That's going to happen when you play once or twice every 3 months. A fit Bailly is a very good defender, he's just never fit.
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That's going to happen when you play once or twice every 3 months. A fit Bailly is a very good defender, he's just never fit.
Disagree.
Feels like he has hardly played to the point where people believe he doesn’t make mistakes.
No, I'm being realistic.
Can you honestly sit there and say that no other player was equally if not more culpable in that passage of play than Maguire?
A) no midfielders tracked the runner at all, Havertz had the freedom of the park, Nothing said of Bellingham's poor excuse for tracking back.
B) Rice's poor attempt at closing down on the edge of the box is conveniently glossed over too.
The guy on social media was talking about a German chance, which again was not all down to Maguire, the lack of midfielders tracking the runner was the main issue.
But of course Maguire gets the blame, because people are desperate to be right about Maguire and so will highlight any small detail and amplify it beyond anything else.
He had his own fans backing him.
I think there are two dimensions to this: First, what he should be doing and second, what he deserves. You can definitely make a case that his reactions aren't helpful but regardless of what he did, in the end it's just football and nothing he did justifies the abuse he gets. I think the spotlight should be much more on the people commenting nasty stuff. If you find it funny, laugh for what it's worth but stop it there.
Ideally, he'd accept that people are unfair to him and that stuff like this is out of his control, so better focus on what he can control, which is his communication and performances. That might really be a lack of self reflection. But let's be honest, even if he had gone to the next camera after the match and stated that he's the GOAT and Pele, Maradona and Messi got nothing on him, he still deserves much more respect than he currently gets and I understand that he feels the urge to make this clear.
Him not being fit was a far bigger problem than his mistakes - he could never play 3 consecutive games.
John Terry had a better support system. Loved by his fans, backed to the hilt by everyone bar the online meme brigade. John Terry's ability in each game wasn't scrutinised after the missed penalty. Different situation to the current Maguire one. I'm not advocating or even saying Maguire is a good player - he isn't good enough, but the toxicity surrounding him is terrible.
No one is in Maguire's corner apart from a spattering of journalists who are quickly abandoning him.
I mean yeah that's sort of what happens after you play horrendously every time you step out on the pitch as a club captain. Why should I or anyone else "be in his corner"? Of course I hope he starts playing brilliantly again, and I'm not sitting there sending him hate mail, but he's geniunely shit and has been for a fair minute at this point and no supporter has an obligation to defend him to the hilt. You either have it in you to mentally compete at the top level or you don't. Maguire doesn't. Which is fine, he'll have a great life and go to a smaller club out of the spotlight to continue playing. But no one should be reprimanded for not coddling the guy or "not being in his corner".
You answered your own question.
Because Terry was a quality player, leader and a deserved captain of the team.
WTF! An injured player playing full match in a nothing match. Is this something we supposed to be proud of?
Thr chelsea fans backed Terry because he performed, Maguire has not for a whole year and he was not the only one that faced harsh criticism, mcfred was constantly mocked and fair play to mctominay he has come back stronger to show he is deserving of a future at the club, shaw has had the same issue at united this season under ten hag but still put in decent performance for England
I don't agree with the directed hate at Maguire but it's unfortunately a reality of being at a big club and Maguire's situation is not unique in football, he needs to get his head down and let his performances on the pitch speak for themselve.
No. It's because he had his own fans backing him. That's how he got through the abuse after the missed penalty in the Champuons League final. Which I might add was nowhere near the level of abuse Maguire is getting from his own fans
I think people would be more likely to back him if he actually took responsibility when he plays crap instead of blaming others. Look at De Gea after the Brentford game loads of people were saying fair play to him for coming out and admitting the mistakes and taking the blame himself
There's a difference between hoping a player at my club all of the sudden turns it around, and defending said player or expressly supporting him against criticism (or even refusing to criticize his poor play myself).
Hence why he flourished at Leicester City just like evans has, the reality is Harry was overrated based on international tournament football which is very deceiving as seen James Rodriguez, diouf, baros, schick etc..
Maguire is the one who breaks the shape by needlessly running out of position, leaving an empty space where he should have been. An empty space that the German player then gets into and shoots from. It’s not Bellingham job to be in the CB’s position, nor Rice’s.
