No. I don't wish. I know, like most sensible people.
Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic
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No. I don't wish. I know, like most sensible people.
Besides that, now the other matter, One look at their careers of Hargreaves and Carrick up to now can tell you Carrick clearly is not superior. Hargreaves was at a big club at a younger age. Broke into that big side at a younger age. Peformed against teams like REAL at a younger age. When Carrick was at a side like West Ham and at one time in the Championship. [/QUOTE]
Zinedien Zidane played for Bordeaux until he was 24. Does this make Hargreaves better than him also?
He's also currently one of the 5 most influencial players in our last 5 games. Why are you still talking about last season when his sparkling form is there for all too see right now?
He's a better player after a year of settling into the side. We can on ly hope Hargreaves develops the same way for next year.
Agreed...so lets give Hargreaves till next Jan/Feb and then reopen this thread. Why are the feckwits bashing Hargreaves when he didnt even play against Newcastle ?
Carrick = Zidane now ?
Not at all. Just proving that playing for a big club at a younger age than somebody else doesn't mean they're a better player. You're grasp of the English language isn't all that good is it?
Your analogies are worser than my grasp of English.
Playing for a big club at a younger age wasn't the only factor he pointed out but also that he has won trophies at one of Europe's biggest clubs and top managers select him ahead of Carrick for the national side and big CL games.
Hargreaves won more trophies than Zidane at that age also. It's not a good enough barometor to measure ability.
The facts of the matter is some players mature later than others. Carrick's game has improved a hell of a lot over the past three seasons. Like I said already, Hargreaves hasn't started anywhere near the number of games for England as you're suggesting. The only way to judge the two players is no how they've preformed so far in their Manchester United careers. Carrick has been better in my opinion. Hargreaves has time to prove me wrong but the only way he'll do it is on the pitch for Manchester United not on what he did at Bayern Munich.
Hmm...then Kalou is a better player than Scheva because he hasnt done well for Chelsea ?
Playing the least influential role among the starters in a title winning side doesn't make Carrick a great player. If it does and Arsenal win the title this time, then Eboue is a great winger
Hargreaves has 40 England caps while Carrick has just 14.
Rooney has 41, Scholes had 68 appearances and Rio has 65 so far.
Hmm...then Kalou is a better player than Scheva because he hasnt done well for Chelsea ?
Playing the least influential role among the starters in a title winning side doesn't make Carrick a great player. If it does and Arsenal win the title this time, then Eboue is a great winger
At the moment I'm sure most Chelsea fans would rather have Kalou on their team. Shevchenko is trading on reputation so at the minute Kalou is a better player for Chelsea. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
Some Bayern fans may believe Hargreaves was a lot less influential than Effenberg or Ballack. Doesn't stop people constantly referring to Hargreaves medals.
Hmm...then Kalou is a better player than Scheva because he hasnt done well for Chelsea ?
Playing the least influential role among the starters in a title winning side doesn't make Carrick a great player. If it does and Arsenal win the title this time, then Eboue is a great winger
Hargreaves has 40 England caps while Carrick has just 14.
Rooney has 41, Scholes had 68 appearances and Rio has 65 so far.
How many of those forty caps been starts? Less than half I would hazard a guess.
John Curle and Des Walker were consistently selected for England ahead of Steve Bruce.
And this tells us what exactly?
Garreth Barry is currently first choice defensive midfielder for England. This is the England team that managed to finish below Croatia and probably the weakest Russian team that's ever set foot on the planet.I don't think there's a need for Hargreaves bashing after a game in which he didn't play. The lad's had a lot of injuries, a lack of fitness perhaps - but he might make it good, give him time. However, suggesting that Hargreaves is the bee's simply because he played for Bayern and was given 40-odd caps for a mediocre international team is foolish in my opinion. Even if people can't make a decent qualitative judgement over the performances for United of Hargreaves vs Carrick/Anderson/Scholes, they could at least look at the stats.
Hargreaves made the England squad and has 40 appearances. Carrick is not good enough to even be a England squad player, that says it all.
Carrick didn't get in the most recent squad because he was in a poor run of form.
And after spending a week training with all the players, Cappello choose Barry over Hargreaves, so, by using your theory, Barry is a better player then Hargreaves.
David May has a European Cup winner's medal.
Kleberson won the World Cup.
Brian Clough only won two caps for England.
