Glazers / Woodward out! (One down)

It doesn't matter who's managing or playing for the club we'll still struggle until we get rid of these parasites and their toxic culture they bring.
 
Tincanalley said:
Good to see this thread being bumped. We need to keep saying it, showing our feelings. Woody seems have made a few noises lately, which shows he is at least trying to have a positive image with the support base of the club.
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We should keep bumping this. I aim to post here after every game regardless of the result.

feck off Ed.
 
On July 23, 2019, Darcie Glazer Kassewitz (the “Trustee”) entered into a mortgage loan agreement (the “July 2019 Loan Agreement”) with UBS Bank USA. As security for the Trustee’s obligations under the Loan Agreement, the Darcie S. Glazer Irrevocable Exempt Trust (the “Trust”) pledged 773,000 Class B ordinary shares (the “July 2019 Pledged Shares”) pursuant to a MortgagePlus Securities Collateral Pledge and Guaranty Agreement (the “July 2019 Pledge Agreement”) by and between the Trust and UBS Bank USA, dated as of July 23, 2019. All voting rights and rights to receive dividends or distributions with respect to the July 2019 Pledged Shares will remain with the Trust unless an event of default under the July 2019 Loan Agreement has occurred and is continuing.
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Hi guys, Darcie is buying a new house and pledged some Man Utd shares as collateral. Please don't rock the boat too much eh
 
Johan07 said:
You dont think Apple pays interest on their debt? How is that taking money out of the club? Its a business.
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Apple has enough cash on its balance sheet to pay it off and some more. They use debt to optimize capital and get the tax shield.

United was a leverage buyout, they have paid PIK loan interest up the wazoo although it seems now debt is at a manageable level. I have to say Glazers were really lucky and beneficiary of a global low interest rate environment caused by the credit crunch. No way they could have foreseen when they bought United that interest rates would practically be close to zero.
 
Suedesi said:
Hi guys, Darcie is buying a new house and pledged some Man Utd shares as collateral. Please don't rock the boat too much eh
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Dont you want the Glazers out? You should rejoice, or dont you know what this (which is not news) actually means?
 
A timeline of Woodwood errors/mistakes and general stupidity would be grim reading. Feel free to add more from what I remember.

The Moyes era: makes an insulting bid of 20 million for BOTH Fellani and Baines at Everton for which they rightly tell us to get stuffed . Refuses to pay Fellaini's 23.5 million buy out clause which expires before the end of the window. Says he has urgent transfer business amid rumours of Cesc Fabregas being available, this doesn't lead to anything. Pays 27 million for Fellaini in a panic buy before the window shuts when he was available for 23 million only a few weeks earlier. Moyes is sacked and doesn't have anything good to say about Ed.

LVG era: Buys Herrera and Shaw, and is seemingly happy to leave it at that. We lose 2-1 on the opening day of the season, buys Di Maria, Falcao and Blind to make amends. LVG leaves and doesn't have anything good to say about him and says United are a business and not a football club.

Jose: The Sanchez signing and ridiculous money he was given. A net spend in the third season of 70 million on a Brazilian midfielder player and a teenage full back right after the season we finish 19 points behind Man City (yeah, those two signings are really going to close the gap). Jose leaves, again details emerge that suggest he wasn't happy with Ed.

Ole: Midfield and attack are neglected when two experienced players leave and aren't replaced, a net spend of around 60 million (?) . Season looks like it's going to be a very long and difficult one.

I wonder if Ole will make it 4 out of 4 of managers who are critical about him if he gets the sack.
 
Suedesi said:
Apple has enough cash on its balance sheet to pay it off and some more. They use debt to optimize capital and get the tax shield.

