[Tom Van Persie]

He must not play against Brighton. It will cost us

He's suspended.

 

[TsuWave]

I remember there used to be a myth that he was good on the ball/ball playing CB. Crazy stuff

 

[Chief123]

He must not play against Brighton. It will cost us

He won’t be. He’s suspended.

 

[acnumber9]

What was wrong with Maguires pass back?

He knows De Gea can’t pass the ball and multiple Sevilla players are closing in. If we want to blame De Gea for not knowing Maguire is shit with the ball we can throw it right back to Maguire knowing De Gea is shit with the ball.

 

[VeevaVee]

Maguire did ask for the ball but he certainly wouldn't have wanted the pass that De Gea gave him. He was moving across the field so a quick pass into his stride was what he should have got back. It would still have been a somewhat dangerous position as one Sevilla player would have been right on him, but he would have had more options and more space to play into while also having vision of more of the field. If he'd messed it up it in that situation it absolutely would have been mostly Maguire's fault. Instead De on Gea made a slow pass straight at the position Maguire was in despite the fact Maguire was moving across the field with his momentum taking him away from that spot. It being a weak pass straight into the middle of three different opposition players meant they had more time to press him from every direction, and it being behind where Maguire was moving meant to he had to check back and be caught flat footed. At that point he couldn't pass it back to De Gea, he couldn't pass it out to AWB (which is what he tried to do and messed it up), he couldn't pass it to Lindelof or Dalot on his right, he couldn't turn to his right and progress the ball that way. The only things Maguire could do in that situation was either boot the ball out of play or make a fairly risky turn to his left into space. It might have worked and Martinez likely would have done it, but I wouldn't have been confident in any of our other central defenders. Maguire obviously least of all, but even with Varane, Lindelof or Shaw I'd have had my heart in my mouth.

Maguire is the one that fecked his body position ruining any chance to get out of it though. If he had the awareness he could have turned with the ball and passed out wide. Both attackers would have been taken out the game.

 

[roonster09]

Disagree. Could have taken it on the turn and accelerate away from the 3 players. But telling Maguire to accelerate is like telling pigs to fly.

Yeah pass back was never an option.

 

[ExecutionerWasp001]

Guy is shot & shouldn't play again this season. We can then protect whatever resale value he has left. Won't be so much of an issue if Quatar come in as they'll ship out the deadwood at rock bottom prices to get them out. If we end up stuck with the Glazers then every penny will count in regards next seasons transfer budget.

 

[Oranges038]

Honestly mate, coaching probably isn’t for you. If you’re teaching kids to pass to their team mates weaker foot every time, they ain’t going to make it.

Back foot….this ain’t a back foot cover drive in cricket mate.

Oh man, I think you should give up pretending to watch or understand football.

It's not passing to their weaker foot every time, it's to the back foot. Whether that is to the right foot or left foot is based on the body shape and position of the player receiving the ball.

It's literally one of the basic principles of what constitutes a good pass. It's one of the first things you should teach kids when they are 7 years old and focusing on making and receiving passes.

https://pdafootball.co.uk/receive-ball-inside-back-foot/

When a player is able to control a pass with their back foot it gives them a great advantage over opponents. By checking shoulders and receiving with the inside of your back foot will buy a player more time on the ball so they can see what is happening around them.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/theathletic.com/3137291/2022/03/02/mount-foden-smith-rowe-how-receiving-on-the-back-foot-is-helping-english-players-thrive/?amp=1?espv=1

Now I know why people think some of these Utd players are good on the ball, don't know what being good on the ball looks like.

 

[Jericho]

I'm not saying this was the root of the problem last night but why does Maguire hold the ball so long until opponents close down the space and only then make the blatantly obvious pass leaving that player under much more pressure than was necessary? Players who do that at 5 a sides are assholes.

 

[Adisa]

Hands downs our worst ever signing.

 

[miked99]

Both players are to blame, but de Gea has to take the majority of it.

Maguire was not in a position to safely recieve a pass. He was being closed down from the left, from the right, and also from the back. He either didn't realise that, or had a misguided confidence in his belief to deal with it. Either way he should never have asked for the ball in that situation, but that's not the issue. Just because he asked for it doesn't mean he has to be given it. Unlike Maguire, de Gea can clearly see the whole picture, he has time, he can see that he's being closed down by three players and still choose to give him a shite pass anyway. Absolutely brainless, both in execution and decision making.

 

[Reddevildans]

I'm not saying this was the root of the problem last night but why does Maguire hold the ball so long until opponents close down the space and only then make the blatantly obvious pass leaving that player under much more pressure than was necessary? Players who do that at 5 a sides are assholes.

