Gun control

MrMarcello said:
A store in Georgia is arguing in court that gun sales are "essential" during this Covid-19 stay-at-home mantra.
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To be fair, there's a lot of hunting in Georgia so people who get food in this way do need access to firearms and ammunition and, potentially, repair services. Not every gun owner is a doomsday prepper with 50k rounds in their shed.

Farmers might use guns for pest control and will also need access to these items.

It's easy to view certain sectors in isolation and think staying open us ridiculous but when you consider the supply chain then some things don't seem quite as out there as they first appear.
 
Only way America will ever truly ban guns, it would take a massive scale shootout in fecking Disneyland. It too little too late to even make a dent on the NRA. Seriously who the feck needs a mini gun. Psychopaths.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
Only way America will ever truly ban guns, it would take a massive scale shootout in the fecking White House. It too little too late to even make a dent on the NRA. Seriously who the feck needs a mini gun. Psychopaths.
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Fixed
 
I think we've come to the predictable conclusion now that not one depressing and catastrophic event is going to change the majority of Americans views regarding their Gun-loving-culture.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
Only way America will ever truly ban guns, it would take a massive scale shootout in fecking Disneyland. It too little too late to even make a dent on the NRA. Seriously who the feck needs a mini gun. Psychopaths.
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It'd definitely need something that directly affects some of the chief gun nuts families.
Plus both main political parties being hell bent on banning them
 
AaronRedDevil said:
Only way America will ever truly ban guns, it would take a massive scale shootout in fecking Disneyland. It too little too late to even make a dent on the NRA. Seriously who the feck needs a mini gun. Psychopaths.
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There have been 2 congressmen shot. 1 elementary school. Even 2 presidents in the last century, if you want to count that.
I don't think there's a level beyond which people or representatives say "enough", it's like frogs in warm water, they adjust to their new reality.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
Only way America will ever truly ban guns, it would take a massive scale shootout in fecking Disneyland. It too little too late to even make a dent on the NRA. Seriously who the feck needs a mini gun. Psychopaths.
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Sandy Hook led to the highest level of gun sales ever recorded. Nothing will be enough. The country is fundamentally broken.
 
A country whose first reaction to the "bad guys" having guns, is to dish out more guns to the "good guys" says it all.

I
 
I will never understand that some US states have laws which say that in certain circumstances, pricate citizens are allowed to murder people. I mean, sure 300 years ago the zeitgeist lend itself a bit better to these things, but in modern times? It's insane. People are fecking stupid, why would you leave these things up to them.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I will never understand that some US states have laws which say that in certain circumstances, pricate citizens are allowed to murder people. I mean, sure 300 years ago the zeitgeist lend itself a bit better to these things, but in modern times? It's insane. People are fecking stupid, why would you leave these things up to them.
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I don't see a problem with having the right to protect yourself as a last resort.
 
Grinner said:
I don't see a problem with having the right to protect yourself as a last resort.
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I suppose it makes more sense in a country were most people have a shotgun lying around the house since the chance of something escalating into a fire fight is quite real.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I suppose it makes more sense in a country were most people have a shotgun lying around the house since the chance of something escalating into a fire fight is quite real.
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It's also common for many people to live a long way from law enforcement so a cop just showing up to help isn't going to happen. But it needs to be an absolute last resort unlike in this current case being debated.
 
Grinner said:
It's also common for many people to live a long way from law enforcement so a cop just showing up to help isn't going to happen. But it needs to be an absolute last resort unlike in this current case being debated.
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Ah that's actually a good point. The states is of course a giant and quite desolated country compared to the crowded little shitehole I'm from.,
 
Canada has banned semi automatic assault weapons and many other automatic guns.
 
To be fair, all guns are already banned in Canada. It's in the criminal code.

Some of us are granted an amnesty by having a licence to possesses them. A licence that can be revoked anytime and whose holders are checked daily for criminal complaints against them.

This is just optics for prime minister socks and his band of merry Liberal twats.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
To be fair, all guns are already banned in Canada. It's in the criminal code.

Some of us are granted an amnesty by having a licence to possesses them. A licence that can be revoked anytime and whose holders are checked daily for criminal complaints against them.