United was a leverage buyout, they have paid PIK loan interest up the wazoo although it seems now debt is at a manageable level. I have to say Glazers were really lucky and beneficiary of a global low interest rate environment caused by the credit crunch. No way they could have foreseen when they bought United that interest rates would practically be close to zero.
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Yeah, so what? I was adamently against the takeover also when it happened. It was way too much risk IMO then. The Glazers bet heavily on not maybe interest rates, but a continous development of the PL and TV-rights and that Sir Alex would keep us successful.
And they turned out to be right.
Today you can say that they were lucky as feck or that they were operating with Thoros-sight and it was a great financial decision.
Whatever rocks your boat I guess. I really dont care anymore. Is it really important going forward?
This was one year after Leeds went pretty much bankrupt.
Its not like United was a hot commodity then.
Its easy to say in retrospect now, but you should really go back and consider the completely disastrous takeovers that have taken place with PL--clubs since 2000 upon to 2010ish when the Pl was established financially:
Shinawatra, Gillett and Hicks, the list just goes on and on. There are basically two successful takeovers from that time and thats the Glazers and Abramovich (who came later).
Thats history now and we are in a great financial position.
I seriously dont see the issue with rambling over what has happened. If anything we should be happy that we were not for sale when Shinawatra and/or Gillett and Hicks entered the game.
What I am seriously worried about is that we will be Shinawatradid now if the Glazers do sell. I rather stick to the devil I know as long as they bankroll the club footballing-wise as they have been doing since they took over.
 
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Johan07 said:
You dont think Apple pays interest on their debt? How is that taking money out of the club? Its a business.
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We're not Apple. That money could've been spent elsewhere.

Or, if you're championing tax avoidance, we're a UK club as founded, so should reduce the debt and pay our proper taxes. Better the money go into UK schools than the Glazers pocket.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
We're not Apple. That money could've been spent elsewhere.

Or, if you're championing tax avoidance, we're a UK club as founded, so should reduce the debt and pay our proper taxes. Better the money go into UK schools than the Glazers pocket.
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Fluctuation0161 said:
We're not Apple. That money could've been spent elsewhere.

Or, if you're championing tax avoidance, we're a UK club as founded, so should reduce the debt and pay our proper taxes. Better the money go into UK schools than the Glazers pocket.
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But to the Glazers we are. As is Liverpool to FSG. I guess its fine to be a romantic and think that it could be differently. But its not realistic.
They are in it for the money. As would any other buyer of United be.
Your type of "argumentation" is only valid if you can present someone else that would be totally benevolant for some reason. And there you have the Saudis; even if I dont think that even they are interested anymore because of how the other Arab states sports washing projects have gone so far. The Doha Athletics fiasco being the last example.
 
Johan07 said:
But to the Glazers we are. As is Liverpool to FSG. I guess its fine to be a romantic and think that it could be differently. But its not realistic.
They are in it for the money. As would any other buyer of United be.
Your type of "argumentation" is only valid if you can present someone else that would be totally benevolant for some reason. And there you have the Saudis; even if I dont think that even they are interested anymore because of how the other Arab states sports washing projects have gone so far. The Doha Athletics fiasco being the last example.
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To the Glazers we are just another company for them to bleed dry. And therein lies the problem.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
To the Glazers we are just another company for them to bleed dry. And therein lies the problem.
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a) They are not bleeding us dry. Its quite the opposite actually if you look at the actual numbers. We have a terrible yield on the NYSE.
b) So who is the alternative that is guaranteed to be better or even the same?
 
Johan07 said:
a) They are not bleeding us dry. Its quite the opposite actually if you look at the actual numbers. We have a terrible yield on the NYSE.
b) So who is the alternative that is guaranteed to be better or even the same?
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Looks at the numbers in comparison with other too clubs. Revenue has increased at a faster rate for other clubs. This is in line with premiership revenue growth. Add into that fact the debt repayments, inconsistent spending and poor strategy. We should be doing so so much better.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Looks at the numbers in comparison with other too clubs. Revenue has increased at a faster rate for other clubs. This is in line with premiership revenue growth. Add into that fact the debt repayments, inconsistent spending and poor strategy. We should be doing so so much better.
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Aha. Have a nice evening and enjoy the CL-games.
 
Johan07 said:
a) They are not bleeding us dry. Its quite the opposite actually if you look at the actual numbers. We have a terrible yield on the NYSE.
b) So who is the alternative that is guaranteed to be better or even the same?
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They have made billions in principle once they sell us and not done so bad in the meantime for a leveraged buy out.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
They have made billions in principle once they sell us and not done so bad in the meantime for a leveraged buy out.
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They have done extremely well. I agree. It was kinda their plan you know. Whats your point?
 
