So now we have a split between ETH's boys and the old crew?
Has ETH lost the dressing room…?
- Thread starter Rhyme Animal
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No. He has the "dressing room" in Find My of his iPhone. It's all good
In the post match thread someone said we had no spark.
I don't think we have a plan like, kick the ball forward, get players into the box, get the ball into the box..
We are trying to play put from the back which we are not good at, and very slow at and when we get in the final third it's just sideways sideways back. Repeat until we lose the ball.
Someone said we need to simplify it for the players until we improve and get more confidence and I think that's the answer.
Until the two moments of individual brilliance, I never thought in the entire 90 mins we were going to score a goal. We may have possession and camped out in the opposition third but it was because they allowed us to do so. They knew we couldn't break them down.
Really don't know what they are doing during the training sessions.
Clearly, they are capable players technically-wise. But I just don't think they trust the coaches to come up with a solution or one that's deployable.
Another factor is that the back four, regardless of who doesn't trust the goalie. Now they are doing what they did to DDG but for different reasons -- they have a low backline which in turn creates big gaps between the midfield and the attack too.
He hasnt lost the dressing room its on the pitch where we struggling.
Defence is decimated with injury. Its as clear as day, this has impacted our goals against. A new goalie coming in is bound to struggle with this makeshift defence.
If we kept De Gea the club would have had to offer 200-250k a week, the lowest some media reported he was prepared to go and still been the highest paid goalie in the world as well. He would have wanted at least a 3 year contract as well.
We have a raw 20 year old forward and an off form Rashford upfront with our other winger embroiled with off field shenanigans.
Midfield Bruno is underperforming, the captaincy curse. Time has caught up with Casemiro and Eriksen and Mount and Amrabat are shunted into different positions every week. Sancho would sooner play xbox all night and cant make training on time, add Mainoo and Diallo, who would have been given gametime if it wasnt for serious injuries and thats why we are struggling.
TH does make some baffling decisions as well, but I dont think hes lost the dressing room.
Defence is decimated with injury. Its as clear as day, this has impacted our goals against. A new goalie coming in is bound to struggle with this makeshift defence.
If we kept De Gea the club would have had to offer 200-250k a week, the lowest some media reported he was prepared to go and still been the highest paid goalie in the world as well. He would have wanted at least a 3 year contract as well.
We have a raw 20 year old forward and an off form Rashford upfront with our other winger embroiled with off field shenanigans.
Midfield Bruno is underperforming, the captaincy curse. Time has caught up with Casemiro and Eriksen and Mount and Amrabat are shunted into different positions every week. Sancho would sooner play xbox all night and cant make training on time, add Mainoo and Diallo, who would have been given gametime if it wasnt for serious injuries and thats why we are struggling.
TH does make some baffling decisions as well, but I dont think hes lost the dressing room.
I am sure he knows where it is.
The video after the game where he tries to give McT a hug was pretty telling, both of their reactions.
I know what you mean, but McTominay was rightly lambasted last week because he lost the ball and didn't bother to win it back
Didnt see the video. What happened?
Having read the thread, one of the things that i always come back to is how we give feckin massive wages to players, and we are stuck with them forever, unable to shift them when it inevitably goes tits up. Another point to this is that i believe that clubs now look at us and genuinely believe they have a good chance of winning. Given an overview of the squad from an outsiders perspective, if i were a manager of any other team, i'd go to old trafford with a belief that i can at least get a draw. Other teams have far more money these days than back in the day, and can buy from the same places we can, buying far better players than in days gone buy. Uniteds decade + of discontent continues, unable to free itself from the shackles of mediocrity, saddled with shitbag owners. The playing staff change, as does the managerial staff, but the general flavor eminating from the club stays the same...it stinks. Its down to the owners.
Don't think he lost dressing room.
Without nitpicking (something people tend to do here so Im not gonna go into my own opinion about every single case you mentioned) mostly I completley agree with you and this seems to be the general atmosphere in the locker room.
Even if you dont like or rate a certain player (as every manager and a football fan has his of opinion and that is fine) there is a way to go on about things and ETH has proven to be stubborn, cocky and very rigid while not really backing it up with good football.
Yes he clearly has. A false dawn, (if nothing else) was seen yesterday, the performance by us was very average.
It just seems we aren’t nearly as fit as last season and tactically he has made changes as well. Maybe it’s all too quick for the players - it’s not as if the team was executing his tactics last season expertly and consistently. Doesn’t help that we’re having shit luck with injuries - hopefully that means we will have better luck with them as the season progresses. Did EtH and his team change up/add on new drills/programs during pre-season hence the injuries? No idea.
if he’s lost the dressing room then the senior players need dropping. The club is far bigger than any one or two individuals.
