Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017

Seeing all sorts on social media, not sure what's true and what's not. Saw something saying that some survivors were being put up in an almost identical tower block covered in cladding. The news just said that nobody has seen hide nor hair of the 'high vis' officials who are supposed to be on the ground coordinating things now. That lady on Marr this morning saying that charities and volunteers are winging it as best they can, and that there's nobody holding the whole thing together.

This whole episode is being handled like it happened in the third world. Only I think NGOs would have had a handle on things by now.
 
Oscie said:
Incredible response from govt today that seemed to want to wait for 'expert' advice and the result of a public inquiry to determine whether water puts out fire.

Expect all tower blocks built 20+ years ago will be demolished in the next few years.
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It's not as simple as that though because heat and fire also dry out water. The fire service were there very quickly but their water had little effect. Depends really on the flamability of the cladding but sprinklers may have slowed things down a fair bit.

We may be right in everything we say but it's still sensible to wait for the experts to assess everything. Facts are better than assumptions and none of us are experts.
 
Badunk said:
This whole episode is being handled like it happened in the third world. Only I think NGOs would have had a handle on things by now.
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Yep, complete shambles.

I hope the inquiry looks at the response to the disaster from the authorities, as well as obviously getting to the bottom of all the underlying causes.
 
Red Defence said:
It's not as simple as that though because heat and fire also dry out water. The fire service were there very quickly but their water had little effect. Depends really on the flamability of the cladding but sprinklers may have slowed things down a fair bit.

We may be right in everything we say but it's still sensible to wait for the experts to assess everything. Facts are better than assumptions and none of us are experts.
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Yeah, the coating of the cladding was waterproof. So the cladding was very flammable and water resistant which made it much, much harder to put out the fire and hence why it ended up taking up to three days.
 
Damien said:
Yeah, the coating of the cladding was waterproof. So the cladding was very flammable and water resistant which made it much, much harder to put out the fire and hence why it ended up taking up to three days.
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Ah yes...forgotten about it being waterproof.

Wouldn't like to be part of the building company who carried out this work. Have we heard from them?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
RBKC is fecking awash with cash too. They've been sending out council tax refunds because they end up with so much of their budget left at the end of the year.
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They are the richest borough in the country. They also contain wards amongst the poorest 10% in the whole UK, such as Notting Dale where Grenfell is located.

The council has £300m in cash reserves, growing every year. Yet instead of using all this cash to help the deprived people living in their area, they give big council tax rebates (only to the well off, of course) to buy votes. It is everything that is wrong with London. Truly disgusting.
 
Red Defence said:
Ah yes...forgotten about it being waterproof.

Wouldn't like to be part of the building company who carried out this work. Have we heard from them?
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One report said that the cladding sub-contractors declared bankruptcy after completing the job. I don't think any of the main contractors have made any statements yet, though it looks like some of their (current or ex) staff may have leaked some details. I doubt that their legal advisors would let them say anything outside the official inquiries, even if they wanted to.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Sorry I was just doing sums from the confirmed rescues, the confirmed fatalities against the estimates of number of people that were in the block being banded about.

Anyway, I found this in The Mirror that states the emergency services are just following established procedure.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/what-official-death-toll-grenfell-10641711
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Yeah, that's fair. I dislike the endless amounts of conspiracy theories thrown around at times like this when mostly it's just incompetence. But I do think that the reason there are so many around this is because people do know the situation in blocks/areas like this and they know the council/government knows what goes on, yet when something happens everyone acts with shock.

The event itself is so tragic, I went right by the building on friday morning and it was just harrowing, but the aftermath and the fact there are people still on the streets is nothing short of a national disgrace. No wonder people are angry.
 
Red Defence said:
It's not as simple as that though because heat and fire also dry out water. The fire service were there very quickly but their water had little effect. Depends really on the flamability of the cladding but sprinklers may have slowed things down a fair bit.