He wasn't that great a reason though. The return to from of Giggs and Scholes especially was most crucial. As was Ronaldo's coming of age and the settling down of Vidic and Evra, finally showing their true qualities. Not to mention the perfect understanding Rio and vidic formed. 5 reasons we won the league without even mentioning Carrick
Those are the typically ignorant remarks of people who have never understood the role a player like Hargreaves plays in a team say. They say that often saying his hunting down of the ball and harrasing opponents as "running around like a headless chicken"
and the like. If you truly understood the role such a player played. You wouldn't disrespect him so much. This season already we played Arsenal in the league, at the Emirates and didn't lose. With some key players missing. As compared to last season, with Carrick in Hargreaves' role, when our whole team was practically available and Arsenal were actually a weaker side than they are now. .
This season we infact drew because we broke up the Hargreaves-Anderson axis, that was controlling that game to accommodate Carrick let on. That resulted in us letting Arsenal back into the game and us conceding the equalizer. Before that Arsenal, that second half had been restricted to playing in no space and blind alleys because of Hargreaves, ball winning, harrying and positioning, which he did in tandem with Anderson. Same thing happened vs. Liverpool. They may have had a lot of the all. But they were harmless. Like Lyon were on Wednesday. Save for Benzema's special striker Lyon did little. Lyon was infact dominated completely and deserved to be 2-0 down by the time Carrick stepped on pitch.
Any who actually watches Hargreaves without being blinkered can see what he does. He denies opponents space to play, wins the ball regularly with tackles and plays it simple to the nearest attacking player, to attack or he plays it safe to a defender, to keep the ball from the opponents. Going forward immediately to help the attack further forward, to get at the player with the ball. Who is usually his partner in center midfield. His simple passes, too off a tackle, usually result in counter attacks. The goal Carrick scored City was a move started like that. The corner that resulted in Tevez's goal at Anfield resulted from such a counter attack, with Hargreaves bursting forward to force the corner. He often makes up one of the attacking players in the last 3rd of the field, when we have the ball, effectively helping to "box in" opponents as player like Scholes, Anderson, Rooney or Carrick spray the ball around behind or just ahead of him. Yet when they lose the ball, he still has the speed and intelligence to get back and win it or help shepard it out to safety. Which he succeeds in 8 out of 10 times. He is also excellent at neutralising the opposing team's main attacking midfielder.
Vs Lyon he did his job to near perfection. He won the ball consistently, constantly passing it simple for Scholes to use it. Harassed and denied Lyon space when they had the ball, forcing them into errors repeatedly. When ever Gouvou tried to ran at our defend he was often stopped. Only one or twice did he win free kicks. But that too was rare. Benzema suffered the same fate too, whenever he tried to at our defence. The one time Hargreaves was further up field, and he was surrounded by our defence alone he scored. Juninho their main attacking midfielder was snuffed out like a candle. Touching the ball only during free kicks. Lyon were boxed in their own half for whenever the broke forward or cleared the ball, Hargreaves pounced on it, handing it to Scholes, Anderson, Ronaldo, Giggs and the over lapping Brown and Evra to use. That was his job. Not to create or make things happened in an attacking sense.
Scholes, Anderson Rooney and Ronaldo were guilty of doing little creatively with possession, at times through out first half. The chances that were created were wasted. Then second half came, we had begun to turn the screw, then Benzema struck and we became even more dominant. We just run out of ideas because Scholes tried and slowed us down and Giggs got injured. By the time they were taken off we were so dominant and Lyon had seized to attack. So late on it made sense to take off Hargreaves, for Carrick alongside the additions of Tevez and Nani. To claim his impact in the champion’s league has been 'minimal" when we faced sides like Lille and Copenhagen, not remotely in Lyon's league, and struggled away from OT, as compared to the dominance we had over Lyon on Wednesday, is a pathetic joke. Worse still is the blaming of Hargreaves that people like Scholes were not as creative in possession as they normally can be. Worst of all, topping the lot is blaming Hargreaves for the goal. When over 4 players failed to stop him taking a shot. Players he was surrounded by.
Supporting Hargreaves is one thing trying to rubbish carrick is plain stupid, he has been consistantly good for us.
He wasn't that great a reason though. The return to from of Giggs and Scholes especially was most crucial. As was Ronaldo's coming of age and the settling down of Vidic and Evra, finally showing their true qualities. Not to mention the perfect understanding Rio and vidic formed. 5 reasons we won the league without even mentioning Carrick
Those are the typically ignorant remarks of people who have never understood the role a player like Hargreaves plays in a team say. They say that often saying his hunting down of the ball and harrasing opponents as "running around like a headless chicken"
This season we infact drew because we broke up the Hargreeaves-Anderson axis, that was controlling that game to accomdate Carrick let on. That resulted in us letting arenal back into the game and us conceeding the equaliser. Before that Arsenal, that second half had been restricted to playing in no space and blind alleys because of Hargreaves, ball winning, harrying and positioning, which he did in tandem with Anderson. Same thing happened vs Liverpool. They may have had alot of the all. But they were harmlless. Like Lyon were on Wednesday. Save for Benzema's special striker Lyon did little. Lyon were infact dominated compeletely and deserved to be 2-0 down by the time Carick stepped on pitch.
