Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

No.
I am not convinced he can do things consistently. He has a good run, he gets injured, he needs time to find form, he gets into a good run, he gets injured.

That is leaving alone that he could be so frustrating sometimes with things he does on the pitch
 
Nearly 20 goals already as false 9 without Pogba and Bruno assisting him. Golden boot incoming next season :drool:
 
I don't like that long term phrase regarding players. I rate players are they good enough for current and next season.
Martial is our best striker and i rate him a lot as a player and as no9. He is my favourite player so for now i am delighted with our attack. With him as first choice, Greenwood as backup and maybe Ighalo as 3rd striker we are covered for next season. Especially because i don't see many available no9s for who i can tell that they are clearly better than Martial.

But if next season he doesn't raise his game and becomes goal maschine then i would consider buying another world class striker for 2021/2022 season. Same goes for every player.
 
In my opinion, Martial has done enough to be guarantee his spot for next season. And if you combined both of his talent and what he has done this season, we should back him this season & next season for long term future or consideration.

What it means to back him as our long term is that we shouldn't spend big money on striker who aren't worth to pay the fees & wages just because the players are better than Martial on current form. And I'm talking about Aubameyang, Cavani, Jimenez and etc. Some of those players are already 30 and Jimenez isn't much different to Martial. People are making them looks like RVP, where they're worth the money for short term to win us the league at that time and capable to carry the whole attack alone, which clearly players like Aubameyang, Cavani, Jimenez and etc aren't. I just don't like this crazy idea where we need to sign a 30 years old player because we don't want to develop Martial. Short term type of signing that cost lot of money (fees & wages) but no guarantee of winning the league over developing the talent that we have right now is silly.

The only players who are considered as worth in consideration to replace Martial is Kane & Mbappe because one is already world class and in good age while the other one is world class with potential of ballon dor winner, however that's only if they're available for around 100m and clearly they aren't which should be out of list right now.

Another option is Timo Werner due to his performance this season.
 
Yagami said:
He's done enough to make a CF signing low priority.

What he and Rashford have done this season with no creative support around them is brilliant. I want to see both alongside Bruno, Pogba, and a new right forward before saying he needs to be replaced/upgraded on.
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Itching to see it in action. First time I’ve been excited by our team in a while.
 
Greenwood is INSANE for an 18 year old.

think of the 20+ year old strikers that can't score more than 4-5 goals in the Premier League, and here's Greenwood coming in bagging that number with subs only most of the time.

But Martial's obviously better, and if we get another striker of some sort to push our front 3 we're going to be so stacked.
 
Yes. We seriously do not need three top players for one position, so unless we’re selling Martial or Greenwood, there’s other spots in the team that need filling. Players like Igahlo are fine for cover.

Given the state of the finances, market and talent level of Greenwood, we’d be mental to splash out on any striker.
 
Greenwood is not ready yet to take CF position. He's not comfortable with the physicality of Men's game then move deeper or wider to find space.
What makes Martial inconsistent was his off the ball movement, but recently his run without the ball is geting better and better. Ighalo might gave him a private lesson to do that.

His talent is still a mystery box due to Jose's bad management at our youngster, so I refuse to give up with him as no. 9 just because of his age and Greenwood. Give him another 2 years then we can talk his future, or we sign a striker like Haaland/Kane to replace him.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
I don't like that long term phrase regarding players. I rate players are they good enough for current and next season.
Martial is our best striker and i rate him a lot as a player and as no9. He is my favourite player so for now i am delighted with our attack. With him as first choice, Greenwood as backup and maybe Ighalo as 3rd striker we are covered for next season. Especially because i don't see many available no9s for who i can tell that they are clearly better than Martial.

But if next season he doesn't raise his game and becomes goal maschine then i would consider buying another world class striker for 2021/2022 season. Same goes for every player.
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Yep, this is a good post. For me, he's definitely earned the right to start next season as our first-choice #9, and Greenwood and (hopefully) Ighalo would represent more than enough back-up. There's not much point thinking further ahead than that.
 
We wait for five years for him to become class. I dont know if he ever will reach that level. Next season is last for him to convince me, im losing my patience over him.
 
I don't think Ole would have went so hard to get Haaland if he thought Martial was well suited for CF in his scheme. When Ighalo showed off in EL and FA cup play, there was a lot of talk about how well suited his game is for CF in Ole's scheme. For these reasons, I think Greenwood is better suited for RW than CF for Ole. For 25m, Marial's fellow Frenchman, Odsonne Edouard at Celtic, would be a closer match for CF in Ole's scheme, imho.
 
He deserves his spot and to show what he can do over a full season, however right now the answer is no. I don't think anyone really deserves to be the long-term nailed-on starter for a club looking to compete in the near future. One thing that's for sure is that Martial needs competition and the club needs some relief at the forward position because Rashford struggled without Martial and it took a while for the latter to adjust to Rashford being gone, Bruno helped a lot with that.

