Is there actually any update in this thread about what actually happened and how the victims are because I can't be bothered reading pages and pages about all the other stuff in here?
Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017
- Thread starter Cheesy
- Start date
Might just be me, but I'm struggling to see, how the fire and any governmental figures are related to each other and thereby affecting people's political stand.
It's not really about how she conducts her visits, it's the fact that her first visit was to the scene of the incident, speaking to just those in the emergency services and not speaking to any of the relatives, victims or community members. That simply isn't going to portray a good picture of you. Regardless of what she does, people will have in mind her first move and that's where my issue lies with her on this. Private visits are fine, not everyone can do the I'll give you a hug Corbyn way of doing things, but at least show that your first concern is with those directly affected.
It's at the very least related to local government: the residents had been complaining for a considerable period of time on the matter, and their complaints were ignored to the point where they openly said it would take something such as this to highlight the problem. Then we saw a councillor coming out and trying to justify their actions by saying the residents didn't want sprinklers, anyway.
Whether it's goes higher than at a local level is another thing, but any incident such as this in which the nature of the housing was partly responsible for the death toll will inherently take on a political context.
She's just cold. Cold and ruthless.
Does seem like shes lost a lot of confidence
Ruthless? Ruthless like a dog with no teeth
I didn't say it was a bad idea. It would be incredibly expensive though. What are the cheapest apartments worth round there £2m+? That said, you would expect some type of insurance policy to have been taken out.
Well what he actually did as leader of the opposition was already more ministerial than May. Even Kahn put himself out there despite the fact he was obviously going to be subject to the ire of the affected.
Beyond that she could have had a less calculated and more emotional response. Demand answers, forget politics for a little while and which of her friends she might upsets and ensure that there will be accountability. Actually fecking care and not just give the same shitty responses she's given for the last 2 months I guess. I suppose you can't fake empathy though so at least she's staking true to herself.
That I get. Probably need to rephrase then:
I don't get why your new old prime minister is getting a knock in ratings because of this. Unless she herself didn't want to pay for the sprinklers or she burned the match.
The government's response has been poor at best; May herself has now acknowledged this. We're days on and some people still haven't been given alternative accommodation yet. May was cowardly in her response, first off only having a 'private' appearance at the scene of the event, not meeting those affected, before then practically sprinting to her car in fear last night, as if she was utterly terrified of confronting those involved.
Additionally, many feel that more Tory attitudes re regulation and safety are related to this; years back Cameron himself said accidents were inevitable and that he wanted to reduce the whole 'safety culture' approach, while the Tories as a whole tend to be for deregulation, which has been exposed as a faulty approach when we see what's happened here.
Fecking finally.
George Osbourne and his cronies would disagree. Her blunt answer in parliament when asked if she would be prepared to kill hundreds of thousands of people if need be says it all. She has poor people skills, she's not comfortable amongst the working class but she's definitely ruthless if needs be imho.
I think it's a fair guess to say all those things would have been better under Corbyn. For all his many, many faults - I am not a fan of his - you have to concede that he's very effective at marshalling a coordinated effort on the ground, as seen in the election campaign with Labour grassroots mobilised, and he's pretty good at navigating local politics.
Corbyn left wing nutjobs at it, sure to see Russell Brand, Lily Allen and rest of the conspiracy theorist loonies there
If he is any good at coordinating a practical response on the ground to a major disaster like this is a completey different matter though. If we are playing party politics, what powers does Khan have as mayor to influence the response on the ground?
Doubt that actually happened. Probably stood outside the hospital ward talking to some of the nurses. Find it hard to believe she had it in her to talk to some grieving families at length.
This was a seperate meeting at downing street.
Talk's cheap. Any small man with a god complex can claim he'd use nuclear weapons if the need arises. In fact it's even easier than that because you just write a letter in advance to the marine commanders. Talk is cheap.
As for George Osbourne? I wouldn't exactly call that being ruthless. One major political removal, who was tied to the previous prime minister.
She's a weak PM. Somehow brought a broken Labour party back together rather than killing it off.
