Thank you, you too. I will definitely take part in the next one. I have a better idea of what the voters are looking for now. This is actually a lot of fun. It's refreshing to talk about football with people who actually know their stuff. I wasn't expecting many would have heard of Bene and was pleasantly suprised.
Harms/Joga vs Oaencha - Tactical Draft
- Thread starter Šjor Bepo
- Start date
Nothing wrong with high expectations but I feel they are not unrealistic. Both are capable of pulling it off.Thanks for the answers. I've understood. High expectations
I don’t understand the debate GOATs vs non-GOATs to accompany the central figure. Highlight the players you like in connection with the central figure.
The debates should have been focused on the offensive strategies: choices, mechanics and harmony.
The debates should have been focused on the offensive strategies: choices, mechanics and harmony.
The opposite, if it's long I sure as hell don't read it. If it's short, yes, the first writeup has a higher probability of being read.
It also depends on who starts the gamethread, I always put the teamsheets first and writeups after to avoid all the scrolling down and back up.
There was no debate there as far as Elkjaer was concerned, that's how it ended up being about who shines the most. I agree @Oaencha wound up having a raging discussion on his defence and very little regarding Netzer (which was my issue, it clearly didn't look constructed around Netzer but around pulling off some bizarre defensive setup).
Unlucky mate really appreciated your unorthodox approach, which was a breath of fresh air.
If you find the OP of somebody too long, just don't read it.
And if you are irritated, ignore his thread or vote without explaining your choice.
He will understand it doesn't make sense to participate as a manager and things will return to normal.
And if you are irritated, ignore his thread or vote without explaining your choice.
He will understand it doesn't make sense to participate as a manager and things will return to normal.
I wanted to try something different but it isn't bizarre and suits Netzer great imo.
He is covered by two alternative playmakers (Guardiola - defensive / Verratti - defensive or advanced) who take the pressure off him starting every attack.
He has Kante behind him pressing the opposition and winning back possession.
Rosato will constantly sit deep and be the last line of defence. He doesn't need another centre back next to him with the defensive cover he gets from Guardiola, Kante and Verratti.
Alaba and Reuter are both good defenders and attacking threats. They revert to full backs while defending but push forward while attacking. This means Netzer has Giggs and Alaba to pass to on the left, Bene and Reuter on the right, and Inzaghi through the middle.
The formation and tactics work well and give Netzer complete freedom just to focus on pushing forward and utilising his fantastic passing skills.
Thank you, nice of you to say.
I don't.
But sometimes you want a brief clarification on player roles, or whatever else isn't 100% clear.
And sometimes - no, quite often, in fact - people ask for such clarifications only to be told it's already mentioned in the OP. Which indicates a) that the person asking is a lazy bastard or b) that the OP is too long and/or messy.
I don't see why people can't use links (to the main thread) if they want to include elaborate descriptions in their write-ups. It's simply a matter of making match threads easier on the eye/easier to browse - nobody is against people doing extensive research and sharing their finds, it's a question of where and how the latter should be presented.
Just been thinking about how I would have gone about building around Netzer with this pool of players. I suppose it's similar to Germany '72 but possibly more attacking
This one looks nice. Wouldn't put Netzer that deep initially, even though I see that he is supposed to move vertically all over the pitch (which is very much in his style)Just been thinking about how I would have gone about building around Netzer with this pool of players. I suppose it's similar to Germany '72 but possibly more attacking
I can't see how or why Guardiola is defensive and Verratti defensive or advanced. Guardiola was very expansive, making him defensive-only is really really strange mate. Also, with not one but two great ball-pingers behind Netzer I would expect his influence to be reduced, he will often be bypassed altogether. TBH, Verratti shouldn't be there because he only adds to the confusion.
It seems you tried to create something which didn't require any defensive input from Netzer (fair enough) but overcooked it.
Nothing strange about keeping Guardiola defensive. He is a great tackler and passer and even though he used to get forward it doesn't mean he has to in this system. He is an excellent defensive midfielder and that is what he is doing in this formation.
Verratti is primarily a deeper playmaker for PSG but does often push forward. He has incredible passing accuracy and great tackling skills. Exactly how I am using him in this system.
Having two additional playmakers doesn't in any way reduce Netzer's role in this formation as all three of them have different tasks. Netzer's job is to push forward and play killer balls. Verratti's job is to either support Netzer in attack or push back to defend. Guardiola's job is to stay back, organise the defence and play the ball out from the back. None of them will be attempting the same passes and Netzer is the one responsible for the final balls.
We will have to agree to disagree I guess. I appreciate the effort in not going for a conventional 4-2-3-1 but I don't think you have best supported Netzer or used Guardiola properly.
Just been thinking about how I would have gone about building around Netzer with this pool of players. I suppose it's similar to Germany '72 but possibly more attacking
I'd have Förster and Burgnich instead of Silva and Boateng.
Lerby or Voronin or Schweinsteiger and one of Robson or Ardiles or Hassler.
Littbarski and Lato flanking Careca or Streltsov.
