Graeme Sourness | Retires from “punditry”

[noodlehair]

People do realize that Souness isn't a Liverpool fan, right? Yes. He played for Liverpool and wants them to win but he's no more of a Liverpool fan as Roy Keane Is a United fan.

Besides, if you browse on player performance threads in this place you would swear blind that this wasn't a Manchester United forum.

I just had a look at McTominay's thread. If the poor lad browses this place and goes through the aforementioned thread he'll end up with PTSD.

I mean, Roy Keane is obviously a United fan and this comes through very clearly in his punditry. Souness pretty equally with Liverpool.

The half time analysis was embarrassing as well. I watched a good half of football where United actually went for it, couldn't quite keep the intensity up, and got stung couple of times at the end after Liverpool had grown into the game themselves. Listening to Souness at half time you'd think it should have been 5-1 to Liverpool and United had barely strung 2 passes together.

Him and Neville are two of the worst for me. Too biased to do their job impartially and both have this habit of setting their narrative before the game and then sticking to it regardless of how much what is actually happening contradicts it.

After the game I couldn't care less but I thought what he said was mostly fine.

 

[christinaa]

People do realize that Souness isn't a Liverpool fan, right? Yes. He played for Liverpool and wants them to win but he's no more of a Liverpool fan as Roy Keane Is a United fan.

Besides, if you browse on player performance threads in this place you would swear blind that this wasn't a Manchester United forum.

I just had a look at McTominay's thread. If the poor lad browses this place and goes through the aforementioned thread he'll end up with PTSD.

 

[TheBatman]

I mean, Roy Keane is obviously a United fan and this comes through very clearly in his punditry. Souness pretty equally with Liverpool.

The half time analysis was embarrassing as well. I watched a good half of football where United actually went for it, couldn't quite keep the intensity up, and got stung couple of times at the end after Liverpool had grown into the game themselves. Listening to Souness at half time you'd think it should have been 5-1 to Liverpool and United had barely strung 2 passes together.

Him and Neville are two of the worst for me. Too biased to do their job impartially and both have this habit of setting their narrative before the game and then sticking to it regardless of how much what is actually happening contradicts it.

After the game I couldn't care less but I thought what he said was mostly fine.

Obviously he wants United to win but I don't know if Keane's a fan. He definitely supported Celtic and Tottenham growing up (there's a video online).

I thought he was fine at half time.

It's strange that many people are triggered when it comes to pundits, what makes it even stranger is that so called supporters can be more vicious about their own team than any pundit.

The only pundit that annoys me is Carragher, but only because it takes him two minutes to complete a ten second sentence.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

People do realize that Souness isn't a Liverpool fan, right? Yes. He played for Liverpool and wants them to win but he's no more of a Liverpool fan as Roy Keane Is a United fan.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Players can become fans of a club after spending most of their career there. Carragher grew up supporting Everton but he's definitely now demonstrating behaviour that is consistent with being a Liverpool fan. Rio didn't grow up as a United fan, but you can't argue that he isn't one now.

Souness is certainly a Liverpool fan, and the fact that he struggles to hide his hatred towards United whenever we beat Liverpool, is exactly what you'd expect from an old bitter scouser (yes, I know he's Scottish).

 

[Steve Bruce]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Players can become fans of a club after spending most of their career there. Carragher grew up supporting Everton but he's definitely now demonstrating behaviour that is consistent with being a Liverpool fan. Rio didn't grow up as a United fan, but you can't argue that he isn't one now.

Souness is certainly a Liverpool fan, and the fact that he struggles to hide his hatred towards United whenever we beat Liverpool, is exactly what you'd expect from an old bitter scouser (yes, I know he's Scottish).

Carragher was a bigger Everton fan than Liverpool fan in the early part of his senior career. He touched on it on the overlap last week in the fan debate. He now doesn't even appear to have a soft spot for Everton, he's 100% Liverpool.

Rio hated United before coming to United, his love developed while at United.

Keane still supports Spurs, he also admitted that on the Overlap but he's still United as well.

I think it's fair to say that players that are at any team for a considerable spell of time unless it's a torrid time end up supporting that team and can support multiple teams. Then when there head to head it's who just edges it.

