Greatest mens tennis player of all time

Massive tick in the Djokovic box last few days. Taking out Nadal and coming from two sets down twice isn't easy at all on his "weaker" surface.

I thought he massively messed up end of last year with US Open default and then losing in straights to Nadal in French Open but he's bounced back incredibly well as usual.

Probably his best chance of winning all 4 slams in one year as he'll be huge favourite at Wimbledon although Olympics may complicate things for Us Open as even he dosen't have limitless energy even if it feels like it most of the time.
 
Sandyman said:
Surely worth a bump?

Incredible stuff from the anti-vaxxer
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Inevitable it will be Novak. Although it may be worth waiting til the end of this year for something more conclusive. If he's tied or has 21 slams then there will be little to debate.
 
Wouldn't be surprised if Djokovic ended up top at every single metric.

Grand Slams:
Federer: 20
Nadal: 20
Djokovic: 19 (having won all of them twice)

Head to head:
Federer vs Nadal: 16-24
Nadal vs Djokovic: 28-30
Djokovic vs Federer: 27-23

Masters 1000:
Federer: 28
Nadal: 36
Djokovic: 36 (having won all of them twice)

Weeks at number 1:
Federer: 310
Nadal: 209
Djokovic: 324

Year-end number 1:
Federer: 5
Nadal: 5
Djokovic: 6

ATP Finals
Federer: 6
Nadal: 0
Djokovic: 5

Olympic Gold:
Federer: 0
Nadal: 1
Djokovic: 0
 
Don't care how many slams Djokovic/Nadal win. Federer is still the Goat.
 
Peyroteo said:
Wouldn't be surprised if Djokovic ended up top at every single metric.

Grand Slams:
Federer: 20
Nadal: 20
Djokovic: 19 (having won all of them twice)

Head to head:
Federer vs Nadal: 16-24
Nadal vs Djokovic: 28-30
Djokovic vs Federer: 27-23

Masters 1000:
Federer: 28
Nadal: 36
Djokovic: 36 (having won all of them twice)

Weeks at number 1:
Federer: 310
Nadal: 209
Djokovic: 324

Year-end number 1:
Federer: 5
Nadal: 5
Djokovic: 6

ATP Finals
Federer: 6
Nadal: 0
Djokovic: 5

Olympic Gold:
Federer: 0
Nadal: 1
Djokovic: 0
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Nice summary. I conclude from that the GOAT is...

Drumroll please...

Tim Henman
 
Peyroteo said:
Wouldn't be surprised if Djokovic ended up top at every single metric.

Grand Slams:
Federer: 20
Nadal: 20
Djokovic: 19 (having won all of them twice)

Head to head:
Federer vs Nadal: 16-24
Nadal vs Djokovic: 28-30
Djokovic vs Federer: 27-23

Masters 1000:
Federer: 28
Nadal: 36
Djokovic: 36 (having won all of them twice)

Weeks at number 1:
Federer: 310
Nadal: 209
Djokovic: 324

Year-end number 1:
Federer: 5
Nadal: 5
Djokovic: 6

ATP Finals
Federer: 6
Nadal: 0
Djokovic: 5

Olympic Gold:
Federer: 0
Nadal: 1
Djokovic: 0
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Professional singles tournaments won, number of consecutive weeks at #1 (an indicator of consistent dominance) are two he can't finish at the top since he won't be catching Federer on either. Slams however, he could very well finish with 25 by the time he's done, which would be more than enough to end all debates.
 
ThatsGreat said:
Don't care how many slams Djokovic/Nadal win. Federer is still the Goat.
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He will always be the best to me because his game was so astonishing to watch when he was at his best. I respect the other two of course, but they are grinders.
 
Holy shit the amount of bs towards Nadal/Djokovic, its like Federer is some kind of ballet dancer and other two are unloading trucks in Transylvania.
 
R'hllor said:
Holy shit the amount of bs towards Nadal/Djokovic, its like Federer is some kind of ballet dancer and other two are unloading trucks in Transylvania.
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There is a clear difference though
 
R'hllor said:
Holy shit the amount of bs towards Nadal/Djokovic, its like Federer is some kind of ballet dancer and other two are unloading trucks in Transylvania.
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Yup - they are better (as much as I hate to admit it) but Federer is simply much better on the eye. It's the same Ronaldo / Messi eye test.. He defined the sport in a way they haven't even though they have won more.. That's why he hangs around in the conversation.
 
Objectively and stats based, it's going to be Djokovic, but my heat still says Fed and I'll never be persuaded otherwise. His tennis was a thing of artistic beauty, for me that matters. Same criteria says Steffi > Serena regardless.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Nice summary. I conclude from that the GOAT is...

Drumroll please...

