Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

[Anustart89]

For FF and stats, sure. In the real world, nope. It's about creating a clear scoring opportunity as a direct result of the handball. An 80 yards hoof is hardly the same thing as a cut-back to an open teammate in the box.

It is the same thing when the rules only say ‘creating a goalscoring opportunity’. The rules don’t specify whether it’s a through ball, a cross or a hoof. A hoof that beats an entire team and creates a goalscoring opportunity still creates a goalscoring opportunity, even more than a through ball that releases a player on the wing who then passes it inside for a tap-in.

Imagine Evans’s hoof goes straight into the goal, what then? Does the goal not count as a goal? If it does, how has he not broken the rules according to how they’re written?

Your entire argument is that you can’t create a goalscoring chance with an 80 yard hoof, which is blatantly untrue, so your whole logic falls on that argument.

Even if it were true, would you say you can create a goalscoring opportunity from 70 yards? 60? 50? Where would you draw the line for when a goalscoring opportunity could be created?

I’d say the entire pitch is possible since the ball is hoofable for pretty much the entire length of the pitch and a pass from the corner flag could in one shot or pass lead to a goal being scored depending on circumstances.

I suggest you try to interpret the question according to how the laws of the game are written, flawed as they may be, instead of going with your feeling that “it shouldn’t be an offense!” as your only argument.

If the lawmakers don’t want that to be a penalty, they need to specify that in the laws of the game that a penalty cannot be given for such an offense but is penalised with an indirect free kick or something, but as they’re written right now it’s a definite penalty.

 

[giorno]

Your entire argument is that you can’t create a goalscoring chance with an 80 yard hoof, which is blatantly untrue, so your whole logic falls on that argument.

No, my argument is an 80 yard hoof would rarely generate a goalscoring opportunity. If the striker has to run 60 yards, beat a defender and the goalkeeper to the ball and then score, than the hoof hardly created the opportunity. The striker did

It's not impossible but sure it can happen. That would cause a weird situation in which the handball rule negates itself. Hence, i think it would result in a drop ball in midfield

 

[Zlatan 7]

No, my argument is an 80 yard hoof would rarely generate a goalscoring opportunity. If the striker has to run 60 yards, beat a defender and the goalkeeper to the ball and then score, than the hoof hardly created the opportunity. The striker did

It's not impossible but sure it can happen. That would cause a weird situation in which the handball rule negates itself. Hence, i think it would result in a drop ball in midfield

Jesus got the ball and beat 2 or 3 men the other day but the goal was ruled out for handball from the assister.

I think you’re wrong, no matter what the striker does, how far the ball travels, whatever, who ever kicks the ball to the goal scorer is the assister.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Does an 80 yard hoof count as creating a goal-scoring opportunity?

Btw, in case your answer is yes, then the goal comes off and the ref drops the ball in midfield, no fouls

An accurate 80 yard hoof much better fits the definition of creating an opportunity than the ball accidentally brushing off La Porte's arm en route to Jesus the other week.

 

[Anustart89]

No, my argument is an 80 yard hoof would rarely generate a goalscoring opportunity. If the striker has to run 60 yards, beat a defender and the goalkeeper to the ball and then score, than the hoof hardly created the opportunity. The striker did

It's not impossible but sure it can happen. That would cause a weird situation in which the handball rule negates itself. Hence, i think it would result in a drop ball in midfield

How would an 80 yard hoof leave a player with 60 yards to run before scoring?

How big do you think a football pitch is? Maybe that’s where our communication is failing?

 

[RK]

There's a good chance VAR would just ignore the handball anyway, like with the Newcastle goal which has generated a ridiculously low amount of discussion compared to the City disallowed goal.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

There's a good chance VAR would just ignore the handball anyway, like with the Newcastle goal which has generated a ridiculously low amount of discussion compared to the City disallowed goal.

Yeah weird how overlooked that's getting... pretty much confirms they're half making it up as they go along.

 

[Anustart89]

Look at how Aguero did it all by himself!

 

[Zlatan 7]

Look at how Aguero did it all by himself!

Yeah but that’s not an assist for the keeper. He’s kicked it 80 yards ffs

 

[Anustart89]

Yeah but that’s not an assist for the keeper. He’s kicked it 80 yards ffs

I know right!!! Aguero’s so amazing that the ball just fecking pops up at his feet right outside the box!

