Give it Ole until the end of the season...

Well, maybe, I don't know...and by all means, if you find someone recommending that, by all means attack that argument.

My issue is with folks attacking an argument that hasn't been made (by me) - I suppose that's what happens on Internet forums to be fair...lots of sub-plots / debates unfolding within a debate...initial ideas and points gets lost and it descends into chaos

I think it's pretty obvious that's exactly what would happen. There's a cohort on here absolutely chomping at the bit to see him back here.

Overall, I understand your logic. But I also think it would look seriously incompetent on INEOS part. I also think the circumstances he would be coming into are totally different to the post-Jose era.
 
If you only started supporting United in the past 10 years, sure. Describing that as "good" in any other sense is a massive stretch. Personally, I found it good the season we won things under Jose.

Well, that’s why I used the word relative
 
Unbelievable that some people still believe this guy was anything more than a total fraud of a manager. Legend of a player of course.
 
Still a massive stretch. We won absolutely nothing that season and in real-time, plenty could see that we had massive issues.

We did. It was fun at times though. Which is more than I would say about LVG or Mourinho. Or Rangnick for that matter.

Not that I would have him back, mind. What’s done is done.
 
We did. It was fun at times though. Which is more than I would say about LVG or Mourinho. Or Rangnick for that matter.

Not that I would have him back, mind. What’s done is done.

Fun? See I agree with that. His spell was certainly the most enjoyable in some aspects. He definitely helped to get us all over the post-Jose blues.

My issue is the people who try to actually claim his spell was successful. It wasn't. That season was red flag central which is why a large contingent felt we would crash and burn the following season, rather than kick on.
 
It is what it is. All our post-Fergie managers have been utter shite. The structure has also been shite. The next man after ETH may not work out but it doesn't mean ETH should stay.

They've all been shite. Right. We just need the right manager and all the other problems will go away. We've heard that clubs need to be well run to succeed, but not us, we just need a non shite manager.

Got it.

Maybe McTominay just needs coaching to be able to move into space. AWB's passing will be mint with the right manager. Maguire won't dither on the ball and gain a yard of pace, he just needs the right encouragement. Varane will be tough enough to last 3 consecutive games with the right instructions. Maybe even Antony will try to beat a player if he's told to. Unless of course the next manager actually likes our mismatch of a squad? Perhaps he'll actually prefer playing a different system and style every week to accomodate those who are actually fit?

Every season we need to ship out 7 or 8 players who either aren't good enough or who can't play together. We get rid of a few and bring in a few, who, if they don't succeed, have to play every week anyway because we have no decent alternatives. It's a broken squad and has been for many years now. But yeah, shite managers... we just need to find the right guy, he'll fix it in under 3 years! (if not he's shite too)

For the record, I was never that keen on ETH. But he had a surprisingly good 1st season, all things considered. And an unsurpsingly shit 2nd season, all things considered. But yeah, hitting reset will hopefully solve it this time.
 
They've all been shite. Right. We just need the right manager and all the other problems will go away.

Nope. We need to be run like a proper football club. But, we've also appointed poor managers. As I said, the next man may not work out, if that's the case, so be it.
 
Fun? See I agree with that. His spell was certainly the most enjoyable in some aspects. He definitely helped to get us all over the post-Jose blues.

My issue is the people who try to actually claim his spell was successful. It wasn't. That season was red flag central which is why a large contingent felt we would crash and burn the following season, rather than kick on.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole...-22-discussion.446090/page-1406#post-27174886
"We'll be heading for a title challenge next season. Ole has improved so much as a manager since coming in and he's moulded a very good team, with a strong squad. With some shrewd acquisitions and some promotions from the youth teams, we'll be a damn good force next season.

All that on top of a solid second place finish and probable EL win and it's all very exciting."
 
As much as I wouldn't want Ole back, I'm hard pressed to see how anyone would be worse than Ten Hag.
 
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole-gunnar-solskjær-2021-22-discussion.446090/page-1406#post-27174886
"We'll be heading for a title challenge next season. Ole has improved so much as a manager since coming in and he's moulded a very good team, with a strong squad. With some shrewd acquisitions and some promotions from the youth teams, we'll be a damn good force next season.

All that on top of a solid second place finish and probable EL win and it's all very exciting."

