He'd be doing a better job than Antony and Sancho.
Greenwood (Out) - signs for Getafe on loan
- Thread starter Reapersoul20
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
- Status
That’s an interesting article, thanks for sharing.
Genuine question, does anybody know has Greenwood ever been assessed for mental/psychological/educational/behavioural disabilities? The article certain paints a picture of a young man who needs extra support. There seems to have been plenty of allowances made and issues covered up but has the club ever given him that kind of support that he might need?
Just a very sad situation all round.
So would Messi.
What else is there to say?? ....he won't be playing for us again.
This is the transfer forum. This is the thread to discuss his transfer.
yes it was.
It actually fecking says “MG’s known behaviour was clearly that of many normal teenagers, until the “unknown” arrived in the public domain.”
Your unknown was unknown to me
The unknown was unknown to everyone accept him & his missus it appears.
Were they known unknowns or unknown unknowns? Or, unknown knowns?
I don't think everyone accepted him, that's why there was a big furore and why he won't play for us anymore.
Still no club rumoured to sign him?
With the way you're downplaying and twisting stuff maybe you should hold off on using phrases like "filled with bias".
Anyway, the article isn't trying to make it out as if MG was a potential criminal in the making and it's not about isolated incidents that any teenage boy could've done, it simply paints an overall picture of a young man that has been struggling for a long time and never really matured enough to be able to deal with situations in the manner that's expected of him.
"he was always a complex lad. Fragile with a childlike brain. Seventeen going on 14 really. It doesn't surprise me that he has struggled.".
"Because his (Gazza's) brain isn't wired like everybody else. He doesn't have bit that tells him to conform or to listen or to stop. There are others like that, too, and one is Mason Greenwood. Some of them, when they are so talented in one area, seem to suffer from other parts of their personality not really developing. 'Mason has a childlike mind. He is being judged like an adult when in reality he is much younger."
"Phil was devastated,' revealed an England source. 'Mason? He couldn't really understand what he had done wrong and said so on the plane home."
It seems that ETH was planning for a MG comeback. Now there is not much competition for Höjlund or Antony. Not a good position to be in.
Think of it this way - why do Utd not want to keep him, honestly?
Answer - Simply PR. Nothing else.
And how much PR resources do Utd have vs most clubs?
Answer - a lot more.
Thus, the way it’s been handled - leaving it until literally the last few weeks of the window and then cack handling his reintroduction, then bottling it and booting him means no one will take him.
If Utd can’t take the PR hit, no one else can.
If he’d been released 6 months ago. No doubt the player and his partner would’ve done some PR together and gradually eased the situation and I think by now (6 months later) a good team would take him on.
He and his family have been completely fecked over by Utd’s ‘handling’ of it - specifically, obviously promising him a return and then u-turning at literally the last minute.
Yep. Would have Covered both.
This is what does not sit right with me. They declared "they have a duty of care." But the process has wasted so much time and this is precious time.
I wonder if Ten Hag can produce a contact for him to go to a club in the Netherlands on loan?
He is now in como.ete limbo, but so is the club. You have owners that delegated the responsibility to Richad Arnold ( this does not emancipate him from complete blame) and you have members of staff torn over the issue.
I notice you post in the "club sale" section regularly. My Mum (who does not support United) obviously being a female said they have done this wrong and should have stuck by him given the amount of time in the investigation. She also said you need that Ratcliffe going in there, he would sort all the departments out.
That got me thinking that although I much prefer the 92 Foundation, I did also post that someone who is responsible for a company that has a turn over of 60 billion a year, would tolerate the running of a club like this. (Now I know INEOS record with sport is far from great, but he would not stand for any of this.)
Again, that we said I feel this club has deteriorated in so many departments we need Sheikh Jassim.
Going back to Greenwood, I can see the club being so desperate that they are probably asking people like Ferguson and Gill to try and pull strings.
Neil Custis said that Mason's situation could end up being resolved by the new owner. Now he has written that Jassim has got it.Maybe, if came in, he could step in say to the club we will retain him. If anyone speaks out he will say "there's the door". If the women's team speak object, he could throw money at it and say there's new facilities.
I said pretty much this numerous times in the other thread.
We likely aren't fit to give duty of care, this happened on our watch and we've fecked this up on top.
Yeah, and that would be actual scumbag moves which shows just how soulless we really are.
If we’d of been bought out a lot sooner we’d have more funds which meant we could have got 2 ST in. At the start of the summer window there was reports of ETH wanting at least 2 ST to be signed. Because we only had limited funds we could only sign 1 with the other positions we needed.
You say that, but clearly by ladymans article, there are several clear red flags about his behaviour and also his dad doesn't come across as a mature influence.
Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but it's quite obvious everyone around him were happy to let things slide because of his talent - including every one at united and look where that's got him.
Utd to carry on making utterly idiotic, weak decisions until the Glazers feck the feck off.
Greenwood… who knows, but with this recent rollercoaster ending with him being kicked to the curb like an unwanted object - I genuinely worry for the boy, like seriously worry for him.
