Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

No, but nobody will be backed long term. You have to perform, and i hope we buy or make competition from the inside. That is how it should be

If he can stay injury free, big if, i see him doing well with Rashford and Bruno (maybe another RW and CM).
 
He's done enough to play there the rest of this season, and to hope that along with Rashford we can use him to build an attack around.

It's pointless to think longer term though. It'll depend who we sign, how we decide to play etc.

He's not in the class of someone you build a team around. Rashford and Fernandes are closer to that level and potentially can get there, but I wouldn't put any of our forward players firmly in that bracket.

I wouldn't rule out Martial reaching that level either but it's really hard to tell with him. Some games you watch him and it just looks easy to him and you think he could get 30 a season. Then other games he spends 90% of the time just pissing about pointlessly on the left wing and seems to have the shooting ability of Gary Neville.
 
hmchan said:
Interesting to see so many bring up Firmino in this discussion. Despite only scoring 1 goal at home this season, he demonstrates a much better center forward play than Martial, which is an essential element in modern days. Rather than just goalscoring, you'll want your strikers to be heavily involved in the link up play, hold off opponents and protect the ball up front, drag opponents out and create spaces for teammates etc.

For me Martial just hasn't done enough in these aspects. I don't think Ole is satisfied either from the way he compliments Ighalo, and suggests he offers something we've been lacking since the start of the season. When other top strikers are in bad form, they can still create chances and spaces for their teammates; but when Martial is having a bad day, it's like we are playing with a man down, and that's one of the reasons why we struggle to break down smaller teams.

Also, if you really want to play the Liverpool way, you'll need great attacking fullbacks to take up the spaces left behind by the wide forwards cutting inside. I don't think there's much debate that Wan-Bissaka, Shaw and Williams aren't capable of posing offensive threats like Arnold and Robertson do. In fact, I think we're more suited to the City way where wingers take up the wide positions allowing the midfielders to go forward, unleashing the attacking quality of Pogba and Bruno.

Having said that, I don't think it's urgent for us to sign a striker especially with Ighalo as a reliable backup, and Martial is going to keep his spot at least for the next season. He'll have all the time he needs to improve, but we have to reconsider our choices in the long run if little progress is seen.
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Mate you talk about creating space for who?

Rashford literally craps his pants without Martial as a support striker :lol: how many times do you have to see this?

Rashford literally says with his own mouth how he has to play work Martial.

Then Martial plays the season with one inside cutting in forward in Rashford and one touchline hugging winger in Daniel James which would do absolutely nothing for Martial nor Firmino. How would Firmino do with daniel James? Better than with Salah? Not a chance.

Martial would be better out there with Rashford and Greenwood beside him because he gets to go out and be a support striker to two strikers on either side of him.

Whenever he did do that he looked different class and we as a team looked different class.


Daniel James is actually quite a highlight because the lad crosses in to the box any chance he gets and shows why some regard Martial as a poor striker because a) should be working on his ability to get in to the box and get on the end of these things or b) some find him a very useful systematic support striker that need the clinical strikers next to him.

I remember not long ago people were calling Martial the most clinical striker in our team just because he could curve in a shot but our more clinical strikers are clearly clearly Rashford and Greenwood - Martial is just the glue that brings them together from wider positions.
 
I think he's done well this season as a nine. Rashford's form dramatically improved when Martial returned from injury and then Martial's form dropped when Rashford got injured. I think they both suffer when they have to line up with back-ups. I honestly believe Martial is the least of our problems and with a new RW we'll see the best of him and Rashford
 
Borussia Teeth said:
I think he's done well this season as a nine. Rashford's form dramatically improved when Martial returned from injury and then Martial's form dropped when Rashford got injured. I think they both suffer when they have to line up with back-ups. I honestly believe Martial is the least of our problems and with a new RW we'll see the best of him and Rashford
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Didn't Rashford's form with England pick up around the same time though?
 
No he hasn't. But he's done enough to be our short term striker while we focus on more pressing positions. When we're done with that and he still hasnt proven to be our no.9 in the long term then we get a better one
 
Putting argument that Rashford like to play with Martial to show that Martial has proven himself is pretty shallow. Because before Ighalo, the option to Martial as striker is pretty much non-existent this season. At the absence of Martial, Rashford couldn't play on his best position.

When we got Ighalo, a striker from Chinese League, people then started to see the benefit of having a proper striker. And Ighalo isn't even close to world class.
 
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It’s strange to see the negativity for Martial in this thread seeing that post-Rashford injury he carried us through the great form we had alongside Bruno.

His link up with Fernandes looks great and I feel like as the season went on he grew more into the role and took on responsibility.