Seeing the McT interview on MOTD sums up the difference between some of our players. He might not have as much quality as some others but cares about the club and is a fan.
Seeing the McT interview on MOTD sums up the difference between some of our players. He might not have as much quality as some others but cares about the club and is a fan.
I think we find out in the next 2&3 matches whether this was was the proverbial 'papering over the cracks'
Or he finally gets the key players back and then it's 'ground zero' for the season. No more excuses
Or he finally gets the key players back and then it's 'ground zero' for the season. No more excuses
- I don't think he disrespected Ronaldo, he was just not good enough anymore and he made a decision to use him part time, which the former super star did not accept.
- I agree that the De Gea situation is a bit sad, with him being a former World Class keeper and a long time serving player, but I still believe ETH made the right choice by letting him go, the problem is though, the replacement he's chosen is worse than the De Gea, that makes ETH look really bad.
- I agree about Sancho, he could have approached the situation more discreetly
- Agreed about Wout and Antony - 2 bad transfers
- Fred needed to be sold, you don't make a right with 2 wrongs, ETH should drop inconsistent players, not keep them all in order to make everyone happy
- Onana is worse than De Gea, that's for sure
- Agreed that ETH's transfers were not that good, even though the money spent was a lot.
A manager is a leader and as a leader, you win over your people by making the best decisions, especially since, in the early stages, the decisions seem hard and unlikely to succeed.
Would be interested in seeing this, got a link?
He haven’t lost but he needs to take some brave decisions. To show players that form and quality is important more than names.
I’m feed up with lazyness of Rashford and Casemiro. They offer 0 right now. Bench for them. Start also playing players in their correct position. Winger is winger. Central midfielder is central midfielder. Start taking decisions like a boss would do.
I’m feed up with lazyness of Rashford and Casemiro. They offer 0 right now. Bench for them. Start also playing players in their correct position. Winger is winger. Central midfielder is central midfielder. Start taking decisions like a boss would do.
But my whole point is that it wasn't one or two things. It is many things. And my list is only what we know. I assume there are other incidents that we don't know about.
(Do you remember Moyes telling Ferdinand that he should play like Jagielka? That's how I imagine disrespect. ETH telling Ronaldo to play like Wout! Moyes compared to Ferdinand is a nobody, and ETH compared to Ronaldo is a nobody. )
You ar trying hard but these make eth looks good. You know that?
- ronaldo playing camel league
- degea is jobless and may retire early
-sancho is more focus on building his carrier on fifa online
Poor them.
Exactly! That's the point.
There's also going to be some discontent about favouritism thrown into that mix, I think. Some are not being picked off merit and are allowed to be much, much worse on a game by game basis. If you're waiting for your turn behind such players, you're already somewhat disillusioned, and further to that, if your own chance is curtailed at the first instance, there's going to be a building sense of resentment.
ten Hag was notorious for poor rotation and overplaying his preferred players at Ajax and it's unfortunate to see that has carried over as it can only reflect well if you're winning and justifying the selections, but when things aren't going well, players who have been told everyone will be treated equally are going to be within their rights to question or doubt those words as they start to wonder whether there's an Orwellian quality to the "equality" being touted.
He mightn't have lost the dressing room, but the bones of discontent are increasing exponentially, imo.
You are right. But it is also true that we are a mess, too. My point is not that Ronaldo and Sancho are great players that would save us. My point is that ETH did not handle these situations well. At this point in time ETH is a nobody, he has won nothing of value, he is not a proven manager, he is something like Moyes. And he is not really doing great with Man Utd, his signings were his former players, all of them mediocre, and his tactics is nothing great either.
Another way to view the list I gave in my post above:
ETH has picked up a lot of fights, but he has solved none of our problems. None of our lines are great or ready. Our goalkeeper is suspect. Our defense has a good but short and slow guy (Martinez) and an old injury prone guy (Varane). Our midfield is a mess. Nobody knows what Mount is supposed to do. Our attack is toothless.
ETH has spend 400 million and NONE of our lines is ready to challenge for the title. We do not look like a project half done, we look like a project that hasn't begun yet.
ETH has picked up a lot of fights, but he has solved none of our problems. None of our lines are great or ready. Our goalkeeper is suspect. Our defense has a good but short and slow guy (Martinez) and an old injury prone guy (Varane). Our midfield is a mess. Nobody knows what Mount is supposed to do. Our attack is toothless.
ETH has spend 400 million and NONE of our lines is ready to challenge for the title. We do not look like a project half done, we look like a project that hasn't begun yet.
Interesting post. Could be right, because I rarely hear ETH saying that he must do better. It's all the players, quite a few of them are his signings.
