Way overpriced but we are not getting De Ligt, so we don’t have a choice really.
Harry Maguire | Signed
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Yeah that is my thoughts exactly on the matter too
Losing is part of the game however defences don't usually collapse the way England did against Croatia or Holland unless there's a reason to it. In my opinion that was poor leadership. You are free to suggest otherwise. Instead you preferred to mention AC Milan's defeats against Deportivo or Liverpool when what happened there was clearly the result of an experienced but ancient defence running out of steam. Actually it added fuel to my argument in not wanting Maguire as it highlighted the absolute need of pace in defences something Harry clearly lack.
I tend to see defences more as a whole unit rather then individual players. For example, I wouldn't mind having Harry Maguire in a defence made up of fast players like AWB, Prime Evra and Prime Rio. They would sort of even strengths and weaknesses out. Unfortunately its not the case with United. Neither Lindelof nor Smalling can be considered as fast players. So the big question is, should we spend 80m on a CB who lacks the characteristics we need?
There’s many things you can call Chris Smalling, Slow is not one of them. He’s very quick.
In what world Smalling isn't fast player?
I just find it hilarious that you reduced the argument to pace and leadership.
Carry on.
He's the highest in the League in Aerial Duels but he doesn't face many so it's a bit misleading. Smalling for example is joint 6th highest on amount of headers he's faced this season with a 65% win rate. Maguire is 28th with a 78% win rate (highest in league).
However, he also has a high unsuccessful touch stat (0.7 per game), 2nd highest in the league. Only Florian Lejeune at Newcastle has more unsuccessful touches per game (0.8), our very own Phil Jones sits at 6th with 0.6 per game. Ultimately, depends what you want from your CB on whether you think he'll be a success here. I think he'd be too error prone and we've had enough of that with Jones/Smalling and Co which means the fans patience with him will be cut short.
Give me a CB who's comfortable on the ball like Laporte (someone who I wanted us to sign).
another over rated English player we have enough of them
This is what we need to do and what we've really lacked in previous transfer decisions. I really don't understand the Maguire hype, he's honestly just a decent CB who is English and, as you say, pace is becoming more and more important as professional footballers push the boundaries of fitness and physical preparation. As a minimum you have to have 2 rapid full backs/wing backs for cover and at least one fast CB (preferably two) because all players are caught out of position and, if they don't have the pace to rectify mistakes, you see those mistakes costing teams.
I would disagree though on Smalling because he is pretty rapid, however his issues lie elsewhere. I personally think an £80m Maguire would add next to nothing to what we already have. It's annoying Bailly hasn't been able to establish himself in the team because, on paper, he has everything we are looking for.
True. The Dutch TV experts were laughing at the valuation of him. Ake would be a much better option. We have Axel, Lidelof and SMalling who
He's the highest in the League in Aerial Duels but he doesn't face many so it's a bit misleading. Smalling for example is joint 6th highest on amount of headers he's faced this season with a 65% win rate. Maguire is 28th with a 78% win rate (highest in league).
However, he also has a high unsuccessful touch stat (0.7 per game), 2nd highest in the league. Only Florian Lejeune at Newcastle has more unsuccessful touches per game (0.8), our very own Phil Jones sits at 6th with 0.6 per game. Ultimately, depends what you want from your CB on whether you think he'll be a success here. I think he'd be too error prone and we've had enough of that with Jones/Smalling and Co which means the fans patience with him will be cut short.
Give me a CB who's comfortable on the ball like Laporte (someone who I wanted us to sign).
I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly. (Are you using per 90 mins metric?)
Going by total - Smalling played around 400 mins less.
Smalling - Total Aerial duels 159 - Won 102 - Lost 57
Maguire - Total Aerial duels 152 - Won 118- Lost 34
Agree with the rest of the post. Maguire is bit erratic but I feel he offers lot more than other CBs, at least to the one we have. If we can sign better CB then even better.
Would have helped us to the Top 4 had we got him last season. Not my first choice but an upgrade on Jones, Smalling, and Rojo by far and an improvement on Bailly. Lindelof is a different type and could thrive with slabhead next to him.
He's quality so Id be happy. Him and AWB would be an immense upgrade on what we have.
Agree with that.
No they would not. Upgrade perhaps (it would not be hard to be an upgrade on the present )but not the type of upgrade you need if you are planning on returning to the very top in England and Europe.
Signing like that would be a clear indication on the lack of ambition and ability from Woodward and the Glaziers
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This is exactly how I see it too. He may not be in the top 10 of world centre backs but he would improve us significantly if he came.
Fully agree, Smalling is seldom beaten for pace. Amazing how anyone can’t see that. But the general hate for all out of players does blur a lot of memories and eyesight of Caf members.
Would sum up the club if we signed him this year instead of last year. Probably would be in CL. The same price being reported too.
I never said that Smalling is slow. Maguire is slow, not Smalling. However as said in that post I consider defence as an entire unit were players complement for one another. Maguire is painfully slow and while Smalling isn't slow as he is, he's not fast enough to compensate to that.
