Can't argue with any of that. There is certainly that feeling that things are spiraling out of control in this country. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I do feel as though some of these concerns/issues can at least be controlled and I don't think May has or will provide it for us.
Grenfell Tower Fire | 14th June 2017
- Thread starter Cheesy
- Start date
At the time it looked like groups were fighting each other.
What looks to have happened is a group of trouble makers attacked the cameraman, others stepped in to help the cameraman and then the thugs started attacking the others in the crowd.
I'd say something as simple as not visiting the victims first. If her visits were done in reverse order, or even is she met some of the emergency services staff and victims yesterday then I don't think you'd have people as upset as they are now.
I think it's rather unnecessarily caused people to get even more riled up as they see the leader of the country as someone who doesn't really care. Ultimately the parties you mentioned are and should be the centre of attention for this particular incident, but to me May has handled it poorly.
You can argue whether showing face actually matters, but from an emotional point of view, people care.
Most likely people from the SWP. Although the central London protest did seem to enact a planned stoppage outside the BBC earlier.
As i said in an earlier post though, the presence of residents/locals outside the town hall was quite understandable. I can't even recall a single televised statement from the leader of the council, let alone a sit-down meeting with community representatives. Imagine if he's announced inspections of all other high-rises in the borough yesterday morning. Sure, he'd still be on thin ice, but such duties are part of his job (and local government in general).
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Well said.I feel sorry for those in here who think anyone who didn't live in the tower or have someone they know die shouldn't be angered by this.
If you read any of the reports you'd hear the community has been angry at the tory council for a while and it should be no fecking surprise that the idea of children dying during the night because of poor maintenance on buildings under their control has people pissed off..but hey they must just be a Mob because they want their voice listened to
This really is this generations Hillsborough
Weren't there no casulties in the Dubai fire, likely because of investment in safety.
The Tory government deregulated fire safety regulation and ignored reports of risks:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ty-warnings-ignored-tower-block-a7790501.html
Note:
The coroner's report into Lakanal House had recommended regulations be updated, and called for developers refurbishing high-rise blocks to be encouraged to install sprinkler systems.
But five years later, Mr Lewis told MPs: “We believe that it is the responsibility of the fire industry, rather than the Government, to market fire sprinkler systems effectively and to encourage their wider installation.”
He added: “The cost of fitting a fire sprinkler system may affect house building – something we want to encourage – so we must wait to see what impact that regulation has.”
Also:
Following the fire, the group posted: “All our warnings fell on deaf ears and we predicted that a catastrophe like this was inevitable and just a matter of time.”
Weren't there no casulties in the Dubai fire, likely because of investment in safety.
The Tory government deregulated fire safety regulation and ignored reports of risks:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ty-warnings-ignored-tower-block-a7790501.html
Note:
The coroner's report into Lakanal House had recommended regulations be updated, and called for developers refurbishing high-rise blocks to be encouraged to install sprinkler systems.
But five years later, Mr Lewis told MPs: “We believe that it is the responsibility of the fire industry, rather than the Government, to market fire sprinkler systems effectively and to encourage their wider installation.”
He added: “The cost of fitting a fire sprinkler system may affect house building – something we want to encourage – so we must wait to see what impact that regulation has.”
Also:
Following the fire, the group posted: “All our warnings fell on deaf ears and we predicted that a catastrophe like this was inevitable and just a matter of time.”
They actually don't meet fire regulations, all shamefully done under a Tory council who didn't bother to come out after the event.
The council leader definitely needs to step up. He's done a few interviews but needs to handle this much better.
Needs to be much more visible and work with the community to help them in any way he can and to offer guarantees and quick action.
Confirmed? Link?
He's probably too busy thinking which of his developer mates he can flog the newly vacated plot of land to, and how many luxury flats can be built on it, if you know anything about Kensington council.
Right, but the council are claiming the sprinklers were offered but the residents "collectively" rejected them. The issue then is that still fault of the council as a duty of care for not enforcing installation against the residents wishes or is blame people are searching for dilated
Cladding isn't a hazard unless if it's made from fire resistant material. If they spent £2 per sq/m more they could have had fire resistent cladding and the death toll never would have happened.
Which is propoganda, the resident groups were begging for fire alarms and sprinkler systems, which were all ignored.
Blaming the residents, don't you feel a tad bit shameful right now?
Like I say, it's Hillsborough all over again and the Tories victim blaming, scumbags.
