Something like that Weaste. It would put a lot of gamers to bed and to be honest, i'd be quite happy with a compromise such as that.
I suppose that would be a good solution, yes.
Gaming Gran Turismo 5
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
I suppose that would be a good solution, yes.
I'm going to be pretty gutted if it doesn't at least rival Forza 2 for feel.
What's this about only 170 cars having fully modeled interiors? I must be slipping because I've not kept track of this over the last couple of years.
Oh and whatever the reason they are spitting out, it's taking a bit long now isn't it. The problem is with such a mammoth development cycle, as new rival games come out, they have to keep adding to it to better those, hence the extreme amount of time taken. I'd say it better had been worth it, but I've not been bored waiting for it since I still play Forza 2 regularly.
What's this about only 170 cars having fully modeled interiors? I must be slipping because I've not kept track of this over the last couple of years.
Oh and whatever the reason they are spitting out, it's taking a bit long now isn't it. The problem is with such a mammoth development cycle, as new rival games come out, they have to keep adding to it to better those, hence the extreme amount of time taken. I'd say it better had been worth it, but I've not been bored waiting for it since I still play Forza 2 regularly.
So, how do the graphics compare to Forza? And Weaste I mean proper in game graphics not the hi def trailers you posted.
What the feck is in post 554 and others Spoony?
And all of the trailers are made using the game engine, just at higher resolutions.
And all of the trailers are made using the game engine, just at higher resolutions.
Yeah, I only saw the pics and HQ trailer. Would be nice if we could compare it with Forza, though. Not that I was particularly impressed with Forza's graphics (and the gameplay for that matter). The GT5 demo wasn't all that graphically and all.
And any news about a new Res Evil game?
And any news about a new Res Evil game?
Well they won't look that good still, that's for sure.
However they'll still look fecking fantastic on the move (Forza isn't so much about the graphics, so has no chance of comparing), and that's the point. GT has always been more show than go, but now after all this time lets hope it has both.
I felt Forza was too arcady. That said car games bore me, the utter tedium is enough to put you off playing games for life. Having said that, I thought GT5(demo) played much better than Forza. But graphically it disappointed, however I'm assured the full game will have better graphics.
Really? What version of Forza and why?
The 3DS has a new one, and Resi 5 is being made move compatible. Anyone who played 4 on the Wii will tell you that should be good (although the game isn't as interesting as 4 in my opinion).
There's your problem, you probably played Forza in arcade mode. You need to turn off all the driver aides and set your car up properly to start really getting what the game is about.
However if car games bore you, then Forza definitely isn't for you
There's your problem, you probably played Forza in arcade mode. You need to turn off all the driver aides and set your car up properly to start really getting what the game is about.
However if car games bore you, then Forza definitely isn't for you
Well, I've played it without assists, Lambs. I dunno but the physics just didn't feel right. I also didn't like the way you could bounce off barriers and what not. Having said that I loved Ridge Racer. Arcady? yes! but bags of fun. Oh and I've also bought GTA Lost and Damned/Ballad of Gay Tony. . .after an hour of play, I've not got back to it. Same old, same old.
And Alan Hansen's just said 'Apartheid was fundamentally flawed'
Really??????????????!!!
Are you sure you played the same game? One of the best things about it is you can't just bounce of barriers like the Project Gotham and Gran Tourismo series! (Well you can, but you feck your handling)
I'm still not sure what it is exactly about the physics that people think are flawed either. They are by no means perfect, but they certainly aren't a million miles away.
I heard that too, fecking numptey!Don't get me started on GTA.
What do you reckon to this? Honest answer, and no, I don't know what the hell is going on with a shadow seemingly appearing out of nowhere.
I think that the cars behave "properly" now. Mechanical damage on all cars was confirmed a while back.
What do you reckon to this? Honest answer, and no, I don't know what the hell is going on with a shadow seemingly appearing out of nowhere.
I think that the cars behave "properly" now. Mechanical damage on all cars was confirmed a while back.
Well, that depends on the use of properly. The cars in Forza 3 technically handle much more properly than in two, which (funnily enough) is why a lot of people (myself included) like it less.
What amuses me though, is I don't think most people actually have a grasp on how cars like these should really handle, and as such I'm still interested to hear from people on here what exactly it is in the physics of Forza 2 and 3 that can and should be bettered in later driving games? There are obviously a number of things, but I'm looking for opinions.
Oh, and I doubt GT5 will be doing much differently to the physics model of FM3, but hopefully there are a number of tweaks, one of which being the distribution of car weight through the suspension. FM2 and 3 did different degrees of this (there was a specific reason for the difference between them which I'll go into later, this also ties in with what I think many people think is wrong with RWD cars in FM2), but neither really nailed it.
Of course you've also go the fact that 'true' realistic car physics and feedback won't work in a game properly unless the player has wheel, feedback pedals and a feedback driving seat, but even then you don't get the G-Force, so as you know Weaste, there'll always be some compromise in the realism.