Where you would typically blame the CM & CDM is further up the pitch. In the clip shown, everyone is sticking to a shape to contain the attack and then counter if they win the ball.
Fans will back up occassional mistakes if a player is giving quality performance otherwise consistently. United or any fans are not different. We all are same species. It is just that because of huge fan base criticisms can feel sometimes louder than usual. Also every other fan would like to take a dump on united player.
United fans protected him until it was evident he was purely shit, with Beckham and Rooney they were putting in good enough perfomace for us something us fans could fall back on.
Now here is a question for you!! What do you want united fan to protect him with?
The state of the national team and Gareth Southgate. Won't drop or substitute an underperforming injured player because of the bad PR it might cause.
Where did you come from ?
You're comparing Maguire who was never good enough to play for Utd to Terry who was one of the best defenders in the world? Maguire had crazy support here at the beginning where people were shitting on Lindelof, Shaw and others for his own shortcomings. He was almost always excused by a large minority on this forum for all sorts of mistakes - costly or not. It's crazy how some of you can't even admit we made a mistake by buying a fecking Titus Bramble while expecting John Terry levels of performances.
The balls gets played last the midfielders, completely bypassing them in one pass, they are out of position in that one pass.
Maguire has stepped out to try stop the German player from turning on the ball, and no one goes with the runner, Sule bypasses two England players.
Sorry, but this is not Maguire's fault. This is exactly what I was alluding to earlier.
People are now picking up on miniscule errors and amplifying them to something bigger than what they are.
The guy, whoever he is, even says 'even when Maguire doesn't make a mistake it's his fault'
please stop itThe original question was something like, Terry was able to cope with the memes and abuse after the missed penalty in the Champion League final, what cant Maguire?
The answer is that he had the support of his fans. Maguire doesn’t. It’s the correct answer even if you don’t want it to be.
The same can be said for Beckham and Ronaldo after they returned as villains from the World cup and Euros. Unbreakable support from the fans.
Abuse towards his family?I think that is bad. I get the criticism towards him as a football and I too have been one of them. Where the line is crossed is people making comments on the way he looks, his family etc. Even if you are a grass, you should never be subject to that. This is nyo prison.
What are you talking about? I'm not comparing the players ability. I'm comparing the abuse both players received and how one was able to deal with it due to the support of his own fans while the other is getting it from all angels. Bloody hellWhere did you come from ?
You're comparing Maguire who was never good enough to play for Utd to Terry who was one of the best defenders in the world? Maguire had crazy support here at the beginning where people were shitting on Lindelof, Shaw and others for his own shortcomings. He was almost always excused by a large minority on this forum for all sorts of mistakes - costly or not. It's crazy how some of you can't even admit we made a mistake by buying a fecking Titus Bramble while expecting John Terry levels of performances.
I see your tag is well earned and quite fitting.
They had unbreakable support from fans because they were really good players who consistently performed for their clubs, there is a big difference between missing 1 penalty even in a big game or having a nightmare tournament with your national team and being consistently rubbish for your club.
Agreed.
I doubt he has the mentality to bounce back from this. Most likely sitting at home blaming everyone else
Look at the players names you are taking. Those players produced stellar performance for their respective clubs. Why wouldn't fans support them? Hd Maguire been giving Beckham like performance recently for united then we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.
Having said that, I still believe there is a good player in him and hope he turns the corner very soon and put all this to rest.
You're completely missing the point of why they had unwavering support from our fans. They had performed consistently.
That's actually not true because on the back of wink-gate most of our fans wanted Ronaldo gone to show support for Rooney who was seen as the bigger and more important talent. It was Ronaldo's unwavering desire to be the best and prove the doubters wrong that pushed him to new heights that season.
None of these things can be levied at Maguire.
His tone deaf posts on social media, his delusion in interviews haven't helped at all. If I were on his PR team I would be telling him to shut the feck up for a while.
While some of the criticism has boiled over into abuse; 99% of it is fair and just.
Is it because millions of Chelsea fans are better than millions of United fans?