New Conspiracy Theory
source: Twitter
it's getting about time the building fell over because the number of deaths can then be kept down from the totally ludicrous figures some are suggesting it is (300-400) <--- won't be allowed
source: Twitter
it's getting about time the building fell over because the number of deaths can then be kept down from the totally ludicrous figures some are suggesting it is (300-400) <--- won't be allowed
Oh that one. My bad.
Are you saying the official police figure of 58 still missing is a lie?
I don't know what to say but I am puzzled by the figures.
Surely it is relatively easy, although time consuming, to identify all the residents and find which ones are still missing. The building managers will have the names and details of all residents, plus family and friends will be looking for them. Unless there are hundreds of illegal tennants living that have no one looking for them, which seems unlikely.
Aye, in theory & some are owner-occupiers, so that should be easy enough. But tenancies get passed on & stuff. And some subletting & some people who won't be missed by anyone. We don't know the extent of that.
I think 58 missing is low, there's probably a fair few more than that in there.
58 as officially missing, fair enough, not a lie exactly. The dead ones can't report other each other though, can they?
I've been seeing on Facebook that the death toll isn't correct even though the media keeps saying "we expect the number to rise". People just want to create a conspiracy around everything.
But undocumented and without a friend or family in the world looking for them will surely be a lower number.
I'm not an expert on UK politics, but here are three things that you are expected to do after such a tragedy:
1. Provide all available resources to minimize the number of causalities and the amount of monetary damage.
2. Talk to people. Yes, go there and show that someone with power has got their backs. Hug and embrace.
3. Provide the fastest possible fix, rebuilding, etc. This obviously takes time, but show the willingness to do it.
In October 30, 2012 (4 days before the election), a massive storm (Sandy) hit the U.S. East Coast. Obama flew as quickly as he could to the Coast, teamed up with Republican governor Chris Christie, met people, hugged peopled, embraced, etc. He also set a rule: every call by an affected person should be answered within 15 minutes despite the expectation of a massive number of calls, disruptions in communications and so on. Chris Christie had only good words about Obama... and the latter swept the swing states. He of course didn't win only because of that, but he showed real leadership, bipartisanship, compassion, etc. Such response reduced the chance for a public anger and prevented any altercations like those that we saw in London.
People want to see this type of pictures:
(Imagine this woman finding herself without a house. It's tough, but when the leader of the country and the governor of the state come there and show that they care, your response will be different.)
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@ManUtd1999
4 - The government should have a plan in place for emergencies.
4 - The government should have a plan in place for emergencies.
This one too.
Who is the UK version of Chris Christie?
She should be given the highest award UK can give for that feat. It would have been a disaster had Labour been wiped out. Most likely become a one party state without a credible opposition.
Not sure, but if I were Theresa May, I would call Jeremy Corbyn and ask him to join me in the visit to the community, particularly given the results of the election.
A leader should show that he/she cares and put politics aside in situations like these. The UK had multiple tragedies in recent weeks, and May had to bring people together. From what I read, she failed.
This kind of sick activity will hopefully never happen again.
Yup. Isn't it normal protocol though. For opposing party leaders to visit the community together.
That's not actually a half bad idea.
From my perspective, politicians should be judged upon how they do politics in and outside of their country. If they're not the most pleasing people, well it blows, but then it's more a personal feat.
Churchill wasn't the most pleasing person in the world - hell from what I've read, he'd probably handled this worse than May. But he was a good politician at the important issues. Make a football analogy - A manager might not have the best way of dealing with his players, but if he is your leader you'd be best of supporting him.
Finally. If all this comes down to people wanting to point their frustration and anger of this horrible and tragic event, and then choosing whatever targets fits the majority most, then I get it. But the other way around seems unfair in my opinion.
I expect that to be the norm, and that's why I'm surprised it didn't happen. In fairness, I don't know if she has invited him, but if she didn't, that would a miscalculation on her part. Politically, if the visit goes well, she will be seen as non-partisan during tough times, bringing the country together and so on. If the visit goes badly (as it did), then the anger will be seen against both (not necessarily equally).
BTW, look what Paul Ryan and Nancy Pelosi (the top Republican and the top Democrat in the House, respectively) did this week following the shooting in Virginia:
