Striker and that's not even a contest.
GK or ST
- Thread starter AshRK
- Start date
I don't care about Martial I'd get rid of him regardless. I also don't care what other teams have done, not many have been in a position where it's either or, or have a squad where positions have just been neglected for years due to sheer incompetence and offering worthless players huge contracts for doing feck all.
Rashford can score goals, he scored 30 mostly playing off the left wing. He'd hit that easily again playing through the middle. Ideally, you want to get a new keeper and a new striker, but if I had to choose based on what this team needs most, in my opnion then I pick a keeper to be able to play higher, press higher and create more control over possesion, then I'd play Rashford through the middle as a main striker. You could add the other 30 goals from other players scoring 10 each from the wide areas or midfield, Garnacho, Antony, Bruno, Sancho should all score 8-10 goals each when you improve ball retention and play most of the game in the opposition half.
I'm an advocate of goalkeepers and their influence on both mentality and tactics, but let's be honest, the GK position is not where the team lacks quality. Every keeper has his bad hair days, and they typically get annoying when you don't score more than you concede. Look, Brentford and Fulham scored more this season - it's in that department where investments must be made, and rather two than one should Greenwood not return. The budget restriction I will believe when the club says so, and then there's also this: would you say new owners make a bang with a star keeper- or a star striker? To me, it's all about a top guy upfront, and if there's still some budget left, or made available through sales, then add a Lobotka type of player for midfield.
We need long term solutions for both positions, obviously, but we should only be looking to spend big on a new striker. We really don’t need to break the bank to upgrade from DDG.
ST EASLY
Don’t see it as a relevant dilemma really. Recruit wisely and we can sign both a ST and a GK.
Not even a debate needed. Striker all day and every day…. Period
We need a bloody striker.
It has to be at least 1 striker, a good striker we score in the West Ham and Brighton games. Even the best goalkeepers will all make mistakes, it's up to the forwards to have enough goals to cover this on the occasions it does happen. At the moment we just don't have that.
We only have Martial (forget on loan Weghorst, he'll be gone) and he should have been shown the door before now.
So assuming Martial can be moved on this summer, we have nobody, other that playing Rashford there.
A new keeper won't solve that problem on its own.
We need 2x strikers before we buy in a replacement for DDG's, not one.
The next priority is a good versatile CDM to play with and provide cover for a soon to be ageing Casemiro.
Someone who's more robust and a good ball winner than anyone else we could trust from the present squad.
Our two biggest problems are not being able to score goals and having a soft midfield that struggle to take command of a game, when teams steamroller through us with comparative ease.
A new keeper can wait.
So assuming Martial can be moved on this summer, we have nobody, other that playing Rashford there.
A new keeper won't solve that problem on its own.
We need 2x strikers before we buy in a replacement for DDG's, not one.
The next priority is a good versatile CDM to play with and provide cover for a soon to be ageing Casemiro.
Someone who's more robust and a good ball winner than anyone else we could trust from the present squad.
Our two biggest problems are not being able to score goals and having a soft midfield that struggle to take command of a game, when teams steamroller through us with comparative ease.
A new keeper can wait.
A striker
When there are multiple goalkeepers who are better than De Gea available for under £10 million, it’s not an either/or situation. De Gea is one of the worst regular starting goalkeepers in Europe. You could buy a massive upgrade for what we’d get for selling Henderson and have change left over to cover the newcomers wages for a season.
Think we need a new topic.
A GK who can play as a striker?
A GK who can play as a striker?
We need at least one other player that can score more than a goal very other game. Our problem over the last few months hasn't been noy creating chances but not converting enough of our chances to put matches to bed.
To score goals, we need to have possession, otherwise we will stuck with counter attacking to score goals. It's going to be hard to have possession if our keeper hoof the ball most of the times.
That's true, but what's equally true is that we don't convert the chances we presently create. I'm not 100% sold on the use of xG as a metric but it's all we have. We meaningfully under perform our attacking xG vs actual goals scored, and over perform the xG for defensive stats. Put simply, our strikers are missing chances they would be expected to score, our defenders and keeper are keeping out opposition attacks that would be expected to result in goals.
We obviously need a new keeper, no one disputes that, but if it was the choice of a keeper or a goal scoring number 9, then the striker is more important, all day long.
So in this case, are you on spend the money on Kane/Osimhen or are you on the alternative striker like Muani/Hojlund?