Are there upgrades in GT5 btw? Can you tune and tweak the cars at all?
As far as I understand it, yes, extensively in GT mode.
It's a game also yes, so where should the mechanical penalty lie in say multiplayer when some knobchop slams into you and seemingly takes you out of the race after 49 laps? Should you get the damage as well as him, and how does the game decide fault?
So what did you think was wrong with Forza 2 and 3 that needs improving for GT5 Weaste?
Well i'm not speaking for weaste, but the whole concept of lift off oversteer on those games is almost not existent. The cars handle like they're on rails, and the there really is very little road feel. I've got friends that play with the Fanatec porsche wheels, and cars just float around. In games like Live For Speed and I-Racing, the immersion of the game allows you to feel those bumps, cars getting light over crests and the level of adhesion between the tyre and the road.
Prologue suffered from similar issues in terms of road holding etc, but the demo at christmas time recreated that feel that i've only experienced in the top level sims on PC.
Forza is, and always will be an arcade racer with sim characteristics. Its the market that they're aiming at.
I also feel the fact that two of their games have only just outsold Prologue is laughable although that really doesn't have much to do with physics.
Or does it,
Prologue suffered from similar issues in terms of road holding etc, but the demo at christmas time recreated that feel that i've only experienced in the top level sims on PC.
Forza is, and always will be an arcade racer with sim characteristics. Its the market that they're aiming at.
I also feel the fact that two of their games have only just outsold Prologue is laughable although that really doesn't have much to do with physics.
Or does it,
What he just said, only ever played 3 a few times, never played the two previous Forzas.
The lighting in this game though is top quality, at the end of this clip with the dark and the dust, you can't see shit.
People will probably complain why little fences act like concrete barriers though, but I suppose that they don't want you driving off through a field.
The lighting in this game though is top quality, at the end of this clip with the dark and the dust, you can't see shit.
People will probably complain why little fences act like concrete barriers though, but I suppose that they don't want you driving off through a field.
Are you sure you played the same game? One of the best things about it is you can't just bounce of barriers like the Project Gotham and Gran Tourismo series! (Well you can, but you feck your handling)
I'm still not sure what it is exactly about the physics that people think are flawed either. They are by no means perfect, but they certainly aren't a million miles away.
Nah, you always bounce off the barriers, it may not be as prominent as PGR but it's still unrealistic. In fact my times were better when I was hitting them in stead of slowing down turning without making an impact. As for GT5 the cars feel more real. I say this because I've got 250bhp car and can make a decentish comparison. The one's in Forza felt too light. It;s hard to explain, but I will try to when I get back from work. . .
The cars do feel light in Forza 2 and lift off oversteer is wrong. I believe the problem is the centre of gravity was lowered because for one reason or another they didn't want cars rolling.
I'm talking here about using the feedback wheel BTW, because a controller is always going to make car games not feel right:
Now it's a bit simplistic to say the cars are 'floaty'. It depends on how you set them up. For example to stop the rather ice-like RWD cars breaking grip well before they should, most people were adding 2-way diffs and trying to control them that way which only makes the problem even worse, or adds to the 'on rails' like effect. The correct way (and old school engineers/mechanics would agree) to manage it is via the anti-roll bars. If you adjust the front ones to allow more front end slip, it counters the oversteer (both on and off) and allows you to feel more of the weight balance in the car (and in effect the differences between the cars and their set-ups).
Forza 3 fixed the weight issues to some degree, but to me a properly set up car is 2 feels better than the cars in 3. Oh and with all drving aides off (who was it who said you can't turn them off in 3?) and the damage and tire wear set to full, the game is much closer to sim than arcade (though nowhere near the PC equivalents still).
I'm still not sure where the 'bouncing off barricades' part comes in, since even the slightest clip on a wheel can throw your balancing off and feck your lap times. I suspect people are talking about the exploits gamers have found online, but GT5 will have just as many of these!
Now people have to be aware that game physics (even more so on a console), even in a sim like this, have to be exaggerated or changed at some point. As I've said before it's because being too realistic would be no fun since you can't drive like in real life, because you can only feel through the wheel. The biggest thing I want GT5 to improve on over Forza is throttle control, which in turn means the breaking of mechanical grip. In Forza with a fully set up car, you can find a sweet spot on the accelerator and hold it round corners with little to no need of adjustment. In real life, when I want to take mine round, you better believe I'll be feathering that throttle otherwise I'll be in trouble.
I'm talking here about using the feedback wheel BTW, because a controller is always going to make car games not feel right:
Now it's a bit simplistic to say the cars are 'floaty'. It depends on how you set them up. For example to stop the rather ice-like RWD cars breaking grip well before they should, most people were adding 2-way diffs and trying to control them that way which only makes the problem even worse, or adds to the 'on rails' like effect. The correct way (and old school engineers/mechanics would agree) to manage it is via the anti-roll bars. If you adjust the front ones to allow more front end slip, it counters the oversteer (both on and off) and allows you to feel more of the weight balance in the car (and in effect the differences between the cars and their set-ups).
