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Maybe I’m being harsh on him. Just frustrated with our current state.Lacey hasn’t kicked a ball in senior football. If you are going based on youth football, I do wonder how much of Hannibal you watched, as he was a level above the rest and academy player of the year.
He definitely has it, and the thing that people seem to be most concerned about is actually one of the main assets as to why he ‘has it’. As a young player coming in, you need to be able to at least do the work, graft and look after yourself a bit, otherwise coaches don’t want to risk even the talented guys. Hannibal can play, but at the minimum, he can compete. His ability to compete is a base level, his talent will do the rest.
If we can give McTominay hundreds of games here and can’t even afford a few to Hannibal I’d be very disappointed.
United's midfield is just not good enough , If it were upto me I would be definitely moving away from Casemiro, Eriksen , Mctominay , even Fernandes and give fair opportunities to Mainoo, Mejbri , Mount and Ambrabat and experiment with different Combinations to find something which works better and have greater balance .Maybe I’m being harsh on him. Just frustrated with our current state.
I would certainly be playing him ahead of McTominay right now. I’d even be ready to be starting Mainoo ahead of casemiro but I know it’s unrealistic. Casemiro is a major problem this season for me.
Given that McT's invisible man peformance on Saturday has hopefully silenced the McT apologists, what have we got to lose by playing Mejbri more. He at least brings energy and tenacity something that McT doesnt.Needs to get more games for us imo. He will probably have shitty games as well, but at least he still seems hungry and doesn't back out of a challenge. He seems to have a hunger in him a lot of the others players are lacking.
His goal wasn't half bad either.
I don’t mind if he gets a yellow card every match. It’s better than Mctominay going 90 minutes without being visible.He can't go 30 minutes without getting a yellow card, so it's hard for the manager to trust him to start games.
He looks like a potentially decent player if he can calm down and move the ball around without getting into constant feuds with the opposition.
No, the point is when he gets his inevitable yellow after say 20 minutes, there's a very good chance he's getting sent off at some point.I don’t mind if he gets a yellow card every match. It’s better than Mctominay going 90 minutes without being visible.
That’s fine. The period he is on the pitch will be more effective than 90 mins of Mctominay.No, the point is when he gets his inevitable yellow after say 20 minutes, there's a very good chance he's getting sent off at some point.
I respect your opinion mate however strangely enough I take one look at Hannibal and see a player and wonder why this guy has not been integrated into the team already.Yes I do. Just my opinion. You can normally see something about young players and if they’re likely to make it. I don’t see it with Hannibal. I do see it with the likes of Mainoo and even Shea Lacey. It was obvious with Garnacho too.
Like the ideas behind this and ultimately this is what would be required in terms of positioning on the pitch in order to dominate football matches.I do think it's a possibility, yes.
First of all we have to try and understand ten Hag's tactical concept when it comes to playing the game and how he wants to play the game in the opponent's half. So when he arrived at the club, the first thing he attempted to do was sign Frenkie de Jong. And the reason he was trying to sign Frenkie de Jong was due to the player being a fit for the way ten Hag wants to progress the ball from the back. FdJ had the ball carrying/dribbling and resisting/evading pressure ability which is absolutely crucial for a head coach who wants to bypass the opponent's press from the defensive and midfield lines. Unfortunately we weren't able to sign de Jong but instead we signed Casemiro who imo was a better fit alongside the personnel we had in the team last season and hence playing a more direct game in transition suited the collective as a whole where the GK kicked it long and we ceded possession against the top teams who also happened to be the best high pressing teams in the league. And ten Hag mentioned in a press conference after missing out on de Jong about possibly developing a youngster from the academy as the connector from the base of the midfield.
And it became evident during pre-season when Kobbie Mainoo was given games at the base of the midfield that ten Hag was developing him in the connector role at the base of the midfield. And for me the plan was very obvious, that we were going to go into the season with Mainoo as the connector in midfield with Amrabat coming in at the end of the window, which several reports alluded to. But unfortunately for us, Mainoo picked up a injury and has since been unavailable, which compounded matters because Amrabat joined late in the window.
We have two midfielders who can potentially play the connector role in possession at the base of the midfield against the opponent's high pressing tactics, and those two players are Amrabat and Mainoo. Amrabat is going to be the key to knitting it all together because he can slow the game down in possession by going horizontal or even vertical with his passes and also has the out of possession game to add more bite and intensity. He's not Frenkie de Jong but he should raise the level of the team when it comes to providing a calming influence in possession. Casemiro just isn't a connector type at all and it would be better to push him forward in the build up phase as the #8 and have him as the holding midfielder out of possession. It's about placing the right pieces in the right places and we should hopefully see a more functional team once everyone is available.