 

[giorno]

An accurate 80 yard hoof much better fits the definition of creating an opportunity than the ball accidentally brushing off La Porte's arm en route to Jesus the other week.

An accurate 80 yard pass and a hoof are different things though

And Laporte's handball was a textbook case of what the new rule was introduced for

 

[bleedred]

Jesus got the ball and beat 2 or 3 men the other day but the goal was ruled out for handball from the assister.

I think you’re wrong, no matter what the striker does, how far the ball travels, whatever, who ever kicks the ball to the goal scorer is the assister.

Ok. Here’s another scenario. Ball touches laporte’s arm but falls to winks, who miscues it and it goes to Jesus, who scores.

Will that count?

 

[Zlatan 7]

Ok. Here’s another scenario. Ball touches laporte’s arm but falls to winks, who miscues it and it goes to Jesus, who scores.

Will that count?

I don’t know, ha. It probably wouldn’t count though as Laporte is now an attacker and he’s handballed it no matter Who it falls to.

No wonder var is such a mess. No one even knows the rules anymore

 

[giorno]

Ok. Here’s another scenario. Ball touches laporte’s arm but falls to winks, who miscues it and it goes to Jesus, who scores.

Will that count?

Yes. The moment winks makes a deliberate play possession changes and the handball is wiped out. A more pertinent question would be if the ball hits laporte's arm than bounces off winks, than falls to jesus who scores

In that scenario, i've honestly no idea. Would probably come off i guess

 

[bleedred]

VAR: Four decisions fail to be overturned in Premier League this season

The video assistant referee failed to overturn four decisions it should have done during the first four rounds of Premier League matches this season.

During those rounds there were 227 incidents involving goals, red card offences as well as potential and actual penalty decisions.

Of those incidents, six decisions were changed by VAR.

Referees' chief Mike Riley told Premier League clubs on Thursday four more incidents should have been changed.

The four incidents in question are:

• Claims for a penalty from Manchester City for a foul on midfielder David Silva in their 3-1 win at Bournemouth on 25 August
• A foul on West Ham striker Sebastian Halle in their win against Norwich City on 31 August
• Leicester City's Youri Tielemens should have been sent off for his foul on Bournemouth's Callum Wilson on the same day
• Also on 31 August, a handball by Newcastle United's Isaac Hayden was missed in the build-up to Fabian Scharr's equaliser against Watford

Both the Manchester City and West Ham incidents were immediately dismissed by the referee.

Overall, the Premier League are reasonably satisfied at how the new technology is being used and feel they have got six decisions right, when 12 months ago they would have been incorrect.

In addition, a meeting of all 20 clubs in London earlier had a discussion about the merits of moving the transfer window back towards the end of August, in line with most other European countries, but decided more talks were required at their next gathering in November.

Absolute joke. Not a mention of the martial pen or rodri foul. Just giving themselves a pat on the back!!!

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Christ if you tried bullshitting that much in the real world you would be taken to task and fired, I remember at least 4 in one weekend that was scandalous. He’s a smug twat Riley as well.

 

[sullydnl]

Handy guide for reference.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

VAR: Four decisions fail to be overturned in Premier League this season





Absolute joke. Not a mention of the martial pen or rodri foul. Just giving themselves a pat on the back!!!

The arrogance of the Refs association is truly staggering. Only four? feck off.

 

[R'hllor]

Pure clownfiesta, not surprising thoo, they protecting their own interests and arses, they would be fecked if you would introduce setup of unknown people to them in front of monitors. Only four mistakes...sure thing, great work incompetent pricks.

 

[Anustart89]

Handy guide for reference.

Maybe the ref was looking the other way for a photo and that's why the Martial incident was missed?

 

[Offsideagain]

There is nothing wrong with VAR other than the misuse of it by the FA. It works fine in both Rugby codes, Cricket and Tennis. Why wouldn’t you want decisions to be correct?

In Rugby they have the linesmen or assistant Refs running the whole line which may be impractical for Soccer but they spot stuff and also the TV match official is watching various camera angles and highlighting to the Ref if an infringement has taken place. Those that say it slows the game down are talking bollocks. How long is wasted by players surrounding officials and arguing? Throw in take an age. Free kicks take over a minute or more pacing out ten metres and lining up the wall and the opposite will have a player two feet from the ball. Stop that to speed up the game. Done correctly, VAR works. Done the way the PL do it and it is causing too many issues.

