And was nonetheless a better midfielder than Pogba. Only Vieira and Keane compare to him in that role from the PL era.
Graeme Sourness | Retires from “punditry”
- Thread starter Bubz27
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Yes, the role of the midfield hatchet man is his.
I think there's an issue of players from decades ago still being used as mainstream pundits and applying outdated views on the modern game. There is a reason Neville and Carragher are heralded so much, they only retired in the last decade which means they are better equipped to give insight on the modern game.
You’re right in one sense. Your man Gerrard is a no-mark in such company.
The thing that always confuses me with Gerrard is when people try and compare him as a centre mid to Keane etc.
He was much more an attacking mid. There was a reason Benitez for one didn't trust him deeper.
He was a dirty hatchet man and some of his tackles were beyond disgusting. He'd be found out in the modern game where he wouldn't get away with that.
KDB plays Gerrards role and he is x2 the player Steven was
He was an absolute liability deeper. It’s an insult to actual quality midfield players for Gerrard to be included in such a debate.
But he always gets into these neutral premier league x1s as a centre .
We all know it's because they need a Liverpool player in there.
You must not be watching his social media enough.
1. If it’s particularly scathing and not regular critique, how is it fair ?
2. That’s just a lie, might do some research if you want to write a post saying he hasn’t been seen at a single game since his injuries. City game is just one example.
3. How is Pogba saying “ Ididn’t know who he was, but heard he was a great player” a low for him?
And some of Keane, Vieira and Davids' tackles were beyond disgusting as well, all of whom had fairly patchy disciplinary records. Still the best central midfielders of their generation though.
There is no denying that Pogba has divided the CAF to the extent that some supporters (like myself) agree with Graeme f... Souness. The modern game argument works when we talk tactics or player fitness. It's much more evolved than in the 80s. I don't care from what decade you are heart and commitment are always desiarble and Pogba has been lacking both.
There isnt a Pogba vs Souness thing going on, despite how some frame it. Sky defo want to play it up given theres nothing else going on.
Pogba probably doesnt even hear any of the stuff that Souness says, especially after / before games.
Although active on Social media, Pogba doesnt seem the type who will scroll through finding clips related to him. instead he will just post what hes doing, and show that hes having fun, promoting whats needed or challenging friends (eg Zlatan).
Souness heard Pogbas responses but Pogba had to be told about Souness comments and pretty much downplayed it and moved on.
And yeah great post @Rozay
Pogba probably doesnt even hear any of the stuff that Souness says, especially after / before games.
Although active on Social media, Pogba doesnt seem the type who will scroll through finding clips related to him. instead he will just post what hes doing, and show that hes having fun, promoting whats needed or challenging friends (eg Zlatan).
Souness heard Pogbas responses but Pogba had to be told about Souness comments and pretty much downplayed it and moved on.
And yeah great post @Rozay
This is an exaggeration. He started his career defensive midfield, played well and got into the England set up. He was more than good as a CM. Did he not play CM before Benitez and was instrumental to their treble?
Of course it’s an exaggeration but Gerrard belongs nowhere the likes of Keane or Vieira, both of whom were force of nature captains in multiple title winning sides.
I can’t remember where Gerrard was played when Liverpool won their plastic treble, or who was playing alongside him. Irrespective, it was a trio of secondary trophies.
It was quite instructive that Benitez played him as a number 10 or even off the right because he didn’t get the discipline afforded by Alonso and Mascherano.
Since when, before Pogba’s injury, has that ever been held as some sort of requirement for injured players? When was the last time, if ever, a conversation was started because an injured player was not in the stadium?
How many games have you seen Rashford at since January? How many Eric Bailly before that? How many Harry Kane? It’s a non-story, just an ever-shifting goalpost regarding Pogba.
Him posting himself shooting hoops or at his brother’s wedding can only possibly be a problem or even a story if he were not supposed to be there. In and of themselves, the act of shooting a basketball or attending a wedding are obviously not ‘bad’ things. In this context, they can only possibly be made ‘bad’ if the player was not permitted to do it at the time. There hasn’t been even the slightest suggestion that this is the case. If he was permitted to do it, then he’s obviously permitted to post it, as he can post what he wants on his page about his life.
As I said in my longer rant, would there have been a problem if he posted himself playing with his cute dogs? Alexis’ constant posting of his dogs on his Instagram (despite committing the crime of not playing well) has never led to a question of his focus, not once. In fact, it’s been used to discuss a ‘depth’ or whatever to him as a man if anything.
Why on earth would Fergie have ‘booted Pogba out’ for playing Basketball or dancing at a wedding?!!
Let's be honest about Souness guys. He was very good in the age he played in because of what was allowed.
But not in today's game. What Pogba can do with a ball in terms of passing and skill it's not even a competition.
One is much more interesting to watch. Although that vid of Souness is entertaining but for an entirely different reason.
But not in today's game. What Pogba can do with a ball in terms of passing and skill it's not even a competition.
One is much more interesting to watch. Although that vid of Souness is entertaining but for an entirely different reason.
Come on man. They still had to beat out good sides. 2 of those trophies were won by City last year and were seen as a great achievement. They were the best "cup side" domestically that year.
They beat Roma that season who went on to win Serie A. They beat Barcelona also. Beat Arsenal in the FA Cup final and Leeds early on.
Can't dismiss winning that many trophies in a season.