The team below has potential to evolve.
-----------------------Hojlund-------------------
--Rashford------Bruno------Mount---Dalot--
-----------Casemiro-------Amrabat-------------
------Shaw------Martinez------Varane---------
----------------------Onana---------------
-----------------------Hojlund-------------------
--Rashford------Bruno------Hannibal---Dalot--
-----------Mainoo-------Amrabat-------------
------Shaw------Martinez------Varane---------
----------------------Onana---------------
This has to be taken in the context of us having no right winger available bar a young player who ETH doesn't seem to rate very highly. Antony dealing with his issues, Sancho suspended by the club, Greenwood loaned out, Amad injured. Basically our top four players for the one position all out at once (three if we want to ignore Greenwood since we knew ahead of time he'd be unavailable). That lack of anybody to play that position was likely the main reason we tried something new, and let's not forget that it was actually working quite well until they scored their first goal completely against the run of play.But then three games later and he’s experimenting with a narrow diamond in midfield in the PL in 2023 against one of the best teams in the country. The sort of thing that just kinda makes me think he doesn’t know what he’s doing.
And also brought in a sweeper keeper but forced him to play deeper. What's happening here is that we have a manager who wants to implement his style but he is letting outside influences stop him from going all out resulting in a situation where the attack is playing a high press but the defense is still sitting a few yards too deep which means that midfielders are having to defend too big a space and they (Casemiro in particular) aren't coping.Like the ideas behind this and ultimately this is what would be required in terms of positioning on the pitch in order to dominate football matches.
Unfortunately and it sounds terrible but I don’t think this is what Ten Hag is thinking because his transfers and his team selections suggest otherwise. He signed Antony for 85 million and Mount for 55 million so you’d have to bank on them being in the line up most weeks.
Why did he go from pursuing de Jong to then go after mount.
He let Fred go and in the first two games started two amcs ahead of Casemiro indicating that was his long term plan, not having two more deeper sitting central players: I think he wanted dalot to tuck into midfield to assist Casemiro but he’s just not a very good footballer. And that position is critical to be able to play the way he wanted which goes back to why he chose to spend 50 mill on a keeper when perhaps a more suitable inverted wing back would have been a higher priority.
But then three games later and he’s experimenting with a narrow diamond in midfield in the PL in 2023 against one of the best teams in the country. The sort of thing that just kinda makes me think he doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Haha we will see him again in January when he's holding the shirt for his Loan club.Comes on, scores....wont see him again until next years tour.
This has to be taken in the context of us having no right winger available bar a young player who ETH doesn't seem to rate very highly. Antony dealing with his issues, Sancho suspended by the club, Greenwood loaned out, Amad injured. Basically our top four players for the one position all out at once (three if we want to ignore Greenwood since we knew ahead of time he'd be unavailable). That lack of anybody to play that position was likely the main reason we tried something new, and let's not forget that it was actually working quite well until they scored their first goal completely against the run of play.
This is the scary part, he wants to implement this style but everything he does goes against it, indicating either him and his coaching team aren’t good enough to drill in this style or that the players aren’t good enough. Either of these things just looks really bad on him.And also brought in a sweeper keeper but forced him to play deeper. What's happening here is that we have a manager who wants to implement his style but he is letting outside influences stop him from going all out resulting in a situation where the attack is playing a high press but the defense is still sitting a few yards too deep which means that midfielders are having to defend too big a space and they (Casemiro in particular) aren't coping.
I agree that the summer was a big missed opportunity in that we spent far too much money on players that won't improve us and opened up a few gaps. With Fred gone we no longer have a harrier in midfield, exposing Casemiro and the defense. We let De Gea go which meant we had to spend £50m replacing when we still had too many issues and he was by far not the biggest of them as we don't have a proper striker, a creative midfielder who can do everything we need in midfield, a Right back who can invert and still know when to revert back to position and a CB to provide physicality that we lack when Varane is out.
With all these issues prevailing we somehow decided that wasting £110m on Mount and Onana was the move that will improve us. We havent improved, we have regressed massively and the manager was allowed to make two or three big mistakes successively.
The Mount signing has absolutely no correlation to the previous pursuit of Frenkie de Jong. Frenkie de Jong is a first phase midfielder who raises the level in the build up phase in possession. And Mount is someone who is best utilised in advanced areas of the pitch. Hence I mentioned in my previous post about de Jong being a connector type in the deeper build up phase in midfield and our current two options for that role are both unavailable for the time being. And those two players are Mainoo and Amrabat and when they're available you will see both featuring especially Amrabat as the first receiver in midfield.Like the ideas behind this and ultimately this is what would be required in terms of positioning on the pitch in order to dominate football matches.
