Has ETH lost the dressing room…?

frostbite said:
Yes.

He disrespected Ronaldo.
He spit on De Gea, embarrassing the whole club that made the offer that was accepted by the player.
He told the press that Sancho is not training well.
He played his favorites Wout and Antony while they did not perform well.
He sold Fred who was always trying hard. This is inconsistent if we assume he is playing Antony because Antony is trying hard.
He replaced De Gea with his guy, who is actually worse.
He told the press that the whole club is not up to standards. But the guys he bought with 400 million are average at best.
Extremely strong odor of nepotism, buying average guys who played for him before.


These are just the few things that we know about, but actually these are much more than what we had with any other manager in just 12 months. I assume there are many more incidents that we know nothing about.
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Ronaldo deserved to be disrespected, he's a complete and utter tosser.
De Gea needed to go because he was overpaid and has been past it by about 5 years.
Sancho's a petulant dick head who was given 3 months off last season to sort his shite out.
Agreed.
What fecking good would keeping Fred have done, is this a joke?
Why didn't you include this point in the other De Gea point?
The club isn't up to standards, plus Ronaldo did that before and you say he was disrespected. So, which one is it? Pick a lane.
That's poor recruitment but it should be up to the club to save him from himself in that regard.

There's fecking plenty of shite to have a go at ten Hag about, the points you made were terrible examples of this.
 
AltiUn said:
Ronaldo deserved to be disrespected, he's a complete and utter tosser.
De Gea needed to go because he was overpaid and has been past it by about 5 years.
Sancho's a petulant dick head who was given 3 months off last season to sort his shite out.
Agreed.
What fecking good would keeping Fred have done, is this a joke?
Why didn't you include this point in the other De Gea point?
The club isn't up to standards, plus Ronaldo did that before and you say he was disrespected. So, which one is it? Pick a lane.
That's poor recruitment but it should be up to the club to save him from himself in that regard.

There's fecking plenty of shite to have a go at ten Hag about, the points you made were terrible examples of this.
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So many excuses. Excuse after excuse.
Its just never him, you even say that when it is him its the clubs fault because they should save him from himself.
Excuse after excuse after excuse.
 
Stack said:
So many excuses. Excuse after excuse.
Its just never him, you even say that when it is him its the clubs fault because they should save him from himself.
Excuse after excuse after excuse.
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Most of those ain't even excuses or are you going to argue Manchester United are well-run club?

Is manager expected to do DoF's job whilst the real DoF does feck all. ETH is at fault because he want it himself but looking at the state of United is in, can you blame him?
Ole was thrown under the bus by club's recruitment, with Sancho, AWB, Ronaldo, Maguire, DVB signings. No manager wants to be victim of incompetent people
 
fallengt said:
Most of those ain't even excuses or are you going to argue Manchester United are well-run club?

Is manager expected to do DoF's job whilst the real DoF does feck all. ETH is at fault because he want it himself but looking at the state of United is in, can you blame him?
Ole was thrown under the bus by club's recruitment, with Sancho, AWB, Ronaldo, Maguire, DVB signings. No manager wants to be victim of incompetent people
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You literally made a couple more excuses.
Theres a point where the endless excuses get tired.
 
Imagine asking this after that comeback yesterday!

It's the biggest cliche fans love to use after a few bad games.
 
The biggest guard he has against losing the dressing room is how fragmented it is… it’s not like Ole or Jose or even Moyes where you had solid, vocal cliques in place.

Shaw, Rashford, Sancho and Maguire ie. The English lot all seem like loners rather than a group who associate much with each other. The Spanish/Portuguese contingent has been drastically reduced. There are no really big characters like Pogba or Lingard or even Henderson around these days, either.

The Academy lot are all still fairly new and will be wanting to impress the manager.

Then you’ve got all his signings who you’d have to assume will be sticking by him at least for the next year or so, especially the ex-Ajax guys.
 
Didn't look like it yesterday at all. It feels like there's a general loss of confidence rather than a lack of effort.
 
I think the dressing room has lost itself... More like the players don't really get on with each other let alone the manager. I don't think the players trust each other.
 
I think the dressing room is probably just lacking a real leader who's form is untouchable...so far this season the 3-4 the experienced players are all off form and Captain Bruno naturally moans and sulks through adversity.

So I think it's more those qualities missing rather than any real discontent towards the manager.
 
Stack said:
The video after the game where he tries to give McT a hug was pretty telling, both of their reactions.
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Yes, I noticed that too. The sort of thing that really needs to be sorted out.
 
Ed Woodward set a precedent at Manchester United that has completely corrupted every fiber of the club.

Player power has become the way of operating.

Regardless of whether you felt Moyes was completely out of his depth or not, it started right then and there with him and the aging senior players like Rio were a big part of it. In the past, Sir Alex benches or sells Rio and there's nothing more said. Instead, these old and respected heads who were past it, were buddy buddy with Woodward and worked to get rid.

