lsd
The Oracle
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- Jun 5, 2016
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Weirdly enough the exact same people who keep saying Ten Hag needs more time were the ones yelling for Ole to be sacked despite the fact he performed far better than Ten Hag
Weirdly enough the exact same people who keep saying Ten Hag needs more time were the ones yelling for Ole to be sacked despite the fact he performed far better than Ten Hag
As I said, my issue is with the pro-Ole agenda driven posters, not the man himself. And yeah, that sesson looks like progress if it's built upon. Not if everything comes crashing down the following season. When I analyse his tenure holistically, the only real "success" was that 2nd place/EL Final season. Success is a stretch given what came the next season. Barring the initial interim bounce, the rest was all pretty meh, and sometimes downright awful.
Why don't you take any exception with me also saying that LVG, Jose and ETH all done well at one point, but ultimately they were failures? I think this way about every single one of them. If this thread had Jose in the title, I would be just as vocal.
I totally agree success is a stretch. I would never deem a trophyless manager a success at United.
The main thrust of this thread is about Ole, so that’s why I’m not fussed about delving into your takes on the others, and I didn’t take issue with you switching from a stance of Ole doing well to ultimately failing, but for saying he was "fecking shite". I don’t find the terms synonymous. Feel free to call that nit-picking, but again that’s the kind of language that entrenches people, and doesn’t come across as fair and nuanced, as you’re portraying yourself to be.
If you’re really interested, I’d say that’s harsh on anybody but EtH, who’s breaking records and making me feel less hopeful about United than any other manager post-Fergie. LvG was harshly done by, though ultimately I was glad to be rid of him because watching United under him made me feel sleepy. Mourinho was very toxic towards the end, talking shit about the club and it having a losing tradition in order to protect his ego, and tossing players under the bus. Ole obviously completely lost the squad and had to go.
Ole, sure why not? At this point I'd give it to Peppa Pig until the end of the season rather than keep Erik for another game.
Weirdly enough the exact same people who keep saying Ten Hag needs more time were the ones yelling for Ole to be sacked despite the fact he performed far better than Ten Hag
You see, that's the thing, I'll resort to rhetoric such as "fecking shite" when the pro-Ole propagandists turn up. It irks me, but it is what it is. I didn't actually change my stance on him. I wasn't really a fan until the 2nd place/EL Final season. He signed a new contract pretty soon after and I was pretty apathetic about it (go check out my posts in the thread if that floats your boat).
If you cling to one or two posts in isolation, you can paint a story. But if you look at my posts throughout the 2nd place season, it'll paint a clearer picture. I was lukewarm at best towards him, but thought feck it, he's just signed a new deal and got 2nd place so I might as well look for the positives. I've done it with every post-Fergie manager barring Moyes.
You might think I'm harsh on other managers but I'm really not. My issue is, and always will be the fanbois of every single ex-manager. The reason being is that they lower the standards so much just to defend their man. Again, it's just a bug bear of mine. As I've said, Ole isn't the issue and he never has been. It's the extremists who go to any length to big up their favourites tenure. Ole's spell, like the others, when judged holistically, isn't favourable. I grew up on success, and what we've seen since the great man retired is an utter shambles in comparison.
No one said it was success but to call it a disaster, good lord.
I was just pointing out that it was rewriting history to say the mood wasn't positive at the end of 20-21. Even his biggest detractors had changed their minds.What’s wrong with it? Everyone had that mood then. The project was abandoned due to the return of Ronaldo. The clowns decided to sack Ole rather than giving him the rest of the season to find a way. Our new ETH project is going to end extremely ugly soon.
I feel a lot of the animosity was brought on because there were some seriously condescending Ole fans on here who provoked extreme reactions. He obviously wasn't clueless, but everything he done was very basic. In hindsight, he should have left after the 2nd place/EL Final season.
And yes, that subjective preference still provokes a-lot of debate. But that's because some love to have their preference as the correct answer.
