[Manoucha09]

Did extremely well defensively, but Liverpool never really threatened. You could argue that was because our whole back four did a great job cutting out any threat.

Annoying that we never really gave him a ball to attack from any of our set pieces. No idea what Bruno was trying today with his set pieces. I feel Maguire just needed one good delivery into the box and he would have had a great chance up against Fabinho and Henderson.

Overall though a good display from the captain.

 

[Grande]

One big wobble in the first half, but apart from that another good game. Now we have two well functioning CB duos. Hapoy days!

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Shouldn't you be watching videos of Koopmeiners instead of trying to be a wiseass? He was ok but nervy at times, don't be so ludicrously hyperbolic.

not gonna lie the Koop comment made me laugh!

He wasn’t nervy at all. He calmed things down drove into midfield and played some really good balls forward too. You are absolutely talking rubbish if you think he’s had a shaky game that was as solid a defensive performance from both him and Lindelof that you’ll see this weekend coming up against world class players they did really well.

 

[Devil may care]

not gonna lie the Koop comment made me laugh!

He wasn’t nervy at all. He calmed things down drove into midfield and played some really good balls forward too. You are absolutely talking rubbish if you think he’s had a shaky game that was as solid a defensive performance from both him and Lindelof that you’ll see this weekend coming up against world class players they did really well.

I think you might be his agent.

On the ball he wasn't as composed as he's been in the games with Bailly and it was visible when he brought it out, I said it was a decent defensive performance, you seemed to have ignored that bit, above you say it was a solid defensive performance, never said it wasn't, I'm talking about on the ball, and you said he was brilliant when he wasn't, decent and solid are the right adjectives, the only 2 players on the pitch who were brilliant were Shaw and Fabinho.

 

[Alemar]

When a team of Liverpool calibre doesn’t have a single open chance all game it means Maguire played well

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I think you might be his agent.

On the ball he wasn't as composed as he's been in the games with Bailly and it was visible when he brought it out, I said it was a decent defensive performance, you seemed to have ignored that bit, above you say it was a solid defensive performance, never said it wasn't, I'm talking about on the ball, and you said he was brilliant when he wasn't, decent and solid are the right adjectives, the only 2 players on the pitch who were brilliant were Shaw and Fabinho.

A few on here think I’m his dad.

I saw a more cautious approach from him today but do you not think that could have something to do with the world class pressing forwards he was dealing with?

Absolutely nothing to do with Lindelof that he wasn’t marauding forward on the ball and 100% to do with facing the best forwards in the league. He was sensibly cautious tonight and played the killer balls when appropriate.

Maguires composure on the ball is nothing to do with Lindelof so stop trying to criticise where there is no blame I thought both on and off the ball he was excellent because he played what was in front of him really well and was managing the game really well with Lindelof.

 

[cyberman]

First time Liverpool didnt score at Anfield since 18.
The one thing that is absolutely clear is that our defenders are magnificent at 1 on1 defending

 

[Devil may care]

A few on here think I’m his dad.

I saw a more cautious approach from him today but do you not think that could have something to do with the world class pressing forwards he was dealing with?

Absolutely nothing to do with Lindelof that he wasn’t marauding forward on the ball and 100% to do with facing the best forwards in the league. He was sensibly cautious tonight and played the killer balls when appropriate.

Maguires composure on the ball is nothing to do with Lindelof so stop trying to criticise where there is no blame I thought both on and off the ball he was excellent because he played what was in front of him really well and was managing the game really well with Lindelof.

You could be both!

This is a set of forwards that have been massively out of form and we had our fullbacks tucked in for extra protection, if Bailly had been there he could have done more on the ball knowing he had the cover required for the central ball over the top, even Neville acknowledged this. It's clear as day that we play deeper and invite pressure when Maguire and Lindelof are the pairing, it's not criticising it's just a fact, we're a better all round team when Maguire has a partner that compliments him. Bailly starting and Pogba central would have given us more control and less reliance on the counter

 

[United58]

First time Liverpool didnt score at Anfield since 18.
The one thing that is absolutely clear is that our defenders are magnificent at 1 on1 defending

Actually think it's a slight weakness of Maguire; Lindelof is much superior there. Maguire makes up for Lindelof's lack of aerial dominance

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

At a time when Martial Rashford and Bruno are all out of form and we're struggling a bit to score goals it's great that Maguire and Shaw and Bailly and even Lindelof today have all improved.

Not conceding many at the minute

 

[lex talionis]

Maguire the Magnificent, or at least a magnificent performance at Anfield.

 

[Sylar]

He had one lax moment on the ball in the first half, where it seemed like he took an eternity to try and do a switch out to the right and it got closed down.
But overall he was really good and has been for a while.

Hes put that early season blip behind him and has been, once again, a mainstay in our defence. Its good we can rely on him to be there, fit and available. And mostly good on the ball too.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

You could be both!

This is a set of forwards that have been massively out of form and we had our fullbacks tucked in for extra protection, if Bailly had been there he could have done more on the ball knowing he had the cover required for the central ball over the top, even Neville acknowledged this. It's clear as day that we play deeper and invite pressure when Maguire and Lindelof are the pairing, it's not criticising it's just a fact, we're a better all round team when Maguire has a partner that compliments him. Bailly starting and Pogba central would have given us more control and less reliance on the counter

We played tactically correctly. Pressing up higher creates space which those forwards thrive on. We were unlucky to not get 3 points yesterday as a result of our solid defensive display.

No it’s clear that against opposition that want to get in behind with space we drop deep. We still pressed up the pitch later in the game and I believe in 2020 season we were only allowing 11.6 passes per defensive action for context Liverpool is 10.4 so we’re actually amongst the best pressing sides in the league and who were our defenders in this period? Maguire and Lindelof. So I really don’t buy into the idea we cant do it with them because we have at least been doing it throughout 2020.

 

[A-man]

You could be both!

This is a set of forwards that have been massively out of form and we had our fullbacks tucked in for extra protection, if Bailly had been there he could have done more on the ball knowing he had the cover required for the central ball over the top, even Neville acknowledged this. It's clear as day that we play deeper and invite pressure when Maguire and Lindelof are the pairing, it's not criticising it's just a fact, we're a better all round team when Maguire has a partner that compliments him. Bailly starting and Pogba central would have given us more control and less reliance on the counter

I think you strongly over estimate Baillys abilities and the influence he has on the way out team plays. Don’t get me wrong, he’s played well in a handful matches and I am sure he will get more chances to start during the season, but it’s not like he’s transformed the team or anything. In fact we barely grinded out victories against 3 lesser teams and were not even close to dominate them. We created as much chances against Burnley as we did against Liverpool.

 

[Devil may care]

We played tactically correctly. Pressing up higher creates space which those forwards thrive on. We were unlucky to not get 3 points yesterday as a result of our solid defensive display.

No it’s clear that against opposition that want to get in behind with space we drop deep. We still pressed up the pitch later in the game and I believe in 2020 season we were only allowing 11.6 passes per defensive action for context Liverpool is 10.4 so we’re actually amongst the best pressing sides in the league and who were our defenders in this period? Maguire and Lindelof. So I really don’t buy into the idea we cant do it with them because we have at least been doing it throughout 2020.

We had our best passer of the ball out of position because we need the McFred combination to sit deep in front of the Maguire and Lindelof partnership because they have no pace between them, and in turn there's a disconnect between or midfield 2 and front 4, when Bailly plays we start 10 yards higher and it gels better as a team, stats are so easily misused, I trust the eye test. When we play the team we did yesterday we limit ourselves to the counter, put Bailly in and we can play Pogba or Matic in the double pivot to improve the linkage of the team.