@roonster09. The argument was reduced to what Maguire would bring to the table, whether he compliments what we've already got and if its worth spending 80m on him. Maguire is painfully slow which means that if we sign him up then we'll have to add pacy players to cover that lack. He's also not a particularly good leader either. Sure he's comfortable with the ball and he's lethal in air. However those skills alone doesn't justify the pain of having to spend a huge sum of money to reshape the defence around him.
I also suggest you actually watch the games you quote. I did and it was evident that an ageing defence was a big issue in AC Milan's defeat at Deportivo.
Am I the only one not bothered by the price? He's the best available CB we can get so I say pay it and move on.
It was the same with Van Dijk. Everyone was laughing at his fee but I said he'd be worth it and wanted us to pay it for him. After Virgil, Maguire, imo, is the best best cb in the league, and he's the only cb I've seen in recent years bar Van Dijk at Southampton that I'm confident of seeing being able to make the step up.
It was the same with Van Dijk. Everyone was laughing at his fee but I said he'd be worth it and wanted us to pay it for him. After Virgil, Maguire, imo, is the best best cb in the league, and he's the only cb I've seen in recent years bar Van Dijk at Southampton that I'm confident of seeing being able to make the step up.
How is spending nearly 150 million on 2 players shows lack of ambition?
Lack of ideas? For sure but how can it indicate lack of ambition.
I have no problem with anyone not rating Maguire, I just found your logic weird. There are shit loads of games we lost with Rio and Vida, it has nothing to do with leadership. I wasn't discussing the merits of Maguire, I was discussing your logic.
£100m+ for slabhead and AWB would be terrible business. City bought Walker and Laporte for roughly the same price
Every team in the world loses games. AC Milan of the late 80s-early 90s had the best defence in the world with Tassotti on the right, Baresi & Costacurta as CD, Maldini on the left and Rijkaard in midfield. They still lost games once in a while. However when defences collapse there's a reason behind it. Sometimes its an ageing defence, sometimes it lack of leadership and sometimes its something else. In my opinion in England's case its a mix of lack of leadership + CBs who aren't anywhere near to WC.
But City aren’t building an old-school British side are they? Big difference.
Unfortunately are we in a position where we can be that picky? We're desperate.
Or it maybe the simple case of other teams playing better than England on that particular day.
All the more reason to take a step back
Enough money has been wasted over the past 6 years and yet Young, Smalling & Jones still play (all Fergie signings)
Tbh he isnt far off and still a good age
Not considering minutes. Smalling played less than Maguire so therefore faces more Aerials per game. An example of some players below:
Worth noting from the 59 players I counted (1000+ mins, CB position) the average was 60% win rate
Smalling faces an Aerial Challenge every 13.4mins / 65%
Van Dijk faces an Aerial Challenge every 13.9mins / 75%
Mustafi faces an Aerial Challenge every 14.1mins / 67%
Matip faces an Aerial Challenge every 16.3mins / 70%
Maguire faces an Aerial Challenge every 17.1mins / 78%
Stones faces an Aerial Challenge every 19.8mins / 66%
Don't get me wrong, he'd be an improvement on our current CB's. But not enough of an improvement to warrant such a huge fee imo (assuming the papers are right) 90 million is absurd.
To be fair, the whole world's been laughing at the Dutch for a while as well. Winning is a much better option than losing most finals.
I get what you mean but paying a bit more for talent that'll improve us is fine, hopefully they do actually improve us, but with my major doubts about our management who knows.
I'd prefer AWB to Walker. But yes Maguire is too expensive
Thanks.
Yeah 90 million is really absurd and if that's the case we should follow City and abort the plan. We really should have alternatives lined up.
90 million is too much. But if it was Around 60 with add ons to 70/75 in this market is normal, people were ok with 60 million for Maddison and Maguire is a far more proven player
I take it you've never watched him play before?
Seen many games with Leicester this season. And everytime i watched Leicester they let in many goals and were horrible defensively, including Maguire.
I dont think he is good enough overall to be a United CB, sorry if i dont share your optimism about him.
Totally agree, and like i mentioned Leicester was garbage defensively this season with Maguire part of that back four.
You watched Leicester many times and came to the conclusion that Maguire is poor technically and can’t pass the ball forward? I call bullshit
They didnt say that I did., they just laughed at the valuation and high opinion that the English have of him
They would say that, wouldn’t they
Maguire i think is the obvious choice for us if De Ligt as expected goes to Barca. Agreed the price tags are high but arent they all now, would be a good sensible signing.
Tuanzebe is raw, i work with many villa fans and they all say Mings is far superior and Axel is poor in the air. That said let's give him pre-season and see how he does, cant be any worse than Rojo, Smalling and Jones.
Tuanzebe is raw, i work with many villa fans and they all say Mings is far superior and Axel is poor in the air. That said let's give him pre-season and see how he does, cant be any worse than Rojo, Smalling and Jones.
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