Giorgi Mamardashvili

dinostar77 said:
Yes he is. Much better shot stopper. But we are stuck with Onana while ETH is manager. Hope he doesn't go to Liverpool as Alison's long term replacement.
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You are so wrong, Onana is a better shot stopper than this guy, never mind Mamardashvili being 'much better'. Onana is a very good shot stopper, he just isn't flash at saves like DDG was, so he doesn't look great. He has really good shot stopping stats, and aside from a mistake here and there, he is actually very good.

But if ETH wanted a GK just for his shot stopping ability then he could have went for others rather than Onana, but Onana has great distribution, which is what ETH wants in his GK.

Onana had a save percentage of 74.6% last season, Mamardashvilli had a save percentage of 73.8%.

Onana faced 204 shots and and saved 152 in the league last season. Mamardashvili faced 146 shots and saved 107.

So not only did Onana face 58 more shots than Mamardashvili, but his save percentage was more. Bearing in mind, more shots against a GK normally leads to the percentage going down.

Onana saved more shots last season than Mamardashvili even came up against. 152 shots saved vs 146 shots faced.

But I guess the narrative of Onana being a bad shot stopper based on his first few months at the club has not gone away. He was brilliant from January onwards.
 
Onana just doesn’t give me confidence that the goal is secure. I don’t feel that he’s a goalkeeper going to win us points in matches where we are getting absolutely battered in the same way Schmeichel, vDS and DDG did.

People point to his distribution. Aside from short passes to his defenders what else has he been doing? Putting it long to nobody in particular.

Like Lindelof, I know that he’s got a good long pass in his locker but how often do we see it? Like Lindelof i feel that people are going to defend him with stats when that doesn’t tell the full picture
 
golden_blunder said:
Onana just doesn’t give me confidence that the goal is secure. I don’t feel that he’s a goalkeeper going to win us points in matches where we are getting absolutely battered in the same way Schmeichel, vDS and DDG did.

People point to his distribution. Aside from short passes to his defenders what else has he been doing? Putting it long to nobody in particular.

Like Lindelof, I know that he’s got a good long pass in his locker but how often do we see it? Like Lindelof i feel that people are going to defend him with stats when that doesn’t tell the full picture
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We should put Lindelof in goal. Both problems solved. You’re welcome :cool:
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
You are so wrong, Onana is a better shot stopper than this guy, never mind Mamardashvili being 'much better'. Onana is a very good shot stopper, he just isn't flash at saves like DDG was, so he doesn't look great. He has really good shot stopping stats, and aside from a mistake here and there, he is actually very good.

But if ETH wanted a GK just for his shot stopping ability then he could have went for others rather than Onana, but Onana has great distribution, which is what ETH wants in his GK.

Onana had a save percentage of 74.6% last season, Mamardashvilli had a save percentage of 73.8%.

Onana faced 204 shots and and saved 152 in the league last season. Mamardashvili faced 146 shots and saved 107.

So not only did Onana face 58 more shots than Mamardashvili, but his save percentage was more. Bearing in mind, more shots against a GK normally leads to the percentage going down.

Onana saved more shots last season than Mamardashvili even came up against. 152 shots saved vs 146 shots faced.

But I guess the narrative of Onana being a bad shot stopper based on his first few months at the club has not gone away. He was brilliant from January onwards.
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Maybe you should follow baseball instead of football, since all you seem to see is statistics and not actual games or reality.

Who cares about Onana's "save percentage" when it only took 4-5 shameful blunders he made at the Champions League last year to knock us out from Champions League. Onana's horrible mistakes were the exact difference between us advancing from the very easy group vs not.

In reality, we don't know if Onana is a better goal-keeper or not, because you cannot judge a keeper by their first season, but please also don't throw meaningless numbers in our face

We will know how good (or not) Onana is this year, especially given significant overhaul of our CBs this year, bringing De Ligt and Yoro, who can play high line with Licha
 
NewGlory said:
Maybe you should follow baseball instead of football, since all you seem to see is statistics and not actual games or reality.

Who cares about Onana's "save percentage" when it only took 4-5 shameful blunders he made at the Champions League last year to knock us out from Champions League. Onana's horrible mistakes were the exact difference between us advancing from the very easy group vs not.

In reality, we don't know if Onana is a better goal-keeper or not, because you cannot judge a keeper by their first season, but please also don't throw meaningless numbers in our face

We will know how good (or not) Onana is this year, especially given significant overhaul of our CBs this year, bringing De Ligt and Yoro, who can play high line with Licha
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Did you ignore my sentence about him having a poor first few months at the club, which included them CL games. Since January and having time to settle in, he has been very good,

Numbers are not meaningless and sure as hell aren't being thrown in peoples face, the fact is, a few mistakes aside, he is a very good shot stopper and his shot stopping stats prove that. Goalkeepers are judged mainly on clean sheets and shots saved, and he is very good at that.