I'm not gonna lie, I was setting the standards with some of my posts so that I could fight off the usual cop outs come the next season. Feel free to look at my posts that season and you'll see I had a tonne of concerns. I guess I also wanted to play nice with you lot too.

It was a passable season, nothing more. Much like ETH last sesson.
 
What the club do next season is an entirely different argument. This is solely about whether we should look at an alternative option for the cup final or whether we should let EtH see out the final four games.

My own view is that we have no chance at all of winning the FA Cup with EtH in charge and a good chance of being embarrassed on a global scale.

This is largely due to his complete unwillingness to do what is best for the group of players he has. It should be impossible for United to lose 4-0 to Palace or Brentford, or 3-0 at home to Bournemouth. If Portsmouth played Palace or Brentford tomorrow I'd be shocked if they lost 4-0. Those results are only possible because we're being totally and utterly exposed and setup to fail by a dogmatic coach who won't change.

Therefore it's my conclusion we need to bring in an interim...but who would be available, willing to do it and familiar enough with the club to come in immediately and prepare us for a final?

I can only think OGS or Jose Mourinho. Personally I think OGS is more likely to do it than Jose and also a better fit because he's not publicly torn the players apart.

If you think you'd rather leave EtH in charge then fine, that's a very valid opinion. However, don't misrepresent or misinterpret the OP, in the sense that not one single person here is calling for OGS to return beyond the FA Cup final

I don't think peak Sir Alex would stand much of a chance against that ridiculous city squad, rested and cruising as they will be, with the players available to ETH right now. Our team last night was pitiful. That's genuinely a bottom half team. And if we played Casemiro in that position, in that form for a year, we'd be relegated for sure.

Yes I think we should finally keep a manager until the squad is rebuilt for him. That means not keeping players who don't suit him just to 'maintain their value', or whatever the glazernomics reason has been. There's no point hiring a system manager then expecting him to play players who so clearly don't suit his system. We might have done okay this year if we hadn't been riddled with injuries. But that was always likely to happen when he doesn't like half of the players so is reluctant to rotate.

Still, we do hopefully now have the upper management capable of building a cohesive squad with a style in mind. Whether that is with ETH or not I don't really mind. I trust that at last, we have some people with a clue above the manager, and we won't be setting up the manager, whoever it is next year, with an almost impossible task. It just baffles me that so many of our fans can't see that that is what ETH has had this year. He isn't shite, he's been dealt a terrible hand and not dealt with it particularly well. Maybe he is the right guy, if he had the right squad. He's certainly not the right guy, or at the very least, he would have to adapt if he's going to continue with such a disjointed squad. A proper clearout is required though, whoever is the manager next year. As it has been for at least 5 years now.
 
I'm not gonna lie, I was setting the standards with some of my posts so that I could fight off the usual cop outs come the next season. Feel free to look at my posts that season and you'll see I had a tonne of concerns. I guess I also wanted to play nice with you lot too.

It was a passable season, nothing more. Much like ETH last sesson.
It wasn't a large contingent that we're expecting us to 'crash and burn' the next season though, that's just re-writing history. By the end of that season most were content (including yourself) or had gone very quiet from their pre 2020 views.

When he didn't kick on he got deservedly sacked. Although we've somehow got far worse now.
 
And the thing is @Leftback99, you seem to think I was some anti-Ole kind. Actually, I was very fair and thought we might do well after he signed Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane that summer. He done a passable job at best, and some of his tenure was fun. I even got swept up in some of the nonsense in here at one point. In fact, I had zero issues with his new contract and said fair is fair after a passable season.

The fact is, in the cold hard light of day, his tenure was fun at times, but not remotely successful. I've always said I enjoyed his spell the best, because he gave some hope, albeit false hope. With Jose, it was all pretty dour despite some minor success.

My issue was never with Ole, as I love the bloke. It has, and always will be, with his fanbois on here. You lot love to paint a picture of some amazing tenure where he was so much better than every post-Fergie manager. I also enjoyed ETH's first season and thought we might build on it. In hindsight, it was also littered with red flags.
 
It wasn't a large contingent that we're expecting us to 'crash and burn' the next season though, that's just re-writing history. By the end of that season most were content (including yourself) or had gone very quiet from their pre 2020 views.

When he didn't kick on he got deservedly sacked. Although we've somehow got far worse now.

Well it was a large contingent. Plenty couldn't stand the bloke as manager. Never said I was one but you know how divisive he was.
 
