Lewandowski does not tear it up internationally. neither did Tevez, Aguero, even messi has had forgettable tournaments. I dont see how the international teams are "real opposition". the group stage teams are pretty terrible and the standard of teams have declined from my day. Rooney flopped in nearly all tournaments but was rated one of the best of his era by almost everyone. Gerrard, Lampard etc have been voted for by the FOOTBALL WORLD as some of the best of their era. Kaka never really shone in any tournament. fact is, post season tournaments are hard and you need a bit of luck and good form. Doesn't mean you should not get excited over club stars.
Harry Kane MBE | Performances
- Thread starter Samid
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This is why international success should never be taken into consideration when discussing the greatness of a current player. It just isn't frequent enough.
Sanchez certainly thinks so.Do you say the same for Ozil and Sanchez?
He is currently my favourite non-United player after Dybala. Such a complete goal scorer, and has great technical ability too, can find a pass, lay it off for team mates, score from tight angles. Maybe he does lack in pace, but who will care if he keeps on doing his job so utterly well.
Benzema's replacement?
Benzema's replacement?
I don't buy this nonsense about having to score goals in the CL or international tournaments to be world class. Half the teams you face will be of a lower standard than your average PL side, certainly in International football.
Kane has scored a ridiculous number of goals consistently in an incredibly tough league so harder to argue that he isn't WC in my opinion
Kane has scored a ridiculous number of goals consistently in an incredibly tough league so harder to argue that he isn't WC in my opinion
I do feel you need to be more than just a domestic league goal scorer to be world class. I think thats fair. No league can be considered the world stage. Theres a game every week, and you have many opportunities to come back. in some cases you win 30/38 games (Chelsea). thats a cake walk. I feel Europe and International are bigger stages, more pressure and less recovery opportunities so it counts big.
I think of you were honest if Kane was playing for United, you would easily say he was world class.
Four season wonder.
Certainly not overrated like his team mate Dele Alli.
I disagree. I think to be considered "world class" you have to perform in the big stages against the best players, that's the only way to determine whether a player is truly one of the best in the world at his position. Kane hasn't really had the chance to do that apart from the Euros where he was pretty bad.
He has the opportunity this year with Spurs being in the CL but you can't call him world class until he proves it.
The last few years of the EPL can't be a metric as the quality of league has dropped dramatically from 5-6 years ago when English teams were really thriving in Europe and the standard was very high.
It's same reason why I think people calling Lukaku world class is ridiculous.
Alli's superb as well, just had a fairly poor start to the season.
When you actually read what our saying you have to realise what your saying is bollocks, are you saying scoring against Wales, Slovakia and Russia is like scoring against the top four in England? Come on mate.
The truth is English managers are simply tactically inept compared to Wold managers, never mind the fact the majority of English players simply aren't committed enough to perform at a world stage. I mean are you seriously saying Shearer wasn't a world class striker?
This is a difficult standard to hold Kane to though because you're essentially judging him off of a sample of about nine or ten games if that's the case. He played a limited number in the CL last season and featured in only a few games at the Euros.
The Premier League is a big stage; it's one of the best leagues in the world and Kane's been one of its best performers for the past three seasons now.
Obviously performing in a multitude of competitions, especially the CL, improve and consolidate your status as a world class player, but it's unfair to rule someone out on the basis of a select number of games when they've been performing at an incredibly high standard in the competition in which they play the vast majority of their matches.
And the thing is that Kane now has performed in Europe; so far he's been superb, and barring a collapse you'd fancy Spurs to progress to the last 16 at the very least. If they do then it'll be in large part to Kane.
Well said.
There is a serious tournament every two years and that lasts for about a month if the player is lucky.
Injuries, bad luck, etc. Play a big part.
Either way, Kane is superb. England always have a handful of very good to exceptional players. As consistently as any nation in the last thirty years, in fact.
Water thin margins decide success at the international level. The amount of times England could have had cup glory but for one missed penalty/offside or onside goal/referee blunder... is numerous.
100%
Just curious, if at all there's a chance we can sign him, can we have him and Lukaku as two up top?
I hope he never joins one of City, Chelsea or Pool.
And it's simply coincidence that England are the only big international team that have not even made it to a major tournament final or World Cup third place game in the last 20 years?