Unfortunately and it sounds terrible but I don’t think this is what Ten Hag is thinking because his transfers and his team selections suggest otherwise. He signed Antony for 85 million and Mount for 55 million so you’d have to bank on them being in the line up most weeks.
Why did he go from pursuing de Jong to then go after mount.
He let Fred go and in the first two games started two amcs ahead of Casemiro indicating that was his long term plan, not having two more deeper sitting central players: I think he wanted dalot to tuck into midfield to assist Casemiro but he’s just not a very good footballer. And that position is critical to be able to play the way he wanted which goes back to why he chose to spend 50 mill on a keeper when perhaps a more suitable inverted wing back would have been a higher priority.
But then three games later and he’s experimenting with a narrow diamond in midfield in the PL in 2023 against one of the best teams in the country. The sort of thing that just kinda makes me think he doesn’t know what he’s doing.
That was my point. He completely changed tact. Didn’t go for somebody similar. Went for a player with a totally different skill set. You can’t honestly believe in one summer he’s decided Mainoo is now the replacement for de Jong.The Mount signing has absolutely no correlation to the previous pursuit of Frenkie de Jong. Frenkie de Jong is a first phase midfielder who raises the level in the build up phase in possession. And Mount is someone who is best utilised in advanced areas of the pitch. Hence I mentioned in my previous post about de Jong being a connector type in the deeper build up phase in midfield and our current two options for that role are both unavailable for the time being. And those two players are Mainoo and Amrabat and when they're available you will see both featuring especially Amrabat as the first receiver in midfield.
His long-term plan is simple to understand and it's easy to see what he wants the team to do. And it doesn't necessarily revolve around him playing two amcs ahead of a lone holding midfielder. Because the system itself doesn't rely on formations but rather it requires personnel to occupy zones and spaces to create numerical superiorities higher up the pitch. And when you're missing both your deeper lying midfielders then that task becomes a little bit more difficult.
Erik ten Hag is now at the stage where he's attempting to get the team to play in a higher defensive line and alot of the issues we've seen thus far are to do with some of the players finding it difficult to adjust to the demands of playing a more proactive play-style. We've also been without both Amrabat and Mainoo who I'm very hopeful will raise the level in the build up phase due to their ability to evade/resist the opponent's high pressing tactics.
The Mount signing has absolutely no correlation to the previous pursuit of Frenkie de Jong. Frenkie de Jong is a first phase midfielder who raises the level in the build up phase in possession. And Mount is someone who is best utilised in advanced areas of the pitch. Hence I mentioned in my previous post about de Jong being a connector type in the deeper build up phase in midfield and our current two options for that role are both unavailable for the time being. And those two players are Mainoo and Amrabat and when they're available you will see both featuring especially Amrabat as the first receiver in midfield.
His long-term plan is simple to understand and it's easy to see what he wants the team to do. And it doesn't necessarily revolve around him playing two amcs ahead of a lone holding midfielder. Because the system itself doesn't rely on formations but rather it requires personnel to occupy zones and spaces to create numerical superiorities higher up the pitch. And when you're missing both your deeper lying midfielders then that task becomes a little bit more difficult.
Erik ten Hag is now at the stage where he's attempting to get the team to play in a higher defensive line and alot of the issues we've seen thus far are to do with some of the players finding it difficult to adjust to the demands of playing a more proactive play-style. We've also been without both Amrabat and Mainoo who I'm very hopeful will raise the level in the build up phase due to their ability to evade/resist the opponent's high pressing tactics.
EtH might surprise you there, it definitely looked like he had plans to give Mainoo a lot of minutes. Yes, it was pre-season, but the boy bossed Arsenal, and he was started with the rest of the first team against Madrid.Maybe I’m being harsh on him. Just frustrated with our current state.
I would certainly be playing him ahead of McTominay right now. I’d even be ready to be starting Mainoo ahead of casemiro but I know it’s unrealistic. Casemiro is a major problem this season for me.
Maybe I’m being harsh on him. Just frustrated with our current state.
I would certainly be playing him ahead of McTominay right now. I’d even be ready to be starting Mainoo ahead of casemiro but I know it’s unrealistic. Casemiro is a major problem this season for me.