We're all over the place tactically, and he seems v v limited in the transfer market. Just signing players he knows, rather than what we need.
ETH is struggling.
No he hasn't lost them. I think he has coached us to be too safe with the ball and we are making poor individual mistakes in defence. It's very LVG with Mctominay being used a bit like Fellani. When we desperately need a goal the big men go in the box and it gets lumped in there. But up until then it's sideways and backwards.
Our attacking seems to be based on counter pressing teams, if that dosent work were just hoping someone produces something from somewhere or the oppo makes a mistake.
I would love to say the late late turnaround will be a catalyst but I'm not that confident. I don't think it an issue with ETH loosing the dressing room and more an issue with ETH not being good enough. I would love to be wrong though, and iv certainly been wrong before.
Our attacking seems to be based on counter pressing teams, if that dosent work were just hoping someone produces something from somewhere or the oppo makes a mistake.
I would love to say the late late turnaround will be a catalyst but I'm not that confident. I don't think it an issue with ETH loosing the dressing room and more an issue with ETH not being good enough. I would love to be wrong though, and iv certainly been wrong before.
Both of these.
I think he has, unfortunately. Because the players see no playing strategy and no sense of change.
So most of these same players, we are to believe, threw “good guy” Ole under the bus and are now doing the same to “narcissist” EtH? And yet we’re supposed to side with the players because of how he treated Ronaldo and DDG? I’m not sure where the Ronaldo/Wout comment comes from either? Don’t ever recall him asking Ronaldo to play like WW? Did their time even overlap?
Sure, “his” signings have a lot to prove and he should never have been given so much power over signings in the first place - and they might even end up his downfall, but that’s a bigger club issue (Arnold, Murtough). I really don’t look at what went down between him, Ronaldo, DDG & Sancho & feel any sort of sympathy with the players.
Where he’s starting to lose me though is tactics - he’s seemingly unable to get his message across and that’s on him, plus a few of the players deserve dropping: Rashford, Bruno, Onana & Casemiro to name a few. That’s being consistent and setting standards. On the 3 outfield players above - he might have some loyalty to them because they produced the goods for him last season (less so bruno but definitely the other 2).
Telling Ferdinand to play like Jagielka is a stupid thing to do, but you can't compare a manager to a player, ETH was still Ronaldo's boss regardless of their career and Ronaldo should have listened to the manager.
This I agree, we have problems in all areas, hence the results and the way we are playing.
Nobody threw any manager under the bus. Ole was not a good manager. ETH is not a good manager. It is simple.
Maguire and McTominay saved ETH today. The players do not throw their managers under the bus. The players are trying their best. But it is really hard to find a world-class manager. ETH isn't it.
Possibly yeah, certainly seems less so with each passing GW - though I still have some hope he turns it around.
Agreed, outside of Pep & Klopp, I don’t see any world class managers out there. Ancelotti definitely, but he’s at the tail end of his career as well.
And Moyes was Ferdinand's boss. If you are Moyes, and if you are smart, you approach Ferdinand properly. If you are trying to "teach" him how to play football with Jagielka as an example, while you are Moyes and you have won nothing and your only experience is Everton, then you simply don't know how to manage world-class players. You will lose Ferdinand and you will lose the dressing room.
We don't know what exactly happened between ETH and Ronaldo, but after seeing what a mess Man Utd is right now, I hypothesize that it was as bad as the Moyes-Ferdinand interaction. I think that Ferdinand told us this story only after he retired. Ronaldo hasn't told us the details, but I don't have a hard time believing that ETH was trying to teach a 37-year-old Ronaldo how to play football. I can see how this would be seen as "disrespect" by Ronaldo (and most other world class players). A good manager knows how to approach players, it is not the same when you talk to a 17-year-old and a 37-year-old player.
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We don't know what ETH told Ronaldo, if it's something as hilarious as in Moyes's case, but from what we know, Ronaldo only complained that he was subbed and he wasn't playing all the minutes(he said it in his manner talking about respect), which he did not deserve. So ETH was right in his case.
Not in the sense that they're not trying for him, but I do worry they've lost some faith in his tactics
I'm all for his no nonsense approach, but things seem to rumble on with players. Situations need to be dealt with, then you move on. The Sancho situation should have been put to bed weeks ago, but allowing it to become the stalemate that it has shows a definite lack of leadership from ETH, as much as he's trying to impose himself.
Same happend with Ronaldo.
Same happend with Ronaldo.
This was a myth. It never actually happened.
And Ronaldo deserves feck all respect, he's a tool.
Yeah I noticed that too.
Weird reaction from both and says a lot about some players attitude to the management.