This is just optics for prime minister socks and his band of merry Liberal twats.
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I don't agree with you on banning these kind of guns. The long gun registry was a good thing. I agree Trudeau is a twat but it's high time they banned these kind of weapons. No need of them for hunting.
They may be checking every day in Ontario but not in some provinces. Too many nut cases have access to these.
 
Foxbatt said:
I don't agree with you on banning these kind of guns. The long gun registry was a good thing. I agree Trudeau is a twat but it's high time they banned these kind of weapons. No need of them for hunting.
They may be checking every day in Ontario but not in some provinces. Too many nut cases have access to these.
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The hunting argument is disingenuous as most of the weapons on the list aren't eligible to hunt with due to their restricted status. But I wouldn't expect truthful statements from a blackface wearing PM who has the cheek to say "racism and intolerance have no place in this country" with a straight face earlier this week.

But the point is the guns are already banned and have been for twenty five years. Read the Criminal Code of Canada. The facts are that two of the weapons that are banned have been used in violent crimes in Canada in three incidents. This is just virtue signalling from a government that claims to act based on science and facts. Horseshit.

The long gun registry cost us over $2 billion. Money that would have been better spent on law enforcement or community engagement tools that can actually prevent or solve crimes. The LGR never did any of that. Aside from enriching a few friends of the Liberal Party, feel good optics was all it ever achieved.

Licensed individuals are the safest people in the country so your comment about nut cases is hogwash. We've been background checked up the wazoo by the RCMP when we obtain our license, are rechecked everyday for criminal complaints/activities and, occasionally, wives and girlfriends are contacted when we buy a new gun to ask if it's ok with them. Yes, some of these people hold unsavoury opinions and I woudn't be friends with many of them but it's bordering on libellous how we are painted as mass murderers in waiting because we like target shooting, which, by the way, is one of the three valid reasons for owning a firearm in Canada (hunting, target shooting, collecting).

This is not to mention the businesses, livelihoods and property value this order is destroying. The two million PAL and RPAL holders in this country spend billions of dollars on firearms and related products every year. When we talk about buybacks, "fair market value" after the two year amnesty gives the government the ability to claim market value as near zero because they have created conditions where there is no demand. That is the very definition of a scam (one side controlling the conditions of the transactions). One of my ARs cost $2700. I'll be lucky if they offer me $250 for it. That's the state outright robbing me and thousands of other Canadians who have never committed any wrongdoing.
 
To help you understand where most of the guns "banned" today were, I'll give you a timeline and cost estimate for an unlicensed individual to acquire an AR-15 legally in Ontario.

First, you need to spend at least one weekend taking two courses that will enable you to apply for the two firearms licences you need to acquire an AR-15. At the end of each course, you also complete written and practical safe handling tests. Most of these courses are solidly booked, so it's likely you'd need to wait about two months to get in. These courses tend to cost about $250 each (total $500)

Once you have your test results, you can apply for the two licenses required. The Possession and Acquisition licence (PAL) and Restricted Possession and Acquisition Licence (RPAL). The PAL allows you to possess and acquire typical hunting guns and ammunition. The RPAL allows you to possess and acquire restricted firearms like handguns and AR-15s etc. The minimum wait time is three months, usually more. Cost is $80 each (total $160).

In Ontario, you need to be a member of a gun club to acquire restricted firearms. So you need to find a club, join, pay your dues and take another club level safety course. The cheapest club I've joined cost me $200 a year. My current club is about $600. Some clubs require you to buy a share. Shares in the biggest and best club north of Toronto cost $13000 plus a membership fee of about $500. Clubs are also jam packed and it can be difficult to find one taking new members. Let's estimate the time at 3 months and a $350 cost.

Now you can buy your AR-15. Depending on how you purchase it (retail or privately) it can take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks for the legal transfer to complete. The cheapest AR-15s retail anywhere between $600-700 dollars (tthese are the Norinco CQA and the DPMS Panther). You'll need ammunition and probably want an optic as well but we won't consider those costs, although minimum is probably $250 just to get started.

Let's tally up.

Time - minimum 8-9 months
Cost - minimum $1700

Finally, restricted class firearms can only be discharged at an approved firing range. You can only transport them to a range, gun shop or repair facility via a reasonable route from their registered address, trigger locked in a locked container. At home, they must be stored trigger locked in a safe, locking cabinet or case.