Liverpool finished 3rd in that season so were a top side with Gerrard in the midfield and he also won PFA Young player of the year, made the EPL Team of the season and won the PFA fans player of the year in midfield
Benitez is his own man and how he decides to set up is his own business but it isn't gospel.
It's more of the same really isn't?
Downplay Souness' weird obsession with Pogba and magnify Pogba's polite response to being asked about it.
Thanks.
And tbh, I agree to an extent, particularly about the most recent comments. That was all Jamie Carragher looking for a reaction from Souness, and stirring it further by calling it ‘below the belt’. Souness wasn’t pressing the issue, and yesterday, didn’t even look like he particularly wanted to get into it.
Often, his co-commentators are soliciting an anti-Pogba rant from him, and he seems to lack the sense or will to avoid it. If anything, I think Gary Neville is often more harmful in this area, partly because of his standing as a former United player too, so reds pay more attention to what he says. His attack on Pogba after the Wolves game was unacceptable for me, and as bad as I have seen from any pundit on this particular matter.
Let's be honest about Souness, he was a leg-breaker who was lucky to be part of a good team at the time.
I'm sure he's so jealous of Pogba winning the World Cup!
Aye, it's a lazy comparison. You often see it when pundits are compiling their best Premiership XIs and putting together them in a 1990s 4-4-2 formation. Keane and Gerrard performed different functions and both did it better than anyone else during the post-92 era. Keane dominated the league in the era of 4-4-2 while Gerrard dominated when 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 came to the fore. It would be a waste of Gerrard's attacking abilities to have him as the deepest midfielder, even though he did well enough there for England in the first half of the 2000s.
No idea why you're bringing Gerrard to the discussion about Souness and Pogba, but your post is silly. "Gerrard belongs nowhere the likes of Keane and Vieira". That's just hyperbole. Of course they won more than him due to playing in better teams, but Gerrard was clearly on their level, just a very different player. Similar energy level and determination, better offensively, less tactical discipline. He's very underrated on this forum (unsurprisingly). There's a reason Mourinho tried to sign him for three clubs, and Ferguson wanted to replace Keane with him. Ferguson said this about him back in 04:
"He has become the most influential player in England, bar none. Not that Vieira lacks anything, but Gerrard does more."
Also, a bit fun to read the thread from here back when he was linked to you guys: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ferguson-says-gerrard-is-better-than-keane-and-vieira.48711/
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And the rest. When he told Pogba to "do one." Then after the Everton game when we lost 4 something, you know a lot was aimed at him. The Pogba penalty-gate where he said he expected Pogba to "snatch" the ball because he is selfish and was raging at him missing but cared littled when Rashford missed the week after and I think he may have even attributed the blame for Rashford miss on the penalty furore (which he created) from the week before. I may be wrong about this as my memory sometimes plays up.
This is true. Gary Neville says too much about too much in general tbh.
I guess we'll never know. You should start a thread on things that would've been different if Wayne Rooney was black.
If my granny had wheels, she'd have been a bike etc
Wasn't he a right back at first?
I don't want to derail the thread but he is troublesome as he is an ex player with a respected opinion. Most people hate Sourness and the whole Pogba v Sourness thing is often seen in jest, or a bit of Banter and Sourness is now a meme.
With Gary, I feel he fuels the anti-Pogba mob more than most
Souness was a highly skilled and accomplished footballer with a brilliant passing range and technique as well as being a fecking maniac. He was, by no stretch of even the most fevered imagination, simply a "leg-breaker who was lucky to be part of a good team".Let's be honest about Souness, he was a leg-breaker who was lucky to be part of a good team at the time.
I'm sure he's so jealous of Pogba winning the World Cup!
Let's not let his bizarre pseudo-feud with Pogba result in revisionist nonsense.
Was in the CL final and was great. think he would of been a beastly RB. Just needs a manager to coach him but has all the attributes of an outstanding attacking FB
Let's be honest about Souness, he was a leg-breaker who was lucky to be part of a good team at the time.
I'm sure he's so jealous of Pogba winning the World Cup!
He was a very good player to be honest.
The Gary Neville one was really weird. He kept putting in a disclaimer ‘if they hadn’t done it last week’.....but they did and since he knew about it, then he was fine with it, then why did he keep making a Massive issue and then adding the disclaimer again ? He then seemed happy to sit back while Pogba suffered racial abuse on the back of it.
Not gonna add much as like you, dont want to derail the thread, but with Neville I find his bias shows through and sometimes goes over board to show hes not biased.
But he clearly tends to support those he either played with or those he coached. He went in hard on DDG but was lighter on J.Hart.
He would go in on Pogba but not Lingard or Rashford.
What a fantastic post! Amazing!
Great post as always
Carragher is a sly pr1ck whose only agenda is the constant promotion of Liverpool FC.
How is scum and the spitting incident is the proof of it. Scouse through and through.
I am not saying what you mentioned in your longer post is incorrect and that Pogba has been scrutinized far more than any other player. And like another poster has mentioned, I'm not downplaying Souness' obsession with Pogba. He has shown as much agenda in his 'punditry' as I've seen from anyone.
But my only point here is (you can disagree if you want to), that if Pogba is 100% committed to the club and his agent spouts nonsense against the same club where he was a world record signing and is made one of the highest paid players in the world, and he doesn't make a statement (social media or otherwise) to showcase him commitment, then he doesn't deserve unconditional backing from our supporters as well.
Yes, Souness is an a**hole and has unfairly and repeatedly targeted Pogba in the past. But as much as I dislike him, his comments on Pogba in this year are irrefutable.