 

[noodlehair]

Obviously he wants United to win but I don't know if Keane's a fan. He definitely supported Celtic and Tottenham growing up (there's a video online).

I thought he was fine at half time.

It's strange that many people are triggered when it comes to pundits, what makes it even stranger is that so called supporters can be more vicious about their own team than any pundit.

The only pundit that annoys me is Carragher, but only because it takes him two minutes to complete a ten second sentence.

I wouldn't say I get triggered. Its rare they wind me up apart from its annoying when you're trying to watch a game and Neville for example wont shut up about his political views on whichever team is 2-0 down. Keep it to the podcast and just commentate on what is actually happening.

Half time punditry is a source of mild entertainment I assume, but if someone who's literally just sat and watched the game, then proceeds to talk absolute nonsense about it, its more than fair to point it out. Souness did this a lot when he was on Sky, especially when either Liverpool or United were involved, so no surprise he was at it again when they play each other.

I was trying to imagine the half time analysis if they had just watched the exact same 45 minutes, except the home team was Spurs rather than United. The narrative would have been Tottenham's brave tactics and them being unlucky to be a goal down. Instead it was just 10 minutes of "United are sh*t" from Souness. If you're paid to be a pundit I think the least you can do is put your pre-agendas/bias to one side and actually comment on the game. Rather than try to put a downer on what was actually a really good half of football.

Keane obviously supports United. Its well known he was a Celtic fan growing up. Hence the testimonial where he played a half for each team. Most players who spend a majority of their career being successful at ne club are obviously going to have a bias towards them though.

Carragher I don't mind except I think when it comes to Liverpool, he'd be as bad if not worse than Neville is with United as soon as they went through a poor spell. The 2-1 at Old Trafford last year he sounded like me if I was watching United lose. Just kept butting in to whine about how sh*te Liverpool were.

This forum is astonishingly bad for people slagging off their own players/team, I'll give you that. I think during a game or immediately after a bad performance its understandable, because fair criticism gets tangled up in the emotion of it (the exact thing I think happens with some pundits but which they should be able to keep more of a lid on when its their job to be impartial). When its just relentless day after day for often no real reason then its quite baffling...even after the game on Sunday there were so many people on here sh*tting on our players it was quite unreal.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Carragher was a bigger Everton fan than Liverpool fan in the early part of his senior career. He touched on it on the overlap last week in the fan debate. He now doesn't even appear to have a soft spot for Everton, he's 100% Liverpool.

Rio hated United before coming to United, his love developed while at United.

Keane still supports Spurs, he also admitted that on the Overlap but he's still United as well.

I think it's fair to say that players that are at any team for a considerable spell of time unless it's a torrid time end up supporting that team and can support multiple teams. Then when there head to head it's who just edges it.

That's exactly my point. I've always had my suspicions that United is Keano Is a United fan, which is why I didn't include him in my examples. You can like a club because you played for them, without being a fan. However, there are some ex-players who spent a chunk of their careers at a club and are now converted fans who love that club more than any other club they played for. Souness is a Liverpool fan, Carragher is a Liverpool fan and Rio is a United fan.

 

[Withnail]

I wouldn't say I get triggered. Its rare they wind me up apart from its annoying when you're trying to watch a game and Neville for example wont shut up about his political views on whichever team is 2-0 down. Keep it to the podcast and just commentate on what is actually happening.

Half time punditry is a source of mild entertainment I assume, but if someone who's literally just sat and watched the game, then proceeds to talk absolute nonsense about it, its more than fair to point it out. Souness did this a lot when he was on Sky, especially when either Liverpool or United were involved, so no surprise he was at it again when they play each other.

I was trying to imagine the half time analysis if they had just watched the exact same 45 minutes, except the home team was Spurs rather than United. The narrative would have been Tottenham's brave tactics and them being unlucky to be a goal down. Instead it was just 10 minutes of "United are sh*t" from Souness. If you're paid to be a pundit I think the least you can do is put your pre-agendas/bias to one side and actually comment on the game. Rather than try to put a downer on what was actually a really good half of football.

Keane obviously supports United. Its well known he was a Celtic fan growing up. Hence the testimonial where he played a half for each team. Most players who spend a majority of their career being successful at ne club are obviously going to have a bias towards them though.