People think there is a danger because they are unaware of the facts. The Liberal party will never tell you the facts if they don't support their agenda. They will argue emotively because it suits them.
 
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Just find a different hobby? Do you really need to own a gun? Fair enough you are using them for a harmless act(if you like target shooting), but does it really bother you that much that you wouldn't just be willing to give them up, when people's lives are potentially at stake?
 
Conor said:
Just find a different hobby? Do you really need to own a gun? Fair enough you are using them for a harmless act(if you like target shooting), but does it really bother you that much that you wouldn't just be willing to give them up, when people's lives are potentially at stake?
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No offense but the "do you really need to own a gun" argument is faecetious. Do people really need to consume alcohol? Many more people suffer serious health consequences or death from alcohol than guns in this country. People are free to engage in any legal activity they wish. We have a bigger problem with drunk driving than gun violence. As noted, most of the guns "banned" today were already heavily controlled as outlined above.

The facts in Canada are that licensed individuals are not a risk to other Canadians. Unlike America we have very strict gun control. Almost all of our gun crime is committed with guns smuggled in from the US and used by people who don't have a license to possess a firearm. The current government prefers to ignore those facts and have been pursuing this agenda since the mid 1990s.

What's significantly upsetting is the government robbing me of $6000 worth of formerly legal sporting equipment and threatening me with criminality at the stroke of a pen. I've already sacrificed many rights just to be a licensed individual here. My government thinks of me as a murderer in waiting. This is something people don't grasp.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
No offense but the "do you really need to own a gun" argument is faecetious. Do people really need to consume alcohol? Many more people suffer serious health consequences or death from alcohol than guns in this country. People are free to engage in any legal activity they wish. We have a bigger problem with drunk driving than gun violence. As noted, most of the guns "banned" today were already heavily controlled as outlined above.

The facts in Canada are that licensed individuals are not a risk to other Canadians. Unlike America we have very strict gun control. Almost all of our gun crime is committed with guns smuggled in from the US and used by people who don't have a license to possess a firearm. The current government prefers to ignore those facts and have been pursuing this agenda since the mid 1990s.

What's significantly upsetting is the government robbing me of $6000 worth of formerly legal sporting equipment and threatening me with criminality at the stroke of a pen. I've already sacrificed many rights just to be a licensed individual here. My government thinks of me as a murderer in waiting. This is something people don't grasp.
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I don't think you can really compare alcohol to guns from a lethality perspective in that way, alcohol can't really be used as a weapon of immediate destruction like guns can. Also, guns weren't really invented to have a function other than killing people, things like hunting and target shooting are just additional functions of a gun. You don't need to own a gun for anything in life, in my opinion, at least in a country like Canada.
 
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Conor said:
I don't think you can really compare alcohol to guns from a lethality perspective in that way, alcohol can't really be used as a weapon of immediate destruction like guns can. Also, guns weren't really invented to have a function other than killing people, things like hunting and target shooting are just additional functions of a gun. You don't need to own a gun for anything in life, in my opinion, at least in a country like Canada.
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Right. Let's talk about lethality.

In 2014, alcohol contributed to 14,826 deaths in Canada

In 2014, Police reported 156 firearm-related homicides

As for weapons of immediate destruction, have you read about how Marco Muzzo took out three generations of family a few years back while driving drunk. He's now out on day parole.
 
It depends on who the people are. I don't own a gun and don't want to own a gun. Yes I have friends who own guns but all of them have hunting rifles or shot guns.
It depends on the province. It's not difficult to get a gun licence here. Yes it's true that a lot of guns are smuggled across the Border but a lot of people who are licenced too have unregistered banned guns.
No one is stopping anyone having a gun. Guns that could be used for hunting and target shooting etc. There is a organization like the NRA in the US here in Canada too.
I don't want anyone having an automatic or semi automatic. The government has done well to ban it.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Right. Let's talk about lethality.