Didn't want to criticize your team before the game ended. You keep saying that, but he really wasn't - or, at least, we have a different definition of the word "great". And it's really strange to limit him only to defending, just get Deschamp or Makelele if you want a purely defensive midfielder. And playing Netzer with Verratti (who isn't the one to make off the ball runs) and Kante (who simply lacks technical ability) without having Wimmer/Bonhof-esque runner also takes away part of Netzer's game, at least in my opinion.
Your probably right about Forster and Burgnich but I chose Silva and Boateng as they can play a higher line easily. You could go flexible front three but I like having a front five in posession which covers all five areas across the pitch. In possession it would look like this:
-----------Signori--RVN-----
Ze Roberto--Netzer---Conti-----
---------Junior-----Bastian--------
-------------Vasovic-----------
-------Silva---------Boateng----
Also with a flexible front three I'd ideally want two attacking full backs which really doesn't suit a line up with Netzer unless you possibly go with three at the back (I haven't thought how I'd go about that)
Yeah, I don't get that either.
He wasn't exactly one for getting «stuck in», as they say, unless my memories of him have become bizarrely warped over the years.
DLP if there ever was one, all about reading the game (and hitting insane passes), and didn't have the physicality of - say - Scholes, who was a horrible tackler but who did at least get «stuck in» when he got sufficiently pissed off.
I'd say Pirlo and Pep are pretty similar in defensive sense. Two box to box players besides him to do the defensive work and get the ball to him to dictate the game.
I'd have him closer to Busquets than Pirlo, although the latter still gets underrated and contributed well in defense oriented setups in terms of soaking pressure but Pep's reading of the game and interceptions were top notch.
It does imo, Gladach played just that with Vogts and Klinkhammer bombing forward at will. Hottges was a defensive RCB in 1972 but Hoeness and Heynckes more than took care of the right hand flank. The stronger the flanks, the better it is imo, to fully utilise Netzer's outrageous long range passing skills.
Have you a picture of how they lined-up? I was imagining two attacking full backs in a 433 with the pivot dropping into a back three allowing the full-backs to bomb on which is why I didn't think it would suit Netzer hugely.
Nah they utilised a flat midfield trio two of Bonhof, Wimmer, Stielike, Danner etc, with Netzer in a free role of course and with two wing-forwards (Le Favre, Heynckes, Jensen etc) flanking Rupp. Naturally they relied a lot on the wing-forwards and the industrious midfield duo to cover the wing-backs and didn't really play with a designated pivot or a DM, although in some ways Wimmer was generally the most defensive of the midfielders.
Did both full-backs bomb forward at the same time or did they take turns to do so?
Hmm, it's been some time since I last watched them but both bombed forward at the same time with Sieloff playing a really expansive libero role. Naturally it really required the entire team (bar Netzer
) to work their socks off but they were more than willing to put the yards in.Hmm, it's been some time since I last watched them but both bombed forward at the same time with Sieloff playing a really expansive libero role. Naturally it really required the entire team (bar Netzer
I should probably watch that Gladbach side - they sound tactically very interesting. Any recommendations?
Do watch the game against Inter, can't believe how they didn't win that one, somehow ended up 0-0.
This is just a condensed version of the UEFA Cup final 2nd leg against Liverpool but well worth the watch
Game against Everton (this wasn't the vid that I watched it in though, can't find the other one)
Also another game against Inter (think it's a condensed version) is somewhere there on youtube and I recall torrenting a game or two, but there are also plenty of great highlight videos on Gladbach matches on youtube. Feckin shame that there isn't much comprehensive footage of Netzer or that Gladbach vintage. Also do try to watch the semis against Belgium in Euro 1972 (needs to be torrented I think) and the friendly against Soviet Union in 1972 (great quality footage) and the final of the Euros 1972 too. You've already watched the game against England haven't you.
The DFB Pokal final against Koln is also a decent watch to see the style of that Gladbach side, but it's without Netzer but he then comes on in extra time and does something special.
Thanks for the links and recommendations. Yep, I saw the England game a few months ago. It took me a while to get my head around that Germany team - very unique- I've never seen full-backs switch sides in a game
Or Hoeness and Wimmer too for that matter, with Muller dropping deep in a false nine role, Netzer-Beckenbauer doing their own thing (don't know what to call it myself) at the epic-centre of the side and in some ways only the wing-forwards were the most fixed points of the side, ironically enough.
Indeed. I especially didn't expect Muller to drop so deep either. A very unique side indeed.
You're missing the point then. Guardiola is not playing the Makelele role in this system. Kante is playing something kind of similar but still not the same. Guardiola is playing as a defensive playmaker. He wasn't a world class tackler but he was still very good one. As mentioned in my write up:
Guardiola, Kante and Verratti will drop deep, providing Rosato with support.
Kante will press the opposition hard and attempt to win the ball back as quickly as possible.
Guardiola and Verratti will stay composed and wait for the right time to tackle.
If the opposition manage to break through, Rosato will charge in and clear the ball by any means necessary.
So not too dissimilar to my team then?
True, in a similar way to -say- peak Carrick's understated efficiency in that role. But that's far from the deep-sitting all-action great tackler and D-line organiser he was being depicted as.