How do any of the young players today come through the club without absorbing that culture? You see it every season and manager after. Unlike Moyes, you're now talking about established and decorated managers in LVG and then Moyes who these players that have accomplished nothing thought they were better than. And Woodward allowed it to continue to deepen.

It's so rotten that they downed tools with a United legend even.

So has ETH lost the dressing room? He never had it and was never going to without a complete squad and leadership reset.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Look at the goal celebration and tell that isn't a squad playing for each other and the manager.

https://youtube.com/shorts/c6j6g2y0MGs?si=WwnehlvjmJOi89K6
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I thought the same thing when I saw that. Also, the effort the team was exerting until the final whistle speaks well of the team spirit.

But, as others have pointed out in this thread, it did seem McTominay gave ETH the cold shoulder after the game. But, body language is subject to over-interpretation sometimes.....
 
Not at any point have I thought that. They are still well and truly playing for ETH. They're playing terribly but they're definitely playing for him.

And yesterday only reinforced that. The players kept pushing to the end to get something out of that Brentford game, in particular fringe players like Maguire, McTominay/Martial/Eriksen (who came off the bench). None of them looked like they were downing tools.

Also the way they celebrated the goals to me confirms it. They're playing for the manager but they've just had really bad results.
 
1988 said:
The Sancho drama perhaps. How we went about with de Gea?
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Have you any evidence it's 'how he went with De Gea'?
There's also the train of thought the club didn't want to pay top wages to Dave as he was clearly in decline. Plus his demands are of such a standard that he still doesn't have a club.
 
MDFC Manager said:
What was the reaction? I missed it
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ETH approached Scott to hug/congratulate immediately after the game, but Scott basically blanked him. ETH then turned away looking embarrassed. It did not look like there’s a good relationship there.
 
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I watched ETH congratulate McTom, maybe there was a second time he approached McTom but I didn't see a snub, more a knowing humble look on ETH as they embraced and ETH patted him and seem to say thank you well done.
 
To be honest, he might have lost Maguire, Scott, Martial and Sancho, but are they enough, do they have enough power to disturb anything ?

Martial is a solitary guy, Sancho is out of the team and Scott can probably leaves in Jan.

For the rest, they are all playing a lot of football and don't talk about Rashford's behavior which is only on himself.
 
Stack said:
So many excuses. Excuse after excuse.
Its just never him, you even say that when it is him its the clubs fault because they should save him from himself.
Excuse after excuse after excuse.
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Easiest comments to make from one's laptop at home. You gotta dig into what he's actually done and put yourself in his position.

Would you have kept Ronaldo?
Would you have kept De Gea when it was obvious that he made big errors and was aging?
Would you have kept Fred instead of getting new blood in and still able to get some fee/sell players to get Højlund?

Not a big Fan of Ten Hag myself and I think it's time to think about whether a sack would be the right thing to do, but simplistic comments like the one above doesn't look under the hood of the broken car. If we're ever to fix this shitshow at our club, we do need to figure out and digest what was right and what was wrong decisions. It's his style of play and a that does it for me, and only little of the above mentioned things.
 
It is lack of leadership. We have no one in the dressing room to get them fired up or unite. Our captain is too weak, and the other players seem to care only about themselves
 
Sandikan said:
Imagine asking this after that comeback yesterday!

It's the biggest cliche fans love to use after a few bad games.
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Its been a bad entire start of the season.

The comeback win was orchestrated by players redcafe would have shipped out on a seconds notice of they could.
 
redshaw said:
I watched ETH congratulate McTom, maybe there was a second time he approached McTom but I didn't see a snub, more a knowing humble look on ETH as they embraced and ETH patted him and seem to say thank you well done.
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Yeah, there must have been two separate occasions then.
 
Red_toad said:
Have you any evidence it's 'how he went with De Gea'?
There's also the train of thought the club didn't want to pay top wages to Dave as he was clearly in decline. Plus his demands are of such a standard that he still doesn't have a club.
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Nope. Guesswork that's all.

But to me, offering a contract and then withdrawing it isn't really good manners.
 
I don't get the question.. half the team are his signings, players who were very keen on playing for him. There's Sancho and Maguire who might not be his biggest fans, but I don't think the teams dedication to him is his problem, he's struggling big time tactically at the moment. Really hope he turns it around, but I can't understand some of his decisions.
 
Teat said:
I'm all for his no nonsense approach, but things seem to rumble on with players. Situations need to be dealt with, then you move on. The Sancho situation should have been put to bed weeks ago, but allowing it to become the stalemate that it has shows a definite lack of leadership from ETH, as much as he's trying to impose himself.