It's just too thin up front and I'd like to see Martial working with another forward from time to time, him and a Timo Werner would be really interesting since it seems as if he could be on the move soon.
 
He was one goal off equaling his best goal scoring season in 20 less games, coming off a couple of injuries and more often than not played with subpar teammates. His G+A/G ratio stands at 2/3. He scored against the big teams, he scored against the small team (less often than we’d like, admittedly).

I think he’s earned his shot to be given the chance to build on this season, playing alongside Rashford, Bruno and (maybe) Pogba. If he develops a goal hungry streak and starts banging in a couple of goals against the minnows regularly , coupled with his current big game record, we’ll have one of the best forward in the game; if he only maintain his current level of production, we bring in competition to spur him on or displace him, depends on his response. If he regresses, then he has to accept a pay cut and the bench, or we part ways.

We shouldn’t forget that Greenwood will be much more involved next season. Ole has been using him very conservatively to keep him grounded, but he should be starting cup games and getting more subs in the league + some easier fixtures next season, so that’s already a bit of reinforcement + competition for Martial. We need a good winger and a midfielder or two, then the CF position would be well covered between Martial, Greenwood, Ighalo and (if needed) Rashford.
 
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11 goals and 3 assists in 22 apps in the Premier League. I think that's a decent return. Probably would have finshed (and can still do so) with 15-20.

Think when you take into consideration the service he's had and the fact that he was injured, that's not too bad at all.

Next season, with the possibility of Fernandes, Rashford, Sancho and Pogba all potentially lining up behind Martial, you'd imagine we'd create a lot more chances.

I'd be willing to give him another season and think Ole will too.
 
yo@Kirk said:
I don't think Ole would have went so hard to get Haaland if he thought Martial was well suited for CF in his scheme. When Ighalo showed off in EL and FA cup play, there was a lot of talk about how well suited his game is for CF in Ole's scheme. For these reasons, I think Greenwood is better suited for RW than CF for Ole. For 25m, Marial's fellow Frenchman, Odsonne Edouard at Celtic, would be a closer match for CF in Ole's scheme, imho.
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Ole wanting Haaland does not mean that Ole does not rate Martial as a nr. 9, rather that he wants competition for every position. Players feeling too comfortable about their place in the team is never a good thing.
 
He doesnt show or do enough for me. Hes been here 5 years and should really have kicked on by now, but looks no better than his first season. When you think of the fantastic strikers we have had he isnt fit to lace any of their boots.
 
I think Ole will see how he goes another season with greenwood pushing him, depending on how that goes will depend on whether we go in for a striker next summer
 
I love Martial, but for all of his ability, I don't think he strikes nearly enough fear into the opposition. You think of strikers like Aguero, Rooney, Torres at their peak and they get the ball in or around the box and defenders are shitting it. I don't get that feeling with Martial, he needs to add more aggression to his game because he has all the talent.
 
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The short answer is yes, if "long term" means not going out now and looking for a replacement. Whether that means long term in the way of, say, Rooney's tenure is an unknown at this time.

I've always been worried about relying on him as our main number 9. His speed and especially his dazzling technical ability with the ball are undeniable, and that's what makes me hope that he can be our settled main striker. The bit that worries me is his inconsistency, which seems to be more moodiness than drop-off in form, something I think has been manifest since he first arrived under Louis, so can't just be attributed to Mourinho - at the time, I put it down to immaturity, but he's not a 19-year old now. In that respect he reminds me of Nani, who would sometimes be outstanding and at other times seemed bored (although with Nani I suspect it depended on who we were playing).

Of course, the answer is that kind of player needs to be well-managed, something SAF did supremely well with Nani and others. Martial has been hampered (and he's not the only player) by Mourinho's insidious "do-I-trust-you-or-not" management practices. Ole's much fresher and straightforward style, which derives a lot from SAF, has, in my view, already helped Martial to improve, as has the addition of better players, and especially Bruno.

The surprise factor has been Odion Ighalo - very few people would have predicted his signing or impact, regardless of why it came about. If it's possible to keep him (on sensible terms for all parties) at least for a season or two, and with Greenwood as a highly promising prospect, we will have a good spread of options without overusing Rashford again as we have done.

Assuming we continue to progress and Martial wants to stay, we can judge after probably two seasons whether he's is good enough to support the ambition to achieve success domestically and in Europe or whether we need to look elswehere.
 
sokol11 said:
If you had a chance to swap him for Aguero or Kane would you do it?
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Nope, Aguero is old and Kane is injured half the time these days. Martial is about to enter his prime, and we can't miss that for players who are past that point in their careers.
 