Apologies for replying to three posts in one but I only get ten posts a day and I think this is my last one
The answer is simple and without a shadow of a doubt the correct answer in that said players had the backing of their home fans whereas Maguire clearly doesn’t. Its easier to cope with and manage something when you have unconditional support to rely on. Maguire doesn’t have that
We should all want Maguire to improve as we will need to rely on him this season. That’s not going to happen if his own fans are the main instigators to the abuse (not criticism) he receives
Your confusing criticism with abuse. I don’t think I’ve heard one fan say that he shouldn't be criticised for his performances, of course he should. As long as the criticism is just and fair.
I’m not sure if I read you right and I apologise if I had, but you claim 99% of the abuse is fair and just? And you wonder why he isn’t performing on the pitch.
Again. I’m not talking about the players ability I'm talking about how they managed to cope with the abuse better than Maguire is. As was the original question.
The answer is simple and without a shadow of a doubt the correct answer in that said players had the backing of their home fans whereas Maguire clearly doesn’t. Its easier to cope with and manage something when you have unconditional support to rely on. Maguire doesn’t have that
We should all want Maguire to improve as we will need to rely on him this season. That’s not going to happen if his own fans are the main instigators to the abuse (not criticism) he receives
Do you think they would have performed consistently if they’d received the level of abuse from their own fans as Maguire has? Ronaldo has unconditional support when he returned to Old Trafford. We sang his name the entire game if I remember correctly.
Your confusing criticism with abuse. I don’t think I’ve heard one fan say that he shouldn't be criticised for his performances, of course he should. As long as the criticism is just and fair.
I’m not sure if I read you right and I apologise if I had, but you claim 99% of the abuse is fair and just? And you wonder why he isn’t performing on the pitch.
Not at all. It’s because fans are massive hypocrites and we will defend to the death players we like while abuse others for no other reason than we don’t like them.
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The part were he said someone has paid the Media not to say how shit Maguire actually is really got me
The funny part is that he thinks we paid the media. Bollocks!!!The part were he said someone has paid the Media not to say how shit Maguire actually is really got me
Just seems to be going from bad to worse for him. It wasn't his worst game last night overall but the mistakes he made were calamitous enough to overshadow that. He needs to be taken out of the spotlight for a while, and he should not be starting ahead of Coady or Tomori for England.
So Van der Vaart thinks he's Sunday league level at best.
Ronaldo was supported because he flew out the blocks that season. He was not getting unwavering support. You're misremembering, or more likely making a false equivalence to absolve Maguire somewhat.
And yes you have massively misread and misunderstood my post. I said 99% of the CRITICISM is justified. You're tarring everyone with the same brush because of the 1%.
You've had an absolute mare in the thread over a number of days. It's probably best you've ran out of posts for the day because you seem to be digging yourself deeper and are getting too emotional, leading to you making sweeping statements and strawman.
Not enough has been made of this. Our "captain" risked injury or played injured right before a huge stretch of key games for his club in a friendly for his country. The only purpose was to show his england manager and teammates his commitment to their cause. Well he has also shown his commitment to Manchester United and it's absolutely pathetic..
It's nothing new, our players were listed as the most hated players in the league in terms of abuse they receive on social media last season. I believe 8 of the top 10 were United players.
The likes of Pogba, Bruno, Rashford, Martial and Ronaldo after last season have all been lightning rods for rival fans and in particular, our own fanbase for years now.
In a few cases, like with Maguire and Rashford, they've at least been afforded some level of backing in the press/media to counteract the tide from fans. Our foreign players on the other hand, bar Ronaldo who's a living worldwide icon with his own department of PR, get the full brunt of it from fans along with those same pundits/journos.
It's an ugly reality of the modern game and especially a reality of playing for one of the 2/3 biggest clubs in the world in terms of following.
The time I take issue with it is when the criticism goes beyond just football/performance and becomes blatantly personal and vindictive like it has for a few of our current and former players. Most of Maguires criticism I find has come from his form or lackthereof over the past 2 seasons rather than him personally.
It's just a shame that it sometimes becomes a self fufilling cycle once you fall into that poor form and end up having all the outside noise impacting you as well eventually making it harder to overcome.
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