He has improved his heading and hold up play this season, and has switched up his finishing with low snap shots to the near post which keepers don’t expect from Martial, (he whips it across goal normally) maybe something he learned from Greenwood.

He has also improved his left foot shooting too. If the season carried on - he would’ve broken 20 goals easily. I have faith in him.
 
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
It’s strange to see the negativity for Martial in this thread seeing that post-Rashford injury he carried us through the great form we had alongside Bruno.

His link up with Fernandes looks great and I feel like as the season went on he grew more into the role and took on responsibility.

He has improved his heading and hold up play this season, and has switched up his finishing with low snap shots to the near post which keepers don’t expect from Martial, (he whips it across goal normally) maybe something he learned from Greenwood.

He has also improved his left foot shooting too. If the season carried on - he would’ve broken 20 goals easily. I have faith in him.
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I've just grown to accept that he's just not going to be accepted by the majority of the fans here.
It's that aspect of people being uncomfortable not winning and looking instantly at a player who has been important to the trophies, seasons and managers we have won after the SAF era and this delusion that everyone in that era themselves were perfection from top to bottom as a squad.

Like why the constant threads about him and the hate? Why not ditch the chinese league 30 year old striker and get a better version of the 90's league footballer so we both have a false 9 support striker and a world class poacher in our squad? It just wont end because ultimately United to most means success and Martial hasn't bought enough of it whilst they are deluded to think that the others have - when its constantly been the other way around more often than not.
 
11 gaols and 3 assists in 22 PL starts is a good performance. Martial plays well in Ole's systems. We already have a player to compete with Martial = Greenwood. Martial is a better centre-forward than Rashford too. If Martial isn't up for the job it's Greenwood or a new striker.

Striker isn't United's priority position for an upgrade:
(1) a young, fast, fit, centre-back to partner Maguire should be top of the list.
(2) A centre defensive-midfield specialist to allow Pogba and Fernandes to play together in a midfield 3.
(3) new left-footed, left-back to compete for Shaw's position.

If we don't get Sancho this summer I'd be happy to see United play 4-3-3 with Greenwood, Martial and Rashford as the front 3. If that's the case, we also play Pogba and Fernandes in midfield. Which means we need a better defensive midfielder than Matic; someone faster, more mobile. I'd prioritise DCM before a new striker.
 
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Art Vandelay said:
Yet he was off form for both club and country and played back into form for both. It seems like a bit of a grasp to put it all at the feet of Martial returning which some people seem to be doing.
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No one is putting it all on the feet of Martial but Martial helps Rashford play from the left flank due to the way Martial does move and he has said that himself so to assume he doesnt help him at all is also a bit absurd.

A team mate is going to help him, Martial isnt exactly Lingard and whilst people might have the opinion that Ighalo is a better goalscorer than Martial, assuming that Ighalo is a technical footballer capable of helping Rashford out on the left wing more than Martial isnt exactly correct either.

Rashford was playing with trash for United before Martial was back from injury and Martial - even if you dont rate him - is a player that will help a player around him because he is a solid technical player.

England were also playing against teams like Kosovo and Bulgaria - teams sometimes getting hammered 7-0.

I think bringing that up to shoot Rashford's team mates for United down is a bit unfair who play in a totally different league and difficulty. (I also personally think Rashford looks trash as a LW for england when playing with a striker like Kane but that's hard to purely blame on Kane or Southgate).
 
Bebestation said:
No one is putting it all on the feet of Martial but Martial helps Rashford play from the left flank due to the way Martial does move and he has said that himself so to assume he doesnt help him at all is also a bit absurd.

A team mate is going to help him, Martial isnt exactly Lingard and whilst people might have the opinion that Ighalo is a better goalscorer than Martial, assuming that Ighalo is a technical footballer capable of helping Rashford out on the left wing more than Martial isnt exactly correct either.

Rashford was playing with trash for United before Martial was back from injury and Martial - even if you dont rate him - is a player that will help a player around him because he is a solid technical player.

England were also playing against teams like Kosovo and Bulgaria - teams sometimes getting hammered 7-0.

I think bringing that up to shoot Rashford's team mates for United down is a bit unfair who play in a totally different league and difficulty. (I also personally think Rashford looks trash as a LW for england when playing with a striker like Kane but that's hard to purely blame on Kane or Southgate).
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You said on this very page that Rashford literally craps his pants without Martial as a support striker...

Regardless I'm not getting into this with you again because I don't want to be reading another 7 paragraphs about football that's happened in your imagination.
 
Art Vandelay said:
You said on this very page that Rashford literally craps his pants without Martial as a support striker...