In 2014, alcohol contributed to 14,826 deaths in Canada

In 2014, Police reported 156 firearm-related homicides

As for weapons of immediate destruction, have you read about how Marco Muzzo took out three generations of family a few years back while driving drunk. He's now out on day parole.
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I just think this is whataboutism to be honest, do you really need a gun? Would you not be willing to give up gun ownership if it potentially would stop people like the guy in Nova Scotia having easier access to guns? I always thought guns were really interesting from a technical perspective growing up, had loads of pellet guns etc., but I would never, ever want to own an actual gun, and I would never want it to be easy to own a gun in my country, just because of the slim chance that things like a random mass shooting might be easier to carry out because of it.

Maybe I just don't understand your perspective because I live in a country that doesn't have any real form of gun culture, but they just seem like completely superfluous items to me, that nobody should see grounds to complain about not being able to own.
 
Foxbatt said:
It depends on who the people are. I don't own a gun and don't want to own a gun. Yes I have friends who own guns but all of them have hunting rifles or shot guns.
It depends on the province. It's not difficult to get a gun licence here. Yes it's true that a lot of guns are smuggled across the Border but a lot of people who are licenced too have unregistered banned guns.
No one is stopping anyone having a gun. Guns that could be used for hunting and target shooting etc. There is a organization like the NRA in the US here in Canada too.
I don't want anyone having an automatic or semi automatic. The government has done well to ban it.
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Sorry mate you have no idea what you're talking about. Every person with a PAL or RPAL goes through thh same process across Canada. It takes months to get a licence. Every applicant fgoes through a background and reference check. If you have a criminal record it's unlikely that you'll get one. If you commit a criminal act your licence will likely be revoked. The RCMP revoke around 2000 licences each year.

People with unregistered restricted or prohibited firearms are committing a criminal offence and should be reported. As for smuggling, it's the biggest contributor, acknowledged by the Toronto Police Service.

We don't have anything close to the NRA here.

Automatic firearms have been banned for close to thirty years. Any existing ones are deactivated as per law. You don't want people having semiautomatics. Next they'll be arguing we only need 300 year old muzzle loading rifles to hunt because safety.

Come back when you've read and understood the relevant sections of the Criminal Code and Firearms Act. In the meantime, the RCMP publish loads of relevant data on their firearms program each year, why not educate yourself about the true state of gun control in Canada instead of believing the government's half truths and outright lies? Remember, as I've said a few times now, possession of a firearm for all Candians is already prohibited by the Criminal Code of Canada Section 88 (1) "Every person commits an offence who carries or possesses a weapon, an imitation of a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition for a purpose dangerous to the public peace or for the purpose of committing an offence. "
 
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Conor said:
I just think this is whataboutism to be honest, do you really need a gun? Would you not be willing to give up gun ownership if it potentially would stop people like the guy in Nova Scotia having easier access to guns? I always thought guns were really interesting from a technical perspective growing up, had loads of pellet guns etc., but I would never, ever want to own an actual gun, and I would never want it to be easy to own a gun in my country, just because of the slim chance that things like a random mass shooting might be easier to carry out because of it.

Maybe I just don't understand your perspective because I live in a country that doesn't have any real form of gun culture, but they just seem like completely superfluous items to me, that nobody should see grounds to complain about not being able to own.
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That's whataboutism, too. I am legally allowed to possess, acquire and use firearms according to strict conditions.

The guy in Nova Scotia acquired his firearms illegally in the United States and smuggled them into Canada, breaking the law in two countries. How does this legislation, indeed, any of Canada's gun control stop that? They are looking to solve the wrong problem.

It is not easy to own a gun here. Trust me. As demonstrated it takes time, money and a sacrifice of some of your democratic rights (unreasonable search and seizure, presumption of innocence, privacy). It also demands a serious degree of care and respect for your community to use them safely and responsibly. They're fecking dangerous.
 
I have every right to have to say I don't want relax gun control. It's your opinion vs mine. One vote. I support this stance by the government though I don't vote liberal.
 
Foxbatt said:
I have every right to have to say I don't want relax gun control. It's your opinion vs mine. One vote. I support this stance by the government though I don't vote liberal.
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I'm not saying you don't have the right to express that opinion. I'm saying you don't know the true scope of Canada's gun control before today. It was quite sufficient. This change will not improve the safety of Canadians one iota. Many people will retain these guns despite what you've been presented with by the PM today.
 
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