Same happend with Ronaldo.
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Find nothing wrong with what he is doing with sancho. Sancho has been irresponsible with his own career. Manager expects more from a player and the player cries in twitter. Sorry that is inexcusable. For all I care I hope he fecks off this January.
 
1988 said:
Nope. Guesswork that's all.

But to me, offering a contract and then withdrawing it isn't really good manners.
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You do know Ten Hag doesn't do contract negations don't you? It's very possible it was a playe/ club decision as we were looking for a young understudy during the earlier parts of the window, then it change to Onana. Dave is still holding out for his big pay day with no takers...
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Whether you think he’s good enough or not, do you think ETH has lost the dressing room?

If so, why, and how has he lost them so early in a campaign following on from a trophy and 3rd place finish?

Was it his transfers in the Summer?

The players must know that the club is falling apart due to the wretched ‘ownership’ of the Glazers.

It seems an odd time to lose the dressing room.
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I dont think he has lost the dressing room, but there is definitely a disconnect somewhere because whatever he is asking the team do, they are not doing.

In the first half, Brentford found it so easy to play out from the back. We dont have a pressing system. One player will go and push onto the defender with the ball, but no one else will go and take the free men.

I watched Luton V Spurs before, and Spurs were 1v1 all over the pitch when they didn't have the ball. That challengers the opposition team to have to go beat a man to break the press.

We are not doing anything. Surely that cant be the instruction?
 
frostbite said:
Yes.

He disrespected Ronaldo.
He spit on De Gea, embarrassing the whole club that made the offer that was accepted by the player.
He told the press that Sancho is not training well.
He played his favorites Wout and Antony while they did not perform well.
He sold Fred who was always trying hard. This is inconsistent if we assume he is playing Antony because Antony is trying hard.
He replaced De Gea with his guy, who is actually worse.
He told the press that the whole club is not up to standards. But the guys he bought with 400 million are average at best.
Extremely strong odor of nepotism, buying average guys who played for him before.


These are just the few things that we know about, but actually these are much more than what we had with any other manager in just 12 months. I assume there are many more incidents that we know nothing about.
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He did not disrespect Ronaldo. If anything, he gave him far more leeway than he deserved. He never should have gotten as many starts as he did in his last season, his performances did not merit it. And the consequences of his multiple breaches of basic standards of behavior met with considerably milder sanctions than they deserved.

The right call was made with De Gea. He was hugely overpaid, let the team down on several key occasions, was no longer performing at top level as a shotstopper and was a bad fit for the style of play. The only argument for retaining him is that it would have saved the money spent on a replacement. The fact he is still without a club is telling.

I have no complaints over the handling of the Sancho situation. Except for how it was handled by Sancho, which is unacceptable.

Antony has largely been our best option on the right, and Weghorst, in case you've forgotten, was our ONLY option up front, during the time he was played regularly.

Fred; Perfectly sensible decision. We'd added two new CMs, and promoted a third (Mainoo). We currently have six CMs for two roster spots even if we don't count DvdB and Bruno, ought we to have seven? At 30 and with a year remaining on his contract, he was the obvious choice. I don't think I've seen anyone argue that Antony plays only because he works hard, until I read that in your post.

Onana, yes, it doesn't help to replace De Gea unless the replacement works better. That is certainly looking a bit worrying right now, but we'll see.

Nepotism; I don't think either you or anyone else here has any reasonable grounds for arguing that. And I've yet to experience a manager post SAF that hasn't been accused of that by some fans....
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Whether you think he’s good enough or not, do you think ETH has lost the dressing room?
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Nope. At least there are no visible signs of it. But I think there is a chance that if few key players (regulars) lose faith in his methods, things can go south pretty fast.
 
Red_toad said:
You do know Ten Hag doesn't do contract negations don't you? It's very possible it was a playe/ club decision as we were looking for a young understudy during the earlier parts of the window, then it change to Onana. Dave is still holding out for his big pay day with no takers...
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Not even sure what your point is.
 
1988 said:
Not even sure what your point is.
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You were speculating about his treatment of Dave, could have affected the dressing room.
I pointed out he does not negotiate contracts and how the club had been looking initially at an understudy/ younger keeper. The it all changed and we went for Onana, so just as likely the club didn't want to continue to pay Dave 300k a week.
So the point is, why would the players care and blame the manager for things that are very possibly beyond his control and certainly not in his job role.
 
Red_toad said:
You were speculating about his treatment of Dave, could have affected the dressing room.
I pointed out he does not negotiate contracts and how the club had been looking initially at an understudy/ younger keeper. The it all changed and we went for Onana, so just as likely the club didn't want to continue to pay Dave 300k a week.
So the point is, why would the players care and blame the manager for things that are very possibly beyond his control and certainly not in his job role.
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But I'm pretty sure he does have a say regarding the first team players. And it seems his say was to withdraw the contract offer to de Gea. It was guesswork. I'm not even convinced he has lot the dressing room.
 
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