I'd like to think a cheaper option can be found than spending 100m on a 30 year old Harry Kane. Think we're all a bit scared by the Alexi Sanchez experience.
We need both.
Infact we need 2 strikers and a new keeper.
If i were to choose id go for keeper first, because he gets targetted.
I really cant see us go top 4 next season without a new keeper.
I think Newcastle, Liverpool an Chelsea will improve greatly next season. Then add maybe a more robust Arsenal and we will have a challenge allready.
Infact we need 2 strikers and a new keeper.
If i were to choose id go for keeper first, because he gets targetted.
I really cant see us go top 4 next season without a new keeper.
I think Newcastle, Liverpool an Chelsea will improve greatly next season. Then add maybe a more robust Arsenal and we will have a challenge allready.
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He has proven himself over years and is a key part of Spurs so not surprising he is so pricey
Yeah we need both without doubt,however ST has to be the top priority and where majority of the budget is spent
It's the most hipster football fan/ youtuber to even think this is a debate. It's striker. We underperform very badly in xG vs goals not to mention we simply lack bodies there. I would argue a mid is second, relegating GK to third at best as a neccesity.
ST but it’s close. GK is critical at this point. Has been for 3 years.
I don't really see why it would be a decision to make. They're both glaringly obvious transfers that need to be done. You can't have ineptitude at both ends of the pitch. Think about it, they're 2 positions out of 11 but they disproportionately impact attack and defence. Nobody to put the ball away is useless and a keeper flapping and causing panic and pumping it up the pitch destroys possession play and defensive calmness.
Creativity is main problem, the second is controlling games.
I think we should spend big on someone like Kvaratskhelia first, Rashford can move to ST for now.
Then we need a really good number 8 to help us control possession.
Someone that is very press resistant and very good at passing.
I think we should spend big on someone like Kvaratskhelia first, Rashford can move to ST for now.
Then we need a really good number 8 to help us control possession.
Someone that is very press resistant and very good at passing.
If we're going to prioritise, it's a striker.
We need more goals if we're going to keep up and compete for top 4 next year.
Looks like we might scrape it this season just....
We need more goals if we're going to keep up and compete for top 4 next year.
Looks like we might scrape it this season just....
A striker, as for GK force Henderson to eat humble pie
On the bolded... hard no. Like, that's not even an opinion, that's a hard factual no.
Controlling and dictating games does not start or end anywhere, it is a whole team effort. I've seen plenty argue that dictating games start from the front, by having a good team collective press. Or argue that you achieve that by having an excellent midfield (Pep's Barca-style) that is press resistant and never gives up the ball. Valdés played for us too remember? He wasn't particularly amazing with his feet and he wasn't the reason Pep's Barca were dominating teams, was he? You need the right coaching and right balance of all the components in your team. A GK is just one of your 11 players and if your attack, midfield and defence (i.e. the other 10) are simply exceptional then he becomes the least important player for the control and domination of the game.
If you believe that we have all the other components in place and all we are lacking is a GK with good distribution, I'd say that's another hard no from me. You can put whoever you think is the best GK in the world in this team and I guarantee he will only make a marginal improvement in the team's ability to control games if all else stays the same.
We currently don't seem to have a problem with conceding too many chances, given that we have the second best defence in the country after Newcastle and the biggest amount of clean sheets. We do however have a problem with finishing chances, given we are creating a lot of them and yet have 9th best attack in the country. Literally mid-table. I don't think the reason Tottenham, Brentford and Fulham have scored more than us is because they have better GKs that help than dominate games better. Do you? They do however have their Kane, Ivan Toney and Mitrovic who have scored a helluva lot more goals than Weghorst, Ronaldo and Martial have done.
There isn't 1 player that will magically turn us into a team dominating and controlling games. There are however players that will immediately improve our goalscoring and turn us into a much better team when we are playing Weghorst up front and it's like playing with 10 men.
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How on earth do you manage to jump in two-footed on his post, calling it factually wrong, and follow up with this
.Valdes was great with his feet and the best sweeper-keeper in the world when he was starting for Pep. One of the biggest reasons they could defend on the halfway line even with Pique and Mascherano in defence.
How on earth do you manage to jump in two-footed on his post, calling it factually wrong, and follow up with this
Valdes was great with his feet and the best sweeper-keeper in the world when he was starting for Pep. One of the biggest reasons they could defend on the halfway line even with Pique and Mascherano in defence.