Johan07 said:
Yeah, so what? I was adamently against the takeover also when it happened. It was way too much risk IMO then. The Glazers bet heavily on not maybe interest rates, but a continous development of the PL and TV-rights and that Sir Alex would keep us successful.
And they turned out to be right.
Today you can say that they were lucky as feck or that they were operating with Thoros-sight and it was a great financial decision.
Whatever rocks your boat I guess. I really dont care anymore. Is it really important going forward?
This was one year after Leeds went pretty much bankrupt.
Its not like United was a hot commodity then.
Its easy to say in retrospect now, but you should really go back and consider the completely disastrous takeovers that have taken place with PL--clubs since 2000 upon to 2010ish when the Pl was established financially:
Shinawatra, Gillett and Hicks, the list just goes on and on. There are basically two successful takeovers from that time and thats the Glazers and Abramovich (who came later).
Thats history now and we are in a great financial position.
I seriously dont see the issue with rambling over what has happened. If anything we should be happy that we were not for sale when Shinawatra and/or Gillett and Hicks entered the game.
What I am seriously worried about is that we will be Shinawatradid now if the Glazers do sell. I rather stick to the devil I know as long as they bankroll the club footballing-wise as they have been doing since they took over.
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Hey pipe down kiddo
 
The incredible inept planning from Ed and Glazer's beggars belief. With all the money and prestige at their disposal, crazy how shocking they've run our football team.

Need to find ways of getting rid of these guys. I mean look at Red Bull. They have 2 teams in the CL. And we'll be struggling to even get in the Europa League next year. Shows what actual planning does.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
Erm they are only in it for the money.

What was yours?
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My point was just that. Who would be your unicorn that would not be in it for the money if they would invest in a 4bn plus United?
Of course they are just in it for the money. They have always been and always will.
 
Johan07 said:
My point was just that. Who would be your unicorn that would not be in it for the money if they would invest in a 4bn plus United?
Of course they are just in it for the money. They have always been and always will.
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You stated they are not bleeding us dry, the net spend every year since they took over would argue the exact opposite.

If we could invest just our profit annually we would be untouchable.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
You stated they are not bleeding us dry, the net spend every year since they took over would argue the exact opposite.

If we could invest just our profit annually we would be untouchable.
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Not under these morons at the club. They wouldn't even know how to spend the extra money on the team.

Even they don't want to leave, just get some proper football guys in to make the proper footballing decisions.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
You stated they are not bleeding us dry, the net spend every year since they took over would argue the exact opposite.

If we could invest just our profit annually we would be untouchable.
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"Net spend" is an infantile teenage FM expression. It means nothing in the real world. If you are going to judge owners on what they are spending on the club you should go a) wage bill, b) gross spend and maybe c) dividends taken out of the club. I will let you do the math yourself
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
They have made billions in principle once they sell us and not done so bad in the meantime for a leveraged buy out.
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I wonder how much of a cut of the billions Woodward will get when they do eventually sell for billions? After all, he was the key player in leveraging the buy-out. The biggest villain in the club’s history.
 
Johan07 said:
"Net spend" is an infantile teenage FM expression. It means nothing in the real world. If you are going to judge owners on what they are spending on the club you should go a) wage bill, b) gross spend and maybe c) dividends taken out of the club. I will let you do the math yourself
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Yep they take £20m+ a year out every year, Woodward took a 60% pay rise last year for what I assume was financial success certainly not sporting success and they do not spend a fecking penny of their own money on any signings.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
Yep they take £20m+ a year out every year, Woodward took a 60% pay rise last year for what I assume was financial success certainly not sporting success and they do not spend a fecking penny of their own money on any signings.
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So which CEO do you think would have been paid less? Or is being paid less. Serious question.
The rest of what you wrote is just rubbish, sorry. The Glazers control the club. Its their money. Its not a difference between "their" money and "our" money. Now I am out of this franly stupid discussion.
 
the chameleon said:
I wonder how much of a cut of the billions Woodward will get when they do eventually sell for billions? After all, he was the key player in leveraging the buy-out. The biggest villain in the club’s history.
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He will ride off into the sunset with one of the biggest payoffs in sporting history without a care in the world.
 