Carragher I don't mind except I think when it comes to Liverpool, he'd be as bad if not worse than Neville is with United as soon as they went through a poor spell. The 2-1 at Old Trafford last year he sounded like me if I was watching United lose. Just kept butting in to whine about how sh*te Liverpool were.

This forum is astonishingly bad for people slagging off their own players/team, I'll give you that. I think during a game or immediately after a bad performance its understandable, because fair criticism gets tangled up in the emotion of it (the exact thing I think happens with some pundits but which they should be able to keep more of a lid on when its their job to be impartial). When its just relentless day after day for often no real reason then its quite baffling...even after the game on Sunday there were so many people on here sh*tting on our players it was quite unreal.

Keane literally said 'I am a Tottenham fan, they were my team growing up' recently on the Overlap. He's never said he was a United fan as far as I recall, though obviously he likes to see United do well and expects them to, due to the status of the club and the success he had during his time there. As for Celtic, he supports them in the way that many Irish people do, but it's rarely as their main team.

I agree on the punditry point. This descent into partisanship, ex-players getting tribal over the teams they used to play for and the dreaded crap banter, rather than analysing or commenting on the game neutrally is tiresome. They can mention it every so often but I find it unprofessional and it lowers the quality of the analysis.

 

[SalfordRed18]

I've been watchng a few games from the early 80s on youtube at the moment. No matter what you think of him as a pundit he was a bloody brilliant player.

Think many of us have never seen him play. Personally i rank him as probably Liverpool's best ever player. The strength, engine, passing, will to win was extraordinary.

I honestly couldn't give less of a feck how good a player he was. He's a clown now and that's all that matters imo. feck him.

 

[Sandikan]

People debating whether Keane is a United fan.
Clearly he's become one by playing for us.
Having a seasion ticket with family here after leaving ever so slightly suggests it.

 

[Woodzy]

Pretty sure that guy is a WUM.

Keane and Souness are both obviously fans of their respective clubs. Are we really claiming that you have support a club growing up to be a fan?

 

[noodlehair]

Keane literally said 'I am a Tottenham fan, they were my team growing up' recently on the Overlap. He's never said he was a United fan as far as I recall, though obviously he likes to see United do well and expects them to, due to the status of the club and the success he had during his time there. As for Celtic, he supports them in the way that many Irish people do, but it's rarely as their main team.

I agree on the punditry point. This descent into partisanship, ex-players getting tribal over the teams they used to play for and the dreaded crap banter, rather than analysing or commenting on the game neutrally is tiresome. They can mention it every so often but I find it unprofessional and it lowers the quality of the analysis.

That's it. It's not that the bias or partiality winds me up, its that they aren't interested in commenting on the actual events of the game. They comment on whatever their pre-agenda was about it before hand. Or just talk absolute waffle and share pointless in jokes that either aren't funny or no one watching cares about.

Souness is the perfect example because of his Pogba obsession. He may have had a point the first time he said it, assuming it was after a poor performance from Pogba, but then it became his narrative for EVERY United game he did punditry on, for about 4 years. Including ones where Pogba was given MOTM. You're there to give punditry on that particular game, not on what you think of one specific player's entire career.

Also when they stack the punditry with ex players for one specific team. BT do this with us a lot. It invariably means all of the punditry is focused on that team and the other one gets completely ignored. Man Utd already have their own TV channel for that.

 

[Chairman Steve]

All due to DDG absolutely smashing it at his new club right now?

 

[Rooney in Paris]

All due to DDG absolutely smashing it at his new club right now?

He's incredibly out of touch. Onana has actually been great for us overall - he cost us the group stage in the CL for the most part which was annoying, but otherwise he's been great.

 

[Mike Smalling]

All due to DDG absolutely smashing it at his new club right now?

The timing of this comment is just incredibly strange, because Onana is now actually in the middle of a pretty good period, and it is clear that he is much better at playing out from the back than DDG ever was. This would have made more sense right after we were knocked out of the Champions League. The timing of the switch can always be discussed, but we certainly needed to move on from DDG at some point.

 

[NLunited]

I‘m glad Souness is retired, he was very demeaning about MU before the game. You could see Keane getting agitated.

