Harry Maguire | Signed

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Nevilles.Wear.Prada said:
Clear upgrade over the drosses we have.
Available PL proven.
Wants to join us, a non CL club, which is probably in its lowest position in over 3 decades.
Its not like we have other valid choices.

The 75mil will go towards glazers pockets otherwise.

What are we complaining about again?
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75 M for top 4 and a Cb pairing worth 100 m plus deemed not good enough to Win EPL and Champions league, while the investment needed in the midfield diverted towards Him because we got beat for other top targets and the reason we are never in the situation to land other top elite bracket talent is we never have a complete well built team capable to challenge on all fronts with poor investment plan and strategy.

Let's suppose we competed hard for N dombele and offloaded matic, we'd have enough money to Land a stop gap like toby or Diop while having hurt our direct competition for third place which is Tottenham. Now we spend 75 m on Maguire and our realistic goals is still top 4, while in process we don't keep pogba happy with the free role he wants in the team which plants the roots of him leaving, so in that situation we are back to square one, deemed not good enough to win top honours again.

This is the problem with our clueless recruitment plan.
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
Or the 75m could go towards a CB that actually suits our style of play like Diop (who also has a higher ceiling than Maguire.) or some other defender that is valued rationally.

Juventus just offered 49m for De Ligt. LCFC want 40m more than that for a worse player. They can feck off.
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How do you know Diop has a higher ceiling than Maguire? Diop from what I have seen looks a solid CB, that's about it.
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
Or the 75m could go towards a CB that actually suits our style of play like Diop (who also has a higher ceiling than Maguire.) or some other defender that is valued rationally.

Juventus just offered 49m for De Ligt. LCFC want 40m more than that for a worse player. They can feck off.
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How does Diop suit our style more than Maguire? I don’t really see what Diop would add to our defence right now. Maguire would add some much needed ability on the ball at the back, he’d add consistency (United played with 15 different back fours or fives last season if I’m not mistaken) and most importantly he’d add leadership. I’m not sure Diop would address any of those issues.

We desperately need 1) a leader at the back and 2) a center back with good ability on the ball. By now that should be very clear, after a long period where United has developed a style where the ball is played back to the defense who are unable to build from the back and passes to the goalkeeper who doesn’t trust his defenders enough so he hoofs the ball up to Lukaku who loses most headers.
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
Or the 75m could go towards a CB that actually suits our style of play like Diop (who also has a higher ceiling than Maguire.) or some other defender that is valued rationally.

Juventus just offered 49m for De Ligt. LCFC want 40m more than that for a worse player. They can feck off.
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Juve are cheapskates and there’s no way De Ligt is going for that price regardless.

Also Diops passing isn’t great, so he doesn’t suit the style that we want.
 
Patrick08 said:
Knock on effect for Leicester is, reports of 40m being quoted to Leicester for luis dunk by Brighton. :D
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Well they wouldn't be sniffing around him if they didn't know Maguire was off this summer, not with Evans and Morgan also at the club (plus the chap coming back from Celtic)

And I know all PL sides are minted these days but surely along with the 30m spent on Perez and the 40m for Tielemans Leicester will need to sell to balance the books?
 
InLevyITrust said:
How do you know Diop has a higher ceiling than Maguire? Diop from what I have seen looks a solid CB, that's about it.
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My thoughts exactly. He's had one year in the PL in a very inconsistent West Ham side. Had Mourinho not named checked him during his strop at the board I doubt many would even know who he is
 
Macern said:
So you think that there is a fixed budget and if we pay say 80m instead of 70m for Maguire we’ll reduce the fee willing to pay Sporting for Fernandes by 10m?
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We'll have maximum figure we're willing to go up to for Maguire. Who our next target is would be affected by over (or under) spending against that.
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
Or the 75m could go towards a CB that actually suits our style of play like Diop (who also has a higher ceiling than Maguire.) or some other defender that is valued rationally.

Juventus just offered 49m for De Ligt. LCFC want 40m more than that for a worse player. They can feck off.
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Diop is another smalling. Good defender but bad on the ball.
De Ligt does not want to join us.
Maguire is over priced but the best available option
 
charlenefan said:
Well they wouldn't be sniffing around him if they didn't know Maguire was off this summer, not with Evans and Morgan also at the club (plus the chap coming back from Celtic)

And I know all PL sides are minted these days but surely along with the 30m spent on Perez and the 40m for Tielemans Leicester will need to sell to balance the books?
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They have had relatively modest net spends over the years so probably they are ok, they owners are flush enough also.
 
charlenefan said:
Well they wouldn't be sniffing around him if they didn't know Maguire was off this summer, not with Evans and Morgan also at the club (plus the chap coming back from Celtic)

And I know all PL sides are minted these days but surely along with the 30m spent on Perez and the 40m for Tielemans Leicester will need to sell to balance the books?
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Nope - Top is going to spend big this summer (He has said as much). A lot of that relates to the relaxation in the FFP Short Term Cost Controls (STCC). He genuinely does not want to sell Harry, except for a silly bid.
 
