Good Central Midfielders?

Maxime Gonalons or Gueida Fofana of Lyon would be decent signings who wouldn't cost a bomb, or even Joel Obi from Inter.
 
Why's he far more likely to go to spurs? Signing him is dependant on Modric leaving, which hasn't happened yet. Even then they have to agree a fee that Levy will be happy with, which might not happen.

If they do that and we make a bid also, I'd say he's comfortably more likely to come to us than spurs.
 
Theon said:
Why's he far more likely to go to spurs? Signing him is dependant on Modric leaving, which hasn't happened yet. Even then they have to agree a fee that Levy will be happy with, which might not happen.

If they do that and we make a bid also, I'd say he's comfortably more likely to come to us than spurs.
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There's been no mention of us putting bid in, Spurs have openly expressed interest.

If we do actually put a bid in, things will change. But we don't seem to like midfielders here anymore, they're the devils spawn.
 
TDon69 said:
Probably, but he's a player who'd fit in well and we'd actually be in with a chance of signing, should we be interested.
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I can see it being a Modric situation if we don't go for him and Spurs do, he'll be excellent for them and we'll be linked to him in the near future for stupid money.
 
If Madrid do end up buying Modric then surely Sahin might be on the move.
 
Cheesy said:
He's worth more to that than Spurs because they know several clubs are interested and they're going to try and get as much for him as they can.

No, I do not think Modric is worth more than £25m and I'm of the opinion that he's an overrated midfielder who would improve our midfield slightly, but who would not solve some of our major problems such as coping under high pressure. I've stated my thoughts of him in the Modric thread quite a few times so if you want to see more of what I mean have a look through my posts in that thread.
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How can you say Modric isn't worth £25m, yet Martinez is worth £32m? Modric is the more proven player. I don't give a feck what Martinez did in under 21 championships. He has been playing for Bilbao as a first team regular for 5 years prior to that tournament, of course he'd look like a world beater against players far back in their development relative to him. Even then, he wasn't even the most Impressive Spanish player in that tournament, Thiago and Mata were.

Most people judge him on the basis of the Europa league games when they dominated, Ajax also did the same in the previous round, and likewise a considerable number of teams over the past 3 years. The sad reality is that you don't have to be a world beater in midfield to go toe to toe with United's midfield these days .

Even ignoring all that, he wasn't part of the midfield that dominated united, he was playing in CB. He wasn't even the most impressive Bilbao player in those ties, Herrera and Munain were.​

Cheesy said:
That's nonsense then. We have to accept that defence is the only part where we can match them at the moment. Unless we got very lucky, they would comfortably dispose of us over two legs.
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Do you also think Bayern are a comfortably superior to United? Because they outplayed Madrid in both legs, created the better chances and deservedly went through to the finals.​
 
VoetbalWizard said:
sven and lars bender both would be good. Overlooked on here.

Double raid fergie, do it, a couple of good german lads who are young and ooze quality.
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I was surprised to hear Sir Alex say that he had a full-time scout in Germany, who he then praise him highly - isn't Kawaga the first German-based player we've bought since Hargreaves in 2007? And Zieler one of the very few Germans we've signed?

I'm sure there's a lot more to being a scout than just arranging reports on players - but seriously I'm surprised to hear we have someone there at all, nevermind full-time.
 
Antisocial said:
I was surprised to hear Sir Alex say that he had a full-time scout in Germany, who he then praise him highly - isn't Kawaga the first German-based player we've bought since Hargreaves in 2007? And Zieler one of the very few Germans we've signed?

I'm sure there's a lot more to being a scout than just arranging reports on players - but seriously I'm surprised to hear we have someone there at all, nevermind full-time.
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I woud hope we would have at least one full time scout in every major footballing country...germany, spain, italy, france, argentina, brazil, benelux.

I would hope we would have a scouting team in africa as well (but perhaps not due to work permit issues in bringing lads back).
 
Inspectah deck said:
Even ignoring all that, he wasn't part of the midfield that dominated united, he was playing in CB. He wasn't even the most impressive Bilbao player in those ties, Herrera and Munain were.
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That would be amazy!
 
I'd still take Fellaini. Think he'd be seriously useful in our team. Not exactly marquee, but cheapish, youngish and proven.
 
Beachryan said:
I'd still take Fellaini. Think he'd be seriously useful in our team. Not exactly marquee, but cheapish, youngish and proven.
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He won't be cheap at all. Fellani would be an excellent signing for us, can't see it happening though.
 
VoetbalWizard said:
I woud hope we would have at least one full time scout in every major footballing country...germany, spain, italy, france, argentina, brazil, benelux.
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Absolutely; my point was more that with so little action from ourselves in the German market, I was surprised we had someone there full-time.
 