Yeah i do have some sympathy, im not sure she's capable of what's needed from her and she's only staying now out of duty to her party really.
i have read differently, do you have evidences of this?
It's in this very thread, from either the council or contractor (probably the council as the contractor went bust). They initially claimed all fire safety measures were met and then they retracted it. You'll find it if you look.
Backlash would be considerable if the land was sold.
I posted about it a few days ago
When put in the context of a £9m budget, that doesn't seem to support your accusations with regard to broader austerity policies. Misuse of the money is another story.
I was joking. Half joking. I wouldn't put it past them.
Another poster said he was asked that question in an interview and was evasive in his response.
Well there's a ton of metres and austerity means they goto the lowest cost regardless of safety.
May isn't even admitting the flamable cladding was a problem stating "let's wait for the results of the enquiry", which absolutely SCREAMS "COVER UP"!!!! If they don't renovate every highrise with the same issues they're essentially endorsing this massacre.
Its a question, not a statement. Maybe "blame" should not have been used in the wording, but people are looking for someone to take responsibility and there are loads of accusations flying about, one being that sprinkler installation was avoided due to sparing funds. which the council claim they didn't do.
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Just seen another 20 tower bĺocks across the capital are using the same cladding material.
The goverment needs to action a plan to rectify this immediately, i know driving a car is probably a bigger risk but still would you feel safe putting your kids to sleep in one of those buildings tonight?
The goverment needs to action a plan to rectify this immediately, i know driving a car is probably a bigger risk but still would you feel safe putting your kids to sleep in one of those buildings tonight?
I'm sorry, but you're austerity line just doesn't seem to stand up to scrutiny for me. Decision making locally, and regulatory failures over three decades nationally, are where the focus needs to be. For example, i would be quite surprised if this type of cladding doesn't soon fall under a similar ban to other countries (already should've been so but we can't change that now).
So not, then, that such comments by a prime minister could prejudice a future court case, potentially endangering any prosecutions?
Stay classy, Clive.
It's a completely fine comment.
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Could you go further in to why these comments are so offensive?
I've seen a few folks be very unimpressed with them.
I am not entirely sure - as one who thinks free market capitalism is an idea that needs to be dispensed with and a thing that played a significant role in the deaths we are mourning.
When the people believe that you and your type are callous, self serving and out to brutalise them for profit, you can show your face, take the hit (regardless of how unjustified it is) and work to convince them otherwise; or you can run and hide and confirm their beliefs.
Khan fronted up took the shit and is now in a position to do something. May has lost control. These people are supposed to fecking serve us! This is politics and the Labour Mayor, previous Tory mayor, the council and government of all colours need to be held accountable for the way they work.
Khan fronted up took the shit and is now in a position to do something. May has lost control. These people are supposed to fecking serve us! This is politics and the Labour Mayor, previous Tory mayor, the council and government of all colours need to be held accountable for the way they work.
Crass usage of a tragedy, politicisation for persona gain, incitement of an already volatile situation...
Making a case for the former two wouldn't be overly difficult in my opinion.
You'll have to pardon me for not considering incompetence or greed to be sole products of modern neoliberalism.
Does not Lewis have tower blocks in Norwich for which he should perhaps be most concerned? The same could well be applied to all of our MPs in fact.
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The argument that this "shouldn't be politicised" is dead in the water to be honest. The deliberate negligence means it's inherently political. Whether neoliberal politics is responsible or not is another matter, but when we see old quotes from David Cameron talking about how relaxing regulations are good and how things like this are largely inevitable, and when we see a councillor trying to justify the lack of action by saying the residents didn't want sprinklers anyway, I can see why people are pissed. And when it's tied to housing, an issue that is again inherently political, I think people should be able to make political points without being accused of doing it for crass gain, unless their intentions are particularly obvious.
But that tweet does not bear upon any of those issues directly. Not is it the case that his politicisation is even to some specific gain: the release of the Lakanal Report, a nationwide inspection of tower blocks, a cross-party investigation into cladding, the preparedness of emergency services/councils elsewhere e.t.c.
We all know that Lewis is a possible replacement for Corbyn some day, and language such as he has used is going to be very appealing to a section of the Labour membership.
Isn't that a contradictory statement? If you don't think May can handle this divided society we have become, how and who will control it?