InLevyITrust said:
How do you know Diop has a higher ceiling than Maguire? Diop from what I have seen looks a solid CB, that's about it.
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Macern said:
How does Diop suit our style more than Maguire? I don’t really see what Diop would add to our defence right now. Maguire would add some much needed ability on the ball at the back, he’d add consistency (United played with 15 different back fours or fives last season if I’m not mistaken) and most importantly he’d add leadership. I’m not sure Diop would address any of those issues.

We desperately need 1) a leader at the back and 2) a center back with good ability on the ball. By now that should be very clear, after a long period where United has developed a style where the ball is played back to the defense who are unable to build from the back and passes to the goalkeeper who doesn’t trust his defenders enough so he hoofs the ball up to Lukaku who loses most headers.
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Ole wants to play with a high press, which necessitates a high defensive line. For that we need a defender who can quickly cover ground in case the opposition get in behind. Maguire will always get beaten for pace in that situation, which makes him a weak point that is bound to be exploited time and again.

Diop is decent on the ball, but Maguire is better. Maguire is better at heading than Diop, but they are similar heights so Diop can reach his level if he works on that part of his game. Other than that, Diop is better at defending from what I can see. Given Diop's age, I can see him working on his game and eclipsing Maguire's level. He isnt limited by his pace so I think he is likely to be the better player in 2-3 years time.

I would take Maguire for 70m with a shot of whiskey. But 90m is insanity.
 
InLevyITrust said:
How do you know Diop has a higher ceiling than Maguire? Diop from what I have seen looks a solid CB, that's about it.
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My West Ham mates don't rate him particularly, and said they would have gladly sold him for a £40m offer..!
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
Ole wants to play with a high press, which necessitates a high defensive line. For that we need a defender who can quickly cover ground in case the opposition get in behind. Maguire will always get beaten for pace in that situation, which makes him a weak point that is bound to be exploited time and again.

Diop is decent on the ball, but Maguire is better. Maguire is better at heading than Diop, but they are similar heights so Diop can reach his level if he works on that part of his game. Other than that, Diop is better at defending from what I can see. Given Diop's age, I can see him working on his game and eclipsing Maguire's level. He isnt limited by his pace so I think he is likely to be the better player in 2-3 years time.

I would take Maguire for 70m with a shot of whiskey. But 90m is insanity.
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We play the high press and line, we have Verts and Toby both I would say are pretty slow at covering ground but both read the game well. I would take an intelligent defender over a fast one every day of the week.
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
Ole wants to play with a high press, which necessitates a high defensive line. For that we need a defender who can quickly cover ground in case the opposition get in behind. Maguire will always get beaten for pace in that situation, which makes him a weak point that is bound to be exploited time and again.

Diop is decent on the ball, but Maguire is better. Maguire is better at heading than Diop, but they are similar heights so Diop can reach his level if he works on that part of his game. Other than that, Diop is better at defending from what I can see. Given Diop's age, I can see him working on his game and eclipsing Maguire's level. He isnt limited by his pace so I think he is likely to be the better player in 2-3 years time.

I would take Maguire for 70m with a shot of whiskey. But 90m is insanity.
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Diop is indeed faster than Maguire, but I don’t think Maguire that slow and he’s excellent in positioning himself so that he doesn’t end up in situations where he’ll have to keep up or catch his opponent. I’ve seen Leicester playing with a high line several times and I can remember one specific instance against United where his positioning made sure Rashford couldn’t exploit the space behind him.

The problem with Diop is that he doesn’t address the lack of leadership and lack of ability to play out from the back. I’m not even sure he’s currently better than the players we already have. He can become a good player in the future, sure, but he’s in my opinion definitely not what we need right now. Maguire is and he’s the only one that I can think among all realistic signings that is better than our current CBs (at least all except for Lindelöf), can go in and take on a leader role immediately and significantly improves our ability to play out from the back.
 
InLevyITrust said:
We play the high press and line, we have Verts and Toby both I would say are pretty slow at covering ground but both read the game well. I would take an intelligent defender over a fast one every day of the week.
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You have a good midfield resistance which shields the defence as well and players who press from the front and don't stroll without the ball, and still Tottenham are no where close to winning a EPL title.

We gifted top 4 to Tottenham, they didn't earn it.
 