Because I watched him play for us with my own photoreceptors. I thought it was clear in the post.
The reason they could rely on Pique and Mascherano was because of how they played as a team and the fact that no one could get through their attack and midfield. You think a Pique, Mascherano, Valdes backline would survive and dominate in a non-Pep team in the EPL? Or that if you put 2 different CBs and GK in that team, that we wouldn't get spanked again in the 2011 CL final? Really?
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Yeah, because having a keeper, like we have at the minute, lumping almost every ball 50 yards aimlessly down field and fighting for second balls will allow you to control possession.
Brentford have scored 3 more goals and Fulham have scored 2 more. Spurs have Kane, so there's your proof???
Having a keeper who does everything DDG can't or just won't do, will do a lot more for the overall structure and shape of the team than just sticking Kane or Oshimen up top.
Brighton have scored 16 more goals and MacAllister is their top scorer with 10. There's proof that a team who focus on building with the keeper involved can outscore opponents by building sustained periods of pressure that allows other players get into scoring areas to contribute, rather than focusing purely on a goal getter. They even changed their keeper to make this style work better.
So, your hard factual no, isn't really factual or hard.
Striker first, CM second, GK third
Hopefully we have the budget for all three with sales
Hopefully we have the budget for all three with sales
He literally played 100 minutes of football for us, buddy
. Having just come off a serious injury, no less.Good thing I never said either of these things, but go on making up your own arguments to win!
For what it's worth, I would absolutely, one hundred percent love to replay that 2011 final and swap Valdes-Mascherano-Pique for our 2023 vintage of De Gea-Varane-Martinez. Just so I can enjoy watching Barca try to play their brand of possession with DDG in goal.
see the problem you are making though is over-valuating the effect of the gk for brighton. It is their whole collective identity on having players who are confident and willing with the ball under pressure. It was something as well i could see watching ederson a couple of games ago. He was playing so many short simple passes. It wasnt some collection of amazing line splitting balls being sprayed all over the field. Instead he plays simple passes to players who are fine receiving it under pressure, as multiple people move to give options and continue moving the ball.
Here we haver players receiving the ball who are not remotely suited for that. Our best passers are prob martinez and maybe shaw on the backline under pressure. Midfield doesnt have really much in that way either. Case not really known as a passer, erisken is very lightweight, and the less said about mcfred the better.
But if you've watched Ederson over the last six years you'll know this is exactly where he's the best goalkeeper in the world (probably the only thing he's elite at, since he's a pretty average shot-stopper and poor at one-on-ones). Teams can't effectively press City high because they know he can ping a hard, flat pass out to either flank and bypass them entirely.
It's fair to say our defenders and midfielders aren't nearly as comfortable as theirs at receiving the ball under pressure. But even if they were all peak Beckenbauer, De Gea in goal would mean we're stuck hoofing it all game long and fighting for scraps.
I don't even agree with Oranges that a keeper would come first in this hypothetical scenario where we have to pick between GK and ST - because I think Weghorst is even worse than DDG. But the point is that we can very easily upgrade on De Gea without needing to spend the sort of money that would stop us getting a striker. And we absolutely need to upgrade on him ASAP to be able to play the kind of football that made everyone want Ten Hag here in the first place.
and what keeper is going to look good passing to players like AWB or fred or mctominay or maguire under pressure? You cant just buy a keeper and expect magic.
Striker, obviously. We're allowed to have opinions, but it's fecking bizarre to be picking GK.
DDG can still do a job 70% of the time, scoring (enough) goals has been almost a decade long issue at this point.
DDG can still do a job 70% of the time, scoring (enough) goals has been almost a decade long issue at this point.
I don't understand this repeated insistence on distorting what other posters are saying, but I'll bite.
Almost none of those players you named are in our strongest XI right now (Wan-Bissaka is the only arguable one) . De Gea is. Swap him for Ederson (hell, forget Ederson, swap him for Raya or Emi Martinez or Ramsdale or even Sanchez, who can't get into the Brighton side anymore - over half the starting keepers in the league, tbh) and we improve massively. Might as well be magic, huh?
Anyone not saying striker ?
Our best midfielder is a 30 year old defensive midfielder and the only one who can pick a pass is Eriksen but Sanchez is going to come in and improve our build up and make Wout actually finish chances. If you repeat something enough times it has to be true right.