 

[awop]

As outrageous as this statement is, at least it's a start, admitting some sort of mistakes gives us hope they will try to improve the way it's being used.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Yep, just doesn't work in Englandia.

 

[Moiraine]

Why that handball of Stones not given ?

Scandalous

 

[sullydnl]

Why that handball of Stones not given ?

Scandalous

Would have been surprised if it was given.

 

[Bobski]

There was an incident in the Liverpool game where the defender had his arms around Matips' neck at a corner, pulled him to ground and VAR did not give it. Would have made Smalling blush.

 

[sullydnl]

There was an incident in the Liverpool game where the defender had his arms around Matips' neck at a corner, pulled him to ground and VAR did not give it. Would have made Smalling blush.

I agree with this:



Stupid that they don't overturn things like this but not surprising given the PL's set up.

 

[Bulldog United]

Is the Premier League setting a higher bar than UEFA and FIFA in terms of overturning decisions? Or globally has the use of VAR been tempered back to really only allow absolute shockers to be overturned on the field? If it's the former, I imagine English clubs will struggle in Europe to adapt to different enforcement rules. i.e. you can get away with wrestling in the Premier League from a corner, but in Europe you will be punished. Same would then apply to international competition. I'm not clear if these guidelines are enforced everywhere now or not.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Perfect use of VAR in the Bayern Leipzeg match yesterday.

Penalty given to Bayern but VAR consulted the referee to relook at his decision and he decided it was too harsh and the challenge wasn't worth a penalty.

Overall it took 1 extra minute for the ref to make his decision after viewing it again. Perfectly reasonable and accurate use of the available technology.

 

[Yagami]

Yeah, I think I'm on the side that hates it. Like 10 mins of this Celta match has been the ref watching the screen to review potential red cards, which were both ultimately given.

The stops just annoy me. Really ruins the flow of the game.

 

[kouroux]

Apologies as I have no links at the moment but I heard on a french football debate show that each time a referee goes to consult the VAR, he loses a point on his grade regarding the game in question. Also once he changes his initial decision after consulting the VAR (because it implies he fecked up in the first place), he loses additional points.
If he loses too many points, the ref is retrograded to lower leagues where his salary could be divide by as much as 2 times.
Make of that what you will but the whole thing is fecking crazy, no wonder referees don't wanna expose themselves, the whole thing is a direct hit to their pockets.

 

[Isotope]

Apologies as I have no links at the moment but I heard on a french football debate show that each time a referee goes to consult the VAR, he loses a point on his grade regarding the game in question. Also once he changes his initial decision after consulting the VAR (because it implies he fecked up in the first place), he loses additional points.
If he loses too many points, the ref is retrograded to lower leagues where his salary could be divide by as much as 2 times.
Make of that what you will but the whole thing is fecking crazy, no wonder referees don't wanna expose themselves, the whole thing is a direct hit to their pockets.

That's a fecked up practice. They should give points for making correct decisions.

 

[montpelier]

dearie me, that's fabulous arse-covering & bullshit from the Officials Union or whatever they are

top work with the propaganda & re-writing history in particular

the not seeing stuff at all was to be expected I suppose

 

[awop]

We need a Football Leak of the Referees Association, there would be insane stuff in it.

 

[montpelier]

I'll throw this in. I'm not saying it's a great argument or anything.

The Liverpool penalty isn't a penalty (imo). But there is a camera angle where it looks like it is. The referee has given it wrong let's say but from where he is, it may look like one too.

Clear & obvious error because one angle says so or one angle says it might be a penalty or do you go with trusting multiple camera angles more than your match official on the pitch (problematic in a lot of ways I would have thought)

 

[Samid]

Yet another disgusting decision.

 

[robinamicrowave]

Now it's just being used to back up incorrect calls by referees. They have no intention of turning those over, so why even look?

 

[kouroux]

Now it's just being used to back up incorrect calls by referees. They have no intention of turning those over, so why even look?

That's the question isn't it ? How much do they wanna extend the notion of "clear and obvious" ? This is all a joke. Better return to the normal if it's implemented like this.

 

[montpelier]

Yeah, priority is to protect the ref it seems like.

 

[Judas]

The priorities are all wrong with how VAR is being used in the PL, it's far too much to do with ego than it is getting the right decision.