I think you strongly over estimate Baillys abilities and the influence he has on the way out team plays. Don’t get me wrong, he’s played well in a handful matches and I am sure he will get more chances to start during the season, but it’s not like he’s transformed the team or anything. In fact we barely grinded out victories against 3 lesser teams and were not even close to dominate them. We created as much chances against Burnley as we did against Liverpool.

Burnley play with a back 9, we had the bulk of the ball and patiently picked them open. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Bailly is the long term solution with Maguire, but he allows us to play more on the front foot than Lindelof.

 

[b20times]

Firstly I'm not a fan of him. It wasn't his fault he cost 80m, I'll give him that but he just doesn't fill you with confidence.
Commanding.
Strong.
Both yes but his positioning and his playing out from the back are shocking. Of course we wasn't getting a Rio or Japp who could play from the back and look comfortable on the ball but Maguire looks jittery half the time in my opinion
How many times does he pass it out of play or finds their man with a pass? Luckily Liverpool's front three are going through a lull and look very heavy legged which in hindsight was a saving grace for Harry. Sorry but he's just not my cup of tea.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

We had our best passer of the ball out of position because we need the McFred combination to sit deep in front of the Maguire and Lindelof partnership because they have no pace between them, and in turn there's a disconnect between or midfield 2 and front 4, when Bailly plays we start 10 yards higher and it gels better as a team, stats are so easily misused, I trust the eye test. When we play the team we did yesterday we limit ourselves to the counter, put Bailly in and we can play Pogba or Matic in the double pivot to improve the linkage of the team.

Pogba played wide right so we had a tactical advantage of an output in wide areas for long balls that could be contested more easily. It worked.

McFred was a sensible decision because Matic would get overran by Salah, Mane, Firmino, Shaqiri and Thiago operating in pockets of space.

Lindelof is not slow does not lack pace and the only time his pace was tested was again Mane and guess what he matched him stride for stride or is Mane now slow? Please stop with the false narratives of slow Lindelof he’s quick and hasn’t been beaten in a foot race this season. You say you trust the eye test well if you can’t see him matching these fast players then clearly a different kind of eye test is appropriate here.

When Bailly plays we absolutely do not start 10 yards higher up the pitch. What a ridiculous claim to make. Where is your proof surely you can find the stat that shows that but I guarantee the only time we play higher is against weaker sides.

The stat I provided is impossible to misuse it is the average number of opposing passes before a defensive action. That is essentially how long we go without a press on average in a game. I cannot manipulate the stat I can only observe it and apply it how else would you apply that stat?

Put Pogba and Matic in a double pivot and we have a CAF today full of moaners that the midfield was too slow and we would have lost. Ole got the tactics spot on and the choice to play Lindelof too.

 

[Devil may care]

Pogba played wide right so we had a tactical advantage of an output in wide areas for long balls that could be contested more easily. It worked.

McFred was a sensible decision because Matic would get overran by Salah, Mane, Firmino, Shaqiri and Thiago operating in pockets of space.

Lindelof is not slow does not lack pace and the only time his pace was tested was again Mane and guess what he matched him stride for stride or is Mane now slow? Please stop with the false narratives of slow Lindelof he’s quick and hasn’t been beaten in a foot race this season. You say you trust the eye test well if you can’t see him matching these fast players then clearly a different kind of eye test is appropriate here.

When Bailly plays we absolutely do not start 10 yards higher up the pitch. What a ridiculous claim to make. Where is your proof surely you can find the stat that shows that but I guarantee the only time we play higher is against weaker sides.

The stat I provided is impossible to misuse it is the average number of opposing passes before a defensive action. That is essentially how long we go without a press on average in a game. I cannot manipulate the stat I can only observe it and apply it how else would you apply that stat?

Put Pogba and Matic in a double pivot and we have a CAF today full of moaners that the midfield was too slow and we would have lost. Ole got the tactics spot on and the choice to play Lindelof too.

