasons are for that - it’s not because we have a lot of people on the planet, but rather the distribution of resources is heavily saturated in America and Europe especially.

Food waste in Europe and America alone is up to 10x per capita than Africa and South Asia. And food waste is the biggest contributor to the carbon footprint.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/08/which-countries-waste-the-most-food/

Then you think about all the processes involved in producing the food, from farming, transportation, packaging etc.
 
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vi1lain said:
Mostly Europe and America.

Of course there are middle class and wealthy people in Africa and Southern Asia, I didn’t say otherwise.
I’m not talking about wealth - most of Africa doesn’t even have electricity 24/7, running water, large areas of farmland for food etc. there is simply a lack of resources. Being middle class won’t stop you from suffering from a lack of structural resources in the country or poor infrastructure.

You can’t deny that western civilisation is largely responsible for the waste of resources in the world, fuel, food, waste, water etc. I’m not saying that there is no country outside America and Europe that doesn’t waste any resources.

And of course I’m not saying that places like Calcutta, or Rio for example aren’t overpopulated - they obviously are - and that can produce it’s own waste, but most of that is down to poor infrastructure, not necessarily overconsumption.
However if the argument is about the rate at which resources are disappearing from the planet, and what the reasons are for that - it’s not because we have a lot of people on the planet, but rather the distribution of resources is heavily saturated in America and Europe especially.

Food waste in Europe and America alone is up to 10x per capita than Africa and South Africa. And food waste is the biggest contributor to the carbon footprint.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/08/which-countries-waste-the-most-food/

Then you think about all the processes involved in producing the food, from farming, transportation, packaging etc.
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Any stats like that will be heavily influenced by the standard of living for the average European being much higher than that for the average African/South Asian. And that’s because the proportion of people living in poverty is so much lower in more developed countries. Including millions of people living in abject poverty in your analysis will inevitably make the per capita figures for resource consumption.

The mistake you’re making is inferring from these sort of stats that over-consumption and wasting of the planet’s natural resources is uniquely a European/American problem. It isn’t. In general, the more populous a country, the bigger a drain on resources it is likely to be. That’s one statistic that holds true, no matter where you live. In fact, there’s a lot of evidence that the ever increasing numbers of middle class people in developing countries is the single biggest problem the world faces in terms of carbon footprint. It’s a cruel irony that any steps towars ending poverty are also steps towards killing the planet we live on.
 
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How many pages back do i have to read to figure out what overpopulation and poverty have to do with political correctness?
Want to catch up.

Is it something about immigration, that made the discussion go that way, maybe?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Any stats like that will be heavily influenced by the standard of living for the average European being much higher than that for the average African/South Asian. And that’s because the proportion of people living in poverty is so much lower in more developed countries.

The mistake you’re making is inferring from these sort of stats that over-consumption and wasting of the planet’s natural resources is uniquely a European/American problem. It isn’t. In general, the more populous a country, the bigger a drain on resources it is likely to be. That’s one statistic that holds true, no matter where you live.
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The proportion of poverty is not that much lower to justify up to 10x food wastage per capita.
But we can talk about the statistics per person also, according to this report;
http://uk.businessinsider.com/which-parts-of-the-world-waste-the-most-food-2016-3?r=US&IR=T
Nearly 3x as food is wasted per person, regardless of populous of the country.

So i'm not entirely sure how you argue that the more populous a country, the bigger a drain on resources it is likely to be - i'd be keen to see figures on that though of course, considering India alone has a population similar to the entire continent of Africa, then you should see both of those regions at the top of the wastage charts.
And somewhere like say Nigeria having a higher % of wastage than the UK, given it's got nearly 3x the population.
 
vi1lain said:
The proportion of poverty is not that much lower to justify up to 10x food wastage per capita.
But we can talk about the statistics per person also, according to this report;
http://uk.businessinsider.com/which-parts-of-the-world-waste-the-most-food-2016-3?r=US&IR=T
Nearly 3x as food is wasted per person, regardless of populous of the country.