Tim Henman
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_39235356_henmanpa300300.jpg
 
foolsgold said:
Objectively and stats based, it's going to be Djokovic, but my heat still says Fed and I'll never be persuaded otherwise. His tennis was a thing of artistic beauty, for me that matters. Same criteria says Steffi > Serena regardless.
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Well thats the difference between Great and the Best for me. Federer is the greatest, Novak is the best.
 
NasirTimothy said:
He will always be the best to me because his game was so astonishing to watch when he was at his best. I respect the other two of course, but they are grinders.
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This is a pretty good way of looking at it. Fed has a certain elegance and artistry to his game. His ground strokes are significantly more aesthetically pleasing to watch. A bit like Lendl on this regard. Nadal’s game involves a lot of grinding and Djokovic is the most complete of the three.
 
Has to be Djokovic - to win the titles he has in the toughest era of tennis is exemplary.

Federer fans keep shifting the goalposts but he will be soon be known as the most stylish player to have played the game but not the outright greatest.

For me the best player is the most effective and against the best competition and Djokovic comes up trumps in this regard. Mentality monster does not do this guy justice.
 
It's an interesting debate for a semi-outsider like me. I had a period around 2008-2011 where I watched a decent amount of tennis(and also played a little). Even as a tennis amateur in every sense of the word I could tell that something was special about Federer's tennis. Around the time I stopped watching tennis, I believe the consensus was that Federer was going to remain the GOAT for a long time, even if Nadal somehow could catch up to his number of slams(which he ended up doing). I'm not sure if the analogy works, but the Federer vs Nadal debate was kind of like the Messi vs Ronaldo debate. The former is magic, the latter is physically more impressive. Even if their stats are comparable, one will always slightly edge it because of the sheer artistry.

But then Djokovic started winning like crazy. From the outside, it seems to me that the world of tennis wasn't ready have a third player thrown into the mix like that. On top of this, he's(in my impression) not nearly as likeable as the other two. Because of this, people seem to not want him to be considered the best.

Am I onto something or are my observations completely off?
 
OleBoiii said:
It's an interesting debate for a semi-outsider like me. I had a period around 2008-2011 where I watched a decent amount of tennis(and also played a little). Even as a tennis amateur in every sense of the word I could tell that something was special about Federer's tennis. Around the time I stopped watching tennis, I believe the consensus was that Federer was going to remain the GOAT for a long time, even if Nadal somehow could catch up to his number of slams(which he ended up doing). I'm not sure if the analogy works, but the Federer vs Nadal debate was kind of like the Messi vs Ronaldo debate. The former is magic, the latter is physically more impressive. Even if their stats are comparable, one will always slightly edge it because of the sheer artistry.

But then Djokovic started winning like crazy. From the outside, it seems to me that the world of tennis wasn't ready have a third player thrown into the mix like that. On top of this, he's(in my impression) not nearly as likeable as the other two. Because of this, people seem to not want him to be considered the best.

Am I onto something or are my observations completely off?
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I’m only a casual viewer like yourself but that’s how I perceived it too. Although, and I’m probably wrong, it never felt like a 3 way rivalry where they were all on form at the same time. It always felt like there were periods where one player was injured for a long stretch and the other two players were both on form and banging heads.
 
Pexbo said:
I’m only a casual viewer like yourself but that’s how I perceived it too. Although, and I’m probably wrong, it never felt like a 3 way rivalry where they were all on form at the same time. It always felt like there were periods where one player was injured for a long stretch and the other two players were both on form and banging heads.
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This isn't far off the truth.

2005 - 09 was the era of Nadal Vs Federer (culminating at the AO 2009)
2010 - 2013 was the era of Nadal Vs Djokovic
2014 - 15 was Federer Vs Djokovic

Since then Murray had his amazing run in 2016, Nadal and Federers resurgence in 2017 and since then it's been Nadal Vs Djokovic V2 but mostly them fending off next gen.
 
An argument can be made for all of them I suppose but I think there is no doubt that Federer is the most liked and Djokovic the least.
I personally loved watching Becker back in the day and what he did at Wimbledon as a teenager was just brilliant to behold.
 
Soon there will be no debate in terms of achievements (Djoko will top it) and thus it will come down to personal preferences I guess. Frankly I find Fed the least likeable to due his arrogant nature.
 
There's a certain artistry to Nadal's physical game as well. Some of the forehand shots he took at this French Open had my jaws on the floor.
Novak is the Goat though. No more doubts about it.
 
Raees said:
Has to be Djokovic - to win the titles he has in the toughest era of tennis is exemplary.

Federer fans keep shifting the goalposts but he will be soon be known as the most stylish player to have played the game but not the outright greatest.

For me the best player is the most effective and against the best competition and Djokovic comes up trumps in this regard. Mentality monster does not do this guy justice.
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Its not just about ‘style’ or grace’, he makes shots that I’ve never seen any other player make. It’s about skill.
 