You've written a lot of stuff here that is an opinion just stated as fact, if you can't see we are starting higher when Bailly plays or that we have more control when we have someone in the double pivot who can pass or that Lindelof is too slow then i guess me and Neville must both be blind, you were happy with what we did yesterday, I'm pleased for you, to me we were too disjointed because we didn't use Bailly and at least one of the midfielders that can pass in the double pivot, Pogba out on the side he doesn't favour was clearly diminishing his ability to really impact the game. I said it was a decent point given the home record Liverpool have, but they were there to be taken if Ole had been a bit braver and took more risks, I wouldn't have moaned if it had cost us 3 points, it was worth the risk imo, and maybe the Caf would have had lots of moaning but I don't give a shit about that as I don't have to read it.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

You've written a lot of stuff here that is an opinion just stated as fact, if you can't see we are starting higher when Bailly plays or that we have more control when we have someone in the double pivot who can pass or that Lindelof is too slow then i guess me and Neville must both be blind, you were happy with what we did yesterday, I'm pleased for you, to me we were too disjointed because we didn't use Bailly and at least one of the midfielders that can pass in the double pivot, Pogba out on the side he doesn't favour was clearly diminishing his ability to really impact the game. I said it was a decent point given the home record Liverpool have, but they were there to be taken if Ole had been a bit braver and took more risks, I wouldn't have moaned if it had cost us 3 points, it was worth the risk imo, and maybe the Caf would have had lots of moaning but I don't give a shit about that as I don't have to read it.

I can see against smaller sides we start higher but not 10 yards everytime Bailly plays thats a load of codswallop and you know it.

Pogba on the right was a tactical choice. Facht.

McFred being a good choice. Facht we didn’t concede.

Lindelof not being slow and keeping up with Mane a universally accepted fast player. FACHT.

We don’t start 10 yards higher with Bailly. Facht.

We do press amongst the best in the league with Maguire and Lindelof. Facht

Pogba and Matic being overran. Opinion. I’ll give you that.

 

[Devil may care]

I can see against smaller sides we start higher but not 10 yards everytime Bailly plays thats a load of codswallop and you know it.

Pogba on the right was a tactical choice. Facht.

McFred being a good choice. Facht we didn’t concede.

Lindelof not being slow and keeping up with Mane a universally accepted fast player. FACHT.

We don’t start 10 yards higher with Bailly. Facht.

We do press amongst the best in the league with Maguire and Lindelof. Facht

Pogba and Matic being overran. Opinion. I’ll give you that.

Ok Rafa, I recall your debate with Adnan where you tried this same tiring tactic of being condescending and subversive, Pogba on the right was a choice that wasted his attributes. fact. McTominay and Fred both in midfield was a coward choice, fact. Bailly's pace allows us to play a higher line. fact, Carrick once won a foot race vs Aguero, the one ball over the top we faced required AWB to save the day, fact. Bottom line is you were happy we set up to draw with the counter as our only hope of scoring, I think it was a decent point but this was a Liverpool side out of form and with a couple of tweaks I think we could have taken the game on more and gave ourselves a better chance of winning.

 

[Floyd]

Firstly I'm not a fan of him. It wasn't his fault he cost 80m, I'll give him that but he just doesn't fill you with confidence.
Commanding.
Strong.
Both yes but his positioning and his playing out from the back are shocking. Of course we wasn't getting a Rio or Japp who could play from the back and look comfortable on the ball but Maguire looks jittery half the time in my opinion
How many times does he pass it out of play or finds their man with a pass? Luckily Liverpool's front three are going through a lull and look very heavy legged which in hindsight was a saving grace for Harry. Sorry but he's just not my cup of tea.

Harry is shocking playing out from the back? You sure you're talking about our no 5, Harry Maguire? He's really good with the ball at his feet, playing out from the back. Check out Bruno's chance on Sunday and see who started the move with a magnificent pass.

 

[Jim Beam]

Harry is shocking playing out from the back? You sure you're talking about our no 5, Harry Maguire? He's really good with the ball at his feet, playing out from the back. Check out Bruno's chance on Sunday and see who started the move with a magnificent pass.

He is everything, but not shocking playing from the back. Some people are clueless...

 

[Solius]

He's been fantastic recently as well. Barely put a foot wrong.

 

[dal]

In our last 5 premier league games we’ve not conceded in four of them.

Our solidity at the back has enabled us to grind out results. Harry is a leader out there as he brings a level up of composure which helps the entire back line.

At the end of the city game I even saw AWB making good decisions and driving forward with the ball.

Shaw, Bailly, Lindelof, Maguire, AWB. Very solid options, it will get better and better I feel and AWB will get better going forward as the rapport builds, the signs are already there.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Ok Rafa, I recall your debate with Adnan where you tried this same tiring tactic of being condescending and subversive, Pogba on the right was a choice that wasted his attributes. fact. McTominay and Fred both in midfield was a coward choice, fact. Bailly's pace allows us to play a higher line. fact, Carrick once won a foot race vs Aguero, the one ball over the top we faced required AWB to save the day, fact. Bottom line is you were happy we set up to draw with the counter as our only hope of scoring, I think it was a decent point but this was a Liverpool side out of form and with a couple of tweaks I think we could have taken the game on more and gave ourselves a better chance of winning.

Not at all trying to be condescending was actually being light hearted and I don’t think subversive is the right word here? Do you think you are some kind of higher power that plucky old me is trying to do away with?

Disagreeing with someone and providing a contrasting view is no more subversive and condescending than anything you’ve said back and Adnan and I often agree with one another and don’t believe there is any ill feeling there, certainly not on my part.

I have provided facts from the game and other areas.

Now I completely agree with additional pace in a side it can give you more confidence to move up the pitch but you didn’t say that initially you said it moves us 10 yards up, which as we both know isn’t true of our team this season. This doesn’t happen because of Bailly it happens because when he plays we’re the dominant side or at least on paper should be. However I think this could happen in future for United as we dominate more and more just not in these big games it’s never really been our style even under Sir Alex.

Judging a defensive line when playing against a side where we have never dominated or never really taken the game to them historically is ludicrous in my mind.

I think Pogba created a good chance coming in from the right side where he could have scored. He got the space to run into because he was moving from a wide position but Alison blocked it. Playing him deeper I don’t see that chance occurring.

Can you show me any occasion in our history where we went to Liverpool and dominated them beyond as Gary Neville pointed out the LVG game?

I absolutely felt at the start of the game this was the right decision made by Solskjaer in terms of personnel and tactics. Trying to go toe to toe with Liverpool was less likely to run in our favour see the most recent Man City game where we tried to establish ourselves but were just not quite there yet. Incredibly close but not quite.

The thing is I genuinely don’t think our views are so far apart. There is an element in me that feels we might’ve snatched another 2 points were we luckier but in the grand scheme of the season I think it was right to be cautious because we have Fulham next game where we can get our 3 points. Maybe I’m pessimistic or realistic about where our side is at the moment I think we’re a good side but we’re one season away from being a title winning one and that was reflected in our performance.

I like many fans seeing Henderson and Fabinho was encouraged that we would either draw or win the game. Before seeing the line up I saw it as a draw or lose game.

 

[Hammondo]

I can see against smaller sides we start higher but not 10 yards everytime Bailly plays thats a load of codswallop and you know it.

Pogba on the right was a tactical choice. Facht.

McFred being a good choice. Facht we didn’t concede.

Lindelof not being slow and keeping up with Mane a universally accepted fast player. FACHT.

We don’t start 10 yards higher with Bailly. Facht.

We do press amongst the best in the league with Maguire and Lindelof. Facht

Pogba and Matic being overran. Opinion. I’ll give you that.

I don't think we do press well at all. I would say average in the league.

 

[MUFromLTU]

Still have no clue how can he play each game without rest for so long, but long may it continue.