Yes we will see how Onana does this year, with a much more steady back 4 that is not riddled by injuries, and that creates stability for the GK.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Did you ignore my sentence about him having a poor first few months at the club, which included them CL games. Since January and having time to settle in, he has been very good,

Numbers are not meaningless and sure as hell aren't being thrown in peoples face, the fact is, a few mistakes aside, he is a very good shot stopper and his shot stopping stats prove that. Goalkeepers are judged mainly on clean sheets and shots saved, and he is very good at that.

Yes we will see how Onana does this year, with a much more steady back 4 that is not riddled by injuries, and that creates stability for the GK.
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There are specific kinds of shots, low ones, that he seems to struggle with due to his physique. But we 100% agree that this second season is when Onana should be judged, not last one

I don't think we know how good Mamardashvili is, however. He hasn't even played in Premier League, yet so that comparision is as unfair as judging Onana by his first months here

Liverpool won't invest in Mamardashvili if he isn't excellent and certainly not if his ball playing/distribution is bad. We know Liverpool style and what they value
 
Allison must be leaving in 2025 then. I can't say I know much about Mamardashvili but I doubt he's at Allisons level.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
You are so wrong, Onana is a better shot stopper than this guy, never mind Mamardashvili being 'much better'. Onana is a very good shot stopper, he just isn't flash at saves like DDG was, so he doesn't look great. He has really good shot stopping stats, and aside from a mistake here and there, he is actually very good.

But if ETH wanted a GK just for his shot stopping ability then he could have went for others rather than Onana, but Onana has great distribution, which is what ETH wants in his GK.

Onana had a save percentage of 74.6% last season, Mamardashvilli had a save percentage of 73.8%.

Onana faced 204 shots and and saved 152 in the league last season. Mamardashvili faced 146 shots and saved 107.

So not only did Onana face 58 more shots than Mamardashvili, but his save percentage was more. Bearing in mind, more shots against a GK normally leads to the percentage going down.

Onana saved more shots last season than Mamardashvili even came up against. 152 shots saved vs 146 shots faced.

But I guess the narrative of Onana being a bad shot stopper based on his first few months at the club has not gone away. He was brilliant from January onwards.
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We all have different opinions, Onana doesn't fill me with confidence. Nor do I think he has what it takes to become a truly elite keeper.

I read alot of positive stuff about mamadashvalli and then watched all of his games in the euros. Yeah it was a small sample of games but he just looked so reassured and confident. At 23 you can see the potential to become a truly elite keeper. Onana at 28 doesn't have that.

Mike Maginon for France at the Euros looked like what I expect from top elite keeper. Again personally I don't think Onana is anywhere near that level not will he be. He's not a bad keeper, he's just not exceptional at any aspect of goalkeeping. For me, a Utd keepers number one overriding ability that has to be WC or close to it, is showstopping. Everything else is secondary.

But that's just my own opinion.
 
How is he with his feet?

I find it surprising that clubs like Chelsea and City (which could have gotten a pretty decent fee for Ederson from Saudi) wouldn't have been in for him if he was good enough in that area for their football.

Everything else about him as a keeper seems to check out.
 
If people really believe we will or should replace a top 2 ball-player keeper in the league, second only to Ederson, with someone who's average with their feet, just because he's a better shot stopper, then I don't know what to say.

Mamardashvili might go on and significantly improve that part of his game, but as things stand, Onana is much more valuable to a possession-based side. The Georgian is a long-term project, and I'll be very happy if Alisson leaves Liverpool and they replace him with this guy. Big downgrade for now, as I believe Alisson is the best goalkeeper in the world, overall.
 
This is the sort of thing that makes sense for a dominant team with a built out squad to do, bit baffling for Liverpool to do it, given their current situation. Reeks of trying to be too smart.
 
Now he's going to be a Liverpool player he's shit and never wanted him anyways, the Georgian Taibi
 
Powderfinger said:
How is he with his feet?

I find it surprising that clubs like Chelsea and City (which could have gotten a pretty decent fee for Ederson from Saudi) wouldn't have been in for him if he was good enough in that area for their football.