It's a difficult one. I don't particularly like him as a player and he compares poorly with many of the strikers we've had at this club over the years. That being said, when I try to come up with obvious replacements, I'm forced to conclude that upgrading significantly on Martial, is not a simple matter. It's slim pickings in the market at the moment, if you're shopping for a #9.
 
Of course he is. We just need to sort out the rest of the team so he gets more consistent supply. He needs to work on his general fitness and his positioning when teammates are in wide areas.
 
He’s done OK but if you think of all the first choice strikers we’ve had over the last 30 years he’s near the bottom of the list, even below some of the back ups.
 
abdo99 said:
Nearly 20 goals already as false 9 without Pogba and Bruno assisting him. Golden boot incoming next season :drool:
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The issue with Martial is that those guys might get more assists with a guy who is better at getting in behind and in the air and at the scrappy stuff. Martial's style seems like it might be less about who his teammates are and more about having space to attack, but we'll see. He might also get the ball on his feet with a chance to run at centre backs more and we know he is very good at that. Not like 9s who are good at dribbling haven't excelled on good teams before, and as always with a 24 year old and Ole we can hope he'll figure out how to get more scrappy poacher and target man goals.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
He’s done OK but if you think of all the first choice strikers we’ve had over the last 30 years he’s near the bottom of the list, even below some of the back ups.
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To be fair there is not much high quality striker these days, even Firmino (only has 1 goal at Anfield) is one of the best in europe right now.

It would be hard to find a great striker like we had over the last 30 years. Suarez, Cavani, Lewandowski, and Aguero are pretty old but still better than any first choice striker who just enter their prime now.
 
abdo99 said:
Nearly 20 goals already as false 9 without Pogba and Bruno assisting him. Golden boot incoming next season :drool:
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The brief spell just before Rashford got injured was when to me - Martial was playing his real football.

He was looking phenomenal, looking like the glue to Rashford and Greenwood/James - players couldn't get the ball off of him.

He was playing football in a different way to the style that makes fans compare him to RVN or Haaland or even Greenwood as they do in this thread.

Rashford became injured and he had to turn back in to the striker that 'leads the line' all by himself (which he never was) whilst he was always one who did the opposite, drop back in to spaces and interlink with the players who made runs off of him.

I personally think Martial just needs that full season with 2 clinical strikers off of him like Rashford on the left and Greenwood on the right. Firmino wasn't impressive to anyone until the right players came on the sides of him permanently and just like this thread the fans were complaining about his ability as a striker because they couldn't see him as a false 9 until the system is a) set up b) is consistent and successful.

Rashford- Martial -Greenwood

Is balanced with goalscores

I hope Sancho comes here and will do better than James did at RW - whilst I think he will be better on the left interlinking with Martial and on the right sometimes he may struggle to cut in as consistently, hopefully he ends up playing like Pedro did for Pep's Barcelona when he does. If he does end up struggling a bit in his first season (which he might) to be a 'inside forward' of the RW and becomes more of a mix of RW who both crosses and shoots then it may be Martial's last season here because it may not interlink with him the best due to him not being the best poacher of his chances.
 
Number32 said:
To be fair there is not much high quality striker these days, even Firmino (only has 1 goal at Anfield) is one of the best in europe right now.

It would be hard to find a great striker like we had over the last 30 years. Suarez, Cavani, Lewandowski, and Aguero are pretty old but still better than any first choice striker who just enter their prime now.
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That’s true. I think the striker role in the popular types of formation these days is harder than it used to be when strikers operated more as a pair. Now, the striker role seems as much about occupying the defence, holding up the ball, working tirelessly and helping the wide players to score more goals. Maybe the question is whether Martial is good enough in that sort of role, with Firmino being a good benchmark.
 
Infra-red said:
It's a difficult one. I don't particularly like him as a player and he compares poorly with many of the strikers we've had at this club over the years. That being said, when I try to come up with obvious replacements, I'm forced to conclude that upgrading significantly on Martial, is not a simple matter. It's slim pickings in the market at the moment, if you're shopping for a #9.
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It's slim picking if the intend is to go buy an established world class striker. Maybe think outside the box like when we got RVN, Saha, and Solksjaer. Or Liverpool with Torres, Salah, Firminho, or Suarez.
 
I think if we sign Sancho then having a front four of Rashford, Martial, Sancho and Fernandes sees Martial’s numbers improve greatly.

Has he been consistent this season ? No but then outside of Fernandes, Rashford, McTominay and Fred who has been consistent for us ? We’ve been far from consistent pretty much all season until Fernandes arrived so Martial isn’t the only one.

You can see the difference playing with Rashford has on how Martial performs and they really were starting to become a very good partnership so I think Martial has shown enough to at least be given another season as first choice striker, if we can bring Ighalo in or maybe Cavani on a free for a year then that’s enough back with Greenwood also there.
 