Inspectah deck said:
How can you say Modric isn't worth £25m, yet Martinez is worth £32m? Modric is the more proven player. I don't give a feck what Martinez did in under 21 championships. He has been playing for Bilbao as a first team regular for 5 years prior to that tournament, of course he'd look like a world beater against players far back in their development relative to him. Even then, he wasn't even the most Impressive Spanish player in that tournament, Thiago and Mata were.

Most people judge him on the basis of the Europa league games when they dominated, Ajax also did the same in the previous round, and likewise a considerable number of teams over the past 3 years. The sad reality is that you don't have to be a world beater in midfield to go toe to toe with United's midfield these days .

Even ignoring all that, he wasn't part of the midfield that dominated united, he was playing in CB. He wasn't even the most impressive Bilbao player in those ties, Herrera and Munain were.

Do you also think Bayern are a comfortably superior to United? Because they outplayed Madrid in both legs, created the better chances and deservedly went through to the finals.​
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On the first point, it's not a case of who is the more proven player. I've said that I think Modric is overrated a million times and I have explained why. I'm not going to change my opinion on that matter if Modric stays the same as a footballer. He could have been in this league for another decade and it wouldn't mean diddly squat to me, simply because he doesn't solve our midfield problems. He's good, yes, but he won't improve us when we're under high pressure for example, a massive problem of ours. Anyone who says otherwise should go back and watch him in some of Spurs games against bigger teams last year. He was often overran in midfield and didn't look at all like the world class midfielder many claim he is.

Martinez, on the other hand, is solid in the centre of midfield and as a defensive midfielder. His ability to play as a defensive mid, or his composure on the ball, would be a massive addition for us in the middle and would really help solve some of our problems there. I think he's worth more than Modric personally.

On the second point, why should we start bringing other teams into it as well? Bilbao disposed of us over two legs, yet they are a far inferior team to Real Madrid, for example. On that point though, I would argue that in attack Bayern are a stronger side than us at the moment, while we are generally stronger than them in defence. I wouldn't bet against this Bayern side prevailing against us over two legs if they played the right tactics.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Maxime Gonalons or Gueida Fofana of Lyon would be decent signings who wouldn't cost a bomb, or even Joel Obi from Inter.
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If we are talking about the same player, then Joel Obi would not be a decent signing, only a quantity signing. About two others, I haven't seen them playing.
 
We can't just keep on letting all the top talents around Europe slip through our bet and into that of competitions.
 
SAF seems to have found Scholes long term replacement in Powell, not sure we will sign another CM.
 
I think we need to understand what Sir Alex is actually looking for in a midfielder. After being humilated by Barcelona twice, I think the biggest change we've made is the type of midfielder we want. There are very few box-to-box midfielders and we're not looking a for holding midfielders or destroyers, Sir Alex confirmed this by saying this last season:
“If you look at the examples, Fabregas was one of the best midfield players in England for five years but he wasn’t a big lad and wasn’t a holding player,” said Sir Alex. “He was an attacking player. Xavi and [Andres] Iniesta are small players – you can’t call them holding players.

"I don’t think we’ve had a holding player since I’ve been here. We’ve never had a holding player.

“We tried to get Roy Keane to do that but he just couldn’t do it. He had to play a way that was his own way of playing, so I’ve not had it for 25 years. Why should I think about it now?”
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What he is looking for are players who are technically gifted and have good energy. It's no surprise he saw no problem with playing Park and Rafael in midfield, moved Giggs to central midfield or paired Anderson with Cleverley when neither of them are great defensively. It is because they have the qualities he's looking for; good on the ball and willing to press. I'm willing to bet that Kagawa will probably play in midfield more often than not, except in the big games where we'll only use striker. To further back up my point, look at the players that we can confirm we've tried to sign like Sneijder and Nasri who wouldn't of been played out wide considering we'd signed Young and were still trying to bring him in.

This is probably a direct result of more teams trying to play pressing football like Barcelona. Pressing football doesn't really work if the player has the skills to get away from it. You only have to look at the Euro's as a good example of this. When players like Iniesta, Xavi, Modric or Pirlo were pressed, they almost walked away from it and kept possession. When Scotty Parker and De Jong (2 Destroyers) were pressed they easily lost the ball.
 
manutddjw said:
I think we need to understand what Sir Alex is actually looking for in a midfielder. After being humilated by Barcelona twice, I think the biggest change we've made is the type of midfielder we want. There are very few box-to-box midfielders and we're not looking a for holding midfielders or destroyers, Sir Alex confirmed this by saying this last season:


What he is looking for are players who are technically gifted and have good energy. It's no surprise he saw no problem with playing Park and Rafael in midfield, moved Giggs to central midfield or paired Anderson with Cleverley when neither of them are great defensively. It is because they have the qualities he's looking for; good on the ball and willing to press. I'm willing to bet that Kagawa will probably play in midfield more often than not, except in the big games where we'll only use striker. To further back up my point, look at the players that we can confirm we've tried to sign like Sneijder and Nasri who wouldn't of been played out wide considering we'd signed Young and were still trying to bring him in.