This. Taking away all those errors he has made on the ball and got away with this season (can probably name 10 examples), the most frustrating part of his game is a lack of urgency. He seems to think he has the time in the world to make decisions whether I'd be passing or clearing the ball. Then there is his passing. Slow, behind players and with no pace at all. His long balls invariably get cut out or overhit most of the time. Such a frustrating player.

 

[FriedClams]

There seems to be a common theme with maguires big mistakes. They typically happen away from home, against a hostile crowd, who know they can get under his skin. He played pretty good more often than not when stadiums were empty. I think he’s just unable to deal with it, and probably needs to see a sports psychologist, at his next club.

 

[Abraxas]

What is strange in all this is the people that seem to equate criticising DeGea's decision making and execution of a pass with letting Maguire off the hook or being absolved of blame?

Total nonsense, does anyone seriously believe Harry Maguire didn't mess up? I don't see that being argued because it would be totally ridiculous.

But saying DeGea messed up is simply calling a spade a spade. There were two cooks in this instance and to be honest whether it was 60% one or 50/50 or whatever ratio is rather arbitrary. If either of them had done their jobs correctly it wouldn't have happened, that's the bottom line.

 

[Zen86]

Urm.... yes they are if you want to play out the back. I have seen Lisandro deal with those passes and get out a press, that is what playing out from the back is, break the press.

How is it suicide when the player is asking for the football?

honestly, I think if that same pass was played to Varane or Licha, that panic mistake isnt happening. They would have the sense to let it roll and play it on, or just hoof it away from the danger

Neither of which takes away from the fact that it's a terrible pass to make that can quite easily result in conceding a goal. DDG has a full view of what's in front, Maguire is alone on the edge of the box and being quickly closed down by 3 opposition players. Any CB has the potential to lose the ball in that situation.

 

[El Zoido]

Petty back and forth argument, it was both of their faults. Neither are of the standard necessary for the football we’re trying to play. Doesn’t make a jot of difference if one is slightly more to blame than the other. Just another clown show at the back for United.

 

[romufc]

Neither of which takes away from the fact that it's a terrible pass to make that can quite easily result in conceding a goal. DDG has a full view of what's in front, Maguire is alone on the edge of the box and being quickly closed down by 3 opposition players. Any CB has the potential to lose the ball in that situation.

Yes, the pass was not great, I have said we need a new keeper who can distribute better.

However; it was more Maguire's fault, he has this tendency to be slow approaching the ball, we have seen it many times. One that sticks out to me is the Leicester goal where he waited and waited until he got pressed then panics.

Maguire cannot handle the football under a high press, its that simple.

 

[BusbyMalone]

It wasn't a great pass from De Gea, but I don't think it's asking too much for one of the most expensive CB's in the world to do more than fecking kick it into the opposing player's leg, FFS. We've seen Martinez deal with similar situations before.

Edit: Not EXACTLY the same, obviously. Just a similar situation.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

Neither of which takes away from the fact that it's a terrible pass to make that can quite easily result in conceding a goal. DDG has a full view of what's in front, Maguire is alone on the edge of the box and being quickly closed down by 3 opposition players. Any CB has the potential to lose the ball in that situation.

But he asked for the ball, he’d decided he could play out with the ball in that situation.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Absolutely crap defender, it wasn't strange when Ten Hag didn't pick him at all for long periods، even Shaw was preferred ahead of him..

He has to leave, the club should just sell him for a cut price like 20 mil or something

 

[Zen86]

Yes, the pass was not great, I have said we need a new keeper who can distribute better.

However; it was more Maguire's fault, he has this tendency to be slow approaching the ball, we have seen it many times. One that sticks out to me is the Leicester goal where he waited and waited until he got pressed then panics.

Maguire cannot handle the football under a high press, its that simple.

No one is debating whether Maguire is quick or good on the ball, though. The debate is whether DDG should have such a risky pass to an isolated CB under pressure. He of course shouldn't have. There is a tendency on this forum to think that because Maguire has been at fault other times, he's automatically the one at fault in every other situation.

 

[arnoldS]

You see passes like that every week from keepers like Allison or Ederson. Every CB that isn't braindead can deal with a situation like that. The first goal is 100% on Maguire how is that even a discussion? Worst case he should simply smash it out of play. He stood there and didn't move an inch towards the ball, why? And what the hell was his plan?

 

[Bondi77]

I like Big Dave but he had an absolute shocker and he has to shoulder all of the blame for this debacle.

 

[Zen86]

But he asked for the ball, he’d decided he could play out with the ball in that situation.

I wasn't aware he controls the actions of the rest of the team. Must be hard having a keeper that's unable to think for himself.

 

[Bondi77]

Lindelof RCB vs Brighton...I cannot wait.

 

[LARulz]

noticed this in the Ole meltdown season. He was nowhere to be seen, always Bruno doing the speaking

It's actually a joke. I don't get what he does as captain. Rio said this recently - some captains lead by example like Bruno but some are good behind the scenes so can only assume that's also the case with him

 

[quadrant]

Having watched the video in slow mo, I definately have bit more sympathy for Maguire on the goal.