Bringing this back onto thread topic, the sheer amount of abuse she is getting for her initial reaction to this tragedy along with the kicking she got in the election is the absolute worst preparation for starting BrExit talks and healing a divided country, albeit both instances totally self inflicted.
This country is in real trouble right now and I can foresee yet more seismic miscalculations which will handicap us for a generation. No matter ones political orientation, the entire country need to support her for a short period - just hope she can somehow get her mojo and score some quick and immediate wins to restore some confide win her, or we will enter an unprecedented power vacuum during the most important period of our recent history. I'm genuinely concerned.
How close are we to some serious civil unrest?
As the initial shock begins to turn into anger and a more realistic death toll is confirmed to be 100-150 people dead, I suspect impromptu protests will turn into mass and organised demonstrations demanding instant gratification.
How does one police such anger? It's going to be incredibly difficult for police to stop violence without being violent themselves. This weekend and early next week might get very ugly.
As the initial shock begins to turn into anger and a more realistic death toll is confirmed to be 100-150 people dead, I suspect impromptu protests will turn into mass and organised demonstrations demanding instant gratification.
How does one police such anger? It's going to be incredibly difficult for police to stop violence without being violent themselves. This weekend and early next week might get very ugly.
She's a feckin joke. The worst PM in history.
The real question that needs to be answered is why did successive governments not act with regards to fire regulations? Particularly disturbing is the fact the government promised a review after the Lakanal House report and then failed to do so. Why? Are they putting the interests of the developers and construction workers over that of the general public?!?!
Again the issue here is the combustible cladding used and not the lack of sprinkler installation. By using combustible cladding they created a tinderbox. That reaction of the councilor who tried to blame the residents is scandalous! And Theresa May should openly admit the truth rather than trying to avoid it.
We need a full public inquiry in to fire regulations and criminal charges brought to those responsible for the renovation of Grenfel Tower.
Again the issue here is the combustible cladding used and not the lack of sprinkler installation. By using combustible cladding they created a tinderbox. That reaction of the councilor who tried to blame the residents is scandalous! And Theresa May should openly admit the truth rather than trying to avoid it.
We need a full public inquiry in to fire regulations and criminal charges brought to those responsible for the renovation of Grenfel Tower.
This isn't very much to do with Theresa May - she isn't terribly good in her role but that isn't the major issue, atm. Unless, back to that in a minute...
It's not about underfunding either strictly speaking. They had money to spend & botched the improvement project. I do think she's protecting chums at Kensington Council however, who's performance seems to have continued to be piss-poor in the aftermath of this disaster. A better target than May would be Gavin Barwell or possibly Cameron for suggesting rules & regulation was holding back commerce or somesuch.
Also not helping is that there is no proper Government in place at the moment or we would have Parliament debating this & much more info in the public domain as a result. I wonder if a Public Inquiry will limit MP scrutiny here because the stock answer is now going to be, ''let's wait for Judge Wotsit to report before blah blah blah...''. Mrs May might be defensively politicking the thing that way around certainly I would suspect.
I will remain a fierce critic of the 'stay put' idea - I just think it's quite obviously stupid, particularly if you're being told to stay put at floor levels higher than fires can be effectively fought at, or even reached inside of a time-frame that would make some sense of it.
It's not about underfunding either strictly speaking. They had money to spend & botched the improvement project. I do think she's protecting chums at Kensington Council however, who's performance seems to have continued to be piss-poor in the aftermath of this disaster. A better target than May would be Gavin Barwell or possibly Cameron for suggesting rules & regulation was holding back commerce or somesuch.
Also not helping is that there is no proper Government in place at the moment or we would have Parliament debating this & much more info in the public domain as a result. I wonder if a Public Inquiry will limit MP scrutiny here because the stock answer is now going to be, ''let's wait for Judge Wotsit to report before blah blah blah...''. Mrs May might be defensively politicking the thing that way around certainly I would suspect.
I will remain a fierce critic of the 'stay put' idea - I just think it's quite obviously stupid, particularly if you're being told to stay put at floor levels higher than fires can be effectively fought at, or even reached inside of a time-frame that would make some sense of it.
Ok so its not actually confirmed, someone has just omitted some wording from a statement which is entirely different.
The building was originally designed that a fire would be contained in the area where it started. Basically it consisted of 100's of separate fire compartments. By plastering combustible cladding on the outside they made the original design obsolete and created a death trap. In other words, staying put was the best thing to do had they not used combustible cladding.
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