You don't just give someone a position. However he's done enough to make spending £80m+ or so on another striker a foolish decision.
Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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To put it simply. With Martial as our main striker I don't think we will be in a position to win a league or CL. He is not consistent enough. For every goal scored there are to much opportunities he missed, runs he didn't take, dribbles he got dispossessed. Good but not good enough. Not elite and don't think he will get there due to his mentality. If you had a chance to swap him for Aguero or Kane would you do it?
He’d have to improve his consistency to be considered a top striker, I agree. I do object to calling him a luxury player though, it just seems a weird way to describe a player that regularly scores important, match winning goals for us.
I also find the narrative around him on this forum pretty weird, he always seems to be one quiet game away from being not good enough, he was in tremendous form before football was stopped but read about him on this forum and you’d think he’s being carried by the rest of the team. Some even blame him for Daniel James’ poor stats.
He’s not irreplaceable but he’s one of the least of our problems I’d say.
Very accurate.
I think Ole has done well to improve him. I looked at his goal stats since he came in.
During LVG's time he scored 17 goals as 19 yo. Since Jose took over his numbers dropped to 19 goals during Mourinho's first two seasons. And now he's picking up the pace again.
I'm putting my money on him. As a lot other posters mentioned that if we bring Sancho and have a balanced front three, Mason breathing in his neck for the starting spot, Martial could score 20 goals in the league.
No - he just doesn't get enough goals for us.
It all depends on who is around him. Is he going to be our next Ronaldo, Rooney, Van Persie, Van Nistelrooy, Cantona level player? No. But he can certainly be the supporting act to a player like that.
The bigger question is who is that star? Rashford might get there but even if he does, we still need to bring somebody in on the right. If that happens I'm confident Martial is good enough to fit into the lineup without a problem. He won't ever be the player we can turn to though and we DO need at least one of those in our forward line.
The bigger question is who is that star? Rashford might get there but even if he does, we still need to bring somebody in on the right. If that happens I'm confident Martial is good enough to fit into the lineup without a problem. He won't ever be the player we can turn to though and we DO need at least one of those in our forward line.
Hasnt he got something like 16 goals and 4/5 assists. With Pogba injured all season and Rashford meaning he has had to lead the line being supplied by Lingard, James, Fred. Mctominay etc. Thats not bad at all. He probably would have hit 20 goals if we completed the season. Next season if we have Pogba/Fernandes and maybe Sancho and he stays fit then 20 plus goals and getting to 10 assists and I dont know what else end product wise you could ask for.
Yes he still can improve certain parts of his game. But you can say that about every player - well apart from the Messie/Ronaldos of this world. Hes had an excellent season and pulled us out of the sht when Rashford was injured. If he was playing for any other team they would love him and I can guarantee if he was up for sale every top team would be after him.
Yes he still can improve certain parts of his game. But you can say that about every player - well apart from the Messie/Ronaldos of this world. Hes had an excellent season and pulled us out of the sht when Rashford was injured. If he was playing for any other team they would love him and I can guarantee if he was up for sale every top team would be after him.
The amount of silly people here... These are the ones who trashed Rashford.
He just started playing no.9 after a long while and he's still put in decent stats. Also playing with shit ball distributors behind him so it's early to judge whether he's a long term solution. At the very least he deserves another season. Let's not forget how we couldn't score when he was injured and started scoring when he came back. Rashford couldn't do anything when all the goals had to come from him but Martial is still performing without Rashford. He's one less headache we have to worry about and that's good cause we can focus on other positions
This is what I’d like to see. Unless a striker of the Kane persuasion becomes available at a remotely affordable price then I’d prioritise other positions (wings, midfield, left back) ahead of a striker. Martial scores a fair few already, and that’s without Pogba and Bruno for the vast majority of the season, in addition to a long term injury to Rashford. Imagine we bring in a proper winger, too?
I also think Greenwood is going to be the absolute tits.
This. Agree 100%.
A million percent yes. His record vs the top teams speaks for itself, yet he is an unselfish player who is the glue that knits our attack together.
I have zero doubt that Martial will be regarded as one of the best forwards in the world in a few years & we're lucky to have him.
I have zero doubt that Martial will be regarded as one of the best forwards in the world in a few years & we're lucky to have him.
I think people rightly pointed out that Rashford is a terrible CF, something which was confirmed beyond any doubt earlier this season.
Getting back on topic, it seems clear to me that both Rashford and Martial are better on the left than they are as CFs. You might argue from a goals/assists perspective, Rashford is slightly better as an AML than Martial
However, it also seems clear to me that Martial is a much better CF than Rashford. Therefore, for now, it makes sense to play Rashford AML and Martial as the CF.
Addressing the question in the OP - no I don't think Martial has 'done enough' to be backed as our 'long term' CF. I think at best he has proven that he MIGHT be the answer (as opposed to Rashford who has conclusively ruled himself out)
This. It's only his second half season at nr. 9 and already showed a lot of improvement over previous seasons. Hard to find a more talented footballer then him tbh. Full on Martial FC here.
Definitely! He has done very well this season given he hasn’t had any creative support behind him. Once Bruno came in they have both gotten along very well and we’ve seen how consistent martial can be when he has the support. If we had Bruno since August I’m sure martial would be on 25 goals now pushing 30plus with the games remaining. We have a gem on our hands but only a few of us can see it and that’s okay. Martial will always be the type to create divide due to his style in England. I feel if he was in Spain he wouldn’t have this much criticism.
I also think anyone can be upgraded on in this team. Pogba, Bruno, de gea and rashford can all be replaced if something better comes along. That’s the beauty of building a team. If we dont win the league or champions league we will always keep analyzing each player’s strengths and weaknesses and how important they are to the balance of the team.
I also think anyone can be upgraded on in this team. Pogba, Bruno, de gea and rashford can all be replaced if something better comes along. That’s the beauty of building a team. If we dont win the league or champions league we will always keep analyzing each player’s strengths and weaknesses and how important they are to the balance of the team.
This is Martial's first real season where he is the No. 9 and has the confidence of the manager. Jose was never convinced with him because Jose liked a target man.
This season he has been really good, given the chance.
It should also be noted he compliments Rashford really well, in one of Rashfords interview he mentioned he liked playing with Martial because he likes to drift wide left giving Rashford the opportunity to make runs in the No. 9 role too. Martial works for United because he gives freedom to the front 3.
Finally, we have seen a chemistry develop with Martial and Bruno, the more they play they will develop this further.
This season he has been really good, given the chance.
It should also be noted he compliments Rashford really well, in one of Rashfords interview he mentioned he liked playing with Martial because he likes to drift wide left giving Rashford the opportunity to make runs in the No. 9 role too. Martial works for United because he gives freedom to the front 3.
Finally, we have seen a chemistry develop with Martial and Bruno, the more they play they will develop this further.
Martial is far more complete of a player than Chicarito ever was. Comparing them is not even viable. Chicartito could only play as a poacher while martial can play as a number 9, false 9, inside forward. He will always be useful across the board even if he somehow manages to fail as our leading striker which I highly doubt in my opinion.
He's still got improving to do but he's extremely talented. Just needs to keep consistent and find that killer hunger to score goals.
His big game record is really good, and the ability to score a goal on his own is very important.
A few more "striker" goals like the header away at Chelsea and he will be the real deal IMO. No coincidence that both he and Rashford have looked better with James/Greenwood giving them balance on the right
His big game record is really good, and the ability to score a goal on his own is very important.
A few more "striker" goals like the header away at Chelsea and he will be the real deal IMO. No coincidence that both he and Rashford have looked better with James/Greenwood giving them balance on the right
I’m very curious who these 8/9 teams with at least a striker you would take over him are? Care to list them? In the meantime I would only take Aguero, Aubameyang and Kane over martial. I’d make a case for Jiminez but he is a different option to what martial offers. Those 3 are the only strikers I feel are clearly better than Martial. Aguero and Aubayeng are ageing so it’s really only Kane that would be viable.
Just thought I would also throw in I wouldn’t take Vardy over martial.
There most certainly are not 8/9 teams with a better striker
Agreed. I'm just quoting Chicharito just to state that goalscoring alone doesn't make a good striker. Despite Martial is much more complete than Chicharito, he still lacks certain elements to improve his centre forward play and become a leading forward. He'll have all the time he needs to improve, but if he fails to fulfill his potential, we may need to reconsider our options by then.
He is not and never will be a number 9. That is not his natural game.
If I had to summarise my view of him, I would say adequate at best.
If I had to summarise my view of him, I would say adequate at best.
Fair enough.
But trashing him and calling him "not smart" is utter bollocks and super lazy analysis (if these stupid posts can be called an "analysis").
No. Not enough of a problem that we're desperate, but if another decent number 9 came along I don't think Marital could complain about being benched. Martial is becoming a moments player. He has a couple of good moments per game that can get him a goal or an assist, so he still contributes something, but he doesn't dictate or influence games the way we need a striker to. The best strikers go out and there and trouble defenders non-stop all game. Martial, even when he sores, is usually quiet for most of the actual match and he can often completely missing for 30 or 40 minutes at a time. That's not the required level.
That's exactly what the best players do.. they impact games when they need to. When you have the likes of James, Lingard and Pereira playing in behind you, it is hard to influence games for large parts.
When we saw him with Rashford, Bruno, he seemed alot more influential.
I'll quote you on that
I'm a fan of Martial when he's in form but IMO there is just as much chance of him spending the majority of his career being talked about as a 'player with huge potential' then all of a sudden he will be 31 and we will have a thread called 'Why didn't Martial reach his full potential.'
Yeah but Martial isn't impacting games when we need him to, that's my whole point. The best players impact games by offering something more than just goals. Unless you have a genuine goal a game striker on your hands, a striker has to contribute at least as much to your overall play as to your goal tally. Martial simply doesn't.
I just checked his age, and he's 24 already. For a striker, and one with speed as a key part of his game, I'd expect him to be at his peak at around 26. So there's still time to improve, yes, but his trajectory is simply not that of a player heading for world class status.
You will hardly get a game a goal striker in the PL.
If you compare Martial to the teams around us, he is doing ok. I think he has showed we can give him another season as our No.9. Replacing him will be pointless unless we get a World class CF. We would rather focus on bringing in a RW and CM to compliment him.
He works well with Rashford, and forming partnerships with Bruno.
I do see where you are coming from, but I would be willing to give him benefit of one full season.
As I said at the outset, we're not desperate to replace him. However I think the one more season thing is a bit unrealistic, since his limitations are the same ones he's had since he arrived. It was fine for a teenager in his first full season to be in and out of games, but its continued with different managers and in different positions over 5 seasons now. I dont see any major difference in his tendency to disappear in games up front compared to when he was primarily on the wing. And that's because I dont think its a technical or positional problem, its a question of application and attitude.
There is a difference actually. It makes a big difference in application and attitude when a manager fully backs you to one who doesnt want you there.
LVG was fine, he did have good stats under him but then Jose never wanted Martial, didnt play him enough was in and out the team.
Hes got 11 goals and 4 PL assists this season having missed a chunk of games. If you think he needs to be replaced with someone, who would it be in your opinion and willing to come to United?
The likes of Haland would not be attainable this summer.
Martial has done more than enough to deserve a place in the squad next season, but for me he hasn't done enough to deserve being one of the first names on the squad sheet on a regular basis. At least not yet.
Greenwood has a higher ceiling than Martial IMHO and could surpass him as early as next season. And it's the emergence of Greenwood that made missing out on Haaland bearable as Martial doesn't perform consistently enough for me and, worse, sulks far too much during games. There's a difference between the languid style of a striker like Berbatov and sulking like Martial and it just pisses me off to see Martial drift out of a match for 15-20 minutes because he didn't get a pass that should have been made. But when Martial is up for it, he's fantastic.
Greenwood has a higher ceiling than Martial IMHO and could surpass him as early as next season. And it's the emergence of Greenwood that made missing out on Haaland bearable as Martial doesn't perform consistently enough for me and, worse, sulks far too much during games. There's a difference between the languid style of a striker like Berbatov and sulking like Martial and it just pisses me off to see Martial drift out of a match for 15-20 minutes because he didn't get a pass that should have been made. But when Martial is up for it, he's fantastic.
I wouldn't sell him. I think we need to challenge him. We know his potential BUT...let's also not forget how poor we've been in general since he's been here. When you put all the pieces together, Martial might be more encouraged to play the final third as opposed to dropping to far deep or going missing etc. You could argue we could see him stepping up as we step up as a team and challenge once again but It's hard to find the perfect combination. Martial don't take set pieces not all the pens. Greenwood can still feature plenty. As can others. We've still yet to put out arguably out best 11. I don't know the targets we set him, but even something like this situation now could trigger something in someone. We want more goals from him but I think if we can get everyone back, the chances will be there. I actually think having Greenwood around helps Martial and vise versa.
No not at the moment
For most managers and squad I dont think he can play the role of #9 to a high enough level and would work better to adjust his game to a LF/LW
For most managers and squad I dont think he can play the role of #9 to a high enough level and would work better to adjust his game to a LF/LW
Martial is just a placeholder for Greenwood.
He's done enough to make a CF signing low priority.
What he and Rashford have done this season with no creative support around them is brilliant. I want to see both alongside Bruno, Pogba, and a new right forward before saying he needs to be replaced/upgraded on.
What he and Rashford have done this season with no creative support around them is brilliant. I want to see both alongside Bruno, Pogba, and a new right forward before saying he needs to be replaced/upgraded on.
I think he's done enough to get another season as the starting #9 at least, and that's enough for now.
It's very hard being the only player on the pitch likely to score a goal, which Martial was for quite a while. But based on the time he played with at least one other goalscorer, I'd say he's done well enough to be the starter next season. We'll see from there.
Are they or are you making sweeping generalizations based on people not rating a player as highly as you do?
I'd say he's certainly done enough to be backed for the next few seasons. He's scored 11 goals in 22 starts in the Premier League. After returning from injury in December, he scored 8 goals in 14 starts. This is while Pogba, our most creative player, was out injured.
Without context, his record this season has been solid. When you consider the players who were missing, it looks even better. Along with the almost instantaneous relationship he's built with Bruno and the lack of top strikers on the market, I can't see a replacement taking his spot in near future.
Martial loses the ball a bit too often and could be more clinical, but he's certainly come into his own as a striker this season.
Without context, his record this season has been solid. When you consider the players who were missing, it looks even better. Along with the almost instantaneous relationship he's built with Bruno and the lack of top strikers on the market, I can't see a replacement taking his spot in near future.
Martial loses the ball a bit too often and could be more clinical, but he's certainly come into his own as a striker this season.
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