Regardless I'm not getting into this with you again because I don't want to be reading another 7 paragraphs about football that's happened in your imagination.
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And Rashford was great for England vs Kosovo and Bulgaria :lol: I really like talking to you about Martial because you dont rate him and try to come out as some fair opinion on it who has a balanced view on it.

Your opinion on Rashford before his form says all. Let me not post it here again. It's a bit shameful.
 
Bebestation said:
And Rashford was great for England vs Kosovo and Bulgaria :lol: I really like talking to you about Martial because you dont rate him and try to come out as some fair opinion on it who has a balanced view on it.

Your opinion on Rashford before his form says all. Let me not post it here again. It's a bit shameful.
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I would ask you to back that up, but I can see where this is going and I can't be arsed dealing with another one of your bizarre and irrational breakdowns. You make definitive statements then go apeshit ranting like you're coked up to the eyeballs about something else entirely when you get questioned on it. I'm putting you on ignore, I'm tired of dealing with it and talking to you isn't worth the effort. You're all over the place and imagining things as per usual.
 
I can't ignore Ole selling Lukaku at the first opportunity because he didn't believe his skillset was what he wanted at CF. At the January window, Ole really wanted center forward Haaland and then praised Ighalo's center forward play after his signing at the end of the transfer window. Imo, it just appears that Ole likes Martial, and probably Greenwood as well, better as wide players in his scheme and will try to recruit CFs that have Haaland and Ighalo's physical abilities and skill set. Ole's at the wheel.
 
yo@Kirk said:
I can't ignore Ole selling Lukaku at the first opportunity because he didn't believe his skillset was what he wanted at CF. At the January window, Ole really wanted center forward Haaland and then praised Ighalo's center forward play after his signing at the end of the transfer window. Imo, it just appears that Ole likes Martial, and probably Greenwood as well, better as wide players in his scheme and will try to recruit CFs that have Haaland and Ighalo's physical abilities and skill set. Ole's at the wheel.
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I don't think he's shown any intent to play Martial wide. He gave him the #9 shirt and backed him to play there and put Rashford wide. I don't think praising Ighalo means that his profile of striker, he's praised Martial many times too.
 
I think we will be back in for Haaland next year even if Martial thrives. It just seems like an obvious signing especially if we are still on the up next year. I know it lacks imagination but it’s obvious we are big admirers and he’s the one we will go for next. I like Martial but he needs more competition. I agree with the posters above saying he isn’t as aggressive as our main forwards usually were. He’s still young and will more than likely improve his numbers but He’s always going to have a languid style which will divide fans.
 
He's done enough to be our starting #9, however that doesn't mean that there can't be competition for that starting spot. Personally, I think we need another striker. Greenwood is a good finisher but or game struggles with him at the #9 (he is young and will get better). I would also like to see Martial make more runs off the ball. He checks in too much and wants ball to feet. He doesn't see the space behind defenders and that is a big part of his game he could improve on. If he can add "tap ins" to his resume he will become world class...
 
Truthfully, no and I say that as a big fan of his. I would much rather have a consistent goal scorer leading the line for us than Martial but we have more pressing concerns than him right now.
 
He's done well this season, considering he missed about a month or so, and has been without Rashford. But with the emergence of Bruno, he and the team had improved significantly. He's earned the right to make the center forward position his, but the club will consider all options if they are available. He's a great choice for the club and hopefully he continues to improve and become more consistent at a high level.

He's a long term option, as in the next 3 years for sure. Whether it's Ighalo or someone else of that dynamic, he'll have competition and United will have cover. If he's not playing well, which doesn't mean he has to score every match, then he can come off the bench.

Consistent center forward goals scorers are hard to come by these days and there are even fewer players who don't have to rely on service to get said goals. With teams going with one center forward against two center backs or three center backs, as is the norm, your center forward has to contribute much more in build up, creating space for the team, and having the ability to make decisive plays within the attacking third.

His contract goes through 2024, so he'll be here for a good while longer and hope he can continue playing well.
 
He's got a decent touch, decent pace, good dribbling (though overrated after his debut goal), and world class finishing. But in every other aspect, he's either average or below average for a Premier League footballer.

Martial's problem is that he doesn't have a natural position because he doesn't have any of the attacking instincts you'd want from a top player. But if you can find him in space in the box, he'll score. So you have to decide if that's enough of a contribution to warrant a place in the XI every week.

I don't think he's currently good enough to be first choice for a title challenging side, though he has got enough weapons to give a decent account of himself whenever he's on the pitch. His role is definitely an area for improvement in the long term. But a new striker can probably wait a season, especially if we're only aiming at top 4 for now.
 