Hopefully the last 6 months have seen him and his partner become closer and more mature together as parents but, in all honesty, I don’t think Greenwood is neuro-typical and I worry about what the effect would have on anyone, let alone someone who’s already psychologically a bit different.
Likely based on what?
Seems we are struggling to find a club. I find that sad. I have questions about who he is surrounded by and influenced by too.
I don't think new owners coming in and steamrolling everyone with money is the answer either. This lad needs proper guidance to move on in life first and foremost, let alone trying to play football in the atmosphere of a club like ours.
New owners won't change the reactions he'll receive up and down the country either. It's a pipe dream.
He doesn’t even have a proper agent.
I was thinking this earlier - he should focus on rebuilding his life and being a better person before he worries about where he is going to play football.
Exactly. I find it odd that parents who don't have any experience still have so much sway in these young lives professionally. It reminds me of the Raducanu situation in sporting ways.
But it just strikes me as so strange that this all went down on our watch, it's been long rumoured the likes of Ole basically humoured him, her dad has been a weirdo throughout. The club has u-turned on them all. Doesn't strike me as they've had the best support all round at all.
So why people think we are still the best place makes me think that's purely because we are shite and need a player like him. Because looking at the things we know, we are the worst environment who will fail them again at some point.
Everybody needs to move on. You can't hang a man twice. The vast majority wanted his MUFC career ended. His contract should be terminated. Hypocrisy to loan him out or sell him for a fee.
Would that have not been the process whilst he was suspended? Yes, there would have been a focus on his impending trial, but since February he has a become a parent.
I would have thought been a development in self regulation during that time. Yes, if he has mental health, anger issues, that takes time to receive help and manage. But there must have been discussions about his state of mind, during that time.
I found what Andy Mitten said quite patronising; "I hope he moves on and learns his lesson." He would have been learning his lesson and regretting his action over the past 18 months.
Part of moving on and "rebuilding his life" is seeking employment.
I think it’s right that once the CPS dropped the case, that United resolve the internal disciplinary process first so everyone can put this situation behind them and move forward.
Now should be the point where we support and help Mason to grow and mature.
I don’t think sadly that he should ever play for United again, but I also don’t think we should be rushing him out the door before some arbitrary deadline. Give him a few months to settle and take stock, support him and try to move him on in January.
Oh fecking boohoo, his career (like many others, for loads of reasons, his just happens to be a recording that sounded extremely like he was about to rape someone) is over
I have no sympathy.
His career, his choices. If he decided to go into a nasty foul on someone and fubar'd his ACL, I'd have no sympathy. If he set off fireworks in his bathroom and ended up burning his eye out, I'd have no sympathy.
You don't make silly mistakes and have your voice recorded saying what he said, no matter the circumstances.
I, personally, would sack him for gross misconduct and no pay him a penny more.
He can sue if he wants, keep his name in the paper, he can find some random club to play for, become a plumber, whatever, again that's his choice.
I wouldn't even want a fee for him, clean break, no fecking around.
I have no sympathy.
His career, his choices. If he decided to go into a nasty foul on someone and fubar'd his ACL, I'd have no sympathy. If he set off fireworks in his bathroom and ended up burning his eye out, I'd have no sympathy.
You don't make silly mistakes and have your voice recorded saying what he said, no matter the circumstances.
I, personally, would sack him for gross misconduct and no pay him a penny more.
He can sue if he wants, keep his name in the paper, he can find some random club to play for, become a plumber, whatever, again that's his choice.
I wouldn't even want a fee for him, clean break, no fecking around.
That would be disasterclass stuff from the club, but it all sounds like fantasy thankfully and I can't see any of that happening.
That would be a very decent stance to take given the circumstances. Of course, the priority is the individual and his family, but it would reflect well on the c.un.
Yet, he clearly didn’t rape anyone.
And you’ve been told that the audio is seconds of a 5 minute plus recording, that quite obviously shows him to not be what you’re accusing him of, otherwise it would be unshakable evidence, yet you’re refusing to acknowledge that.
It’s ironic that you condemn this person, yet proudly announce that you ‘have no sympathy’.
Perhaps looking inward might be of more value than pointing the finger at others.
The next few days will be very interesting. I'm starting to entertain a very very remote possibility being the final outcome but it's little more than a feeling just now than anything of substance, so I'll keep it to myself to avoid looking like a tit.
The next 5 or so days will be telling. Who gets linked, whether or not today's articles are the start of a PR push for Greenwood and ultimately, whether he will leave or not this window.
The next 5 or so days will be telling. Who gets linked, whether or not today's articles are the start of a PR push for Greenwood and ultimately, whether he will leave or not this window.
Greenwood announces a press conference, pulls off his mask and it’s…
AVRAM GLAZER!!?
“That’s right! I’ll do whatever it takes to run the name of Man Utd through the mud! Mwuhahahaaa”
The problem is, because some nutters tried to push the idea it was deep faked, any suggestion that what people saw or heard might not be as it appeared is easily shut down. They simply won't accept anything else.