Brazil won 2002 World Cup, were in the 1998 final and third place game at the last tournament. Also did well at Copa America numerous times. Argentina were in the final and have won Copa America and Olympics. Netherlands were in WC final in 2010 and took third place in 2014. Germany won World Cup in 2014, were in Euro 2008 final, won numerous third place games and were involved in many semifinals. Spain basically dominated football for 4 years. Italy won 2006 World Cup and reached Euro 2012 final. France won World Cup and Euro, reached World Cup final and European Championship final. Portugal won Euro and reached one Euro final and one third place World Cup game. A lot of much smaller teams have done significantly better than England: Uruguay, Chile, Greece, even Wales recently have done more at international level than England at any point over the last TWENTY years. If you go back to 1998 and look at about 20 tournaments that have taken place since then, England have not even reached a semifinal once.
Bad luck might excuse a few times over a course of 20 years, not every single time for 10 tournaments in a row when EVERYONE else has done much better during that period. I mean, since 1996 Euro which took place in England, not even a single time England were among top 4 teams at the tournament. I suspect there are at least 15 teams that have made it to the best 4 during that period, comfortably, just counting Euro and World Cups.
Can Kane surpass Rooney?
He's not. He's average and one of the most overrated players in the league.
I agree with this to some extent but Alli is not average he's a good young player that has been way over hyped as a goal scoring midfielder when in reality he plays as a double striker. Don't get me wrong he's not got the tools a Gerrard had but he could become a Lampard in time. I'd love him at OT but would take Kane over him all day long plus there are midfielders with lower profiles that are just as good.
Not sure about that most great players nowadays near 100 caps.
And how many of those caps are against proper opposition? Not many I can guarantee.. Rooney being England's all time top scorer is proof that international stats more or less mean nothing.
Have you forgotten how genuinely good Rooney was?
it can't be long before Barca or Real put in a huge bid for him
amazing how people are still having a go at Rooney. Have to laugh
Not at all, but post 2006 he fell short when it mattered ie the big tournaments, hence proving my point earlier.
It's still fair to say he didn't perform in crunch situations for his national team, and most of his goals came in the qualifiers. I think the point that was made is not to claim Rooney wasn't amazing (which he was), but rather that to use international performances as a 'must' to measure a players ability is sub-optimal.
Right. Didn't see it from that pov, fair point.
That's a rather harsh assessement all things considered. He was either injured or recovering from injury in practically every major tournament England were involved in. It became a recurring theme in the end; major International tourney around the corner? Time for a new injury to Rooney, specifically that damned metatarsal that he was so fond of busting.
Yet despite the numerous setbacks, he still managed to break Sir Bobby's record. Speak volumes for his ability, no?
You haven't even read what I wrote! He has to do it against the top teams to be considered world class. The EPL isn't the best league anymore.
There are plenty of players who rack up goals domestically, would they be world class as well? Players like Dzeko, Mertans, Dost and Aubameyang.
He's also our all time top scorer, guess that means nothing too? The international stage will always count. In every league there are very mediocre sides with very mediocre players that players can and do score lots of goals against. One thing the international stage doesn't have is extremely stacked teams as you can't go around and purchase every one from around the world if you're a big country.
Your basically saying to be world class you have to play for the best world teams? It's absolute nonsense. Right not if Harry was playing for United you would have absolutely no problem saying he was world class.
Levy must be laughing all the way to the bank ......he's got the top striker in the prem and paying him less than half his worth.
Kane needs to tell Levy he wants at least £250k week or its "goodnight Vienna I'm off" .....hopefully to Utd.
Kane needs to tell Levy he wants at least £250k week or its "goodnight Vienna I'm off" .....hopefully to Utd.
....although given past history, there's absolutely no chance Levy would let Kane go to Utd.
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Why does Harry need to do that?
How close were Spurs to letting him go after his loan spells?
Nobody should be silly enough to let an employer pay them less than the going rate.
It's not Kane's fault wages are so crazy.
No idea to be honest but we were probably starting to lose patience, bloody glad we didn't.
The "going rate", surely if Kane is happy that's all that matters? If anything his stance should be applauded rather than every fan and pundit trying to sell him to someone else? A player who loves a club and wants to stay rather than a want away spoiled brat, kicking up a stink and looking like a tool? Maybe my view point is slightly different though
. I mean does no one else see it, pundits and media saying one one hand transfer fees and wages are stupid blah blah, then on the other hand all saying Kane should be paid more than the £100-£150K a week he is already on. I'm pretty sure if Kane wanted more money he is big enough to ask for it himself.You really are having difficulties to read, for the 3rd time he has do it against the best teams and best players, not play for them. You can't call him world class until he proves it.