Fed is by far the most enjoyable one to watch, but it is becoming very hard to argue against Djokovic as the GOAT. By the end of their career, he is gonna lead in every single metric.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Its not just about ‘style’ or grace’, he makes shots that I’ve never seen any other player make. It’s about skill.
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I’ve seen plenty of defensive shots made by Nadal/Rada that Fed could never make it, so indeed the skill matters.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Its not just about ‘style’ or grace’, he makes shots that I’ve never seen any other player make. It’s about skill.
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Then Ronaldinho is the greatest footballer of all time. It forms a small part of the argument and is the weakest factor.
 
Raees said:
Then Ronaldinho is the greatest footballer of all time. It forms a small part of the argument and is the weakest factor.
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It's hardly the same thing. It's more like Messi vs Maradona vs Pele with one being comfortably the easiest on the eye. Whether it adds to greatness is up for debate, but then this whole race/comparison is extremely so. I think it plays a part in one's greatness for sure. Barcelona under Pep captured people's imagination the way Real Madrid under Zidane couldn't. I'm obviously a huge Federer fan, but one of the reasons is because he is truly a joy to watch. No other sportsman I'd rather watch in full flight, with Messi being second, probably. Grace, aggressive front-foot tennis, big serve, one-handed backhand, brilliant forehand, love it. I'd love to have to have seen Federer on faster courts where he would be able to dominate more from the net rather than always live in fear of being passed with the time and space you now have at the baseline.
 
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NasirTimothy said:
He will always be the best to me because his game was so astonishing to watch when he was at his best.
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foolsgold said:
Objectively and stats based, it's going to be Djokovic, but my heat still says Fed and I'll never be persuaded otherwise.
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This is what it comes down to for me. It's impossible to argue against the stats @Peyroteo posted but for me Federer has (or had) something magical that the other two lacked, even though they are obviously phenomenal players in their own rights. Maybe it's just nostalgia.
 
Raees said:
Then Ronaldinho is the greatest footballer of all time. It forms a small part of the argument and is the weakest factor.
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Except Ronaldinho is not the most skilful player of all time. That would be Maradona, or Pele (or Messi). There is a difference between tricks and skill. We’re not talking about between the legs circus shots here (in tennis).
 
honestly, I thought Novak missed his chance after his struggles in 2016-2018 period. he recovered, but then he retired in US Open 4th round again, next year he got disqualified there and then Wimbledon was canceled. he's 34 now but even with all the those missed chances it looks like he will easily beat both Fed and Nadal in this race. the craziest thing? when he beat Fed in AO 2011, he had 1 GS and Federer had 16 of them. just read that again. unbelieavable.
 
Djokovic is a machine, and insanely impressive.

But watching him... it's just not the same as Federer or Nadal. He just isn't particularly likeable (on court, by no means off it).

Djokovic is barely human when he's at his best. Fed and Nadal are poetry in motion, albeit in drastically different styles.

Federer on form is arguably the most satisfying thing to watch in any sport, ever.

I think by the time they've all hung up their racquets it will look like:

Most Successful Ever - Djok

Most Dominant - Nadal

The Greatest - Fed

Amazing we got all 3 at the same time. Miles ahead of anyone else to have played the game. The fact that there's no-one challenging them at this stage in their careers is testament to this.
 
groovyalbert said:
Djokovic is a machine, and insanely impressive.

But watching him... it's just not the same as Federer or Nadal. He just isn't particularly likeable (on court, by no means off it).

Djokovic is barely human when he's at his best. Fed and Nadal are poetry in motion, albeit in drastically different styles.

Federer on form is arguably the most satisfying thing to watch in any sport, ever.

I think by the time they've all hung up their racquets it will look like:

Most Successful Ever - Djok

Most Dominant - Nadal

The Greatest - Fed

Amazing we got all 3 at the same time. Miles ahead of anyone else to have played the game. The fact that there's no-one challenging them at this stage in their careers is testament to this.
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It's also testament to the lack of quality, sadly. The new generation lacks both in talent and especially in mentality. Even an inform Wawkrinka would have closed out the match yesterday with a 2-0 lead let alone genuine top class players from back in the day, but with this new lot you just know they can't see it through the rare occasions they get ahead. That Federer won 3 slams at 35, and now Djokovic and Nadal are racking them up says a lot about the greats but also plenty about the field.
 
groovyalbert said:
Amazing we got all 3 at the same time. Miles ahead of anyone else to have played the game. The fact that there's no-one challenging them at this stage in their careers is testament to this.
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This is the part that I find amazing. Imagine how many slams any one of them would have if the other two hadn't been around.
 
Imagine the numbers one of those 3 guys could have racked up if the other 2 didn't exist and if he managed to keep up the form and motivation for so long without their competition.
e: damn, 2 minutes late. :D
 
That last Wimbledon final really hurt Fed's claim, I really don't know how he lost it and probably will be one of his biggest regrets.

It tipped it to Novak's favour for me after that game.
 
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