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SadlerMUFC said:
He's done enough to be our starting #9, however that doesn't mean that there can't be competition for that starting spot. Personally, I think we need another striker. Greenwood is a good finisher but or game struggles with him at the #9 (he is young and will get better). I would also like to see Martial make more runs off the ball. He checks in too much and wants ball to feet. He doesn't see the space behind defenders and that is a big part of his game he could improve on. If he can add "tap ins" to his resume he will become world class...
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I agree, he has done enough this season to show there is more to come from him. People forget this is the first real season a manager has shown faith in him and given him the No. 9. Sometimes fans can have a go at the striker more than they should, he had basic service for alot of the season and I believe he will get better with a fully fit Rashford, Pogba and Bruno.

If we sign a striker for £60m then we will be rotating between Martial and a new one leaving Greenwood 3rd choice and fill in here and there. At least this way we can deputise Rashy, or Greenwood in the middle giving him the chance to develop.
 
Give Martial another season, develop Greenwood and monitor Haaland for potential acquisition season after next. It wouldn't surprise me at all of Greenwood and Haaland leave Martial in the dust.
 
No in fact he hasn't done enough to deserve to be kept by us in any capacity .

We need a proper centre forward if we want to challenge for top honours
 
Art Vandelay said:
Yet he was off form for both club and country and played back into form for both. It seems like a bit of a grasp to put it all at the feet of Martial returning which some people seem to be doing.
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I'm not putting it ALL at the feet of Martial. I'm suggesting that his game improves when he plays with Martial. Rashford himself has said as much.
 
I want him to succeed as the main long term #9 but won't hope to much.

He has the abilities and in the many games he play like a proper CF, it's so good to watch watching him leading our attacks with strong desire and bringing everyone else into play.

Martial is a tricky player to manage -- it's all about his consistency and willingness.
Encouraging signs so far to be fair.
 
lsd said:
No in fact he hasn't done enough to deserve to be kept by us in any capacity .

We need a proper centre forward if we want to challenge for top honours
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I don't know what you expect from a CF but Martial has done reasonably well this season given the players he has playing with him this season.

We saw in the last few weeks before the seasons stopped he looked much better with Bruno.

He has shows this season he is learning the role.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
I dont think he is anywhere near good enough to be a main striker for one the best teams in the world. But if we are going to be premiership mid table team finishing 5th of 4th at best then yes he is.
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The thing is getting a better striker than Martial right now means Kane, Lewandowski, Aguero etc. Its not like we're going to get any of those.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
The thing is getting a better striker than Martial right now means Kane, Lewandowski, Aguero etc. Its not like we're going to get any of those.
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No it just means getting a proper centre forward as Martial is not and never will be a centre forward
 
Assuming we'll have a productive window, if he'll catch same understanding with Sancho just like he did with Rashford then he'll naturally score and assist more and be more involved in the game... but if we'll get rid of him someday, he can be just another Van Gaal's player who didn't fully make it. Nothing that much of surprise if you'll look at it this way.

Having a player who can dispose him of a place in first 11 was always a great idea and sign this team wants something more than EL. Just get a great player for his position and watch him crumble or finally get motivated to keep the place for many years.

Ighalo showing some motivation already sends a proper signal, that perhaps we can do just fine without Tony's moods, at least for a few games if needed.
 
For me he has earned the right to be given the chance to be our #9. What I mean is it should be his job to lose.

If the season continues him and Rashford will both hit 20+ for the season. Considering how poor our attack was for large parts of the season with no creativity behind them, that’s pretty remarkable. I can’t even remember the last time we had 2 players hit 20 goals in a season? Edit: Just looked it up 2010-2011 season; Berbatov (21) and Hernandez (20).
 
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Van Piorsing said:
Assuming we'll have a productive window, if he'll catch same understanding with Sancho just like he did with Rashford then he'll naturally score and assist more and be more involved in the game... but if we'll get rid of him someday, he can be just another Van Gaal's player who didn't fully make it. Nothing that much of surprise if you'll look at it this way.

Having a player who can dispose him of a place in first 11 was always a great idea and sign this team wants something more than EL. Just get a great player for his position and watch him crumble or finally get motivated to keep the place for many years.

Ighalo showing some motivation already sends a proper signal, that perhaps we can do just fine without Tony's moods, at least for a few games if needed.
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Rather look at it as a Giggs's recommendation - Whilst I'm a fan of Martial - using Giggs as some sort of scout we listen by is bullshit.

I dont know why we ask him about a player in the first place, never mind spend nearly 100ml on his recommendations and his approvals.
 
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