Each year, right about now, we'd be in CB crisis and would need to rotate players nearly every game. So happy we don't have that problem this year thanks to Harry (and Spider).

 

[Hammondo]

Ok Rafa, I recall your debate with Adnan where you tried this same tiring tactic of being condescending and subversive, Pogba on the right was a choice that wasted his attributes. fact. McTominay and Fred both in midfield was a coward choice, fact. Bailly's pace allows us to play a higher line. fact, Carrick once won a foot race vs Aguero, the one ball over the top we faced required AWB to save the day, fact. Bottom line is you were happy we set up to draw with the counter as our only hope of scoring, I think it was a decent point but this was a Liverpool side out of form and with a couple of tweaks I think we could have taken the game on more and gave ourselves a better chance of winning.

I think Fred + mctominay was the only reasonable midfield we could have made. I think it saves us often.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I don't think we do press well at all. I would say average in the league.

Statistically speaking we only allow 1 more pass per defensive action than Liverpool.

At the risk of being condescending the PPDA stat was measured to highlight teams that put other teams under pressure more regularly on average through pressing. The higher the stat the less defensive pressure applied in an average game.

It’s a solid measure of a teams pressing nature although high volume doesn’t always equal quality I think when you see the PL results it’s hard to argue it’s not accurate at least:

1. Leeds 8.59
2. Southampton 10.16
3. Liverpool 10.40
4. Chelsea 10.90
5. Manchester City 11.00
6. Leicester City 11.18
7. Manchester United 11.60

While Leeds are clearly (and obviously to anyone observing) more proactive in their defensive actions Manchester United have closed the gap significantly on Liverpool.

An average PL side sits (Median) around 13.5 with the lowest being 18.01 (Newcastle).

So it is statistically significant that we are 2 better than the average and one below Liverpool. That would not suggest an average side.

Of course you can try and argue the quality of the press but again unless you watch regularly the teams with statistically higher PPDA and lower it’s almost impossible for you to make that claim convincingly.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Imagine keeping a clean sheet away at Anfield with the only shots on goal being routine saves from outside the 18 and having some "supporters" who still complain that Maguire isn't good enough. The agenda on some of you is next level...

 

[Hammondo]

Statistically speaking we only allow 1 more pass per defensive action than Liverpool.

At the risk of being condescending the PPDA stat was measured to highlight teams that put other teams under pressure more regularly on average through pressing. The higher the stat the less defensive pressure applied in an average game.

It’s a solid measure of a teams pressing nature although high volume doesn’t always equal quality I think when you see the PL results it’s hard to argue it’s not accurate at least:

1. Leeds 8.59
2. Southampton 10.16
3. Liverpool 10.40
4. Chelsea 10.90
5. Manchester City 11.00
6. Leicester City 11.18
7. Manchester United 11.60

While Leeds are clearly (and obviously to anyone observing) more proactive in their defensive actions Manchester United have closed the gap significantly on Liverpool.

An average PL side sits (Median) around 13.5 with the lowest being 18.01 (Newcastle).

So it is statistically significant that we are 2 better than the average and one below Liverpool. That would not suggest an average side.

Of course you can try and argue the quality of the press but again unless you watch regularly the teams with statistically higher PPDA and lower it’s almost impossible for you to make that claim convincingly.

So you are saying we are close to Liverpool in a statistic that represents the defensive actions per opponent passing?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

So you are saying we are close to Liverpool in a statistic that represents the defensive actions per opponent passing?

Yes. Which currently is the best metric to measure pressing volume at least. If opponents are making less passes per tackle, foul etc the they are being pressured mor

Pressing quality I can’t find any suitable metrics on my software so we can use this as an indication of a teams propensity for a press but not the exact quality of it. However when you see the best sides also tend to line up with the widely considered best pressers I think there is enough evidence to suggest a reasonable correlation between the two.