Leftback99 said:
We'll have maximum figure we're willing to go up to for Maguire. Who our next target is would be affected by over (or under) spending against that.
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So if we have say 130 million left and we buy Maguire for 80 we’ll only be able to pay 50 for Fernandes? And if Sporting demand 60 we can’t buy him whereas if we paid 10m less for Maguire we’d also get Fernandes, do you really think that’s how it works in real life?
 
Patrick08 said:
You have a good midfield resistance which shields the defence as well and players who press from the front and don't stroll without the ball, and still Tottenham are no where close to winning a EPL title.

We gifted top 4 to Tottenham, they didn't earn it.
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Was there any need for this really?

Please name me this good midfield resistance we had last season after Christmas. You gifted nothing you finished 5 points behind us and 2 positions back, all the teams were shit outside the top 2, I suppose you gifted Arsenal 5th too? I fail to see what this has to do with Harry Maguire.
 
Patrick08 said:
We gifted top 4 to Tottenham, they didn't earn it.
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We didnt gift anything to anyone. Apart from the brief spell of wins when Ole took over, we were shithouse before and after that run. The fact is we deserved to finish 6th!
 
InLevyITrust said:
We play the high press and line, we have Verts and Toby both I would say are pretty slow at covering ground but both read the game well. I would take an intelligent defender over a fast one every day of the week.
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I would too (some days of the week). But the question here is do you take an intelligent but slow player for 90m, or a quick and fairly intelligent player for ~75m max (if West Ham does a Leicester, otherwise ~55-60m). Maguire is the better player overall, but LCFC is asking for too much money. The only reasonable option left is the latter. Would you sign Maguire for 85-90m if you were in our situation?

Macern said:
Diop is indeed faster than Maguire, but I don’t think Maguire that slow and he’s excellent in positioning himself so that he doesn’t end up in situations where he’ll have to keep up or catch his opponent. I’ve seen Leicester playing with a high line several times and I can remember one specific instance against United where his positioning made sure Rashford couldn’t exploit the space behind him.

The problem with Diop is that he doesn’t address the lack of leadership and lack of ability to play out from the back. I’m not even sure he’s currently better than the players we already have. He can become a good player in the future, sure, but he’s in my opinion definitely not what we need right now. Maguire is and he’s the only one that I can think among all realistic signings that is better than our current CBs (at least all except for Lindelöf), can go in and take on a leader role immediately and significantly improves our ability to play out from the back.
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The bold part is where you departed from reason. Maguire is better than Diop, thats true. But to suggest that Diop is worse than every defender we have, Rojo and Jones included is just not accurate.
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
I would too. But the question here is do you take an intelligent but slow player for 90m, or a quick and fairly intelligent player for ~75m max. Maguire is the better player overall, but LCFC is asking for too much money. The only reasonable option left is the latter. Would you sign Maguire for 85-90m if you were in our situation?


The bold part is where you departed from reason. Maguire is better than Diop, thats true. But to suggest that Diop is worse than every defender we have, Rojo and Jones included is just not accurate.
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Not at all but I'm not a United fan, that sort of fee wont effect any other signings you make that much. While I think it would be good if our total net spend this window was £100M :lol:.
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
I would too. But the question here is do you take an intelligent but slow player for 90m, or a quick and fairly intelligent player for ~75m max. Maguire is the better player overall, but LCFC is asking for too much money. The only reasonable option left is the latter. Would you sign Maguire for 85-90m if you were in our situation?


The bold part is where you departed from reason. Maguire is better than Diop, thats true. But to suggest that Diop is worse than every defender we have, Rojo and Jones included is just not accurate.
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I didn’t say that. I said that I wasn’t sure he’s better than every player we have, not that he is worse than every player we have. He’s obviously better than for instance Luca Ercolani.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Not at all but I'm not a United fan, that sort of fee wont effect any other signings you make that much. While I think it would be good if our total net spend this window was £100M :lol:.
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Exactly. If Levy needed a defender as much as we did, he would still look for a young and exciting prospect for decent money. You would expect a world class talent for 90m. World class and Harry Maguire are mutually exclusive concepts.

Macern said:
I didn’t say that. I said that I wasn’t sure he’s better than every player we have, not that he is worse than every player we have. He’s obviously better than for instance Luca Ercolani.
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Fair enough. I also acknowledge your point about needing leadership. But I dont think that is enough to justify the extra money Leicester is asking for. We could always give the armband to De Gea if he ends up signing a new contract.

We already have Lindelof who is good at playing from the back (although I think you are underrating Diop's ability on the ball). Diop-Lindelof has a good balance to it dont you think?
 
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B20 said:
Strange claim to be making from 6th place.
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The final surge for the top 4 place was a joke really, being passed up like a hot potato.
In those final 5 games with 15 points to play for, Chelsea gained 6 points, Spurs & Arsenal both gained 4 points, and United gained 2 points.