Somehow the ridiculous idea it was deep faked is the same as pointing out that the audio and video were snippets of a longer recording. One we are not privy to and never will be.
That’s my entire point though, nothing in Ladyman’s article points to anything other than regular teenage behaviour for many many normal teenagers.
He put his hood up in a mood.
He took the piss out of teammates.
He didn’t take lockdown seriously.
Which of those is a “clear red flag” that people “let slide” due to his talent
Should a parent or someone from United stop players bantering each other, should a chaperone have followed him around and pulled back down his hood every time he was in a grump? Should the Prime Minister and his cabinet have taught him how to act properly during lockdown?
Those things mentioned by Ladyman could be said about hundreds of thousands of regular UK teenagers. I’m surprised anyone found it enlightening to read MG, before all the this, acted like an immature teenager at times.
Last edited:
He wasn't originally charged of rape, he was originally charged of attempted rape.
Ergo, if the audio goes on to show him actually rape his partner (for example), then the club can say the evidence didn't show that he committed the original charge, because the original charge was superseded by a different charge, "actual rape", as opposed to "attempted rape".
Every single word in a PR statement is there for a reason, so you don't add in the word "original" unless you are distancing those charges from the subsequent ones.
As for me personally, I haven't accused Greenwood of anything, I just said it "sounded like".
"Sounded like" puts me over 51% sure in the balance of probabilities, which means in a civil court, as opposed to a criminal court, I would find him guilty.
I am not 95% sure, so beyond reasonable doubt, I would not be able to find him guilty in a criminal court. However, I'm not in any court, so all I have are opinions, I can't "find" anyone of anything.
But my desire to support him or have sympathy for him, being an emotional response, is decided on the balance of probabilities, across many factors, factors which are emphasised by my own experiences.
As a rape survivor myself, the idea of supporting or celebrating somebody whom I believe, on the balance of probabilities, has committed rape, makes me feel ill.
I don't listen to Michael Jackson, R Kelly or Chris Brown, I won't look at the art of lots of artists, watch the films of many actors, I'll never watch Giggs' FA Cup goal in the semifinals against Arsenal ever again.
I don't see the irony of me having no sympathy for Greenwood, I think it's a totally understandable position to have, on the balance of probabilities.
I have also written a lot of, and deciphered a lot of, carefully worded company statements, so my experience also make me look at these carefully worded statements and look for what words have been added in and what words have been omitted.
On top of that, I am also extremely aware of the concept of "unconscious bias", so I do tend to look inward, and I do appreciate the insight and understanding that gives me. I hope that process helps me adjust my beliefs to the most logical level.
I bolded those two phrases in your quote because they are, what they call in DBT, "black and white positions in a greyscale world". Nothing in this situation is obvious or clear, so maybe not use those words.
It's not the behaviour itself, but the lack of understanding what he did was wrong and not really showing any sort of remorse. The England duty issue, for instance.That’s my entire point though, nothing in Ladyman’s article points to anything other than regular teenage behaviour for many many normal teenagers.
He put his hood up in a mood.
He took the piss out of teammates.
He didn’t take lockdown seriously.
Which of those is a “clear red flag” that people “let slide” due to his talent
Should a parent or someone from United stop players bantering each other, should a chaperone have followed him around and pulled back down his hood every time he was in a grump? Should the Prime Minister and his cabinet have taught him how to act properly during lockdown?
Those things mentioned by Ladyman could be said about hundreds of thousands of regular UK teenagers. I’m surprised anyone found it enlightening to read MG, before all the this, acted like an immature teenager at times.
Of course you can say this about hundreds of thousands of regular teenagers, but you don't go and give them multi-million pound contracts for one of the biggest organisations in the world. It's all an accumulation of poor behaviour being rewarded with more and more responsibility/opportunity. No wonder he thought he could do what he liked.
Albania is the only offer on the table at the moment apparently
It was insightful in my opinion. It's clear he's massively immature for his age, especially when you compare him to Bellingham who is incredibly mature for his age. Unless he has some kind of learning difficulty, his lack of maturity stems from his upbringing, which means he was never given the tools to succeed anyway. No matter what he found himself doing for a living he'd probably have found himself in trouble with the law at some point because he doesn't seem to see what the big deal is with anything.That’s my entire point though, nothing in Ladyman’s article points to anything other than regular teenage behaviour for many many normal teenagers.
He put his hood up in a mood.
He took the piss out of teammates.
He didn’t take lockdown seriously.
Which of those is a “clear red flag” that people “let slide” due to his talent
Should a parent or someone from United stop players bantering each other, should a chaperone have followed him around and pulled back down his hood every time he was in a grump? Should the Prime Minister and his cabinet have taught him how to act properly during lockdown?
Those things mentioned by Ladyman could be said about hundreds of thousands of regular UK teenagers. I’m surprised anyone found it enlightening to read MG, before all the this, acted like an immature teenager at times.
- Status