Everything else about him as a keeper seems to check out.
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Didn’t look good with the ball at the Euros. Obligatory “I want my ‘keeper to save the ball not play with it!!” response but it’s definitely a valid consideration for how most top teams play now.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Did you ignore my sentence about him having a poor first few months at the club, which included them CL games. Since January and having time to settle in, he has been very good,

Numbers are not meaningless and sure as hell aren't being thrown in peoples face, the fact is, a few mistakes aside, he is a very good shot stopper and his shot stopping stats prove that. Goalkeepers are judged mainly on clean sheets and shots saved, and he is very good at that.

Yes we will see how Onana does this year, with a much more steady back 4 that is not riddled by injuries, and that creates stability for the GK.
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Onana had plenty of bad games post January just not the high profile errors that he made at the beginning. Onana seems very solid on high shot saves and near the bar saves, anything bellow his waist and it's pretty much a goal. Anyone who clangs on that "since January he has been very good", has either not watched us play the entire second half of the season or has a very short memory.
 
Powderfinger said:
How is he with his feet?

I find it surprising that clubs like Chelsea and City (which could have gotten a pretty decent fee for Ederson from Saudi) wouldn't have been in for him if he was good enough in that area for their football.

Everything else about him as a keeper seems to check out.
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Was at the Valencia game the other day and didn't see it being that good.
 
Bit of a blow he is joining Liverpool. Onana has one more season to prove himself if not. Then I can see us moving for Diogo Costa who definitely has the makings of being World class keeper .
 
Rojofiam said:
If people really believe we will or should replace a top 2 ball-player keeper in the league, second only to Ederson, with someone who's average with their feet, just because he's a better shot stopper, then I don't know what to say.

Mamardashvili might go on and significantly improve that part of his game, but as things stand, Onana is much more valuable to a possession-based side. The Georgian is a long-term project, and I'll be very happy if Alisson leaves Liverpool and they replace him with this guy. Big downgrade for now, as I believe Alisson is the best goalkeeper in the world, overall.
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Think about that statement again baring in mind he’s a goalkeeper and his priority is keeping the ball out of the net
 
golden_blunder said:
Think about that statement again baring in mind he’s a goalkeeper and his priority is keeping the ball out of the net
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That's just one aspect of goalkeeping, and it's arguably not the priority anymore these days. Your goalkeeper not being able to provide himself to be a genuine passing option in the build-up also means you won't be able to play out of a high press as well, which leads to your team conceding more chances than you would with a technical keeper in goal. That's why Ederson and Raya are the number 1 keepers of the two best teams in England (and top 3-4 in the world), despite being average at shot-stopping.

Onana's performance at Anfield last season is a perfect example of what I mean. We were much more competent against Liverpool's high press and could deal with it much better than we ever managed to with DDG in goal.

Us getting Mamardashvili would basically take us back to where we were with De Gea regarding our GK situation, except that there would be hope that Mamardashvili will eventually improve with his feet. However, it's highly unlikely he could get anywhere near Onana's levels.
 
Rojofiam said:
That's just one aspect of goalkeeping, and it's arguably not the priority anymore these days. Your goalkeeper not being able to provide himself to be a genuine passing option in the build-up also means you won't be able to play out of a high press as well, which leads to your team conceding more chances than you would with a technical keeper in goal. That's why Ederson and Raya are the number 1 keepers of the two best teams in England (and top 3-4 in the world), despite being average at shot-stopping.

Onana's performance at Anfield last season is a perfect example of what I mean. We were much more competent against Liverpool's high press and could deal with it much better than we ever managed to with DDG in goal.

Us getting Mamardashvili would basically take us back to where we were with De Gea regarding our GK situation, except that there would be hope that Mamardashvili will eventually improve with his feet. However, it's highly unlikely he could get anywhere near Onana's levels.
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:lol: Keeping the ball out of your own goal, isn't a priority for a keeper.

Might as well play without one.
 
dinostar77 said:
:lol: Keeping the ball out of your own goal, isn't a priority for a keeper.

Might as well play without one.
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I've explained my reasons which are very valid. Keeping more possession will lead to less chances conceded. To be able to do that, a technical & ball-player goalkeeper is essential. There are many real life examples as well where the traditionally possession-based manager binned a good shot-stopper for someone who's good with their feet but not as good at saving shots.
 
Rojofiam said:
I've explained my reasons which are very valid. Keeping more possession will lead to less chances conceded. To be able to do that, a technical & ball-player goalkeeper is essential. There are many real life examples as well where the traditionally possession-based manager binned a good shot-stopper for someone who's good with their feet but not as good at saving shots.
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Putting ball playing above basic goalkeeping skills, I feel like you’re just trying to make excuses for Onana.

His ball playing is erratic. How many times per match goes he punt it down the pitch?
 