Any who actually watches Hargreaves without being binlered can see what he does. He denies opponents space to play, wins the ball regularly with tackles and plays it simple to the nearest attcking player, to attack or he plays it safe to a defender, to keep the ball from the opponents. Going forward immediately to help the attack further foward, to get at the player with the ball. Who is usally his partner in center midfield. His simple passes, too off a tackle, usually result in counter attacks. The goal Carrick scored City was a move started like that. The corner that resulted inTevez's goal at Anfeild resulted from such a counter attack, with Hargreaves bursting forward to force the corner. He often makes up one of the attacking players in the last 3rd of the field, when we have the ball, effectively helping to "box in" opponents as player like Scholes, Anderson, Rooney or Carrick spray the ball around behind or just ahead of him. Yet when they lose the ball, he still has the speed and intelligence to get back and win it or help sheppard it out to safety. Which he succeed in 8 out of 10 times. He is also excellent at neutralising the opposing team's main attacking mdfielder.
Vs Lyon he did his job to near perfection. He won the ball consistently, constantly passing it simple for Scholes to use it. Harrased and denied Lyon space when they had the ball, forcing them into errors repeatedly. When ever Gouvou tried to ran at our defend he was often stopped. Only one or twice did he win free kics. But that too was rare. Benzema suffured the same fate too,w henrver he tried to at our defence. The one time Hargreaves was further upfield, and he was surrounded by our defnce alone he scored. Juninho their main attacking midfielder was snuffed out like a candle. Touching the ball only during free kicks. Lyon were boxed in their own half for whenever the broke forward or cleared the ball, Hargreaves pounced on it, handing it to Scholes, Anderson, Ronaldo, Giggs and the over lapping Brown and Evra to use. That was his job. Not to create or make things happened in an attacking sense.
Scholes, Anderson Rooney and Ronaldo were guilty of doing little creatively with possesion, at times through out first half. The chance that were created were wasted. Then second half came, we had began to turn the screw, then Benzema struck and we became even more dominant. We just run out of ideas because Scholes tried and slowed us down and Giggs got injured. By the time they were taken off we we so dominant and Lyon had seized to attack. So late on it made sense to take off Hargreaves, for Carrick alongside the additions of Tevez and Nani. To claim hsi iamcpt in the champions league has been 'minimal" when we faced sides like Lille and Copenhagen, not remotely in Lyon's league, and struggled away from OT, as compared to the dominance we had over Lyon on wedneday, is a pathetic joke. Worse still is the blaming of Hargreaves that people like Schoels were not as creative in possesion as they normally can be. Worst of all, topping the lot is blaming Hargreaves for the goal. When over 4 players failed to stop him taking a shot. Players he was suruunded by.
The only people who are more idiotic than the Hargreaves bashers are the those who cannot see just how good carrick is.
I judge him based on his entire career. Same as Carrick. Any one claiming Carrick is superior is just plain silly. Over their career Hargreaves has proved far superior. Hagreaevs has done pretty well for his first season in England. Even alongsidea fellow new by like Anderson, who also din't no Englsih football and wasn't used to the league. People forget how bad Evra and Vidic were in their first season in comparison. What's funnier is they want to compare Carrick's moving from London to Manchester for his frist season at OT, to Hargeaves moving from years of Bundesliga Football in Bavaria to Manchester
Worse still is this myth he makes as incoherrent. Was the Man City performance away "incoherent"? Was the period wehn he came on with Rooney, in trh FA Cup, away to Villa, that resulted in us scoring 2 times "incoherent"?
sheesh. You are allowed to prefer Carrick to Hargreaves. It's true. Just don't cook up a flimsy reason for it.
He was on the pitch for ten minutes and touched the ball roughly twice.