And the thing is @Leftback99, you seem to think I was some anti-Ole kind. Actually, I was very fair and thought we might do well after he signed Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane that summer. He done a passable job at best, and some of his tenure was fun. I even got swept up in some of the nonsense in here at one point. In fact, I had zero issues with his new contract and said fair is fair after a passable season.

The fact is, in the cold hard light of day, his tenure was fun at times, but not remotely successful. I've always said I enjoyed his spell the best, because he gave some hope, albeit false hope. With Jose, it was all pretty dour despite some minor success.

My issue was never with Ole, as I love the bloke. It has, and always will be, with his fanbois on here. You lot love to paint a picture of some amazing tenure where he was so much better than every post-Fergie manager. I also enjoyed ETH's first season and thought we might build on it. In hindsight, it was also littered with red flags.
Like I've said numerous times quote any post where I make him out to be anything special, or that I thought he'd win us the PL. It's a figment of your imagination.

I'm pretty certain you'll find me saying Mourinho was the best.
 
Like I've said numerous times quote any post where I make him out to be anything special, or that I thought he'd win us the PL. It's a figment of your imagination.

I'm pretty certain you'll find me saying Mourinho was the best.

Well, constantly fighting the good Ole fight sure as hell looks as though you think he done a good job.

BTW, it's not even close. Jose did do the best job. But, for me, I have more fond memories of Ole's spell.

The difference between you and me is that I have zero issues with people labelling all our post-Fergie managers as failures, whereas you take exception with Ole being included. I've been fair to every single post-Fergie manager as I have zero agendas.
 
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Well it was a large contingent. Plenty couldn't stand the bloke as manager. Never said I was one but you know how divisive he was.
You just changed you're mind on him.

At worse pre 21-22 there was a few left saying we'd never win anything under him, a lot of anger after the final. There wasn't a 'large contingent' predicting we would 'crash and burn' in 22-23.

Some of us were saying not buying a DM that summer instead of Ronaldo was a huge mistake however.
 
Well, constantly fighting the good Ole fight sure as hell looks as though you think he done a good job.

BTW, it's not even close. Jose did do the best job. But, for me, I have more fond memories of Ole's spell.

The difference between you and me is that I have zero issues with people labelling all out post-Fergie manager as failures, you take exception with Ole being included. I've been fair to every single post-Fergie manager as I have zero agendas.
Again, imagination.
 
If it's between him or ETH I'd be happy to see him back for a few games. It's not like whoever comes in at this stage is going to have an impact on coaching, it's all about the vibes which Ole is a specialist in. Obviously he failed here in the end, but to be fair he's had some good tactical performances against Pep and could give a short-term boost to morale.
 
You just changed you're mind on him.

At worse pre 21-22 there was a few left saying we'd never win anything under him, a lot of anger after the final. There wasn't a 'large contingent' predicting we would 'crash and burn' in 22-23.

Some of us were saying not buying a DM that summer instead of Ronaldo was a huge mistake however.

I didn't change my mind on anything mate. You have it in your head that I was some anti-Ole. However, if you look at the vast majority of my posts on the matter, you'll see my issue was with certain posters. Nah sorry, as I said a large contingent were desperately unhappy with his new contract and didn't see us going anywhere under him.

As I'm a fairly rational kind, I posted the below before the 21/22 season. His 20/21 season at the time seemed like some kind of progress. But, in hindsight, it wasn't. I was wrong, I hold my hands up. When I objectively view his tenure, barring the 20/21 season, the rest was meh. I also felt we were going places under ETH last season. But again, with hindsight it was littered with red flags. When he leaves, knowing what I know now, I won't be viewing his tenure as anything other than a disaster. If Ole had of just left after the 20/21 season, I guess I would view his tenure slightly more favourably.

The thing you don't seem to get is that in hindsight, I think all post-Fergie managers were fecking shite when we look back retrospectively. I don't see the obsession with you, and others, having to vehemently defend Ole's honour. This would all be so much easier for you if I was some rampant anti-Ole nutter but that wasn't the case, unfortunately. I just don't have to pretend that in hindsight, his spell was so much better than it was.

Some good points here. I suppose though, it is worth adding that we've had some horrible runs under him, and he's obviously made mistakes. Putting the OTT hyperbole aside - that he's either done a shit job or a great one - I would say he's done a good job, no more, no less. He has done brilliantly in some areas and less so in others. What I do like about him, is that, he seems to be constantly learning and adapting to managing such a mammoth of a club. Considering who he managed before us, that's totally understandable.

I couldn't agree more with your second paragraph. I hold my hands up to being someone who took time to appreciate the job he had on his hands, with the squad that he inherited. It really was a mismatch from three different managerial eras. I'm mostly very pleased with his transfers, and I'm loving that he seems really invested with our youth signings too. This summer was just amazing, it really was. Signing Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo was different level stuff. Obviously plenty have concerns with the DM area, but if Ole neglected it for other areas, that's his decision. The truth is, he's been backed now and there will be big pressure to deliver this season. Any excuses - even the ones dressed up as fair concerns - won't fly anymore. The thing is, Ole is extremely diligent and he will know the stakes have obviously risen after our summer business.

I'm not overly fussed by Martial. I think Ole was more than willing to let him go this summer, and he'll likely only feature when needs must. It's a credit to Ole that he gives nothing away to the media regarding our players futures. Away from watchful eyes, I'm pretty sure he has let the likes of Martial and Lingard know that they are surplus to requirements. It's odd that people criticise him for saying positive things about perceived 'deadwood players' in the media. I mean, it's obviously a facade and infinitely better than Jose's toxic nonsense.

I'm also absolutely buzzing for the season ahead, and the signing of Ronaldo has added extra excitement! I honestly think we have the squad to challenge this season. However, he's here 3.5 years at the end of the season and anything less than a good title challenge (within 7 to 8 points of the leaders), and a QF CL run, with an honourable exit, isn't good enough imo. Of course there are plenty of variables to both scenarios which have to be anslysed on an ongoing basis. If we finish a distant 4th,for example, and get humiliated in the CL, then he has to go.

Giving him another summer to sign a DM, who would close a huge gap, isn't reality. I have no issue if we finish 8 points off the top, and people claim that signing a top DM would get us closer to the title, as that's logical. However, if we're 15 odd points off, a DM isn't going to suddenly have us in contention. That's when we have to really question the coaching. All in all though, I feel super positive that we'll meet most people's targets. The targets most rational posters have set, are are on par with the length of his tenure and money spent. Obviously the agenda posters will set the bar too high, or too low, depending on their stance. A domestic cup isn't an outright requirement obviously, but it would be nice to get that first trophy. I really wish we had of won the EL, just purely as a platform to build upon
 
Fair re boro thought that was him. Not sure how you came to rest of conclusion though, we had pretty easy draws generally.

We really didn't Ole had horrible cup draws.

In his time in charge we played 24 domestic cup ties. 18 of those were against premier league opposition that's 75%. 10 of those ties against PL sides were away from home.

For comparison under ETH its 19 domestic cup ties 13 against PL opposition thats just under 70% but crucially only 2 of those were away. Relegation threatened Nottingham forest both times.

Oles away draws were Arsenal/Chelseax2/wolves X2/Brighton/City/Leicester/Everton/Norwich.

Pretty brutal.
 
I didn't change my mind on anything mate. You have it in your head that I was some anti-Ole. However, if you look at the vast majority of my posts on the matter, you'll see my issue was with certain posters. Nah sorry, as I said a large contingent were desperately unhappy with his new contract and didn't see us going anywhere under him.

As I'm a fairly rational kind, I posted the below before the 21/22 season. His 20/21 season at the time seemed like some kind of progress. But, in hindsight, it wasn't. I was wrong, I hold my hands up. When I objectively view his tenure, barring the 20/21 season, the rest was meh. I also felt we were going places under ETH last season. But again, with hindsight it was littered with red flags. When he leaves, knowing what I know now, I won't be viewing his tenure as anything other than a disaster. If Ole had of just left after the 20/21 season, I guess I would view his tenure slightly more favourably.

The thing you don't seem to get is that in hindsight, I think all post-Fergie managers were fecking shite when we look back retrospectively. I don't see the obsession with you, and others, having to vehemently defend Ole's honour. This would all be so much easier for you if I was some rampant anti-Ole nutter but that wasn't the case, unfortunately. I just don't have to pretend that in hindsight, his spell was so much better than it was.
You literally said in that quoted post that he's done a 'good job' . There's no need to re-write history as at the time that's what it was relative to expectation.

I don't know why he winds you up so much that you can't help posting whenever he is mentioned. As soon as I saw this thread I knew you'd be heavily involved with an opposite viewpoint.
 
Fun? See I agree with that. His spell was certainly the most enjoyable in some aspects. He definitely helped to get us all over the post-Jose blues.

My issue is the people who try to actually claim his spell was successful. It wasn't. That season was red flag central which is why a large contingent felt we would crash and burn the following season, rather than kick on.

I don’t think anyone would seriously state it was successful. It wasn’t the tactical disaster some people claim either. There’s too many extreme views feeding off each other, but that’s probably the case with most of our managers and players.
 
What was his record against City again? I remember a few good wins but did he have a winning record?
4-1-4. So a tie. Which is probably the best record anyone has (or maybe Ancelotti has better, don't know).
 
Last time Ole was a brilliant interim choice (and they should have let him be just that).

This time - he has history. He's a failed manager (a very failed manager, you could say - as in: proven to be out of his depth, ultimately) coming back to take charge of a group of players which include many he worked with before.

Very different scenario. I'm not sure at all that he'd be able to lift spirits and motivate the players.
Agree. If we would have replaced Ole after his interim spell, I think it might have been an option getting him as interim when we need an interim. But not after appointing him permanently and him completely failing.
 
I don’t think anyone would seriously state it was successful. It wasn’t the tactical disaster some people claim either. There’s too many extreme views feeding off each other, but that’s probably the case with most of our managers and players.

It was ok. But Jose was also ok, and ETH was also ok last season. It's the manner how all of their spells ended that will make people class them as fairly shite.

Ultimately, if you spend 3 seasons at a club, spend a shit tonne of money and leave us in the state Ole left us - good/ok rightfully become "shite" etc. To keep it simple, it's best to just admit all our post-Fergie managers were failures.
 
Failure means not winning the PL ultimately.

No, failure means spending a tonne of money and leaving the team in the state that Ole, Jose and ETH left it. That's failure. Suddenly things that once looked good or ok, look like abject failure.
 
You literally said in that quoted post that he's done a 'good job' . There's no need to re-write history as at the time that's what it was relative to expectation.

I don't know why he winds you up so much that you can't help posting whenever he is mentioned. As soon as I saw this thread I knew you'd be heavily involved with an opposite viewpoint.

Yeah, I also explained how a good job turns into a poor job when you spend a tonne of money and leave the team in utter shite. I also said ETH done a good job last season, LVG done a good job in his first season and Jose done a good job for a period of time. Logic would dictate that the longer you spend at a club and the more cash you spend, a good job can turn into a great one or a shite one. Unfortunately for us, it's always been the latter. I would never rewrite history, but after that history, there was more to the story.

He doesn’t wind me up mate. It's you lot that do that. The bloke is a legend and done his best as a manager here. Ultimately, he ended up leaving us in a mess after one promising season. I don't see your need to defend him so much. We'll never get one another bud ;)
 
We really didn't Ole had horrible cup draws.

In his time in charge we played 24 domestic cup ties. 18 of those were against premier league opposition that's 75%. 10 of those ties against PL sides were away from home.

For comparison under ETH its 19 domestic cup ties 13 against PL opposition thats just under 70% but crucially only 2 of those were away. Relegation threatened Nottingham forest both times.

Oles away draws were Arsenal/Chelseax2/wolves X2/Brighton/City/Leicester/Everton/Norwich.

Pretty brutal.
Come on man. We lost twice in the Europa to teams we would hope to beat at neutral venues. We would hope to beat Wolves (home or away), we would hope to beat that Leicester team, going out to Chelsea, Barca and City x 2 isn't that bad in isolation but when I present you with the full list, it's damning. There's a clear trend that he couldn't get teams over the line.

If we'd only gone out to clubs like City, Chelsea, Pool (Arsenal weren't good then) it still really wouldn't be acceptable if it's like 5 losses in a row without any wins. The fact that it's actually a mix of average to good teams is what makes it so bad.
 
It was ok. But Jose was also ok, and ETH was also ok last season. It's the manner how all of their spells ended that will make people class them as fairly shite.

Ultimately, if you spend 3 seasons at a club, spend a shit tonne of money and leave us in the state Ole left us - good/ok rightfully become "shite" etc. To keep it simple, it's best to just admit all our post-Fergie managers were failures.