- His ball to DDG was absolutely fine, no idea why people are criticising that.
- Once he releases it he starts moving towards AWB in order to get ready to pass the return ball out wide. He's in loads of space so he shouts to DDG and points where he wants it. If DDG pings it first time, he has an easy sweeped pass out to AWB.
- DDG then takes a scruffy touch, which means he has to take a few short steps before passing the ball. By the time he makes the pass, the opposition players are closer to Maguire.
- He then plays a slow bobbly pass, and its marginally behind Maguire too, who has to check back, turn his body, and wait for the ball to arrive. This ruins the prospect of passing it out to AWB. The opposition player who intercepts Maguires pass manages to take 6 steps towards Maguire in the time it takes the pass to arrive, showing how slow the ball was.
- With no pace on the ball, Maguire make his mistake in the move, which is that he simply tries to play the same pass. A good passer would have clipped it over and round the attacker or gone with his left foot instead and hooked it for a throw in, or even spoon it out for a corner near the flag.
- Instead, the attacker intercepts, and its in the net

This is where the opposition are when DDG gets the ball. This is where they are by the time Maguire gets the ball. That gap has shrunk so much because it took 3 seconds for DDG to play a simple 15 yard pass that should take 1/10th of a second.

Im not saying Maguire is blameless, since he brainlessly attempted to play a pass that was clearly no longer on, especially as the player who blocked it was in his eyeline. But while DDG was taking a poor touch and making a poor return, the opposition closed the pressing trap, which made a turnover highly likely by the time it reached Maguire.

 

[Sunny Jim]

He's suspended.

Thus his post in 100% correct.

 

[Anustart89]

The passs was "accurate", but that's not really the problem, it's the quality of that pass that is. Just kicking the ball at him does not make it a good pass.

Pass should have been zipped out to his left foot so he could turn into the space first time. It was slow, bobbly and to his wrong side. Maguire actually had to check his movement to try and deal with it. Put any amount of players in there and they will struggle to come out of there with the ball.

This is exactly the sort of finer detail that makes the difference between fcuking up and conceding a goal and just about beating that press and taking those 3 players out of the game. People can blame Maguire all they like, but if I'm Maguire I'd be giving that cnut an absolute ear full for putting me in the shit like that.

I doubt that, because Maguire signalled with his right hand that he wanted it to his right foot. It’s very obvious where he wants it when you look at it. If he’d got it to his left foot he wouldn’t have turned in the way we would’ve wanted him to do because he isn’t capable of that and he had no intention of doing that manoeuvre. He wanted it to his right foot, got it to his right foot and was completely unaware of his surroundings and played a weak pass along the ground when pressed by three players.

Had Maguire got the ball to his left foot and fecked it up everyone would be going “he wanted it to his right and got it to his left so de Gea’s pass left him wrong-footed and that’s the reason why he messed it up”

 

[romufc]

No one is debating whether Maguire is quick or good on the ball, though. The debate is whether DDG should have such a risky pass to an isolated CB under pressure. He of course shouldn't have. There is a tendency on this forum to think that because Maguire has been at fault other times, he's automatically the one at fault in every other situation.

Well there is clear and obvious evidence he is at fault. There is evidence from Betis game that a top passing CB can take that ball, Martinez clip has shown that.

Which is why Maguire is mainly at fault because we have seen a United player take the ball in the exact same position and beat a 3 man press.

 

[Anustart89]

Oh man, I think you should give up pretending to watch or understand football.

It's not passing to their weaker foot every time, it's to the back foot. Whether that is to the right foot or left foot is based on the body shape and position of the player receiving the ball.

It's literally one of the basic principles of what constitutes a good pass. It's one of the first things you should teach kids when they are 7 years old and focusing on making and receiving passes.

https://pdafootball.co.uk/receive-ball-inside-back-foot/




https://www.google.ie/amp/s/theathletic.com/3137291/2022/03/02/mount-foden-smith-rowe-how-receiving-on-the-back-foot-is-helping-english-players-thrive/?amp=1?espv=1

Now I know why people think some of these Utd players are good on the ball, don't know what being good on the ball looks like.

The problem with your posts is that you’re arguing from a theoretical perspective of what a good played would do. Yes, the pass to the back foot (in this case the left) would have meant he would’ve had the opportunity to take it on the half-turn and turn away from the press. However, Maguire pointed to his right foot, indicating that he had no intention of doing the thing you’re arguing that he should’ve done. So if de Gea had passed the ball to the foot that Maguire wasn’t pointing to, he would’ve been completely wrong-footed for his intended action (and we know how agile Maguire is…) and he would’ve had a go at de Gea for playing it where he didn’t want it.