It makes zero sense to sign Amrabat and then have him as back up to Casemiro. Because Casemiro simply isn't a first receiver in midfield against the press because he isn't someone who is comfortable at all receiving the ball with his back to goal or receiving the ball on the half turn.Amrabat was brought in on loan on deadline day to, according to Ten Hag, provide back up to Casemiro and, at times, play ahead of him. I’m not sure that he is as central to any plan of his as you are implying at all. If all of our midfielders were fit, he would almost certainly be on the bench, not our default first receiver on the pitch, and the same likely applies to Mainoo.
It makes zero sense to sign Amrabat and then have him as back up to Casemiro. Because Casemiro simply isn't a first receiver in midfield against the press because he isn't someone who is comfortable at all receiving the ball with his back to goal or receiving the ball on the half turn.
It might well make zero sense to you, I just mean that from what I see/hear - that is the intent of Ten Hag. Perhaps you are jumping the gun and giving him too much credit for this assumed plan of his. We had only one DM in the squad, and now we have a second, relatively cheap option. Let’s see what he does but I suspect you have filled in a lot of blanks based on what makes sense to you.
I would say that by far the strongest indication is that his first choice midfield is Casemiro, Mount and Fernandes. For all its flaws.
You could be right and the midfield 3 you mention might well be what ten Hag goes with.It might well make zero sense to you, I just mean that from what I see/hear - that is the intent of Ten Hag. Perhaps you are jumping the gun and giving him too much credit for this assumed plan of his. We had only one DM in the squad, and now we have a second, relatively cheap option. Let’s see what he does but I suspect you have filled in a lot of blanks based on what makes sense to you.
I would say that by far the strongest indication is that his first choice midfield is Casemiro, Mount and Fernandes. For all its flaws.
He’s a proper talent, a world class midfield talent IMO, although I wonder if he is in the right place at the right time now. This manager thinks he’s a striker.
You could be right and the midfield 3 you mention might well be what ten Hag goes with.
But what makes sense to me isn't something I've concocted without attempting to understand the manager's ideas on how he wants to implement his ideas on the pitch. And sometimes a manager is dealt a hand when arriving at the club which requires some compromise and hence a player like Casemiro is a better fit for a team or squad that is overloaded with players who are suited to playing transition football. So the keeper kicks it long instead of passing through the midfield and upon winning the ball back, the ball is recycled back to Casemiro who receives the ball with time and space with the play in-front if him. So with that strategy a player like Casemiro isn't required to resist or evade the press and can focus on winning duels and receiving the ball with the play straight in front of him in a compact lower block which suits him. But that's a strategy which we want to move on from and become a more proactive team rather than the reactive team we have become, for a decade post Fergie.
So you buy a keeper and add a couple of midfielders (Amrabat/Mainoo) who can potentially provide the ability to retain possession in confined spaces, evade and resist the opponent's pressure and progress the ball through the thirds. That's something Casemiro isn't good at, so it was important we had at least two options that could potentially provide solutions in the build up phase.
And I haven't given ten Hag credit here but rather I'm speaking about what options he has once everyone is available to him. It's easy to criticise when things are going wrong but very difficult to discuss solutions on how we can improve going forward.
And it doesn't matter how much money we've spent on Casemiro as someone alluded to above. It's about taking the next step and looking to improve further by having players who fit the tactical blueprint. Txiki Begiristain at Man City wasted 100s of millions in his first two windows on numerous duds like Managala, Bony, Demichelis, Negredo, Jovetic, Fernando etc just to name some. But the owners kept backing him and went as far as breaking most rules in the book when it comes to FFP etc.
When we missed out on Frenkie de Jong, ten Hag was asked in a press conference about if he would look to sign someone else as the connector in midfield. And his response was that he only wants to sign the correct profile of player for the role and if it means waiting for such a player, then he was even prepared to wait, because he only wanted to sign the right player for the role in question. And he finished off by saying that maybe there's a solution via the academy and if he thought there was someone already at the club that he thought was good enough to be developed for the role, then he would look to develop that player. And everything indicates towards that player being Kobbie Mainoo. He's still very young and he will have his ups and downs, but for me it's a positive move and something I look forward to seeing develop.I would like to think this is the idea, but it just doesn’t tally with Ten Hag’s actions for me. Before Casemiro, he didn’t ‘accept the hand he was dealt’ and look for a midfielder best suited for transition football. He targeted Frenkie De Jong. If that was his idea, and he places the stock you feel he places in Amrabat, then why did he not target Amrabat next (last summer) after failing to get De Jong?
Then the circumstances under which Amrabat was eventually brought to the club would indicate that he was not a player central to any plans Ten Hag had. Going by his actions, you would say that Mason Mount was central to his plans, and he prioritised and pursued him aggressively, spending a lot of money (aware that it may potentially mean that there was no money left to buy Amrabat) and offering him our most prestigious shirt.