Well we wiped that smug look off his face didn‘t we?

 

[golden_blunder]

Ole was a Liverpool fan as was OShea

Ask them now who they support you will get a short answer “United”

 

[RedNome]

Still smarting after the weekend, Graham?

Excellent

 

[mancsarered]

Imagine if someone in your workplace retired and kept showing up outside your cubicle every day spouting off some annoying fecking opinion.

Go away you cnut.

 

[Gio]

I agree on the punditry point. This descent into partisanship, ex-players getting tribal over the teams they used to play for and the dreaded crap banter, rather than analysing or commenting on the game neutrally is tiresome. They can mention it every so often but I find it unprofessional and it lowers the quality of the analysis.

Aye, it's tedious. It's surface-level banter that is fine for a 30-second interaction between opposing fans, but mind-numbing for anyone who is watching. Sky Sports have gone big on this Talksport-style punditry in Scotland, where Sutton (Celtic) and Boyd (Rangers) add no insight or value because you already know what extreme position they're about to spout.

 

[The Oracle]

Ole was a Liverpool fan as was OShea

Ask them now who they support you will get a short answer “United”

Solskjær in 1999
90th minute winner at the Stretford End against them in the FA Cup, on the way to our historic Treble

John O’Shea in 2007
90th minute winner at the Kop End against them, on the way to our first Premier League title in four seasons

Rio Ferdinand was a Liverpool fan growing up too...

Rio Ferdinand in 2006
90th minute winner at the Stretford End against them in the Premier League, on our way to finishing a point above them in the table


Them being Liverpool fans growing up.... not a problem

 

[AbusementPark]

People debating whether Keane is a United fan.
Clearly he's become one by playing for us.
Having a seasion ticket with family here after leaving ever so slightly suggests it.

I did have a search as I always assumed he supported United, just from his punditry and reactions about how United are post Fergie. He has actually stated he never supported United even when playing for them and when he left he cut ties with the club. He did go on to say that is they are playing Liverpool then he will be supporting United but will always have a soft spot for Spurs and Celtic.

Perhaps the season ticket is to spend time with family that support United and due to him living close to the stadium. His family grew up while he played for United and developed an attachment to the club.
I go to a local clubs games, also a season ticket holder, but support their rival team, just to spend time with my son.

 

[Sandikan]

I did have a search as I always assumed he supported United, just from his punditry and reactions about how United are post Fergie. He has actually stated he never supported United even when playing for them and when he left he cut ties with the club. He did go on to say that is they are playing Liverpool then he will be supporting United but will always have a soft spot for Spurs and Celtic.

Perhaps the season ticket is to spend time with family that support United and due to him living close to the stadium. His family grew up while he played for United and developed an attachment to the club.
I go to a local clubs games, also a season ticket holder, but support their rival team, just to spend time with my son.

Many players didn't support the team they went onto become a legend at.
Keane like many is very definitely a pro United guy. To argue any different is pretty strange.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Aye, it's tedious. It's surface-level banter that is fine for a 30-second interaction between opposing fans, but mind-numbing for anyone who is watching. Sky Sports have gone big on this Talksport-style punditry in Scotland, where Sutton (Celtic) and Boyd (Rangers) add no insight or value because you already know what extreme position they're about to spout.

You're right about Sutton. He's cut from the same cloth as Souness.

I was listening to the radio on the way home from the game on Sunday. Sutton was asked who he thought would reach the FA Cup final and he said it would be a Chelsea vs Coventry final. The bloke isn't even subtle in his hatred towards United.

 

[AbusementPark]

Many players didn't support the team they went onto become a legend at.
Keane like many is very definitely a pro United guy. To argue any different is pretty strange.

I’m not arguing about it, just was curious about about whether or not he was a fan of the United or not.
So done a search and got quotes from Keane about United. He himself has said he doesn’t support United.

There’s no doubt he’s harder on United, is that down to being a fan of them or because he played for them and expects a different level for them? he was able to achieve it when he played there and still expects the same levels and results from future players.

 

[Alpha 1]

People do realize that Souness isn't a Liverpool fan, right? Yes. He played for Liverpool and wants them to win but he's no more of a Liverpool fan as Roy Keane Is a United fan.

