Has ETH lost the dressing room…?

1988 said:
The Sancho drama perhaps. How we went about with de Gea?
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Everyone bangs on about De Gea, but lets not forget that De Gea sat on a contract offer for most the season and only when he had no offers at the end of the season from anywhere else did he decide he wanted to sign. By that time his form was dipped drastically and was terrible in the FA Cup final.

Don't have any sympathy really.
 
I don't think he has lost the dressing room , the reality is utd always have lacked financial support to support its managers we all know when ETH took over that this club squad needs a massive overhaul which with glazers in charge can be done in Minimum 5 transfer windows , but that seems to be over to in this summer with limited budget . Sir Alex survived with the class on 1992 we had to bring scholesy back from retirement to finish things off , glazers never truly backed any manager in bringing the players the manager wanted , sir alex missed targets like benzema , hazard ,sneijder because glazers were never willing to spend that extra pound which other clubs were ready to do , Moyes missed thiago , cesc, because glazers were not willing to go spend premium , Jose never got his targets , ole never got the players he wanted , all these players that previous managers got were either done by Woodward to sell more shirts or the 4th, 5th choice on manager list , it's only last season, ETH got what he wanted but this summer he did not got what he wanted, which was the amount of , he needed two strikers Harry kane and rasmus , wide player a cm a goalkeeper a centre back like Kim min jae
He only got 1 striker , a goalie , and a loanie 3rd choice midfielder.
No one can steer this club out of trouble with long term in mind unless glazers go .
Man city , Chelsea all build over in past and present by spending. There are exceptions like Liverpool side under klopp, in that case also klopp got limited budget but players which he wanted and it took him 3-4 years as well to make his side .
Arsenal to started spending big and back manager with the targets he wants , not 3rd ,4th choice on list.
Unless glazers are out nothing will change even if they bring pep at this club.
 
No he has not.
Especially the starting players.
Onana
Dalot
Shaw
Varane
Martinez
Bruno
Antony
Rashford
Garnacho
Mount
Amrabat
Hojlund


would go through a wall for him. Maybe Dalot is a question given his shared time with awb.

Casemiro will need to get better.
 
He hasn't lost the players, but they're clearly incapable of carrying out his vision. Whether that's because of injuries, fitness, mental strength whatever - it's not working.

The obvious solution was to get in players that would fit, and we've spent a lot of money. BUT. I will give him this, HIS signings are Antony, Malacia, Martinez, Onana, Mount, Amrabat and maybe Hojland.

Of which, we've only really seen Onana play a load of minutes this season. All of the others have either been completely missing, or missed about half the matches.

I do believe that the system he's trying to utilise requires quite specific skills, and those aren't ones that, for example, Casemiro, Lindelof, Maguire and Rashford seem like they have.

So what is ETH to do? Abandon the vision because of injuries? Be pragmatic, then get kicked for not implementing a strategy?

It's a tough one.
 
cobyahk said:
I don't think he has lost the dressing room , the reality is utd always have lacked financial support to support its managers we all know when ETH took over that this club squad needs a massive overhaul which with glazers in charge can be done in Minimum 5 transfer windows , but that seems to be over to in this summer with limited budget . Sir Alex survived with the class on 1992 we had to bring scholesy back from retirement to finish things off , glazers never truly backed any manager in bringing the players the manager wanted , sir alex missed targets like benzema , hazard ,sneijder because glazers were never willing to spend that extra pound which other clubs were ready to do , Moyes missed thiago , cesc, because glazers were not willing to go spend premium , Jose never got his targets , ole never got the players he wanted , all these players that previous managers got were either done by Woodward to sell more shirts or the 4th, 5th choice on manager list , it's only last season, ETH got what he wanted but this summer he did not got what he wanted, which was the amount of , he needed two strikers Harry kane and rasmus , wide player a cm a goalkeeper a centre back like Kim min jae
He only got 1 striker , a goalie , and a loanie 3rd choice midfielder.
No one can steer this club out of trouble with long term in mind unless glazers go .
Man city , Chelsea all build over in past and present by spending. There are exceptions like Liverpool side under klopp, in that case also klopp got limited budget but players which he wanted and it took him 3-4 years as well to make his side .
Arsenal to started spending big and back manager with the targets he wants , not 3rd ,4th choice on list.
Unless glazers are out nothing will change even if they bring pep at this club.
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I agree with a lot of that but Utd have spent more on recruitment than any other team in the PL over the last decade. A lot of that has been due to overpaying for players and then paying them such whacky salaries that they can’t sell them on at anything like a good price, but that doesn’t diminish the amount spent.
Plenty spent, more spent than anyone else, just spent badly and that’s a different issue entirely.
 
He has lost those that aren’t getting much playing time but that’s par for the course isn’t it?

I quite sure what weasels he knows he needs to root out and already tried too.

It’s the 2-faced players that are the problems…..think there are a couple of shit-stirrers in that dressing room that are causing issues….I’d have a good go at guessing one of the main culprits……
 
Don't think he has lost the dressing room at all. Do think some players are struggling with form (Casemiro, Rashford) and need dropping. Maybe Rashford is affected by the Sancho drama as they seem to be mates but who knows really. But no other than Sancho I don't think so.
 
It's a great little story as journos can just write anything...if United lose then even better, it can be used as almost evidence the manager has "lost the changing room" whatever that means haha.

Blah, blah, fecking blah.
 
Like most I don't think he has lost the dressing room, he might have lost some players who aren't playing. However they aren't playing for a reason and it is not favouritism.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Like most I don't think he has lost the dressing room, he might have lost some players who aren't playing. However they aren't playing for a reason and it is not favouritism.
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Now let’s be pragmatic, I don’t think he’s lost the dressing room either however he could in the next month, I’ll explain ;

1. So far he’s proved that most of the big money players he’s bought he will play regardless of their form!

2. He seems to like some English/British players - Rashford, Evans, Shaw, Mainoo, Mount, Heaton, AWB and despise others - Maguire, McTominay, Sancho ?

3. He’s not scared to replace Casemiero for Amrabat, Lindelof or Evans for Varane who are elder statesmen who might start to cause divisions in the squad.

4. Bruno is a time bomb waiting to happen, he’s playing out of position and poorly and likes to blame everyone bar himself. Mason Mount and Bruno can not play in the same time as they occupy the same spaces, pushing Bruno out wide right just leaves the whole flank vacated as he wonders round the pitch, this will not work.

5. He’s had 17 months and ruthless got rid of D De Gea for what appears a much poorer replacement who might be off in January anyway for Afcon. The players were close to David and did not like the way ETH handled that situation.

Conclusion, ETH is 2 more defeats away from a crisis if you play 28-29 games before Xmas and lose 11 or 12 you getting sacked and he’s lost 6 before the middle of October 24
 
De Gea being a loss is an incredible statement if it is considered true, and I do think that.
 
I think his players that are not being successful on the pitch will prove useful to Ten Hag in the dressing room. They will stand by him and buy him a longer rope for his eventual removal, a few months after his 'sack by' date.
 
This is all on the players and modern culture.

I think many of the UTD players who played under OGS were used to having their own way, there was little or no discipline it just appeared a big mates club, i can just imagine OGS standing next to Mick Phelan trying to give a serious team talk whilst Jess Lingard, Paul Pogba, Sancho et al were standing in same changing room working on a new tik tok dance, and Ronaldo briefing the Portugese speakers... Rangnick was right all along about divisions in the dressing room and the need for a huge culture change and the players turned on him for speaking up. Remember our end of season form under Rangnick the players were shocking.

ETH has come in with an iron fist too and when things go wrong, cracks start to appear and players will again turn on their manager. ETH has made mistakes too and is culpable but he comes across a likeable determined character who knows what is needed to play for man utd.

Players used to the arm round the shoulder nicey nicey approach of OGS dont like ETH 's approach but they will have to get used to it. We need to support the manager and rid the club of these arrogant overpaid brats who feel the need to down tools, sulk and leak stuff to the media. We need a young hungry squad to take us back to the glory days not the 300k a week brigade who are far roo important for their own good.
 
Whenever performances and results get this bad, it's almost always because there's dressing room unrest. We've seen it with Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick when the players turn and it does feel like we're going through one of those seasons. We see it at Chelsea every couple of years where the players can't be arsed with a manager any more and he has to go.