Apathetic?You see, that's the thing, I'll resort to rhetoric such as "fecking shite" when the pro-Ole propagandists turn up. It irks me, but it is what it is. I didn't actually change my stance on him. I wasn't really a fan until the 2nd place/EL Final season. He signed a new contract pretty soon after and I was pretty apathetic about it (go check out my posts in the thread if that floats your boat).
If you cling to one or two posts in isolation, you can paint a story. But if you look at my posts throughout the 2nd place season, it'll paint a clearer picture. I was lukewarm at best towards him, but thought feck it, he's just signed a new deal and got 2nd place so I might as well look for the positives. I've done it with every post-Fergie manager barring Moyes.
You might think I'm harsh on other managers but I'm really not. My issue is, and always will be the fanbois of every single ex-manager. The reason being is that they lower the standards so much just to defend their man. Again, it's just a bug bear of mine. As I've said, Ole isn't the issue and he never has been. It's the extremists who go to any length to big up their favourites tenure. Ole's spell, like the others, when judged holistically, isn't favourable. I grew up on success, and what we've seen since the great man retired is an utter shambles in comparison.
To be honest, I'm sold on him getting a new contract. I doubted some of this 'slow progress' stuff as fluff - but now I can see what people meant, and fair play to those people that could see what I couldn't!
This season, I really feel like we have made good, steady progress overall. I did have my doubts at times, but generally I was pretty happy. He achieved all of the 'progress goals' that I wanted to see and I'm sold on his project. It'll take time, and while I can genuinely see a title push next season, I certainly don't 'expect' us to win it. I'm loving life under Ole just now and a cup win would be fantastic - I mean, just seeing him lift a cup as our manager would be such a nice moment. I would hate if we ended up with more managerial upheaval next season, and I really want him to succeed here.
I had massive doubts especially circa Sept to Dec 2019. But since around Jan 2020, up until maybe early this year, I've been happy but never fully convinved by him, to be completely honest. Our run post-COVID last season was amazing, but the football felt very 'gung ho' and not sustainable. Since then, we play as a far more solid unit while still getting the best out of Bruno. His signings overall, have been good and hopefully we see some more youth integrated into squad roles next season. Things are going well and yeah, he's rather good at this managerial lark!
Apathetic?
I don't really see the big issue with him singing a new deal tbh. Going into next season with a year left on his contract wasn't going to benefit anybody. At least this brings more stability and shows he clearly has the support and backing of the Board/players.
Him singing a new deal isn't going to change his objectives and he'll still get the sack if he massively underachieves. Progression and improvements will be expected this coming season.
Why didn’t you get worked up about anti-Ole propagandists then?
Nah I nailed it.Quoting a post I literally quoted myself isn't the gotcha you think it is though you're utterly obsessed with trying to nail me with a gotcha, and have failed miserably many times.
Literally from the thread the day he signed his new deal. Yes, I look chuffed don't I. I've admitted I was wrong about him, like I was with all the others. Maybe I'm too overly positive and get caught up in the moment, I dunno.
Nah I nailed it.
My view is different. There were a fair few people on here against him being appointed permanently from the beginning, and they became more and more outlandishly critical of him. Lots of claims that Ole was clueless, the coaches were clueless, the team was great and the players were saving him with “moments of brilliance”. “No style of play” and “no tactics”, Poch is great etc. hence the reaction from the other side of the fence.
As with all things though, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
It's not going to happen anyway. They won't do anything for the sake of 4 games.Why are we going round and round debating how good or not OGS is as a manager?
This is purely about NOT having EtH in the dugout for the cup final, because his dogmatic, crazy philosophy and tactics are going to get us humiliated.
The reason I suggested OGS hasn't got anything to do with his ability as a manager, it's solely based on the fact that the cup final is in three weeks and there are basically no other options.
Most are in jobs. The prospective options that are not in jobs (Zidane, Potter etc...) likely wouldn't take a job for three weeks and even if they did, they'd be completely new to the club, to the staff, to the players, to Carrington, to Old Trafford etc...its not viable.