Besides, if you browse on player performance threads in this place you would swear blind that this wasn't a Manchester United forum.

I just had a look at McTominay's thread. If the poor lad browses this place and goes through the aforementioned thread he'll end up with PTSD.

Keane is a United fan, Souness is a Liverpool fan. That is obvious and has always been so.

 

[tenpoless]

All due to DDG absolutely smashing it at his new club right now?

I thought he retired? then I saw him sitting besides Roy Keane on TV. The feck. Just go, nobody wants to see you talk.

 

[TheBatman]

I’m not arguing about it, just was curious about about whether or not he was a fan of the United or not.
So done a search and got quotes from Keane about United. He himself has said he doesn’t support United.

There’s no doubt he’s harder on United, is that down to being a fan of them or because he played for them and expects a different level for them? he was able to achieve it when he played there and still expects the same levels and results from future players.

Exactly my point. it's romanticism to think of club legends supporting the club(s) where they created said status.

It's a job for most players. Nothing more.

Kenny Dalglish is a club legend at Celtic. Is he a Celtic fan? No. He supports Rangers.

 

[TheBatman]

I thought he retired? then I saw him sitting besides Roy Keane on TV. The feck. Just go, nobody wants to see you talk.

"No one"? So you speak for everyone? Where did you gain that status?

I don't care about the clubs that pundits played for, I just want them to have passion and avoid sitting on the fence.

I like Souness and Keane as they're cut from the same cloth.

I'm expecting to be slaughtered for saying that I like hearing Souness talk about football. I don't care. We aren't zombies. We're allowed to have different opinions.

Don't like it? Meh. I genuinely don't care.

All these insults directed at Souness is a backhanded compliment. Ignorance is the biggest diss.

 

[Pickle85]

Hilarious that he clearly agreed to come back for this game in particular as he was that sure Liverpool would give us a pasting. Unlucky, you miserable, dour w*nker.

 

[AbusementPark]

Exactly my point. it's romanticism to think of club legends supporting the club(s) where they created said status.

It's a job for most players. Nothing more.

Kenny Dalglish is a club legend at Celtic. Is he a Celtic fan? No. He supports Rangers.

I genuinely thought Keane was a United fan and never questioned it until I heard about him being a Spurs fan. The way he critiques United players for poor performances gives the impression he’s a fan.

If it was just a job to him then it shows his professionalism to perform week after week for a common goal.

 

[Still ill]

"No one"? So you speak for everyone? Where did you gain that status?

I don't care about the clubs that pundits played for, I just want them to have passion and avoid sitting on the fence.

I like Souness and Keane as they're cut from the same cloth.

I'm expecting to be slaughtered for saying that I like hearing Souness talk about football. I don't care. We aren't zombies. We're allowed to have different opinions.

Don't like it? Meh. I genuinely don't care.

All these insults directed at Souness is a backhanded compliment. Ignorance is the biggest diss.

It is proven fact that just as dog owners end up resembling their dogs, football fans end up resembling their favourite pundit.

 

[horsechoker]

It is proven fact that just as fog owners end up resembling their dogs, football fans end up resembling their favourite pundit.

I'm getting misty eyed

 

[Brightonian]

"No one"? So you speak for everyone? Where did you gain that status?

I don't care about the clubs that pundits played for, I just want them to have passion and avoid sitting on the fence.

I like Souness and Keane as they're cut from the same cloth.

I'm expecting to be slaughtered for saying that I like hearing Souness talk about football. I don't care. We aren't zombies. We're allowed to have different opinions.

Don't like it? Meh. I genuinely don't care.

All these insults directed at Souness is a backhanded compliment. Ignorance is the biggest diss.

You're absolutely right, of course you're allowed to like Souness as a pundit.

But it's just wrong to call him 'passionate'. He doesn't come across as passionate. He comes across as a miserable git who doesn't think much of any of the teams he's watching and doesn't enjoy doing it. He moans and whinges and belittles and generally creates an unpleasant viewing experience regardless of what team you support. Then if you are a United fan, you also have to listen to the sound of him grinding that axe of his.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Keane has an obvious connection to United - what's his connection to Spurs? Does he go to Spurs games regularly? Has he ever talked about Spurs beyond repeating that he was a fan 40 years ago?