So i'm not entirely sure how you argue that the more populous a country, the bigger a drain on resources it is likely to be - i'd be keen to see figures on that though of course, considering India alone has a population similar to the entire continent of Africa, then you should see both of those regions at the top of the wastage charts.
And somewhere like say Nigeria having a higher % of wastage than the UK, given it's got nearly 3x the population.
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Like I said, the per person wasteage in developing countries will be brought down massively by having a huge proportion of their population living in poverty. Which is not the same thing as your implication that only people living in the West lead wasteful, consumerist lifestyles. There are literally millions and millions of people in Africa/Asia to whom the exact same description applies.

Moving away from per person to per country stats then obviously the most populous countries will be nearer the top of the charts. Even if their per capita figures are near the lower end. That’s simple mathematics.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Any stats like that will be heavily influenced by the standard of living for the average European being much higher than that for the average African/South Asian. And that’s because the proportion of people living in poverty is so much lower in more developed countries. Including millions of people living in abject poverty in your analysis will inevitably make the per capita figures for resource consumption.

The mistake you’re making is inferring from these sort of stats that over-consumption and wasting of the planet’s natural resources is uniquely a European/American problem. It isn’t. In general, the more populous a country, the bigger a drain on resources it is likely to be. That’s one statistic that holds true, no matter where you live. In fact, there’s a lot of evidence that the ever increasing numbers of middle class people in developing countries is the single biggest problem the world faces in terms of carbon footprint. It’s a cruel irony that any steps towars ending poverty are also steps towards killing the planet we live on.
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Ummm...it actually is. Because the consumers for the majority of the products produced in these nations are in the states/Europe. For example, You wouldn't have your iPhone if Apple couldn't take a massive dump on China's carbon footprint. Not sure why you'd want to make a case against what the stats reveal.
 
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entropy said:
Ummm...it actually is. Because the consumers for the majority of the products being produced in these nations are in the states/Europe. Not sure why you'd want to make a case against what the stats reveal.
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Quite possibly. And we can argue the toss about the size of that majority. I don’t actually know the numbers of middle class people in Europe/America vs Africa/South-East Asia but I’m willing to accept that the former out-number the latter. The only thing I’m objecting to here is that leading a wasteful, consumerist lifestyle is something unique to Europe/America. Which is clearly nonsense.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Quite possibly. And we can argue the toss about the size of that majority. I don’t actually know the numbers of middle class people in Europe/America vs Africa/South-East Asia but I’m willing to accept that the former out-number the latter. The only thing I’m objecting to here is that leading a wasteful, consumerist lifestyle is something unique to Europe/America. Which is clearly nonsense.
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It isn't nonsense. In fact, it is the fundamental problem plaguing this issue. Because almost every product you consume on a daily basis has its roots in a factory somewhere in Asia or Africa.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Like I said, the per person wasteage in developing countries will be brought down massively by having a huge proportion of their population living in poverty. Which is not the same thing as your implication that only people living in the West lead wasteful, consumerist lifestyles. There are literally millions and millions of people in Africa/Asia to whom the exact same description applies.

Moving away from per person to per country stats then obviously the most populous countries will be nearer the top of the charts. Even if their per capita figures are near the lower end. That’s simple mathematics.
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But again - for the third time - I didn't say that only people living in the West lead wasteful, consumerist lifestyles.

I've put up two seperate reports that show that both per capita and per person, America & Europe are the most wasteful regions in the world.
This publication: http://www.grida.no/publications/264
Shows that the developed countries consume more than 60% of the world industrial raw materials and only comprise 22% of the world's population - you haven't showed any statistics or facts that show anything on the contrary.

It sounds like you're taking objection to the word "entirely" in my sentence, which was hyperbole but doesn't take away from the fact.
 
entropy said:
It isn't nonsense. In fact, it is the fundamental problem plaguing this issue. Because almost every product you consume on a daily basis has its roots in a factory somewhere in Asia or Africa.
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It is absolute nonsense. Patronising nonsense too. As though everyone outside Europe/America lives a subsistence lifestyle, wearing leaves and living in mud huts. Which is, of course bollox. For example, the developing world is actually one of the main growth drivers for companies that sell luxury goods.
 
vi1lain said:
But again - for the third time - I didn't say that only people living in the West lead wasteful, consumerist lifestyles.