The main issue is that Maguire doesn’t think or act like a ball-playing defender should and as such everyone has to adapt to that which causes panic and uncertainty in the team when he plays.

It’s also the case that had de Gea fizzed the ball at him and he fecked it up then everyone would be going “how the feck can he cannon it at him there??”.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I'm not saying this was the root of the problem last night but why does Maguire hold the ball so long until opponents close down the space and only then make the blatantly obvious pass leaving that player under much more pressure than was necessary? Players who do that at 5 a sides are assholes.

Because his brain doesn't work quick enough. It is probably that simple. The top CB's are thinking where they are going to pass it before the ball even gets to them. He gets the ball then does his thinking, which is another slow process.

 

[Fortitude]

How is there a debate about who was worse between De Gea and Maguire? The litany of errors they generate basically makes it a redundancy. It's like asking which eye is better to have stabbed out.

 

[SirScholes]

What is strange in all this is the people that seem to equate criticising DeGea's decision making and execution of a pass with letting Maguire off the hook or being absolved of blame?

Total nonsense, does anyone seriously believe Harry Maguire didn't mess up? I don't see that being argued because it would be totally ridiculous.

But saying DeGea messed up is simply calling a spade a spade. There were two cooks in this instance and to be honest whether it was 60% one or 50/50 or whatever ratio is rather arbitrary. If either of them had done their jobs correctly it wouldn't have happened, that's the bottom line.

Agreed
I wouldn’t expect that from Sunday league teams let alone elite pro level players
Either way both made a total balls up

 

[Oranges038]

The problem with your posts is that you’re arguing from a theoretical perspective of what a good played would do. Yes, the pass to the back foot (in this case the left) would have meant he would’ve had the opportunity to take it on the half-turn and turn away from the press. However, Maguire pointed to his right foot, indicating that he had no intention of doing the thing you’re arguing that he should’ve done. So if de Gea had passed the ball to the foot that Maguire wasn’t pointing to, he would’ve been completely wrong-footed for his intended action (and we know how agile Maguire is…) and he would’ve had a go at de Gea for playing it where he didn’t want it.

The main issue is that Maguire doesn’t think or act like a ball-playing defender should and as such everyone has to adapt to that which causes panic and uncertainty in the team when he plays.

It’s also the case that had de Gea fizzed the ball at him and he fecked it up then everyone would be going “how the feck can he cannon it at him there??”.

That other poster didn't know that "back foot" was a term used in football.

And of course it's theoretical, it's what should have happened. It's what happens every other week in loads of games, keeper plays the ball to his defender in the same situation, but plays it to his back foot and the direction he's moving. Not slow and behind him so that he has to stop and try and recover the situation. Maguire literally has to check his movement to get to the ball, so it wasn't played where he wanted it to be.

That's a simple pass for any professional footballer to execute, people laying that blame on Maguire are wrong in my opinion. The pass was shite, he panicked and tried to recover the situation and fecked up. Maguire doesn't point to his right foot to look for the ball there, that's nonsense, he uses his hands to show he wants the ball.

Both of them are to blame, but if DDG plays that pass correctly to his back foot where he was moving to and wanted it played, there's no problem he can turn with the ball and move into midfield.

 

[Zen86]

Well there is clear and obvious evidence he is at fault. There is evidence from Betis game that a top passing CB can take that ball, Martinez clip has shown that.

Which is why Maguire is mainly at fault because we have seen a United player take the ball in the exact same position and beat a 3 man press.

It's not the exact same position though is it.

 

[DJ_21]

Awful and can’t play under pressure. Seen a clip earlier of the same pass being played to martinez and he deals with it so much better and calmer.

 

[Marwood]

There seems to be a common theme with maguires big mistakes. They typically happen away from home, against a hostile crowd, who know they can get under his skin. He played pretty good more often than not when stadiums were empty. I think he’s just unable to deal with it, and probably needs to see a sports psychologist, at his next club.

I didn't even think he was all that bad. Others were worse. Casemiro, Sancho, Martial, Shaw etc.

But the guy is at a stage where trouble seems to find him. So he has that big horrible moment, sometimes not even his fault, where it goes badly wrong.

So I agree, has to move on and start fresh somewhere.

 

[Irwin99]

It feels like kicking a guy when he's down saying this but he's just as clumsy as Phil Jones ever was at injuring his own players; he's like a bull in a china shop in either of the boxes having whacked Ronaldo, Pogba, Shaw and now Sabitzer and Martial. Clumsiness or bad luck, you just can't help but shake your head.

 

[Nicoseth]

Would probably be much more sympathetic to him, but when he comes out with drivel like "I have nothing to prove" then that sympathy is gone. Shocking performance last night, not just as a player, but also as a captain - zero leadership, wilted in the cauldron of the Sanchez Pizjuan. Time to go in the summer - not even a question any more.