 

[Hammondo]

Yes. Which currently is the best metric to measure pressing volume at least. If opponents are making less passes per tackle, foul etc the they are being pressured mor

Pressing quality I can’t find any suitable metrics on my software so we can use this as an indication of a teams propensity for a press but not the exact quality of it. However when you see the best sides also tend to line up with the widely considered best pressers I think there is enough evidence to suggest a reasonable correlation between the two.

What constitutes a defensive action?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

What constitutes a defensive action?

Tackles
Interceptions
Challenges (failed tackle)
Fouls

Essentially anything that can be seen as an attempt to regain ball possession or disrupt opponents possession.

Lower PPDA means the opponent is not allowed to pass much before being tackled/intercepted/challenged/fouled.

 

[Hammondo]

Tackles
Interceptions
Challenges (failed tackle)
Fouls

Essentially anything that can be seen as an attempt to regain ball possession or disrupt opponents possession.

Lower PPDA means the opponent is not allowed to pass much before being tackled/intercepted/challenged/fouled.

Yea then I think it comes down to quality of the pressing then, as when we played them we lost the press battle instantly.

 

[Devil may care]

Not at all trying to be condescending was actually being light hearted and I don’t think subversive is the right word here? Do you think you are some kind of higher power that plucky old me is trying to do away with?

Disagreeing with someone and providing a contrasting view is no more subversive and condescending than anything you’ve said back and Adnan and I often agree with one another and don’t believe there is any ill feeling there, certainly not on my part.

No, if .i was a higher power I'd not have been banned several times already.

Several times you've flat out said I'm making things up, to me that isn't enticing me to debate as we have no room to go, as far as how Adnan feels I don't speak for him, I know he's not particularly a fan of Bailly over Lindelof, I simply recall the first time I saw you was arguing with him about Koopmeiners.

I have provided facts from the game and other areas.

Now I completely agree with additional pace in a side it can give you more confidence to move up the pitch but you didn’t say that initially you said it moves us 10 yards up, which as we both know isn’t true of our team this season. This doesn’t happen because of Bailly it happens because when he plays we’re the dominant side or at least on paper should be. However I think this could happen in future for United as we dominate more and more just not in these big games it’s never really been our style even under Sir Alex.

Judging a defensive line when playing against a side where we have never dominated or never really taken the game to them historically is ludicrous in my mind.

I think Pogba created a good chance coming in from the right side where he could have scored. He got the space to run into because he was moving from a wide position but Alison blocked it. Playing him deeper I don’t see that chance occurring.

Can you show me any occasion in our history where we went to Liverpool and dominated them beyond as Gary Neville pointed out the LVG game?

I absolutely felt at the start of the game this was the right decision made by Solskjaer in terms of personnel and tactics. Trying to go toe to toe with Liverpool was less likely to run in our favour see the most recent Man City game where we tried to establish ourselves but were just not quite there yet. Incredibly close but not quite.

The thing is I genuinely don’t think our views are so far apart. There is an element in me that feels we might’ve snatched another 2 points were we luckier but in the grand scheme of the season I think it was right to be cautious because we have Fulham next game where we can get our 3 points. Maybe I’m pessimistic or realistic about where our side is at the moment I think we’re a good side but we’re one season away from being a title winning one and that was reflected in our performance.

I like many fans seeing Henderson and Fabinho was encouraged that we would either draw or win the game. Before seeing the line up I saw it as a draw or lose game.

I don't think playing a higher line with Bailly is just about to who we play, this is something both Carragher and Neville have pointed out and many fans on here have noted, Lindelof and Maguire are not a good fit, they need too much protection, Bailly adds a safety net as the big teams are not the only ones with pacey threats in behind.

I never cared for how we played Liverpool at Anfield under Fergie in the latter years, we got less cavalier in those latter days, same as I didn't like our approach to European away games in those days, I want to see us going at every team to boss them, like the best teams are doing.