Roberto Firmino has scored 1 goal at home all season and he's Liverpool's main number 9. Why? Because they back him up with two exceptional wide forwards.

So of course Martial can work as our main 9. Rashford looks to have that left side nailed now. He was in scary good form prior to his injury. We just obviously need that elusive world class RF. Sancho is clearly the main target but we don't know how the window will go now due to covid.

Greenwood is going to be better than all of them for me too. We really have struck lucky with this kid. He looks like he could be up there contending for balon dor in a few years. That's how highly people rate him.
 
Not a single player in our team has done enough to guarantee long term status at the club. It's Martial's first season as number 9 though, and I'd say he's done enough to be backed as our main striker going into next season.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Roberto Firmino has scored 1 goal at home all season and he's Liverpool's main number 9. Why? Because they back him up with two exceptional wide forwards.

So of course Martial can work as our main 9. Rashford looks to have that left side nailed now. He was in scary good form prior to his injury. We just obviously need that elusive world class RF. Sancho is clearly the main target but we don't know how the window will go now due to covid.

Greenwood is going to be better than all of them for me too. We really have struck lucky with this kid. He looks like he could be up there contending for balon dor in a few years. That's how highly people rate him.
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Only way greenwood surpasses all of them including sancho is if he develops a decent physique. Mind you I said decent because I don’t expect him to develop incredible pace but just enough that he can outrun the average defender.

They should give him whatever they gave Messi.
 
Younger Benzema. Drifts between world class and not so world class.
 
Interesting to see so many bring up Firmino in this discussion. Despite only scoring 1 goal at home this season, he demonstrates a much better center forward play than Martial, which is an essential element in modern days. Rather than just goalscoring, you'll want your strikers to be heavily involved in the link up play, hold off opponents and protect the ball up front, drag opponents out and create spaces for teammates etc.

For me Martial just hasn't done enough in these aspects. I don't think Ole is satisfied either from the way he compliments Ighalo, and suggests he offers something we've been lacking since the start of the season. When other top strikers are in bad form, they can still create chances and spaces for their teammates; but when Martial is having a bad day, it's like we are playing with a man down, and that's one of the reasons why we struggle to break down smaller teams.

Also, if you really want to play the Liverpool way, you'll need great attacking fullbacks to take up the spaces left behind by the wide forwards cutting inside. I don't think there's much debate that Wan-Bissaka, Shaw and Williams aren't capable of posing offensive threats like Arnold and Robertson do. In fact, I think we're more suited to the City way where wingers take up the wide positions allowing the midfielders to go forward, unleashing the attacking quality of Pogba and Bruno.

Having said that, I don't think it's urgent for us to sign a striker especially with Ighalo as a reliable backup, and Martial is going to keep his spot at least for the next season. He'll have all the time he needs to improve, but we have to reconsider our choices in the long run if little progress is seen.
 
Martial's biggest issue is his lack of involvement. At his best, he's fantastic and his link up play with Rashford shows great promise. His bottom level is extremely low though. On an off day, he just disappears from games.

A front 4 of Bruno, Sancho, Martial and Rashford is extremely exciting. Those 4 with Greenwood, Igalho and Grealish for depth would be a quality attack.
 
I reiterate my previous point about Martial.
When he arrived, he proved to be a very good, very talented, yet inconsistent confidence player at 19.
A few years later, here we are now, has Martial actually made significant improvements to his game, or is he still the very good, very talented, yet inconsistent confidence player.

When I watch him, I don't see anything about him that he's really worked on, other than his physique. But in terms of his game, nothing seems to be improved since then.
 
MattofManchester said:
I reiterate my previous point about Martial.
When he arrived, he proved to be a very good, very talented, yet inconsistent confidence player at 19.
A few years later, here we are now, has Martial actually made significant improvements to his game, or is he still the very good, very talented, yet inconsistent confidence player.

When I watch him, I don't see anything about him that he's really worked on, other than his physique. But in terms of his game, nothing seems to be improved since then.
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His aerial game has notably improved this season, offensively and defensively, his left foot is better, he’s probably a more creative passer than he was too. On the down side, I think his dribbling has deteriorated and he doesn’t seem as fast.
 
Since Bruno joined us, YES, he did well and he will do even better next season, I'm convinced.
If we got another good winger ( hope it's sancho .. ) I'm sure that will see the best version of Martial and it will be more than enough.
Last thing to say, Martial is our player with the coldest blood in front of goal and that's not cheap.
 
He's certainly not done enough to "nail" a spot, but he's got the opportunity to carry on developing into what we want and need there.

The Fergie way would have been to go and bring in a major striker and then let the others compete, but that won't be our way as there's other priorities.
 
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