I've put up two seperate reports that show that both per capita and per person, America & Europe are the most wasteful regions in the world.
This publication: http://www.grida.no/publications/264
Shows that the developed countries consume more than 60% of the world industrial raw materials and only comprise 22% of the world's population - you haven't showed any statistics or facts that show anything on the contrary.

It sounds like you're taking objection to the word "entirely" in my sentence, which was hyperbole but doesn't take away from the fact.
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That’s exactly what I’m doing. There are people in almost every country in the world leading wasteful, consumerist lifestyles. Implying that this isn’t an issue for anyone other than Europeans/Americans is plain wrong.
 
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The only fact here is that you’ve refused to acknowledge the data provided by other posters regarding the issue. Instead, you want to shift the discussion to something else completely. I couldn’t give a feck less tbh. Because your argument is both weak and hilariously silly. Middle class population in developing countries will never come close to the same amount of carbon footprint generated by their western counter parts.
 
Whenever I find that my larder is bare I always blame the five (soon to be six) fatties that just rocked up rather than the 50 juggernauts already populating my kitchen. After all it's the johnny come lately's what took the last tin.
 
entropy said:
The only fact here is that you’ve refused to acknowledge the data provided by other posters regarding the issue. Instead, you want to shift the discussion to something else completely. I couldn’t give a feck less tbh. Because your argument is both weak and hilariously silly. Middle class population in developing countries will never come close to the same amount of carbon footprint generated by their western counter parts.
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Well I guess that’s why I never said nor implied it would. And you accuse me of shifting the discussion? Ironic.

It’s obvious that the wealthiest countries use the most resources. That should go without saying. If we’re serious about keeping a lid on global warming then pretending excessive consumerism is only an issue for Europe/America is not only wrong it’s dangerous. It’s a good thing that the developing world is, well... developing but as living standards continue to rise in some of the most populous countries in the world then they are absolutely going to play their part in global warming. In fact, they already are.
 
vi1lain said:
Whaaat! This is the season Louise & Alik reignite their romance, it's exciting stuff
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Pogue Mahone said:
I hate myself for knowing who you’re talking about :(
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This hallowed forum is a sanctuary of culture and sophistication; shame on the pair of you!

Steven J,
President of Kylie Party Balloons inc.
 
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Raoul said:
Social Media muppets up in arms after Sean Penn lights up a cigarette on Colbert's show.

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had a quick search on twitter, there's literally less than 50 people who had an issue with it, 100-150 if you include all the likes too.

There's more people saying it's not a big deal that he's smoking.

I fail to see how this "social media muppets up in arms"

CNN are literally scraping for news at this point, and people fall for it under the guise of PC gone mad.
 
I thought he had a Russian hat on.
 
vi1lain said:
had a quick search on twitter, there's literally less than 50 people who had an issue with it, 100-150 if you include all the likes too.

There's more people saying it's not a big deal that he's smoking.

I fail to see how this "social media muppets up in arms"

CNN are literally scraping for news at this point, and people fall for it under the guise of PC gone mad.
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I agree its not a big deal. CNN are obviously trying to fan the flames a bit here.
 
Yep. I even like his directing.
Still, his hair in that photo reminds me of Scut Farkus' raccoon hat (from A Christmas Story).
 
Claims of free speech crisis on campuses ‘exaggerated’, say MPs

Allegations that ‘snowflake’ students are routinely restricting freedom of speech are overblown, says parliamentary inquiry


Claims that “censorious students” have created a “free speech crisis” in UK universities are “exaggerated” and “clearly out of kilter with reality”, a parliamentary inquiry into freedom of speech has said.

In a wide-ranging report by the Joint Committee on Human Rights published on 27 March, MPs and peers report that the idea that student groups are frequently using “no platforming” and “safe space” policies to stifle free speech has been overblown by media reporting.
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https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/claims-free-speech-crisis-campuses-exaggerated-say-mps
 
Having watched the documentary that Hari Kondabolu produced it's a valid point of view. More to do with the lack of cultural figures of Indian background on TV. I think The Simpsons response to it was quite weak particularly using Lisa Simpson to deliver the message of "It's PC gone mad!" when they could have been a bit more nuanced.
 
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