I am blocking myself from this thread. It gives me an headache.
 
Johan07 said:
So which CEO do you think would have been paid less? Or is being paid less. Serious question.
The rest of what you wrote is just rubbish, sorry. The Glazers control the club. Its their money. Its not a difference between "their" money and "our" money. Now I am out of this franly stupid discussion.
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Your insane, spending the clubs money is not even close to spending their own. Each purchase is an investment they hope to monetise eventually ie pogba. Not every player signing works especially with the Woodward clown but the intention is there.

Woodward “ success on the pitch doesn’t affect our profits” or something close to, stop drinking the Kool-aid if that is what your doing after years of embarrassing management.
 
Johan07 said:
I am blocking myself from this thread. It gives me an headache.
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Johan clearly knows his stuff, financially. But he's far too lenient of the Glazers and Woodward. Whats the point of being the richest club in the world when you constantly blow that money on garbage decisions?

Yes a lot of owners are terrible. They're all in it for the money but at least some of them are smart. Why shouldn't we be pissed off that ours aren't getting the club to reach its vast potential?
 
The Glazers - people that don't even know what football is let alone care for it. Meaning they have to delegate. How would those people chose the right people to run the club? On recommendations. From who? They install their buddy Woodward and trust him with everything. He on the other hand surrounds himself with similar people like him. Creates a great environment of lack of accountability.

How can we fix things when the foundations are so rotten?
I bet my life that most people working at United right now are there for the money only and their only job is to keep themselves employed.
And I bet these people do their utmost to undermine the few people who actually care and are trying to stop the rot.
OGS is one that loves the club but he's being used and will be eventually thrown under the bus so that the cycle continues.

Protests had to have started yesterday. People need to wake up, match going fans especially. Don't turn your frustration towards OGS and his lack of managerial skills, or Lingard or whomever. There's much bigger issues at hand.

I know it's nigh impossible but we have to try and force them out.
 
FreakyJim said:
The Glazers - people that don't even know what football is let alone care for it. Meaning they have to delegate. How would those people chose the right people to run the club? On recommendations. From who? They install their buddy Woodward and trust him with everything. He on the other hand surrounds himself with similar people like him. Creates a great environment of lack of accountability.

How can we fix things when the foundations are so rotten?
I bet my life that most people working at United right now are there for the money only and their only job is to keep themselves employed.
And I bet these people do their utmost to undermine the few people who actually care and are trying to stop the rot.
OGS is one that loves the club but he's being used and will be eventually thrown under the bus so that the cycle continues.

Protests had to have started yesterday. People need to wake up, match going fans especially. Don't turn your frustration towards OGS and his lack of managerial skills, or Lingard or whomever. There's much bigger issues at hand.

I know it's nigh impossible but we have to try and force them out.
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All this!! I've not come across one supporter who is happy with the current situation of the club, however, are not willing to do anything about it! Quite shocking really.
 
First thing that has to be done is immediately stop buying merchandise and everybody of us worldwide can easily do this....Match going supporters need to stop wearing the man utd shirts and instead wear a plain red t-shirt until something gives up. If in one month time nothing comes up then more serious actions need to be taken.
 
I am wishing every morning I get up that I will read or hear that Manchester United is being sold. Sooner the better.
 
Johan07 said:
You dont think Apple pays interest on their debt? How is that taking money out of the club? Its a business.
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Because it's a debt they have created buying the club mainly with a loan and using the clubs profit to pay it off. It's not money invested into the club is it?

If they hadn't saddled with club with the highest debt in the world for a football maybe Fergie wouldnt' have been replacing Ronaldo and tevez with Antonion Valencia and Michael Owen neither more or less replacing players like Rio with Chris Smalling and Paul Scholes with Tom Cleverly.
 
Bestietom said:
I am wishing every morning I get up that I will read or hear that Manchester United is being sold. Sooner the better.
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I would be careful what you wish for. Another heavily leveraged purchase is a real possibility here. The debt is reducing to a level where its almost irrelevant now. A leveraged buyout would set us back 5-10 years and we'll likely be playing at the newly branded Burger King Stadium within 2.
 
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