He did bring in a new number one, although this appears to have been a late decision after De Gea didn’t sign a new deal months ago, and then his form fell apart. Then there are his own words, he wants us to be a transition team.
Your ideas sound good, and of course preferred for me, but they sound like more your ideas than Ten Hag’s on current viewing. Mainoo looks a big talent and a midfielder ready to step into the first team. Not sure it’s necessarily more than that as opposed to him being identified as central to some sort of tactical switch.
My confidence in his ideas are quite low, admittedly, and if anything, he seems to be making it up as he goes with no clear philosophy to me. If anything, signing Amrabat is him making a mistake (Mount) and fixing it in about 12 weeks if Amrabat is to be anything more than a backup. Then there’s FDJ to Casemiro. I’m not sure what his personal philosophies are. Hopefully they will become as clear to me as they are to you in time, and that we can start building more methodically through midfield.
Do you mean facing the goal (our goal), by any chance? If he’s supposed to progress the ball and be the first receiver, he’d have to be facing our goal. Anyway, I like your analysis of what you think Ten Hag is planning. He seems fairly ruthless so it wouldn’t surprise me to see Amrabat start ahead of Casemiro, and it would also probably be a better partnership with Mount.It makes zero sense to sign Amrabat and then have him as back up to Casemiro. Because Casemiro simply isn't a first receiver in midfield against the press because he isn't someone who is comfortable at all receiving the ball with his back to goal or receiving the ball on the half turn.
Casemiro is a player who is comfortable on the ball if he's facing the opponent with time and space. But against teams who press high and congest the defensive third it's absolutely imperative to raise the level of the team by signing players or introducing players via the youth setup who are comfortable at receiving passes in confined spaces in the build up phase from the base of the midfield.Do you mean facing the goal (our goal), by any chance? If he’s supposed to progress the ball and be the first receiver, he’d have to be facing our goal. Anyway, I like your analysis of what you think Ten Hag is planning. He seems fairly ruthless so it wouldn’t surprise me to see Amrabat start ahead of Casemiro, and it would also probably be a better partnership with Mount.
Great few posts on this thread.You could be right and the midfield 3 you mention might well be what ten Hag goes with.
But what makes sense to me isn't something I've concocted without attempting to understand the manager's ideas on how he wants to implement his ideas on the pitch. And sometimes a manager is dealt a hand when arriving at the club which requires some compromise and hence a player like Casemiro is a better fit for a team or squad that is overloaded with players who are suited to playing transition football. So the keeper kicks it long instead of passing through the midfield and upon winning the ball back, the ball is recycled back to Casemiro who receives the ball with time and space with the play in-front if him. So with that strategy a player like Casemiro isn't required to resist or evade the press and can focus on winning duels and receiving the ball with the play straight in front of him in a compact lower block which suits him. But that's a strategy which we want to move on from and become a more proactive team rather than the reactive team we have become, for a decade post Fergie.
So you buy a keeper and add a couple of midfielders (Amrabat/Mainoo) who can potentially provide the ability to retain possession in confined spaces, evade and resist the opponent's pressure and progress the ball through the thirds. That's something Casemiro isn't good at, so it was important we had at least two options that could potentially provide solutions in the build up phase.
And I haven't given ten Hag credit here but rather I'm speaking about what options he has once everyone is available to him. It's easy to criticise when things are going wrong but very difficult to discuss solutions on how we can improve going forward.
And it doesn't matter how much money we've spent on Casemiro as someone alluded to above. It's about taking the next step and looking to improve further by having players who fit the tactical blueprint. Txiki Begiristain at Man City wasted 100s of millions in his first two windows on numerous duds like Managala, Bony, Demichelis, Negredo, Jovetic, Fernando etc just to name some. But the owners kept backing him and went as far as breaking most rules in the book when it comes to FFP etc.
He does seem to get the ball nicked off him if he’s in the half turn. Hopefully Amrabat is better at that aspect.Casemiro is a player who is comfortable on the ball if he's facing the opponent with time and space. But against teams who press high and congest the defensive third it's absolutely imperative to raise the level of the team by signing players or introducing players via the youth setup who are comfortable at receiving passes in confined spaces in the build up phase from the base of the midfield.
I don't understand why we are such a charity and has to paly Eriksen for his so called good vision and refined technique on the ball which he never can execute because his dynamism and athletic dispositions are on amateur league football.I'm not sure if he's the answer, but it must be hard for him to watch that kind of performance from Eriksen and still not get on the pitch.