This is probably a direct result of more teams trying to play pressing football like Barcelona. Pressing football doesn't really work if the player has the skills to get away from it. You only have to look at the Euro's as a good example of this. When players like Iniesta, Xavi, Modric or Pirlo were pressed, they almost walked away from it and kept possession. When Scotty Parker and De Jong (2 Destroyers) were pressed they easily lost the ball.
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Its probably just a shame them when we are pressed.. We just never keep the ball!! Needs to start putting the philosophy in practice then really.
 
manutddjw said:
I think we need to understand what Sir Alex is actually looking for in a midfielder. After being humilated by Barcelona twice, I think the biggest change we've made is the type of midfielder we want. There are very few box-to-box midfielders and we're not looking a for holding midfielders or destroyers, Sir Alex confirmed this by saying this last season:


What he is looking for are players who are technically gifted and have good energy. It's no surprise he saw no problem with playing Park and Rafael in midfield, moved Giggs to central midfield or paired Anderson with Cleverley when neither of them are great defensively. It is because they have the qualities he's looking for; good on the ball and willing to press. I'm willing to bet that Kagawa will probably play in midfield more often than not, except in the big games where we'll only use striker. To further back up my point, look at the players that we can confirm we've tried to sign like Sneijder and Nasri who wouldn't of been played out wide considering we'd signed Young and were still trying to bring him in.

This is probably a direct result of more teams trying to play pressing football like Barcelona. Pressing football doesn't really work if the player has the skills to get away from it. You only have to look at the Euro's as a good example of this. When players like Iniesta, Xavi, Modric or Pirlo were pressed, they almost walked away from it and kept possession. When Scotty Parker and De Jong (2 Destroyers) were pressed they easily lost the ball.
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that doesn't work when you only want to field 2 man-midfields, with two wide lads and two lads up front.

So what SAF 'says' he wants would not work for the majority of games.

Fergie is trying that elusive technically gifted player, that presses, but also works back and tackles and does more defensive work than most continental technicians provide.

All because he will not give up 2 man midfields of which we are the last club other than bayern to play them for most of our matches.
 
VoetbalWizard said:
that doesn't work when you only want to field 2 man-midfields, with two wide lads and two lads up front.

So what SAF 'says' he wants would not work for the majority of games.

Fergie is trying that elusive technically gifted player, that presses, but also works back and tackles and does more defensive work than most continental technicians provide.

All because he will not give up 2 man midfields of which we are the last club other than bayern to play them for most of our matches.
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Spain used a non-orthodox 4-6-0 formation and Italy played old-fashion 3-5-2.

IMO we are moving to 4-2-3-1 formation so this set up doesn't require any particular sort of midfielder. You can fit in a box to box, destroyer or deep sitting mid easily.

I just hope SAF signs somebody who can hold the ball.
 
I'd try to get one of Real Madrid's midfielders. With Modric arriving they are going to have Alonso, Diarra, Khedira, Sahin, Granero and Modric for just two places. Khedira would be a great signing, as would be Sahin but I wouldn't really mind Diarra or even Granero at this point.
 
Sunny Jim said:
Spain used a non-orthodox 4-6-0 formation and Italy played old-fashion 3-5-2.

IMO we are moving to 4-2-3-1 formation so this set up doesn't require any particular sort of midfielder. You can fit in a box to box, destroyer or deep sitting mid easily.

I just hope SAF signs somebody who can hold the ball.
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I remain skeptical about this.

Fergie wont give up 442 that easy even though the game at the most elite end has moved on.
 
We've just reverted to playing 4-4-2 in my opinion. 2006-2011 we never played 4-4-2 against the big sides (except in isolated cases). It was either a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3.

I don't care about who we bring in, as long as he's good. We've played the likes of Park, Rafael and an inconsistent Giggs there, almost any midfielder at the top 15 clubs in Europe can come in and do very well.
 
Isn't what we've been playing pretty much a 4-2-3-1?

-----Carrick---Scholes---
Valencia---Rooney-----Nani
-----------Welbeck-------
 
I dont think we can say Rooney plays as deep as Valencia and Nani so there's just as much weight to 4-4-1-1 as 4-2-3-1

Perhaps a more accurate representation would be 4-2-2-1-1 but then where does this end?

Evra is further forward than our other defenders, do we then say 3-1-2-2-1-1 ?
 
I wonder how much Ander Iturraspe would be worth. He's quality and would provide great cover for Carrick/Fletcher and probably good enough technically to play beside Carrick.

Can't help but see Jones will be groomed to play like Carrick until Carrick hangs up the boots or moves on.
 
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