Fair enough......SAF/Capello/Sven and a few others are idiots. Caftards on here are the true footballing geniuses
Only fools don't know how good Carrick is. Utter idiots want him to be played in a role that clearly suits him least. Namely, the defensive midfielder role Hargreaves plays. Airheads, believe pointing out Carrick's weaknesses, is equivalent to underating him, calling him garbage or not knowing how good a player he is. Lastly, absolute morons constantly attach to him strengths he has never had, deny he has weaknesses, blame other players for the times his weaknesses are exposed, have excuse after excuse for his failures, that have cost our team dear due these weakneses, on top of claiming he won us the league last season, Spurs fell apart the season he departed and he can't play the Scholes role in midfield "because he has been a DM all his life". I hope this helps
This season Gilberto has been rubbish and Flamini first choice. They were obviously weakened in midfield as were we. Fletcher and Carrick are not our first choice midfield pair. Neither were the 4 infront of them, namely: Anderson, Park, Nani and Rooney, our first choice front 4. Just like Arsenal rested Adebayor. Weakning their attack like we did by resting Ronaldo and Tevez. To top it all their greatest weakness was in the fullback positions where they had the out of depth Hoyte and Traore. So denying that we facdd a weakened Arsenal side, with actually a weakened team is crazy.
As was Fletcher Carrick's partner, proving all the more Carrick is best suited for the Scholes role and not the Hargreaves role.
But it's true. We were weakened, as were they. You can't possible deny that.
That's just noise RICTR. Perhaps if you typed at a slower speed and with a dictionary to hand that would also give you time to think through your arguments.
Arsenal a weaker side last year than this year?
Lille not in Lyon's league? Is this the Lyon who are currently battling it out with Super Bellion's Bordeaux for Ligue 1? Bordeaux who are at this very moment being outplayed at home by Lille (who sold their 2 best players in the summer)?
Look, Hargreaves may come good. A decent run of fitness would help him for a start. But so far this season, for a £17m player he has been very very disappointing. The contributions of Anderson and Carrick in particular show him up and matchgoers and Caf-attenders alike appear to recognise that. When he starts performing I will be happier than anyone, but until then, he should be on the bench (or at right back).
Deep breaths, slow down, chill out.
On a more serious note, what's with the Hargreaves love-in mate? Are you Canadian? Or a Bayern supporter? Or simply a fan of retro-1980s hairstyles?
Up yours. You're a fecking moron Ralphie. This much is clear. So you can feck right off! I don't have the time for your childish buffooneryThat's just noise RICTR. Perhaps if you typed at a slower speed and with a dictionary to hand that would also give you time to think through your arguments.
Arsenal a weaker side last year than this year?
Lille not in Lyon's league? Is this the Lyon who are currently battling it out with Super Bellion's Bordeaux for Ligue 1? Bordeaux who are at this very moment being outplayed at home by Lille (who sold their 2 best players in the summer)?
Look, Hargreaves may come good. A decent run of fitness would help him for a start. But so far this season, for a £17m player he has been very very disappointing. The contributions of Anderson and Carrick in particular show him up and matchgoers and Caf-attenders alike appear to recognise that. When he starts performing I will be happier than anyone, but until then, he should be on the bench (or at right back).
Up yours. You're a fecking moron Ralphie. This much is clear. So you can feck right off! I don't have the time for your childish buffoonery
Ah bless.
Kiss.
Agreed.
As for Capello, he is 1 game in as England manager, it was a friendly and he picked players based on FORM, which Carrick was not in.
I fully expect Carrick to feature more for England in the future and Capello to be aware of his qualities.
Carrick only lacks consistency when playing for England, if he plays at his usual level for England as he does for us, theres no doubt he'll be a regular for England. I still remember Carrick's great game against Ecuador in the world cup.
Fair enough......SAF/Capello/Sven and a few others are idiots. Caftards on here are the true footballing geniuses
SAF bought him
Give Capello time
Sven usually played hargreaves wing or fb rarley dm and nearly always as a sub which perhaps says more ........... I am not a Hargreaves bashers but unlike you I do understand how good carrick is and so far this season he has been by far the better player.
No. You know what every other mistaken, Carrick lover/Hargreaves basher knows. Sensible people do what men like Capello, Hitzfeld, Sven and Fergie have done. They prefer Hargreaves in a defensive midfield role.
I have nightmares about Capello discovering a Gerrard/Carrick partnership.
England might be half decent and that would be very embarassing when we're chanting anti-England songs at United.
Zidane won the UEFA cup at Bordeux. Literally carrying them with Duggary's help to the trophy. whiel helping them do well in the league and earning a move to thee club of the time, Juventus! What did Carrick win at West Ham? What trophy or heights did he take or help lead them to? Eh? Even while at Spurs?
you now comparing the french league with the PL ---------- please be sensible
Sorry my arse.
People should be sorry for you! You are the one, hands down, with a trash can for a mouth with a garbage odour reeking out. If you have dared to claim I don't know how good Carrick is
Deep breaths, slow down, chill out.
On a more serious note, what's with the Hargreaves love-in mate? Are you Canadian? Or a Bayern supporter? Or simply a fan of retro-1980s hairstyles?
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