Rojofiam said:
If people really believe we will or should replace a top 2 ball-player keeper in the league, second only to Ederson, with someone who's average with their feet, just because he's a better shot stopper, then I don't know what to say.

Mamardashvili might go on and significantly improve that part of his game, but as things stand, Onana is much more valuable to a possession-based side. The Georgian is a long-term project, and I'll be very happy if Alisson leaves Liverpool and they replace him with this guy. Big downgrade for now, as I believe Alisson is the best goalkeeper in the world, overall.
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Is Onana really the second best ball playing keeper though? I don’t know if I’m reading this completely wrong but he looks a long, long way from it according to these stats.

https://fbref.com/en/players/e9c0c1b2/scout/365_m1/Andre-Onana-Scouting-Report

He punts the ball long more often than not. I think people confuse being really slow with the ball with being good on it sometimes.
 
Hard to get excited by a lad that won’t play for us for 1-2 seasons when there is other pressing needs in the squad and means the best GK I’ve personally seen play will be leaving.
 
I think he's better than Onana at straight goalkeeping. Shot stopping, taking crosses etc. Onana is better at joining outfield play with kicking and distribution

£30 million seems cheap for him compared to the prices other top keeper prospects have gone for. Valencia did get him cheap but I think another £10 million would have been reasonable
 
Liver_bird said:
Hard to get excited by a lad that won’t play for us for 1-2 seasons when there is other pressing needs in the squad and means the best GK I’ve personally seen play will be leaving.
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You should go watch some United Liverpool derbies from the 90s ;)
 
acnumber9 said:
Is Onana really the second best ball playing keeper though? I don’t know if I’m reading this completely wrong but he looks a long, long way from it according to these stats.

https://fbref.com/en/players/e9c0c1b2/scout/365_m1/Andre-Onana-Scouting-Report

He punts the ball long more often than not. I think people confuse being really slow with the ball with being good on it sometimes.
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I'd say he is. One of, if not the most press-resistant goalkeeper I've ever seen, and his passing shouldn't be judged on last season IMO. He played in a team that didn't care about possession and the underlying stats had United at 14th in xPts at the end of the season. In fact, I wouldn't judge any player based on last season, but Onana is one of the biggest ones where last season's numbers are just simply not the truth. He might be an average shot-stopper, but he's pretty much good-to-great in all other aspects of goalkeeping.

Also, just wanted to add that we don't know whether it's a tactical instruction or not when he hoofs it up the pitch. In ETH's first season we had several matches where De Gea was clearly instructed to go long as often as possible, since that was often the best way for us to bypass an efficient high press at that time. The Liverpool home game in August 2022 is a great example of what I've just described, but it wasn't the only one. Having Varane+AWB on the right side of the defense was really not ideal as they're both subpar with the ball and in the build-up IMO. Add De Gea to that in the first season and we only really had Martínez and Shaw who could pass forward, keep the ball in tight spaces, carry the ball in the case of Shaw, etc. Our build-up really suffered when we had AWB+Varane at RB+RCB in both of ETH's full seasons so far. However, now they've been replaced with better players.
 
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Damn I always hoped he would be available for us sometime in the future as an Onana replacement. Hopefully he can actually get some game time at Liverpool.
 
Rojofiam said:
I'd say he is. One of, if not the most press-resistant goalkeeper I've ever seen, and his passing shouldn't be judged on last season IMO. He played in a team that didn't care about possession and the underlying stats had United at 14th in xPts at the end of the season. In fact, I wouldn't judge any player based on last season, but Onana is one of the biggest ones where last season's numbers are just simply not the truth. He might be an average shot-stopper, but he's pretty much good-to-great in all other aspects of goalkeeping.

Also, just wanted to add that we don't know whether it's a tactical instruction or not when he hoofs it up the pitch. In ETH's first season we had several matches where De Gea was clearly instructed to go long as often as possible, since that was often the best way for us to bypass an efficient high press at that time. The Liverpool home game in August 2022 is a great example of what I've just described, but it wasn't the only one. Having Varane+AWB on the right side of the defense was really not ideal as they're both subpar with the ball and in the build-up IMO. Add De Gea to that in the first season and we only really had Martínez and Shaw who could pass forward, keep the ball in tight spaces, carry the ball in the case of Shaw, etc. Our build-up really suffered when we had AWB+Varane at RB+RCB in both of ETH's full seasons so far. However, now they've been replaced with better players.
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That’s not really borne out by the facts though. His passing has been pretty poor all told. I’m fairly sure it’s not a tactical instruction to give the ball away. If De Gea was told to go long it was to reduce risk of him giving it away in dangerous areas. Why buy Onana and tell him not to pass the ball well?
 
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