We may be right in everything we say but it's still sensible to wait for the experts to assess everything. Facts are better than assumptions and none of us are experts.
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Of course sprinklers couldn't have put out the fire that it had become but maybe would be effective in putting our small fires before they spread.
 
Penna said:
Have the council moved these poor people into hotel rooms yet? If not, it's a disgrace.
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May depend on how many hotel rooms are available. 2 of my neighbours are on holiday in London at the moment. It's a busy time of year and they are booked heavily with business people during the week. If they want to be in local hotels too could be more difficult.

The whole rehousing will be difficult because there is a constant waiting list for London housing.
 
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jojojo said:
One report said that the cladding sub-contractors declared bankruptcy after completing the job. I don't think any of the main contractors have made any statements yet, though it looks like some of their (current or ex) staff may have leaked some details. I doubt that their legal advisors would let them say anything outside the official inquiries, even if they wanted to.
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Bankruptcy! Wow! That's a bad sign.
 
Red Defence said:
Yes, it may have put out the original fire.
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Probably unlikely if the fire is thought to have started in a kitchen and the sprinklers would presumably be in the stairwells.
You'd certainly rather have them than not have them though.
 
Nuts said:
Hammond's clearly a principled man but sticking to his line that 'sprinklers may not have helped' is just crazy...
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How is it crazy?
A) The fire clearly spread from the outside of the building (cladding) inwards and upwards. Sprinklers wouldnt have stopped this.
B) Sprinklers are generally only used in the communal areas (hallways) anyway not in individual flats.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
How is it crazy?
A) The fire clearly spread from the outside of the building (cladding) inwards and upwards. Sprinklers wouldnt have stopped this.
B) Sprinklers are generally only used in the communal areas (hallways) anyway not in individual flats.
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What qualifications do you have to make these statements?

If none, can you provide any citations to back up your claims?
 
GloryHunter07 said:
How is it crazy?
A) The fire clearly spread from the outside of the building (cladding) inwards and upwards. Sprinklers wouldnt have stopped this.
B) Sprinklers are generally only used in the communal areas (hallways) anyway not in individual flats.
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I think the fire was burning through the fire doors into the communal areas, sprinklers would help keep them clearer
 
Paget-feckwit-Brown still in full flow

(screenshot pic rather than link as it's the Mail)

DCnCbmzXYAAjl4j.jpg
 
Rams said:
Rather than making this a witch hunt against Theresa feckin May, can we get this thread back to the real issue here that is how on earth it was possible that polyethylene cladding was used in Grenfell Tower?
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Silva said:
Every single aspect of this tragedy is political. From a council which has completely failed to listen to it's most vulnerable members, a government which has failed in its regulations and a prime minister completely out of touch with ordinary people. The fire was preventable, yet has claimed the lives of dozens of people. The response to it has been completely shambolic and rage inducing.
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sammsky1 said:
So what? This thread does not exist to meet your requirements.

Also what @Silva said
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No it doesn't but it'd be nice to be able to find an update about the actual victims and survivors instead of having to trawl through pages about what @Rams said.

Harrisamo said:
As countless others have already said, it is an inherently political issue. Why someone would actively try and steer the conversation away from exploring the deeper issues is beyond me. People discussing this and having these conversations serves the victims and the public in general far better than online platitudes ever will.
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I'm not actively trying to steer the conversation away at all, I just wanted to see an actual update.No worries.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
How is it crazy?
A) The fire clearly spread from the outside of the building (cladding) inwards and upwards. Sprinklers wouldnt have stopped this.
B) Sprinklers are generally only used in the communal areas (hallways) anyway not in individual flats.
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Sprinklers would have cleared some of the smoke in the stairways/hallways and cooled them down for people to get out.
 
Red Defence said:
No government can magic 100+ empty and ready-to-move-into council houses out of nowhere. They will be offered houses in other parts of the country if they have relatives there or if they say they are willing to move elsewhere. Either way it will take time.
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The council has £300M in the bank, they can easily afford to rehouse everyone in the area.
 
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