Forza 3 fixed the weight issues to some degree, but to me a properly set up car is 2 feels better than the cars in 3. Oh and with all drving aides off (who was it who said you can't turn them off in 3?) and the damage and tire wear set to full, the game is much closer to sim than arcade (though nowhere near the PC equivalents still).
I'm still not sure where the 'bouncing off barricades' part comes in, since even the slightest clip on a wheel can throw your balancing off and feck your lap times. I suspect people are talking about the exploits gamers have found online, but GT5 will have just as many of these!
Now people have to be aware that game physics (even more so on a console), even in a sim like this, have to be exaggerated or changed at some point. As I've said before it's because being too realistic would be no fun since you can't drive like in real life, because you can only feel through the wheel. The biggest thing I want GT5 to improve on over Forza is throttle control, which in turn means the breaking of mechanical grip. In Forza with a fully set up car, you can find a sweet spot on the accelerator and hold it round corners with little to no need of adjustment. In real life, when I want to take mine round, you better believe I'll be feathering that throttle otherwise I'll be in trouble.
What have you got Spoony? My weapon of choice is an E36 M3 (the good 3.0, single vanos one). I've had it round one or two corners in my time, hence why I glad the car is on FM2/3 and GT5 so I can use it to properly compare.
Though obviously no game comes close to feeling the arse go out on you in real life
Isn't that the whole idea of pro/standard physics and also having an arcade mode?
Though obviously no game comes close to feeling the arse go out on you in real life
Well, there's no real consequence in a game when things go wrong, so you'd push it to the limit far more. Also, even with a force-feedback wheel, there are still things that you'll never be able to feel as you do in a real car, g-force loading and roll being examples. I suppose that the professional F1 simulators for example at least have hydraulic cockpits.
I found a picture of one.
120,000 nicker.
Has anyone come across some detail report regarding the resolution and framerate of the 3D option? If it is 720p @ 60fps, it should mean that 2D could now operate in 1920x1080 instead of the 1280x1080 of Prologue.
Of course, but my point is that even in full sim mode allowances have to be made and as such there'll always be people saying some aspect or another isn't 'real' enough.
I mean Forza's physics apparently runs at 360fps (as much as I loathe using figures like this) and can accurately model a single stone affecting a tyre that you may run over. However, to the average gamer it's the 'feel' that needs to be right, a feel that won't be truely realistic.
In a simplistic way, here's a view of my hopes: (In order of least to most realistic)
Ridge Racer - Gran turismo/Project Gotham - Forza - Any number of PC racers.
Now realisitcally I think GT5 fits in alongside Forza, hopefully it'll be between Forza and the PC racers. It should do bearing in mind the ridiculous development time it's taken
Of course, but my point is that even in full sim mode allowances have to be made and as such there'll always be people saying some aspect or another isn't 'real' enough.
I mean Forza's physics apparently runs at 360fps (as much as I loathe using figures like this) and can accurately model a single stone affecting a tyre that you may run over. However, to the average gamer it's the 'feel' that needs to be right, a feel that won't be truely realistic.
In a simplistic way, here's a view of my hopes: (In order of least to most realistic)
Ridge Racer - Gran turismo/Project Gotham - Forza - Any number of PC racers.
Now realisitcally I think GT5 fits in alongside Forza, hopefully it'll be between Forza and the PC racers. It should do bearing in mind the ridiculous development time it's taken
The demo at Christmas actually fixed alot of the issues you raised. For example, you couldn't just throw the car into a corner or power out without serious consequences that absolutely destroyed your lap time. like in real life, you had to be so precise in the way that you directed the car and modulated the throttle percentage during turn and mid corner for a smooth exit.
If so, and you can tune the car (roll bars, tyre pressures, brake balance and 2-way diff settings specifically), I'll definitely be interested.
I like the eye camera thing too, although is that for all cars or just the 170 with modelled interiors? I mean I couldn't car less about looking all round, but to beable to check mirrors/side windows would be nice (Forza 3's interiors looked good, but were claustrophobic and didn't really give you much help).
Are we still going to set up a Caf Tournament/League for this?
I'm actually going to buy a playstation3 just to play this game.
I definitely can't play a racing game with cockpit view. The visibility is ridiculously low, 20% of the screen to see the track?
First person view is the only way I can play Gran Turismo decently. I only expect to use cockpit view in replays.
Roll bars and tyre pressures I don't think so (you can chose from a shitload of tires with different properties, but not change the pressures), but brake balance and 2-way diff are customizable since Gran Turismo one.
Weaste/Redlambs, do you think the European release date for this will be far behind the NA one?
Most games have been released in a Tuesday in North America and the following Friday in Europe. Considering 2nd November is a Tuesday, I'd bet on the 5th for European release.
anti roll bars are what he's talking about and yes you have been able too also since gt1
Super GT? I really hope they got the new Honda HSV-010 in there.
There's still loads of confusion about this game, we'll have to wait for information from GamesCom towards the end of August to get full details.