With that being said had we been playing an in form Liverpool in front of a packed Anfield bearpit with the team we currently have, I'd have taken zero issues with our tepid approach. This though was an out of form Liverpool in an empty stadium, I think if we'd been a bit bolder we could have won, that's the crux of it, I favour risk, you favour pragmatism as Ole did and if you look at my first post after the game I said it's a decent point as long as we beat Fulham.

Where we do agree is that I agree we aren't a team ready to win a PL, we are still 3 players short, we are showing improvements all over but as long as we get top 4 I won't be too disappointed, Ole has done really well without full transfer backing

 

[Devil may care]

I think Fred + mctominay was the only reasonable midfield we could have made. I think it saves us often.

It also makes it hard to control the game and link defense and attack, it's riskier playing Pogba in there without doubt, but risk vs reward is part of management.

 

[Hammondo]

It also makes it hard to control the game and link defense and attack, it's riskier playing Pogba in there without doubt, but risk vs reward is part of management.

Yea I agree and clearly they have been making the right choices.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Yea then I think it comes down to quality of the pressing then, as when we played them we lost the press battle instantly.

In which case we’ll just have to disagree slightly as I think our quality is much better with Bruno as a trigger albeit I don’t know enough about every other side from purely watching them.

We absolutely could press better than we do though and I think we will next season with improved personnel

No, if .i was a higher power I'd not have been banned several times already.

Several times you've flat out said I'm making things up, to me that isn't enticing me to debate as we have no room to go, as far as how Adnan feels I don't speak for him, I know he's not particularly a fan of Bailly over Lindelof, I simply recall the first time I saw you was arguing with him about Koopmeiners.




I don't think playing a higher line with Bailly is just about to who we play, this is something both Carragher and Neville have pointed out and many fans on here have noted, Lindelof and Maguire are not a good fit, they need too much protection, Bailly adds a safety net as the big teams are not the only ones with pacey threats in behind.

I never cared for how we played Liverpool at Anfield under Fergie in the latter years, we got less cavalier in those latter days, same as I didn't like our approach to European away games in those days, I want to see us going at every team to boss them, like the best teams are doing.

With that being said had we been playing an in form Liverpool in front of a packed Anfield bearpit with the team we currently have, I'd have taken zero issues with our tepid approach. This though was an out of form Liverpool in an empty stadium, I think if we'd been a bit bolder we could have won, that's the crux of it, I favour risk, you favour pragmatism as Ole did and if you look at my first post after the game I said it's a decent point as long as we beat Fulham.

Where we do agree is that I agree we aren't a team ready to win a PL, we are still 3 players short, we are showing improvements all over but as long as we get top 4 I won't be too disappointed, Ole has done really well without full transfer backing

The things that you have made up yes I will call you out on.

Interestingly the first time we argued over Koop I was strongly in favour and Adnan has since shown a greater appreciation for Koop. Just saying...

I think if we had a different midfield with a proper DM then we could explore different CB options but with the squad as it stands they are a great pairing as they compliment the players we have.

Weve rarely if ever been caught in behind with Maguire and Lindelof and I would love a player that is a mix of Bailly and Lindelof but we have a choice of a solid fit Lindelof or a solid but less fit Bailly which is a key issue for me. I want a CB pairing to last most of a season together. I’m a huge fan of Bailly but he can’t stay fit and so it’s like having a Ferrari that keeps breaking down. I’d love to drive it but if I still need to get to work I’ll drive a different car.

The reason we didn’t is because we didn’t have the side to do so.

I completely see where you’re coming from on the take the risk approach and part of me would have loved us to go for it but a bigger part of me realises this game won’t be a title decider it will be maintaining over a longer period 2 points per game. Win against Fulham and we’re back on track.

Yeah out of interest where do you see us needing those extra 3 players (we’ve found common ground here I feel)

 

[Devil may care]

Yea I agree and clearly they have been making the right choices.

On this occasion I'm not so sure, an empty Anfield, Liverpool's front 3 not firing, there was blood in the water but we were a Dolphin rather than a Shark.