So then we're basically left with thinking 'who knows the club, knows the squad, would do the club a favour etc...' and you're really ONLY left with OGS.
Again, it's really a ceremonial 'good feelings' based role. Come in, abandon EtHs crazy, stupid football, give the players a bit of a lift and as an added bonus, he does have a decent record against Pep - so he's not going to have to come in and reinvent the wheel, just stick to the low-block, 4-4-2 with split-forwards.
To be clear, it's for three weeks, and three weeks only - simply to stop EtH dragging us through the mud any further.
It's not going to happen anyway. They won't do anything for the sake of 4 games.
I don't get worked up with anti-any ex-manager propagandists, that's the whole point? I get worked up with their fanbois.
I think it's gone past the point where any result is a shock. 5-0 to Arsenal wouldn't be any worse than other recent performances. If they didn't act then, why now.Possibly not but then, what if we get beaten 5-0 (or worse) at the weekend by Arsenal?
Maybe INEOS will feel they absolutely have to act.
I'd say its improbable they will make a change, but not entirely impossible.
I know, that’s why I asked
You only get worked up over propagandists who are pro, and not the anti side. I would have thought both would be annoying for someone who purports to value objectively. Also, I think it makes more sense for a United fan to be reflexively supportive of Ole, a club legend, rather than shouting about him being a cnut who doesn’t give a shit about the club. Even if fanbois who won’t concede a single point are annoying.
Anyway, I’m done probing this. It’s all done and dusted anyway.
Possibly not but then, what if we get beaten 5-0 (or worse) at the weekend by Arsenal?
Maybe INEOS will feel they absolutely have to act.
I'd say its improbable they will make a change, but not entirely impossible.
Because, I don't see why people bother defending any of our ex-managers. And, usually when they do, it's agenda driven and they want to hammer home that [insert name here] definitely was the best post-Fergie manager. That's what irks me.
Why is there a need to proclaim who was the best? To me, the word best is a massive stretch and it's actually who was the least worst. The debates usually enter nonsical territory whereby anything any other ex-manager done means feck all, because [insert name here] was clearly the best. It's been done to death and there'll never be a general consensus.
boiii , you are rightI'm guessing you absolutely love the idea tbh
All this implies that you see the need to slander a club legend and that it doesn’t irk you (not saying that’s the case). I never asked "why does it bother you that people are getting worked up defending Ole and going overboard?", in fact I expressed agreement. You’re answering questions I didn’t ask and skating right past the one I did ask.
If people call him a cnut etc. then yeah, I would take exception. But no, I don't really care if people think his tenure was shite.
People were regularly using that kind of language, and questioning his commitment. I don’t really recall you piping up about that.
Conversely people were abused to high heavens for having the sheer audacity to say that he isn't good enough. I remember all the hater, plastic cnut, clueless rhetoric, not to mention the piss taking about patterns of play etc. It is what it is mate.
I accept this. Its like two bald men fighting over a comb. I just cannot literally believe people could even consider OGS coming back to manage this club. Dont forget, we were very obviously the worst coached team in the league under Ole, just as we are with ETH.Ole is not good enough but even he could comfortably achieve a positive goal difference in the league.
The bald dutch fraud in charge now has comfortably got to be one of the worst.
Disaster is probably too big a word.
But, those were still wasted seasons, that ended up with no trophies, wasted money and a problem squad that was not set up to win things with someone else either.
But then theyPersonally, I would class every single post-Fergie manager as a disaster.
Every one of their tenures has ended abysmally (except for LvG, I guess) and they've all been backed but delivered nothing of note. Then when they're sacked, all the talk is about how we will shift the shower of shite that they bought, and we are back into a perpetual 'rebuild' where we might fluke a 2nd or 3rd place finish, before the house of sand inevitably comes crashing down yet again. Meanwhile, plenty of fans shamelessly laud these managers and their 'achievements'.
Is it? We didn't win stuff for three years under SAF.Winning nothing in 3 years is a disaster at a club like Manchester United. Dress it up however you want. some fans standards are really on the floor.