So you could argue, that normally, any of them would have missed out with such poor form.
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
Exactly. If Levy needed a defender as much as we did, he would still look for a young and exciting prospect for decent money. You would expect a world class talent for 90m. World class and Harry Maguire are mutually exclusive concepts.
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I do agree but if Ole/Woodward is going for this British core, what other CB is there? Gomes or Stones would be nearly impossible deals to do?
 
Macern said:
So if we have say 130 million left and we buy Maguire for 80 we’ll only be able to pay 50 for Fernandes? And if Sporting demand 60 we can’t buy him whereas if we paid 10m less for Maguire we’d also get Fernandes, do you really think that’s how it works in real life?
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I don't think we're in for Fernandes but if we were we'll pay up to what we think he's worth. If we spend £110m on Maguire we likely wouldn't be in for him at all.

In the real world if you overpay for something there is a knock on impact elsewhere. Does that somehow not happen in football?
 
Leftback99 said:
I don't think we're in for Fernandes but if we were we'll pay up to what we think he's worth. If we spend £110m on Maguire we likely wouldn't be in for him at all.

In the real world if you overpay for something there is a knock on impact elsewhere. Does that somehow not happen in football?
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Yes but I think not as black and white as you make it out to be.
 
InLevyITrust said:
I do agree but if Ole/Woodward is going for this British core, what other CB is there? Gomes or Stones would be nearly impossible deals to do?
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I dont think the British requirement is a must for recruitment, other wise we wouldnt be looking at Bruno Fernandes and Dani Olmo. We also offered for De Ligt. I think they prefer British talent, but they will go for others especially if they have PL experience already. Other than Diop, we have also been linked to Nathan Collins from Stoke who is almost British. But I have no Idea if the latter is good enough to make an immediate contribution.

But I would rather add to that 90m and get someone like Koulibaly than be robbed by LCFC. The Sanchez horror is still fresh so we have to be wary of overspending on (relatively) average talent.
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
Fair enough. I also acknowledge your point about needing leadership. But I dont think that is enough to justify the extra money Leicester is asking for. We could always give the armband to De Gea if he ends up signing a new contract.

We already have Lindelof who is good at playing from the back (although I think you are underrating Diop's ability on the ball). Diop-Lindelof has a good balance to it dont you think?
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In terms of ball playing ability I’m not sure. I haven’t seen Diop that much, but I can’t really remember him being anything special on the ball. I’ve seen too many instances of the team being unable to play out properly from the back due to De Gea not risking playing short to the center backs and not having the ability to pass to the fullbacks like Onana does.

I’d love for United to sell De Gea and replace him with Onana, but assuming De Gea stays I think the only solution to the build-up problem is to bring someone like Maguire in. He’d also add much needed maturity and leadership. All of Shaw, AWB and Lindelöf are young and we need someone experienced to make it into a complete back four. That’s why I think paying 80-90m for Maguire is worth it even though he himself isn’t worth that kind of money.
 
Patrick08 said:
75 M for top 4 and a Cb pairing worth 100 m plus deemed not good enough to Win EPL and Champions league, while the investment needed in the midfield diverted towards Him because we got beat for other top targets and the reason we are never in the situation to land other top elite bracket talent is we never have a complete well built team capable to challenge on all fronts with poor investment plan and strategy.

Let's suppose we competed hard for N dombele and offloaded matic, we'd have enough money to Land a stop gap like toby or Diop while having hurt our direct competition for third place which is Tottenham. Now we spend 75 m on Maguire and our realistic goals is still top 4, while in process we don't keep pogba happy with the free role he wants in the team which plants the roots of him leaving, so in that situation we are back to square one, deemed not good enough to win top honours again.

This is the problem with our clueless recruitment plan.
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Having a ball playing defender helps in ball retention, possession based play. Regardless of how you look at it, pogbas problem lies at his own attitude partly. I dont think signing players to suit him is a way to go at the moment. We should look to have a set plan of play and sign accordingly when such players becomes available.
This guy is available and clearly huge upgrade on everyone we have. The other targets are either unavailable or do not want to come.. We can't lose it out.
But if better choices are available we should ruthlessly ditch and go ahead with others.
 
With the premier league experience he brings. How many games he play every season, he would be a perfect signing. If he cost 40, 50, 60 or 70 isn’t reallly that important.
 
Nevilles.Wear.Prada said:
This guy is available and clearly huge upgrade on everyone we have.
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Nonsense. All current CBs are faster than Maguire. Linderof is also less prone to mistakes.

The other targets are either unavailable or do not want to come.. We can't lose it out.
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Nonsense on stilts. United just haven't looked at enough CBs.
But if better choices are available we should ruthlessly ditch and go ahead with others.
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Sense at last. For a moment I was worried you were Maguire's mum or agent.
 
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