When managers "lose the dressing room", they don't lose every single player. All it takes is a few first team players and the negativity then seeps into the rest of the squad, and then we have this mess on the pitch.

We've had the whole Sancho saga who probably has some allies in the dressing room, we've had leaks in the media about some players being unhappy from Custis and Luckhurst, and combine that with the results and performances then there's almost certainly something going on.

I don't see any way back when things get this bad. To be fair, Ole had a bad start to both his full seasons and looked like it could be the end and he somehow turned it round to get top 4 finishes. But once the dressing room was lost in his final season, it was clear to see it was irretrievable. We just have to hope things aren't as bad on the inside as they look from the outside.
 
Keanes Magic Hat said:
No, I really think its a confidence thing. With a run of results and getting Martinez and Shaw back I think the team will improve.
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I'm not really buying the confidence thing, because we've won enough games this season to kickstart a positive run of results, but we just revert back to a poor result in the next game.

We won 2 out of our first 3 games, it wasn't a disastrous start to the season at all results wise. We picked up our first away win against Burnley and couldn't build from it, we thrashed Palace in the cup and couldn't build off it. Confidence can't be any worse than after the first 2 games last season, or conceding 6 against City, 7 to Liverpool.

We're either just shit, or the dressing room is a mess with negativity the same way it was in the final days of Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick. Or both.
 
I don't put much weight on Alan Brazil's "someone heard from someone that...", or McTominay answering "I didn't hear what he was saying" when asked what he was told by Ten Hag before he entered the pitch and scored two goals (although you may wonder why he didn't bother to ask him to repeat), or Martial being given instructions before his cameo, looking totally uninterested in what Had had to say - Martial kind of always looks like that.

I'm a bit worried about the lack of vocal support from the players, though, in this struggling times. When Ole went through bad spells, the players constantly aired their support in the media. I find it to be strangely silent right now.
 
Dominos said:
Whenever performances and results get this bad, it's almost always because there's dressing room unrest. We've seen it with Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick when the players turn and it does feel like we're going through one of those seasons. We see it at Chelsea every couple of years where the players can't be arsed with a manager any more and he has to go.

When managers "lose the dressing room", they don't lose every single player. All it takes is a few first team players and the negativity then seeps into the rest of the squad, and then we have this mess on the pitch.

We've had the whole Sancho saga who probably has some allies in the dressing room, we've had leaks in the media about some players being unhappy from Custis and Luckhurst, and combine that with the results and performances then there's almost certainly something going on.

I don't see any way back when things get this bad. To be fair, Ole had a bad start to both his full seasons and looked like it could be the end and he somehow turned it round to get top 4 finishes. But once the dressing room was lost in his final season, it was clear to see it was irretrievable. We just have to hope things aren't as bad on the inside as they look from the outside.
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I think it's rather the other way around: Dressing room unrest comes as a result of bad performances. It's hard for players to complain if they are left out of the squad if the first 11 keep on winning. Leaks about problems within the squad always reaches the media in struggling times - not only from United.
 
I actually think it doesnt matter whether he has lost the dressing room or not, if he has, we should let all the players who want to leave to go...even if it means letting them go on cut price deals. Every single player including the big ones like rashford or bruno can be replaced.

If we go with the sack ten hag option then we will have given our selves permanently to these mercenaries. We will never succeed with any manager, no matter how good he is. Players will know (like they already suspect from van gaal to Mourinho to ole to ragnick) that all they have to do is to stick it out and wait for the next manager. Meanwhile they collect their salaries.

In the whole equation of fans, club, players and a coach looking to build his reputation like ETH...the only people who truly want genuine success on the pitch as first priority are firstly the fans and then coach. He wants to succeed here because it sets him up as a top tier coach. These players know they can go elsewhere and win. And alot of them have either already won before or have consistently let us down before. We need players who are disciplined and who absolutely want to be at manutd...everyone else can leave and we should do everything to get them out. If sancho cant apologize, then let him go. Ferguson, arteta, pep etc have shown that a club should never back the players over the manager.

Its not a case of us needing to back the manager, its the only right option here if we ever want to have a chance of winning trophies.
 
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