They’ve all been failures yes. And preference is very much subjective.

The animosity against Ole by some was always a bit comical, though. He might have failed here, but he wasn’t clueless.
 
They’ve all been failures yes. And preference is very much subjective.

The animosity against Ole by some was always a bit comical, though. He might have failed here, but he wasn’t clueless.

I feel a lot of the animosity was brought on because there were some seriously condescending Ole fans on here who provoked extreme reactions. He obviously wasn't clueless, but everything he done was very basic. In hindsight, he should have left after the 2nd place/EL Final season.

And yes, that subjective preference still provokes a-lot of debate. But that's because some love to have their preference as the correct answer.
 
The first 3 you named are failures. How far have we fallen as a club to accept losing in finals as a success. Jesus Christ.

If a winning record against Pep is your greatest success you shouldn't be anywhere near the managerial position of Manchester United.
No one said it was success but to call it a disaster, good lord.
 
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole-gunnar-solskjær-2021-22-discussion.446090/page-1406#post-27174886
"We'll be heading for a title challenge next season. Ole has improved so much as a manager since coming in and he's moulded a very good team, with a strong squad. With some shrewd acquisitions and some promotions from the youth teams, we'll be a damn good force next season.

All that on top of a solid second place finish and probable EL win and it's all very exciting."

The hype ahead of the season was excellent. Strong signings, very good offseason, mood around the club was incredibe. Ronnie returning. It was genuinely enjoyable supporting the club.

Of course the season turned to absolute shambles, but the mood before the season started was "title challenge possible" at the very least
 
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole-gunnar-solskjær-2021-22-discussion.446090/page-1406#post-27174886
"We'll be heading for a title challenge next season. Ole has improved so much as a manager since coming in and he's moulded a very good team, with a strong squad. With some shrewd acquisitions and some promotions from the youth teams, we'll be a damn good force next season.

All that on top of a solid second place finish and probable EL win and it's all very exciting."
What’s wrong with it? Everyone had that mood then. The project was abandoned due to the return of Ronaldo. The clowns decided to sack Ole rather than giving him the rest of the season to find a way. Our new ETH project is going to end extremely ugly soon.
 
I feel a lot of the animosity was brought on because there were some seriously condescending Ole fans on here who provoked extreme reactions. He obviously wasn't clueless, but everything he done was very basic. In hindsight, he should have left after the 2nd place/EL Final season.

And yes, that subjective preference still provokes a-lot of debate. But that's because some love to have their preference as the correct answer.

That goes for both sides. He wasn’t a success but clearly the whole clueless PE teacher narrative was off the mark too, which along with incindiary language towards a bona fide club legend kindled some strong emotions.

A bit strange that you also change how you characterize 3 years of management based on the three last months. Signing Ronaldo was a huge mistake, and obviously changed the dynamic of the team in unfortunate ways.

But your narrative that there was a lot of people deeming him a "success" is an exaggeration. I think most of his defenders are of the same mind as you: that he was doing fairly well and giving us the most enjoyable stint post-Fergie. Trophies didn’t change the fact that watching United under LvG and Mourinho was quite boring.

I think you’re largely taking swings at straw men.
 
That goes for both sides. He wasn’t a success but clearly the whole clueless PE teacher narrative was off the mark too.

A bit strange that you also change how you characterize 3 years of management based on the three last months. Signing Ronaldo was a huge mistake, and obviously changed the dynamic of the team in unfortunate ways.

But your narrative that there was a lot of people deeming him a "success" is an exaggeration. I think most of his defenders are of the same mind as you: that he was doing fairly well and giving us the most enjoyable stint post-Fergie. Trophies didn’t change the fact that watching United under LvG and Mourinho was quite boring.

I think you’re largely taking swings at straw men.

As I said, my issue is with the pro-Ole agenda driven posters, not the man himself. And yeah, that sesson looks like progress if it's built upon. Not if everything comes crashing down the following season. When I analyse his tenure holistically, the only real "success" was that 2nd place/EL Final season. Success is a stretch given what came the next season. Barring the initial interim bounce, the rest was all pretty meh, and sometimes downright awful.

Why don't you take any exception with me also saying that LVG, Jose and ETH all done well at one point, but ultimately they were failures? I think this way about every single one of them. If this thread had Jose in the title, I would be just as vocal.