(He probably has, but it's not something I've noticed - unlike him talking about United literally all the time for the past 20 years or so.)

I dunno, but it seems to me that him trying to actively distance himself from United (not even a fan, never really cared about the club) comes across as rather transparent: it has a lot more to do with his relationship with Fergie - and the way in which his United career ended - than him genuinely being a massive Spurs (or Celtic, for that matter) fan.

 

[tenpoless]

"No one"? So you speak for everyone? Where did you gain that status?

I don't care about the clubs that pundits played for, I just want them to have passion and avoid sitting on the fence.

I like Souness and Keane as they're cut from the same cloth.

I'm expecting to be slaughtered for saying that I like hearing Souness talk about football. I don't care. We aren't zombies. We're allowed to have different opinions.

Don't like it? Meh. I genuinely don't care.

All these insults directed at Souness is a backhanded compliment. Ignorance is the biggest diss.

He spouts a lot of shit and his dislike towards Pogba was disgusting even if I wasn't a big fan of Pogba. It was a genuine hatred from Souness. If I want to see bitter a old man constantly moaning about United and it's players I'd sign up to RAWK, it doesn't take much.

 

[sepulturite]

"No one"? So you speak for everyone? Where did you gain that status?

I don't care about the clubs that pundits played for, I just want them to have passion and avoid sitting on the fence.

I like Souness and Keane as they're cut from the same cloth.

I'm expecting to be slaughtered for saying that I like hearing Souness talk about football. I don't care. We aren't zombies. We're allowed to have different opinions.

Don't like it? Meh. I genuinely don't care.

All these insults directed at Souness is a backhanded compliment. Ignorance is the biggest diss.

You sound like a Liverpool fan, who do you support?

 

[TheBatman]

You're absolutely right, of course you're allowed to like Souness as a pundit.

But it's just wrong to call him 'passionate'. He doesn't come across as passionate. He comes across as a miserable git who doesn't think much of any of the teams he's watching and doesn't enjoy doing it. He moans and whinges and belittles and generally creates an unpleasant viewing experience regardless of what team you support. Then if you are a United fan, you also have to listen to the sound of him grinding that axe of his.

You obviously forgot his analysis at the previous Euros when he was waxing lyrical about Billy Gilmour after dominating the England midfield.

He spouts a lot of shit and his dislike towards Pogba was disgusting even if I wasn't a big fan of Pogba. It was a genuine hatred. If I want to see bitter a old man constantly moaning about United and it's players I'd sign up to RAWK, it doesn't take much.

It was genuine hatred. He just resented the fact that Pogba was a genuine generational talent but his application didn't match it.

As a United fan I resented Pogba for it.

Some people even called Souness a racist because of it. Which is nonsense. Souness just doesn't like slackers. I remember him treatment of McCoist when he was Rangers manager.

It's funny to me that so many people get hot under the collar when it comes to pundits. People just don't like honesty. He was 100% correct about Paul Pogba but you'll still have people saying that he had a hidden agenda.

Do a Google search of "Roy Keane's scathing rant on Paul pogba". Keane says that Pogba Is a problem. That he doesn't lead by example. That Pogba doesn't make his team better, he plays for himself. He doesn't run back.

If you agree with Keane's assessment then you have to agree with Souness's, as they're the same.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

"No one"? So you speak for everyone? Where did you gain that status?

I don't care about the clubs that pundits played for, I just want them to have passion and avoid sitting on the fence.

I like Souness and Keane as they're cut from the same cloth.

I'm expecting to be slaughtered for saying that I like hearing Souness talk about football. I don't care. We aren't zombies. We're allowed to have different opinions.

Don't like it? Meh. I genuinely don't care.

All these insults directed at Souness is a backhanded compliment. Ignorance is the biggest diss.

What are thoughts on what he said about our protests against the Glazers? Quotes below.

"They’ve risked things to buy Manchester United, since then, they’ve given successive managers fortunes to spend. It’s only since Fergie stopped that the success has stopped and I think that irritates supporters and they have become the focus of their anger. I think it’s slightly misdirected".

 

[FrankDrebin]

Careful guys, it's The Batman.